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 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 201
Independence VS InterdependancePage 9 of 20    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)

yep sorry still gota do it, the world isnt a safe place and Im a magnet for a wrongun so yeah I need to test.

If you mean test as in asking them upfront questions that may seem a little "much" to the sensitive -- that's not "playing games". If you mean, just as one example, using Trick Questions, them you are playing games. Or saying things you don't mean, luring them into something, then "ha gotcha!" -- again, another game-playing. No, that's not required. Whether it's to maximize one's own chances of getting laid, or to maximize one's own comfort zone about hanging/being with the best fitting person -- it's still Deception & Games looking out for one's own interests. Someone doing that sort of thing should get laughed at when someone else lies to them to get a roll-in-the-hay and disappearing (usually male), or a free dinner and bolting (usually female).

Maybe men are conditioned to think that sex is just sex and is meaningless and should be given to men when they want it

No, men (nor women, obviously) are not conditioned that way.

What if we re-conditioned them to think that sex is so much more.

What, like you? To bang 'em if you're really into them, yet think someone's a player if the roles are reversed? lol

Yes I agree with you but I think it depends on the type of games, the reason for the game, and the level at which you play.

It doesn't matter for the reason if it turns them off. Deception is deception. The type? Yes, that does matter. If they find out you are playing deceptive games -- you better hope they have a huge crush on ya (and not just a crush to 'bang', because that'll wear off after a few shags).

All Im going to say is, I dont find it hard getting dates that doesnt mean I want sex with them all. If I meet a man I want sex with its because Im really into him and I want him and its kind of hard not showing that lol. Damn do you know what, its often the ones who are a little vulnerable and you kind of want to love them.

So you bang them. That's fine, most single adults do at some point. But you call out people who have sex before a Relationship players if they're men, but they're not if they're women? Huh? Yes, we're all human. We'll have too strong of feelings before a Relationship or even Dating (ie a 'crush'). We'll sometimes make out with someone on a 1st date that's during the day, even though that's 'a lot so soon'. We'll have sex with someone on the 1st-3rd date when that's 'too early'. You have a skewed 1-sided point of view on blame -- it's OK if you do it, but not if the other person does it UNLESS they're in it for the long haul.

I have to want to see if it is a relationship

It's not going to be a Relationship until well after the 3rd date. It takes over 3 dates to be datING, even. Do you mean you have to want to see if there's a good chance for it to end up Developing into a Relationship -- or waiting until it IS a Relationship? Big difference. The first is a risk, the second is not a risk. In the first, the guy or girl isn't bad if they lose interest before a Relationship has developed despite having sex. If there is no risk though, and it's the latter -- then you really wouldn't need to focus on any testing -- whether it's harmless of Deceptive games. Because if you don't have sex until you're IN a Relationship, you're not going to be opening your vajayjay up to anyone but someone who's already established himself as a Boyfriend anyway, so none of this would be a non-issue.

You only wait months when your in your teens and a virgin.

I'm not saying waiting months... although one would if you were going to wait until it's a Relationship. But to wait until you're an Item/Exclusive -- that's a matter of weeks, not months. And not too many weeks if you hit it off.

So, no, you dont need to date for months before sex IMO thats for high school.

I agree -- but if you shuck down your pants and bend over for a guy because you have the hots for him, and he's attracted to you too -- you can't say he played you, uses women, took advantage of you, etc. because down the line he ended up losing interest because you two weren't a good match... but while also believing that if YOU lose interest, that's a-okay.

One of the reasons people wait until them spending time together has Already Become Routine and they've been an item, is that they only want to have sex with someone in which something's established and their hormones being their tour guide leads them to their sub-cultural shame, and will feel used if the guy ends up not wanting to get serious with them. But you're trying to have your cake & eat it too!

I think if you are going to engage in sex it should be with the mindset of seeing where this could go, I think you should discuss it if thats not how it works for you but it should be assumed that if your having sex your exclusive and your testing out a relationship with the hope that its going to work.

Well, if it's the first few dates, it's not a Relationship yet to test out. Sure, you can SAY, without deceptive tricks, "Hey, if we have sex, you pinky-swear that we only see each other? Great. Now you can put your pinky down there to show me you mean it! Gawd you're hot!" ;) In all seriousness, sure, you can agree not to see other people. From a feasibility standpoint tho, many people have a lot of options, and that'd be too soon for many to "drop the mic" on all their options & their POF/Match profile(s), even when on a hot 1st or 2nd date with ya. To not sleep with others? That's easily more feasible.

I think if you are going to engage in sex it should be with the mindset of seeing where this could go, I think you should discuss it

Yeah! No game-playing required. I totally understand if you want to have sex, you want to make sure that person is going to take things seriously with you. When two people hit it off, even without taking down their profiles nor giving the lame excuses to all their other prospects that their grandmother died, they'll still take it seriously. If you want them to be Really Convincing and agree to "drop the mic" on all their prospects if it's just within the first couple dates or so -- which would include not generating any more, which would require Not Single / Not Looking on their POF profile at least -- then you're wanting more than them really liking you, and you may run into some issues... and the other person will be more compelled to exaggerate/lie about it (girl or guy), with no ill intention. If one played deceptive games with them beforehand though, they'd deserve that anyway. Lying/exaggerating to look out for oneself with no aimed ill-intentions can be a bad idea, either way.
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 202
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 10:21:39 AM

I love sandwiches, but then I guess its b/c I love condiments. horseradish mustard and roast beef, crisp shredded lettuce and beefsteak tomato, swiss, on a pretzel bun or maybe toasted garlic bread or a bagel. I'm weird, most of my cooking is just throwing together ingredients I'm in a mood to eat.



You MUST try 'Bubbie's beet horseradish'. It's fantastic. I suppose you could just finely grate raw beets into horseradish and mix. I'm not a swiss fan. Yes on the garlic bread. Yum!

re@Ethic foods is an amazing adventure. Just think how many countries there are in the world and then dig into each region. You come across variations of the same unique recipe. I have a link I think will interest you and anyone else reading. It contains pictures of grandmas around the world their favorite recipe. I love this! http://www.demilked.com/delicatessen-with-love-gabriele-galimberti/



as for office politics, I worked w/ too many people who I think considered the workplace a location to work on their childhood issues. I used to say, there's a point where the Dilbert comic strip is no longer funny, but just a confirmation you aren't alone.


These people spend half their daily time in the workplace and the other half outside of it. Naturally they will "bond" and out comes their need to deal with any personal issue.



sometimes, in some places, sex is like having a beer. sometimes its a way to have a good feeling, or to share a good time with a particular person. hopefully, a relationship is more about the level of sex and the time when the sex occurs.


I like sex and I like alcohol therefore I highly approve this above quote



I think South Park lowers IQ




So yes, if he has sex then leaves he is a player. He must of known he wasnt feeling it before the sex so why have the sex. To my recollection it is the men that initiate the sex not women (IME), so why initiate it if your not into her. I would not initiate sex with someone I was not into, in fact I would initiate sex anyway.


If he initiated the sex with you because he thought that maybe the sex would be great and maybe there is potential of a great relationship with you but discovered that he didn't like the sex with you and felt that he can find someone better. To have a better sex life and possibly a better relationship with........................would you call him a player?



What is a player is someone who gives you the impression he wants a relationship and engages in sex when actually he just wanted sex.


How do you know he just wanted the sex????




Men appeared much more respectful towards women and sex was treated with much more respect.


Two people who have sex just for the sake of having sex can and do have tremendous amount of respect for each other.
There is nothing cheap about having sex.


The only thing cheap is when a ho charges too little . :)
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 203
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 11:29:57 AM

If he initiated the sex with you because he thought that maybe the sex would be great and maybe there is potential of a great relationship with you but discovered that he didn't like the sex with you and felt that he can find someone better. To have a better sex life and possibly a better relationship with........................would you call him a player?

.......................................................

No Id call him a liar. If he felt he could get a better relationship with someone else then he shouldnt have sex with me,


That doesn't make sense. It is definitely possible to like some one and as you get to know him/her discover that you weren't as good a match as you thought you were. This can obviously happen after sex, or in some cases because of the sex. It does not make the person a liar.


How would you know that? unless you know all the people who have had sex for sex then you cant say that.


Yet you seem to think it is an"unwritten rule" that women don't "give" sex unless the man "gives" a relationship.

I have had sex outside of being in a relationship. In all cases, I did not want a relationship with THAT particular person, and I never led him to believe I did. I fail to see the disrespect.


So are you really saying that there arent men who just want to have sex? Im not sure how that is having respect? If both of you just want sex how is that having respect for each other? Im sorry I dont understand this. I dont understand why neither think they are worth more than just sex?


My self worth is not attached to my desire or ability to have sex. When I am in a relationship, sex and lovemaking is a big part of my life; when I am between relationships it is significant enough that I miss it and I want to have it. I am not about to let some old fashioned socially constructed gender role shame stop me.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 204
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History
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 11:35:07 AM
Wow...interesting to see where this thread has gone....sex, sandwiches and leagues...LMAO

Always interesting to see "How the Thread Turns"....

I;m traveling in beautiful BC right now....and haven't been around a whole lot this week, but just HAD to jump in here for a few things....

@drink....Your passive/aggressive 'digs' are childish and arrogant and I've had enough, seems like you take EVERY opportunity to act out this crap all over the forums....so cut out the BS and start behaving like an adult....If you would like to continue this discussion because it is CRYSTAL clear that you have an issue with me, then we can do so through pm....
Otherwise your "opinions" are nothing more than a lot of words that don't actually convey much, and you STILL have failed to explain the 'error' of the ways of all of us feminists out there who are 'ruining' the feminist movement. Considering the fact that I highly doubt that you even could describe what the movement is about or what it comprises, and the fact that you have STILL not explained your position with ANY degree of clarity, well, let's just say, am NOT holding my breath...
If reading my posts is SO very disturbing for you then I suggest you skip them and move on, I'm not here to be popular and really couldn't give a flying fvck what you think of me...Hope we're clear now....

As for the issue of "leagues" coming up regarding casual sex, well, NG, all I have to say is that seems to be a subject that is near and dear to YOUR heart...Unfortunately, you are the FIRST man that I've ever met who actually believes that leagues actually play any part in casual sex whatsoever....Or even places that much importance on them in the first place.
You did say some other stuff, am not going to repeat or quote here, but there were some valid points there, and let's leave it at that...

As far as the topic of sex education , well, I think that it should be offered as part of a school curriculum for the simple reason that the information disseminated would most likely be based upon accurate facts and stats regarding things like STD's, contraception and general physiology.
I do however also believe that parents should have the right to NOT have their children participate if they so choose, and when their kid shows up pregnant or with an STD, they can then know that it was their OWN failure to properly educate their children, rather than blame the schools.
I will say that there ARE parents who are also MORE than intelligent and capable enough to educate their own children on sex ed, but those who I personally know have no problem whatsoever with their children gaining additional info from sex ed at school, and encourage their children to talk with them about what they have learned, as they have normally already HAD that conversation with their children prior to their children being of an age to learn about it in school.

As far as sex itself...well, never been a big fan of the "oooh, he slept with me and has now 'dumped me' " school of thought. If you're adult enough to have sex then I have to assume that you're also mature enough to know that as a general rule, hopping into bed with someone before you actually have known them for some time, is most likely NOT going to lead to a 'relationship'.
Unfortunately that is something that many young women try and discover through being hurt and used when they are YOUNG. Believing "the story", as opposed to seeing the reality right in front of them....

As an adult woman, I prefer to have developed intimacy with a person and ideally that will enhance a sexual experience, but to go about it bass ackwards...well, chances are, it's NOT going to work out, although it sometimes does for some people, they are NOT in the majority....
I also will not 'fake' emotional intimacy in order to justify getting my sexual needs met, and ALL humans have sexual needs....Ideally, again, I think men and women in general tend to want the "whole package", including sex, but I won't manufacture any kind of relationship, even if only in my own mind, in order to justify having sex.
I have had several 'flings' that have served to give me a smaller 'dose' of companionship, some intimacy, and sex with people that I knew that it wouldn't work out with in the long run for a variety of reasons....and I have also engaged in a couple of very pleasurable 'interludes' where there WAS no intimacy on an emotional level, just an attraction that translated into a fun time being had by all, as well...
Imo, past the point of awareness of what is in front of us, there is no "using" being done by ANYONE, just people agreeing to allow themselves to BE used.

That's my 25 cents worth.... meh, we all do things differently and have different beliefs...and hopefully we can find those folks who are on the same page as us, and ride off into the sunset....and live complicatedly ever after!!! LOL
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 205
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 11:42:51 AM
Im a little uncomfortable with the emphasis on me here because Im not necessarily saying these are my experiences

Fair enough, you do use alot of "I think", "Maybe" and "Probably" but it tends to come off as a general brush statement based on your experiences.



What other explaination is there?


Sexual incompatibility? Or other red flags he didn't have the heart to tell you about? And most never will because they don't want to deal with the emotional backlash.


unless you know all the people who have had sex for sex then you cant say that


Do you know all the people who have sex in relationships only?...... then you cant say that


So are you really saying that there arent men who just want to have sex?


Not even remotely. Never said that.


Im not sure how that is having respect? If both of you just want sex how is that having respect for each other? Im sorry I dont understand this.


You mean to tell me you can't see two people who want sex just for sex be polite and respectful to each other?
Say please and thank you. Open doors, pull out her chair. Put his arms around her when she's cold. Be there for her when she's down and cheer when up.?? and her for him???
Hey.. I'm attracted to you, you're attracted to me. I want to have sex with you, you want to have sex with me. This is how I feel. How do you feel? Blah blah blah. Practice safe sex.
Deal with the aftermath with full accountability that BOTH made the conscionable decision to have sex.Whether it be continue or end.
Any feelings that develop between the man and women, whether it be from the sexual act or getting to know one another, is separate from the DECISION itself to have sex.


All these teen girls that fall for the boys who separate their legs hoping the boy will fall or thinking he has fallen for them are doing so for the wrong reasons.
And then they grow up thinking men only want sex.
Sex is an intimate act between two people. It can be the greatest expression of love and it can also be the most carnal expression of pleasure. It's a good idea to know exactly what and why you are having sex and owning it.

Vicki, you have sex only when in relationships. Absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. :)
Just be careful if sex is the dangling carrot with the men you meet. You run the risk of hearing them saying only what you want to hear to find out if you are not worth the carrot you dangle.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 206
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History
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 11:53:17 AM

Deal with the aftermath with full accountability that BOTH made the conscionable decision to have sex.Whether it be continue or end.
Any feelings that develop between the man and women, whether it be from the sexual act or getting to know one another, is separate from the DECISION itself to have sex.


Beautifully said Charmin....couldn't agree more....


All these teen girls that fall for the boys who separate their legs hoping the boy will fall or thinking he has fallen for them are doing so for the wrong reasons.
And then they grow up thinking men only want sex.


Disagree on this...for me, maturity brings the wisdom to begin taking responsibility for your OWN choices, hopefully....although I know there ARE many women who may never quite get there....


Sex is an intimate act between two people. It can be the greatest expression of love and it can also be the most carnal expression of pleasure. It's a good idea to know exactly what and why you are having sex and owning it.


Even IN a relationship, I can remember having sex because we were bored, or just because we COULD....There doesn't always have to be a deeper expression of feeling of any kind....Sometimes it's just a shared activity....
I think I would go MAD if the ONLY type of sex that I have with my partner is the deep, meaningful, intense kind.....
Can be TOO intense for me at times, and exhausting to maintain that level of emotional intensity, every single time....

But again... to each their own.....
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 207
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 12:08:09 PM

maturity brings the wisdom to begin taking responsibility for your OWN choices,



This I do agree with which is why I advocate abstinence with the full knowledge that what I advocate may not be followed lol.
So, that said I also advocate waiting until you are of full confidence that the time is right to have sex and you have full knowledge of how to practice safe sex, of stds and how to communicate.

Communication is a big one. I've told each one of my boys that if they can't openly talk about sex, whether its just sex or they like/love other, about their feelings and about safe sex with the girl they are with without being all shy and giggly .. its NOT the right time for them to have sex .

So far, that nugget of advice has worked. Thank god ! ..... still, one more kid to go lol.





But again... to each their own.....


Yuuuuuuup :)
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 208
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 12:14:13 PM

Even IN a relationship, I can remember having sex because we were bored, or just because we COULD....There doesn't always have to be a deeper expression of feeling of any kind....Sometimes it's just a shared activity....
I think I would go MAD if the ONLY type of sex that I have with my partner is the deep, meaningful, intense kind.....
Can be TOO intense for me at times, and exhausting to maintain that level of emotional intensity, every single time....


So true. I was seeing a man for about 5 months. The relationship was good, but not awesome, and we were at that stage when I guess we were really getting to know each other and thinking about where it might be going , or not going. We went to a remote cabin for a long weekend, and while we were there, we pretty much had sex non-stop. Upon reflection, I believe it was because we didn't have that much in common. I don't really love fishing that much....and for the life of me I could hardly think of anything I wanted to talk about with him. I brought a book, but since he wasn't much of a reader, it seemed rude to take it out and start reading...LOL

Despite the good sex, we broke up not long afterwards.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 209
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 12:22:57 PM

Im not really sure why this shame thing keeps coming up. If you feel shamed that is you, that is not someone shaming you.


I am NOT ashamed. You were the one who brought up shame as a deterrent to casual sex. You are the one who has this very prescribed, old fashioned notion that women only ever want to have sex in exchange for a relationship. If that's how you feel, great. I don't judge what you do, I just think it isn't fair for you to judge what others do as disrespectful or cheap.
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 210
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 12:22:59 PM
lol@ newoldgirl

That brings up a memory of this fella. He would open his mouth to talk and all heard was white noise. I thought to myself "you know hunny, just do what you do best, sit and look pretty".
It was then I realized how some men thought of some women. An 'eureka' light went off in my head. I was 33. Life changing :)

and...


he really was pretty.Tee hee :P
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 211
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Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 12:48:22 PM
@Vicki...thanks and as for the thread...well, the thread goes, where the thread will go...LOL No worries...it's all good.

As far as your opinion on casual sex being disrespectful for both genders....well, you ARE entitled to that opinion. I DO have to say that for me I HAVE had it and that there WAS a whole HEAP of respect there, for the simple reason that we were both honest about what we wanted and were able to communicate that to each other with clarity and sensitivity....

NOT quite the same as monkeys in the jungle...lol Although as 'casual' as sex between Bonobos for example may APPEAR, scientists have discovered that it is something that is used in order to cement social bonds between members of the troop...Kind of interesting in light of this discussion, no?

See, I can't understand how you can NOT have sexual feelings/needs when NOT in a relationship. I also can't imagine going YEARS without sex when I have not been in the position to have any kind of real relationship, either....

And while masturbation may do the 'trick' technically, sometimes it's IS nice to have that contact and specifically that male contact, in that specific way, because it IS basic human need, as we are pretty social creatures, too...

In fact, some people believe that the root cause of the 'depression epidemic' that seems to be sweeping the Western world, is at it's root, simple loneliness and a feeling of being disconnected from our fellow human beings.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 212
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History
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 12:52:21 PM
Well, since this thread is still going, in response to the op I'd really just repeat what I've already said, here -

msg 97
4/19/2015
6 : 07 : 19 AM

----

Southpark? Hey, southpark is funny. Not everyone's cup of tea, and definitely pushing the envelope. But funny. So there...hehe.

----

Dee4166

@drink....Your passive/aggressive 'digs' are childish and arrogant and I've had enough, seems like you take EVERY opportunity to act out this crap all over the forums....so cut out the BS and start behaving like an adult....If you would like to continue this discussion because it is CRYSTAL clear that you have an issue with me, then we can do so through pm....
Otherwise your "opinions" are nothing more than a lot of words that don't actually convey much, and you STILL have failed to explain the 'error' of the ways of all of us feminists out there who are 'ruining' the feminist movement. Considering the fact that I highly doubt that you even could describe what the movement is about or what it comprises, and the fact that you have STILL not explained your position with ANY degree of clarity, well, let's just say, am NOT holding my breath...
If reading my posts is SO very disturbing for you then I suggest you skip them and move on, I'm not here to be popular and really couldn't give a flying fvck what you think of me...Hope we're clear now....

What are you talking about? Is that stuff always necessary?

I keep wondering if you can just have a normal conversation, without acting like there's some drama somewhere, or using all of those victim-catch-phrases like in your above quoted post to lash out and act like something dramatic or threatening is happening. Read my last post, and just respond to it like a normal person without thinking there's some passive aggressive dig in it. And without being so hostile. Can you do that?

And if you continue to whine that I haven't wrote a darn thesis on feminism, you just still need to fess-up to how you acted last time, when you did the same thing that you're doing now. It's still about stepping up and fessing up. That won't magically go away just because you won't do it.

You heard what I told you last time woman. If you can't stop acting out and being hateful, pretending like you're just defending yourself, and you insist on me talking to you this way...then just get back in the damned kitchen and make me a sammich.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 213
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 1:01:59 PM

In fact, some people believe that the root cause of the 'depression epidemic' that seems to be sweeping the Western world, is at it's root, simple loneliness and a feeling of being disconnected from our fellow human beings.

...or could it be too MANY successive one night stands, casual sex, FWB that's causing the depression and people believing that simple sex will fix that disconnected feeling, rather than actually having a very connected feeling before sex even enters the picture? I'm not judging one way or the other - sexual contact may be considered a basic human need by many, but what takes us outside of the animal kingdom, I think, is that sex isn't necessarily the "need" but a deeper connection on a different level than casual sex can provide with an individual is the "actual" need. I dunno...I've always had a problem with the use of the words "sex is a need". I've always found the deeper connection outside of sex brings about the desire for the great sex and THEN feeling like you need it because of that connection, not the other way around.

It goes back to those studies of orphanages where the infants and toddlers are kept in conditions without human contact - their need for food and the other basics to keep them alive is there and they are "just" alive. It's the lack of interaction and contact in a meaningful way that is causing their emotional and psychological problems. The contact isn't sexual. That sex is an added layer to the contact as an adult is just that...another layer but not the actual need.
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 214
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 1:20:29 PM

could it be too MANY successive one night stands, casual sex, FWB that's causing the depression and people believing that simple sex will fix that disconnected feeling



If someone is experiencing depression after too many successive ONS, FWB, etc, they need to look at why they are having this type of sex.
It's like you said, believe that simple sex will fix the feeling. They need to look at why they believe this.




you insist on me talking to you this way...then just get back in the damned kitchen and make me a sammich.



Only if you take out the damned garbage and mow the lawn Drinks.
Oh, and check the oil while you're at it . :P
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 215
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Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 1:23:03 PM
^ Yes ma'am.

My lawn always looks awesome. Hope you like it : )
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 216
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Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 1:31:31 PM
@drink....yeah about what I expected from you, thanks for confirming what you're all about, yet again....Hmmm, accusation, obfuscation, invalidation, misdirection and mind-fvcking....Got it!!!

I have NOTHING to "fess up" to, I called you on your BS last time and here we are again, and yet again, you are just blowing smoke up my arse....
As far as a normal conversation, well, thing is that is REALLY funny coming from you...considering how verbally abusive that you were totally unnecessarily during the initial "incident" and I have NO need to be "dramatic" or anything else....It IS what it is, as they say...

I'm thinking this is a case of simple projection on your part, as in you are accusing ME of doing what you, yourself are doing....What exactly am I supposed to "fess up" to???Calling someone out because they made an arrogant and unjustified statement about a subject they know NOTHING about??? Or would that be the response after you came out with an incredible amount of verbal abuse based on NOTHING????
I mean, REALLY??? So are you going to really try and tell me that previous post as well as several others WEREN'T passive/aggressive digs???? Because if you do, then you and I both know who the 'liar' is, here, now don't we? Or, maybe you really are that delusional....Any way....it's clear that you have no interest in an actual discussion, won't even admit to your OWN behaviour and will obviously continue to act out in your own, special, passive/aggressive way, right here, for ALL to see, because you seem to get some kind of 'kick' out of it...

Pffft...you're really not worth anymore of my time.....oh and btw, make your own fvcking 'sammich', troglodyte....

@Chameleon....well, as I said to Vicki, I do believe that sex is a need for most adults, and NOT just an expression of a deeper feeling, although ideally it should be for a 'real' connection. I do agree with you that many people ARE out there looking to fit the proverbial round peg in the square hole so to speak, lol, and trying to get SOME kind of connection going from something that usually will NOT provide that connection ....And yes, that is also probably a part of that depression epidemic as well....Let's face it, the world can be a complicated place today, and forming lasting relationships, can be challenging to say the least...Wish I had all of the answers, but am too busy still asking questions, myself.....Hopefully that will never stop, and also, I reserve the right to change my mind about anything, depending on any new info that I come across. ;-)
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 217
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 1:57:11 PM

See, I can't understand how you can NOT have sexual feelings/needs when NOT in a relationship. I also can't imagine going YEARS without sex when I have not been in the position to have any kind of real relationship, either...


Same.


I think both men and women are worth more and should believe they are worth more.


Duly noted, for the umpteenth time.

MY self worth is not determined by my sex life.


That is not a personal attack on anyone that is my opinion. If you all want to feel shamed by that that is your choice and your own doing


LMAO. Whatever you say, Vicki. I am just eaten up with shame because I had sex without a man professing his undying commitment to me.


emotional outburst isnt needed thank you.


? I don't even know what this means.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 218
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 2:19:33 PM
On topic...ummm, what was the topic again?

Oh, I remember! Having a relationship where peeps come to rely on each other, and get all intertwined and such?

Hmm...that does sound nice, actually :)
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 219
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 2:22:58 PM
How would you know that? unless you know all the people who have had sex for sex then you cant say that. So are you really saying that there arent men who just want to have sex? Im not sure how that is having respect? If both of you just want sex how is that having respect for each other? Im sorry I dont understand this. I dont understand why neither think they are worth more than just sex?
-------------------------------------
If you really think your self respect and the respect of others is tied to sex, then you are the one who thinks that your biggest asset is sex and you are making that to everyone else. Don't blame people who reflect your own opinion of your worth for agreeing. You may want to think of it some other way, but the fact is that the value you place on anything is determined by how much you value it relative to everything else you have. If your concept of respect is so heavily tied to sex, then all you are saying is that you can't gain respect any way but holding on to the most valuable currency you have, sex.

I'm not sure what else could make you think that by having casual sex, respect goes out the window.
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 220
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 2:23:26 PM


And yes, I do find NSA, FB, ONS to be disrespectful to both genders. I think both men and women are worth more and should believe they are worth more. There are of course times when they happen, when they might actually be the best choice but that is all they should be IMO. That is not a personal attack on anyone that is my opinion. If you all want to feel shamed by that that is your choice and your own doing.


of course you don't mean any personal attack telling someone they should "feel shamed' by their choices, lol . .

there is of course those of us that believe that relationship contingent self esteem (sexual approval motives) is linked to lower levels of self esteem and well being
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 221
view profile
History
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 2:44:34 PM

Thank you for that. But what you and Charm are saying that you have had is not what I am seeing and Im seeing it in a lot of places. Again, you could say its just my experience blah blah blah but I think I can tell when Im out of step and I dont think I am here. When I first went OLD I was blasted out with msgs for sex, I wasnt the only one its why POF had to have a clean up. I had my profile set up by a different website connected to pof that was literally just NSA, ONS and FB. I received an email to say that I had someone contact me and click here, which I did and it took me to a different website. Again I was blasted out for NSA, ONS and FB, the whole site was like it. Then there is the lap dancing clubs that everyone now goes to as part of going out of an evening. Internet porn is another thing. Its just feeling seedy and disrespectful in a lot of ways.


I acknowledge that there are a LOT of folks who aren't able to navigate the waters of casual sex, no question....But for me that has to do with the individuals involved and their abilities to be honest, not only with the other person, but with themselves, more importantly....
Again, for me, I see this as a maturity issue, in that either the person doesn't know themselves well, or have sufficient insight into their own motives, or else they are hoping that the bird that's walking and quacking, is NOT really, a duck....
Also, I have to say, that I really don't think that casual sex between two consenting adults can be accurately compared with pervs on the internet, or lap dances, or porn....
It's just two people filling a need that they have for not only sex, but a physical connection with another human being for a time.
Also, I didn't say that it is the ideal.....But, there are times in my own Life, where I had nothing to offer a partner but a whole sh!tload of misery, were they to get involved with me, and frankly I personally believe that going into a relationship like that, is NOT fair, either to them or myself....
But, for me, sex and that feeling of physical connection was the best I could do towards meeting any needs at all, so that's what I did....
I don't regret it, or feel that it was seedy or disrespectful at all, and as I said before, we were both able to maintain a level of honesty and respect that ensured that it was good for both of us....

As far as the depression epidemic, that is just common knowledge at this point, as in there are an incredible amount of people who are suffering or being treated for, depression....You can google it if you're interested, there is HEAPS of info out there on the subject.


I think it could be contributing to it. To me, if people are engaging in this as there main way of obtaining sex/intimacy I would think they have a low sense of self worth.



Again, I don't believe that is the "ideal" for anybody, do you? I mean who says as a child, "I want to grow up and never have a meaningful relationship with ANYONE, and will ONLY engage in casual sex?"

Lets face it, Life happens....

Sometimes we don't get to choose what happens to us and that can make us not exactly the most "fit" partner for anyone for a time....
So what to do? Deprive ourselves of all physical/sexual contact with people, because we aren't in a position to offer more than a casual encounter/fling?

As I said, for me that is not a choice that I'm willing to make....

Kind of seems like I'm starving but I'm going to refuse to eat a bag of chips, because it isn't a filet mignon....
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 222
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History
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 4:07:29 PM
Agreed Vicki.....and no, I don't think that I, personally am putting out there that it is such a 'great thing', but it also doesn't have to be done in such a way as to diminish the people involved.....

Do I want to have that partner that I can talk about stuff with for hours, who wants to have adventures together and walk through this Life hand in hand, being a supportive and loving friend and lover who has my back as I do theirs???

Of COURSE!!!!

But I also have to be realistic and deal with my own personal needs and fulfilling them in an honest and most respectful way possible.... Because for me, that IS part of being an adult living in the world that is 'mine' , today....

It can be difficult to understand for some, I get that, as my own sister has a similar viewpoint as yourself, and we have agreed to disagree on the subject, simply because she cant wrap her head around the fact that it IS possible to do and to walk away with BOTH people feeling clear, and satisfied and having good feelings about the experience and the other person....

We're all different, as I mentioned....and that's ok, but in the case of two, (or more, hey! if that's your bag!lol), consenting adults who are helping each other by sharing some time and pleasure together, doing NOBODY else any harm....I think it's really not anyone else's place to judge or otherwise denigrate that choice....
Not that I'm saying that you're doing that, just to be clear! lol

Really, amongst many of the damaging behaviours that I have personally helped people to deal with over the years, THAT is one, that imo, causes a LOT of angst, for no good reason, just because it is still something that has a lot of conflict and differing opinions surrounding it....socially speaking.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 223
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 4:45:55 PM

Kind of seems like I'm starving but I'm going to refuse to eat a bag of chips, because it isn't a filet mignon....


LOL...but chips are so delicious, when you don't have the time or the appetite for filet mignon. Plus, they come in so many different varieties...rippled or not, baked or friend, corn chips or potato chips...BBQ, salt and vinegar, dill pickle. Hell, you can even get imported chips! I had some delicious Walker's cheese and onion the other day. Mmmmm ...good.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 224
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History
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 5:28:10 PM
^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah thanks there new....NOW I want chips!!! LOL
 purplerider1200
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 225
view profile
History
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 5/14/2015 8:43:39 PM
Sitting back reading this. I believe that just about every side has been approached, with point and counterpoint. Yes, you women do make it hard for us guys. I knew since day one, that since I started late in the dating scene, I would never be successful. Rather than run after the unattainable goal, it was better to educate myself to be independant, and self reliant. If anything, my first assumption of women in general, is that they can be cold and uncaring. Very few have come along to dispel the myth with me. Plenty think men are after sex as an end goal in a relationship. If you thought that about me, then congratulations, you're wrong. My end game was always to have a girlfriend. The sex partners I had in life, asked, or instigated it. It's your body, you have the right to say what you want to do with it. I think its rude for me to ask, so I won't. I have to be invited.

Most of you want to test my intentions. First red flag that I see flying, Bye, have a nice life. Excuse me for intruding on your personal space. Want to be treated as an equal? Come see me. I learned to treat women as equals from the best-my mother. I respect you like I respected my mom. Its only right that I do.

Was that simple enough? Or do I have to explain anything?
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