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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!      Home login  
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 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 51
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astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!Page 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)

I already find the labs to be boring

I think you answered the question of whether you should set up a lab in your garage.

I've been preparing for physical chemistry 1 & 2

Not sure what's in your course, but for me the quantum mechanics was the main challenge as I didn't do much physics. I remember 'particle in a box' calculations and some other wavefunction stuff being painful. Other things like thermodynamics were straightforward enough.

Are you anti-'anti-depressants', or anti-medication of anything specifically? I would assume you would be

No, I'm not anti-medication where it is needed, used appropriately and the risk and severity of possible side-effects is outweighed by the probability of improved quality of life. I understand in the US there may be additional ethical issues such as direct marketing of medications to the public which aren't a factor on my island home.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 52
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/1/2016 6:31:37 PM

I think you answered the question of whether you should set up a lab in your garage.


That depends. I could just do it for decoration. Perhaps to spark conversation when people go in my garage... for some reason.


Not sure what's in your course, but for me the quantum mechanics was the main challenge as I didn't do much physics. I remember 'particle in a box' calculations and some other wavefunction stuff being painful. Other things like thermodynamics were straightforward enough.


the main problem I see is that students are not prepared for the math theory behind it, so they have a painful experience in the class
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 53
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/2/2016 4:54:20 PM

My walls are conscious. They won't shut up. They keep emitting that darned vibrational energy. Messing with my frequency man


“My brain is only a receiver, in the Universe there is a core from which we obtain knowledge, strength and inspiration. I have not penetrated into the secrets of this core, but I know that it exists.”
― Nikola Tesla
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 54
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/2/2016 7:04:31 PM
^


“My brain is only a receiver, in the Universe there is a core from which we obtain knowledge, strength and inspiration. I have not penetrated into the secrets of this core, but I know that it exists.”


You know when a great thinker has reached his nadir when statements like this are made!
Tesla was not the only one:

Roger Penrose describes mathematical inspirations as a sudden "break through" into a Platonic realm

Here is what the Late-great, Fred "big-bang" Hoyle said:

In the late 60's; Hoyle was working on a cosmological theory of electromagnetism that involved some highly intricate math. In the midst of struggling on a complicated integral; he decided to go for a vacation to meet some friends hiking the Scottish highlands.

Hoyle's excerpt:
"as the miles slipped by, I turned the quantum mechanical problem over in my mind in the hazy way that I normally have in thinking math in my head. Normally I have to write things down, then fiddle with the equations and integrals the best I can. But somewhere on the road over Bowes Moor, my awareness of the math clarified not by a little or even by a lot but as if a HUGE brilliant light had suddenly been switched on! How long did it take me to become totally convinced that the problem was SOLVED??? The answer was: Less than 5 seconds!!!"

Hoyle came to believe that the foundation of the Universe is in itself a "super-intelligence" (for lack of a better word), that can be accessed quantistically. Thus Hoyle firmly believed that acting at the quantum level, this "super-intelligence" (which I believe is the seat or source of consciousness) can implant 'truths' directly into the human mind of those that can tap into it.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 55
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/2/2016 7:37:17 PM

You know when a great thinker has reached his nadir when statements like this are made!


I'm not even going to argue. All I'm going to say is this:

How intelligent do you believe you are?

The most intelligent people are those that know they don't know. The others are full of ignorance. Some people forget they need to step outside of the limits of the intellect.

To you it is nonsensical because you have never experienced what they have,

I have a few times in my life, it is extraordinary, I've realized there is an intelligence beyond my imagination, some people unfortunately never get to experience this, too bad, maybe next life.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 56
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/2/2016 7:54:37 PM
^


The most intelligent people are those that know they don't know. The others are full of ignorance.


Umm...that ^ was kinda my whole point if you were able to get the 'gist'.....
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 57
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/2/2016 8:13:28 PM

Umm...that ^ was kinda my whole point if you were able to get the 'gist'.....


lol sorry, I didn't get it. but it is similar to trying to explain color to a blind person. Some of the most brilliant people seem to say the most absurd things to the average person
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 58
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astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/5/2016 3:33:28 AM

Forgetting the money-factor for a moment, could the Hubble eyeglass operation have been performed remotely, without a human on-site and in-person?

Coming soon to a(n operating) theatre near you. http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/8/337/337ra64.full
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 59
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/5/2016 9:47:45 PM
if only we could possess such spectacles in the future, where we would have basically a Hubble space telescope plus a electron microscope built within our eyes. Superman sight... but of course eventually it would just be everyday ordinary experience once we are born with these eyes, where as if I had a pair, I'd probably stare into space for the rest of my life...
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/6/2016 9:20:49 AM
Forget seeing way out or the very small, what about seeing in other, or all, spectrums. That might blow your mind a bit more.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 61
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/6/2016 11:33:37 AM
considering how small the portion of the electromagnetic spectrum we see, if we were to see the whole spectrum, it would probably overwhelm us as too much information to take in.

It would probably be like someone pointing bright lights at the eyes. It could be soo overwhelming, that it could flood over the rest of the spectrum, blurring out everything out, making you unable to see the rest of the spectrum.

Sorta like what the sun does in the daylight to the night stars.

Unless of course we had some biological mechanisms that allowed us to cut out certain areas of the spectrum.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 62
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astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/11/2016 5:08:05 AM
mmm... exoplanets...

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-36256725
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 63
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/11/2016 7:51:45 PM
how important is astronomy to society? is what happens out there important here? shouldn't we be focusing more on biological / environmental sciences?

the only astronomy we should be doing is figuring out a way to get humans to live on the other planets in our solar system
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 64
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astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/12/2016 2:13:07 AM
Whether you are playing devil's advocate or not, it is an important question to address. It is too easy to point to the trillions spent on our military than actually take the time to think about our priorities within science and space.

how important is astronomy to society? is what happens out there important here?

In the past it was a matter of life and death to know when to plant crops, and how to navigate the oceans.
The immediate importance is for prevention of potentially catastrophic impacts, coping better with solar weather that is an increasing threat to vital infrastructure, and resource recovery.
The future importance is to improve the survival chances of all the life in the universe that we currently know of by spreading risk from a single system to many, and to expand our horizon literally as well as possibly expanding it figuratively with the biggest impact on society conceivable. If you think contacting civilizations in 'The New World' created an explosion of commerce, culture and science, watch what happens if we contact civilizations on New Worlds!

shouldn't we be focusing more on biological / environmental sciences?

The study of the environment beyond our sphere has been enhancing our understanding of the local environment since science was invented. The study of a single instance of alien life will free biology from the incredibly limiting shackles of trying to understand the nature, origin and possibilities of life with only a single instance of it from which to draw conclusions. The deepest and most profound science seeks to understand the natural laws underlying the field. As an analogy for biology, we are trying to understand 'forestry' but we are stranded on a desert island with only a single tree to look at. If only we could travel to other islands with other trees... how our understanding of forestry would flourish!

the only astronomy we should be doing is figuring out a way to get humans to live on the other planets in our solar system

I think you have your priorities the wrong way around in terms of forward planning for society as a whole. Private development of the solar system is already underway and will continue with or without us saying what society should or shouldn't be doing. For society, long-term survival and interstellar exploration should clearly be the focus, with development of bodies in the solar system as a stepping stone towards the acheivements that catapault the whole of society forwards.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 65
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astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/12/2016 2:47:18 AM
Don't underestimate the power of the dark side...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmP4Xzt0rN4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6ugFcwsgpE
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 66
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/12/2016 12:39:25 PM
Astronomy is perhaps the best thing to think about before falling asleep. It could provoke visually powerful images that the ordinary imagination doesn't see. It is almost like you are there, like a dream, but you didn't fall asleep yet.

don't count sheep, count stars
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/13/2016 6:31:37 PM

shouldn't we be focusing more on biological / environmental sciences?

the only astronomy we should be doing is figuring out a way to get humans to live on the other planets in our solar system

This is a bit contradictory anyway. You want to figure out how to get humans to live on other planets, but also say that we should be focusing more on biological and environmental science.

Astronomy as a whole teaches us much to this end, and many other ends. If you want to get on other planets in our solar system, and forget about looking at anything else in the sky...first, question your premise that the planets in our system are an option and that we can't learn anything about them or anything else by looking at other stuff in the sky...that it's astronomy as a whole which teaches us what we'd need to know about our planets or anything else.

I think that you're suggesting that we focus on particular areas, not disregarding space in general...but this still smacks of that general attitude that rhetorically asks "what good is learning about something? (when it has no application or need)" - There's always someone who wants to know what concrete benefit or pay-back has come from some area of pure research, and the fact that they want to know that in the first place suggests a certain level of ignorance which involves not realizing that ALL of our progress...ALL good things...ALWAYS involves some pure research. We ALWAYS figure out how to utilize some new knowledge or understanding in good ways, but only after we obtain that knowledge...we have to get the new knowledge in the first place, and that is very often BY IT'S NATURE going to be without a singular specific real-world application or goal in mind. Seeking new knowledge for it's own sake without knowing 'what good it's going to do us' is not unusual nor is it up for debate very frequently...it is the norm. It is intrinsic in the effort.

I recently learned of an interesting little factoid - The bailout of the banks exceeded the 50 year budget of NASA.
 Lonely4You2_FE
Joined: 5/13/2016
Msg: 68
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/24/2016 7:42:28 PM
How many astronauts have ever been to space??
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 5/30/2016 10:01:43 AM
^ A quick simple google gave me this:

Of the 536, three people completed only a sub-orbital flight, 533 people reached Earth orbit, 24 traveled beyond low Earth orbit and 12 walked on the Moon. Space travelers have spent over 29,000 person-days (or a cumulative total of over 77 years) in space including over 100 person-days of spacewalks.
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 11/11/2016 6:41:03 PM
This is interesting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakthrough_Starshot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsARBnvUB2E
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 71
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astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 11/12/2016 6:23:47 AM
Yes, still interesting.

Unfortunately at the rate exoplanet telescopy is progressing it may not be so interesting in 50 years when we actually get some data back. We're already directly imaging exoplanets and protoplanetary disks. Scopes like JWST and E-ELT will be analysing their atmospheric compositions soon. That's before these sails even start to fly. I doubt the next generation of scopes after these new ones will make some low-res flybys totally obsolete, but it will probably not be as educational as it may seem right now.

Of course if they could shrink a Voyager or New Horizons type of detection capability down to this size then that would be a different story, especially if one or more of the craft happen to pass close to a planetary body. Otherwise I think the primary function will be to validate our remote sensing techniques before spending the bigger bucks on terraforming and eventual colonization programs. A few pretty pictures would probably be needed to secure public support for such programs... assuming we don't evolve much between now and then.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 72
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astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 1/19/2017 1:46:31 AM
Wear vacuum pants (Leg Suckers TM) for part of the day and your eyes will be fine. Strike one long-term microgravity health problem.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/01/170117135719.htm
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 1/24/2017 3:09:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvc4UtKFwGo
astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 2/11/2017 8:07:21 PM
But how 'bout Venus?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ5KV3rzuag
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 75
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astronauts will get dumber on their way to Mars!
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:08:37 AM
Within a hundred years small research ships and a maybe a handful of pleasure cruises for the ultra-rich is the most that could be expected for a venusian presence. Robotic mining on the surface won't be cost effective at all.

Within a thousand years the thick CO2 atmosphere will be the most accessible and useful resource for us to transport in bulk to other bodies in the solar system for terraforming them. Although if we master fusion on global scales by this time we can make the elements we want for the outer solar system from the gas giant atmospheres instead of transporting material all the way from venus. Titan is more conveniently located for ongoing gas extraction for the outer solar system. Cloud cities on venus may be possible but unlikely. The primary reason to do it would be because we physically need more space to fit all the humans, and things like underwater earth cities, NEO space cities and colonising the moon are more practical for that purpose than cloud cities on venus.

Within ten thousand years terraforming Venus may be possible but such a huge undertaking that it may never be economical compared to more hospitable interstellar alternatives (Earth 2.0 - Just add embryos!). The surface gravity is great, proximity to earth is convenient and the distance to the sun could be worse. But even after the gas is taken away and it is cooled down, a day that lasts 116.75 earth days and having no magnetosphere both increase the running costs of the colony substantially to shield from radiation. Not to mention the lack of water or nearby reservoir of light elements for fusing. When we have the tech to seriously consider it we'll probably have the tech to realise better value elsewhere.

To me, Venus, Mercury and Io are the bodies in the solar system that are least likely to ever be permanently colonised by humans. Planet 9 might be bloody cold and dark but at least it will have the icy resources we need for survival, and it will be a convenient last outpost en route to the stars.
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