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 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 51
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Police Officers across the county should hold protests…Page 3 of 21    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)
^^ Most of what you said isn't actually true and much comes from media bias possibly. SOME of it is true based on how it should be but you would find the reality on the ground to be much different.

I also don't argue with people who don't do the research to back their arguments. Being retired NYPD it would be unfair because I would be going by experience and what I know is common knowledge while you would mostly be going by what you read..often by ignorant journalists who are trying to sell papers. EXPERIENCE trumps second and third hand bias info EVERY time. Please don't tell me about police stuff and I won't try to pretend to know about film-making(although I probably know more about that subject than you do about LE ;))

But a few points:
1. You are right that the NYPD legally isn't suppose to cross the state lines. BUT reality is they have been doing it since 9/11 and none of the complaints go anywhere. We have spy rings and conduct interviews with sources outside of our area . And now we have arrangements with NJ and I think CT.

2. We have officers assigned overseas in actual offices in about a dozen countries(11) and send officers to investigate every terrorist incident around the world. Sometimes when they show up they piss off the CIA and even the local gov't but they still do it. Justice dept and president doesn't like it but NYC dos it anyway. They have no way to stop us. So where is that listening we are doing? I am shaking in my boots now!

3. FBI doesn't tell NYC what to do in their own city. FALSE. We have a joint task force to help smooth things out but for decades there have been arguments and we even had turf wars at time. Many NYers blame the FEDS for Sept 11..and there have been documentaries supporting the FBI error-ed partly because of their decades old grudge and turf war with the NYPD(i link an article below). If they could tell us what to do, as you say, and expect us to comply than I wouldn't see why the FBI would have such a grudge and bone to pick with the NYPD that they constantly get into petty wars with us (and possibly ignored sept 11 threats).

4. FBI obviously handles terrorism in the country, but their efforts in NYC is small compared to NYPD(weird considering we are ground zero :(). That doesn't mean FBI are GOOD at it. I know a 3 officers, including one who is an MTA cop (who worked at Atlantic ave terminal standing alongside NYPD transit cops who did stop terrorist plots here(they wrote a book about the MTA cop).

Many here blame the FEDS for Sept 11 and our operations protecting the city are more advance then they do. It comes down to resources. The FBI has about 1200 agents in NYC. We have over 1000 officers assigned to counter-terrorism with the support of over 30k other officers. We have the more diversified language speakers and because we aren't the FBI/CIA we don't have ALL the Federal limitations they have. One of the problems that was only recently corrected was that you had to be American born to be FBI. Kind of hard to do undercover work when they don't have REAL native speakers. As I said, we have po's that are born in those countries and know lingo a FED wouldn't.

Go read some articles , you will see that even the FBI says we can do things that THEY CAN'T DO. We also have the same intelligence vault that they have. Only dept in the country that has one.

Our officers overseas are often criticized by the local gov't when they show up Uninvited but the actual offices we have in certain countries get more cooperation than the Fed s get overseas. Israel is an example..NYC has a better relationship with them than the FBI has due to NYC's historic Jewish population and the fact that we have many dual citizenship officers. Unrelated, I was sent on the UN police mission to Kosovo-Bosnia in the late 90's mostly due to my Russian language ability. Our officers fill the bulk of those assignments(some Chicago pd were there) simply because the UN is in NYC and they have direct relations with the local gov't here. All this translate into better cooperation.

5. Your point about SWAT is silly. ESU (NYC version of swat) is a specialized unit. We have over 100 specialized units. FBI also has there own swat team and specialized units. The majority of their agents are just plain john guys who went though 20 weeks of academy and never move up. Same thing in any big police dept. Majority of NYPD cops are just officers who spent 26 weeks in the academy(it use to be 34 weeks).

Plenty of fat guys but that is because most big city dept's can't enforce standards after probation. It is a union issue more than a cop issue.
But even you use the word SOME..so why would you generalize about cops when you admit it is only SOME. Confusing! I assure you there is a higher % of fit cops than the general population.

But they shoot ARMED people(are suspected at being armed) because that is the safest way to deal with an armed perp. Chasing a person with a gun isn't smart in any dept. In the end the person will use the gun. He can turn and use it on the cop. He can take a hostage. The outcome isn't going to end well most of the time. Even escaping to fight another day isn't acceptable.

FBI , ATF, Russian police , Israeli police, etc, etc generally all will shoot 1st because that is the tactically practical way to handle such a thing. It is almost international. I could be the FLASH and I would still shoot an armed perp. I think Crookcatcher would do the same. If you value the life of armed thugs(or those acting like they can be armed) over that of cops, or innocent children, or old ladies , or whatever..then that speaks more volumes about you and your values than that of those overweight cops who have to eat donuts because they work at hours where there are no healthy food choices open and they work too much to hit the gym. VOLUMES!




6. Yes many do work in security after retirement. Why not? Many retired Feds (FBI,etc) also work alongside them in the same security jobs after retirement. Not everyone has an interest or qualifications to lecture or go do 3d animations ;)

Security jobs for LEO are sweet. They get flexible hours and the rate of pay can be VERY high. There isn't any outside competition because only cops( FBI), and retire corrections have 24/7 gun carry in NYC. Many of the jobs are even glamorous. You work at movie stars homes, etc. One of my old partners retired and got a gig as a driver of a famous real estate developer(he can't say who). He gets a luxury car that he has to drive home and use at home. He is compensated for gas usage even when it is his own usage and gets OT pay while commuting.

Are you saying he should feel bad and inferior to yourself that he works this job making over 80k? If he added that to his 70k pension(which is like 85k since he pays no Fica, state, city taxes) he is making the = to over 150k per year basically NOT doing much. Doesn't sound like he has a lack of amplitude/attitude to me ;)...not in math anyway!


7.People chose to move up. Most don't..has nothing to do with aptitude. Unless you are saying that by not moving up I showed a lack of aptitude/attitude? (rolls eyes). The Sgt test is very hard btw. Plenty of the failures are by officers with degrees in finance and other subjects. It takes a lot of mindless memorization and most officers don't have or put in the time. But eventually even the failures pass the test if they want it. Like anything else..one achieves based on their desires and motivation to study.

But Det is a lateral move. A det doesn't outrank a cop in the NYPD. To become a Det is actually very hard or very easy. In other words, it is all about the amount of assignments that need to be filled and the number who put in for it. If someone wants to go into Narcotics or Vice when they expanding it is VERY easy because they will take almost all that apply. But if a cop wants to go into the Organized crime Bureau it could be hard because many want that assignment and they often prefer certain types( I knew a boss who actually said he would give me an interview because of my language skills but i had no interest). But 90% of police work is done by patrol , nothing to be ashamed about.


the police can't handle an out of control public, that's why the national guards have to be activated ....you're confusing the police with Swat which are Specially trained forces


Not true. National guard is called in when the cops don't have the man power. It is also intimidating for the public. After sept 11 we had national guard standing around to scare away terrorists and make the public feel like they were being cared for. But all they did was stand around. As I said part of my job sometimes was to babysit them back to their staging area(2001-2002). But police in any large dept are trained in crowd/disorder control. We handled over 1 million during the RNC.


The NYPD does not have the power to operate overseas they barely have the means to protect New York, Terrorism is under Federal Jurisdiction of the U.S. Intelligence Community which the NYPD is not part of...now you're confusing the police with the FBI and CIA


Nope as explained above, you are not aware of the operations that NYPD has been involved in. The NYPD has basically been conducting operations similar to what the FBI and CIA has done. We do it for our city NOT for your city(although I am sure we pass on tips)



if the FEDS walk in and tell the NYPD to stop an investigation...the NYPD has no choice but to comply


Really prove your claims please. NYPD doesn't listen to them usually, that is why our turf wars are famous nationwide, NOT about anything having to do with NYC security or crime in our city. FBI traditionally helps dept's that need help and if a dept can handle it keeps back. Since we have more manpower and resources than they have it would be moronic to think they take over whenever they want..if they aren't needed. However there is a joint NYPD-FBI task force where they work together to avoid confrontation.

But there are many times the FBI has criticized NYPD operations and there is nothing they can do to stop it. One is our foreign offices. They can't tell the Mayor of NYC (who being the mayor of an international city that has foreign relations to begin with) that he can't send officers to foreign countries that are outside US jurisdiction. Especially since those countries let us operate there.

The Feds only seem to be able to warn the NYPD about stuff that interferes with civil rights violations(federal jurisdiction) and then take us to court. Outcome takes years so usually negotiations are done.


..so perhaps think twice in trying to make claims that the police is something that their are not, it only lead to problems


Another example of the pot calling the kettle black! Perhaps you shouldn't make ignorant claims that aren't actually the real life application of how things actually work on the GROUND! Even worst when you are telling someone with an intimate knowledge and experience of such operations what you THINK is real based on paparazzi cartoons you have read. That shows audacity on your part and I hope an apology is forthcoming(won't hold my breath) because we are both mature reasonable adults.

It would be wrong for me, for example, to think I know about 3D animation and film-making more than you do. Although I probably know more about the movie industry than you know about Law Enforcement.

You also might not realize it, but certain comments you have mentioned aren't much better than someone spitting out stereotypes based on color. Stereotyping based on ones occupation or uniform color is beneath your dignity. Or am I wrong about that?;)

Lets just agree to disagree? But please don't tell me any of your so called opinions that are not grounded in reality!

Here are some Google links. I shouldn't have to do your research for you since you obviously aren't lacking the mental attitude that I am ;) and national/international media knows about it so you should to to be considered an informed American.

http://www.nycpolicefoundation.org/programs/international-liaison-program/

http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/the-stream/the-stream-officialblog/2014/1/7/nypd-s-overseas-presencecriticizedbyfederalofficials.html

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/join-the-nypd-and-see-the-world/

http://nypost.com/2008/03/25/fbi-vs-the-nypd/

http://newbrunswicktoday.com/article/nj-law-passed-response-undercover-nypd-surveillance-new-brunswick

http://blogs.reuters.com/photographers-blog/2011/09/08/inside-the-nypds-counter-terrorism-unit/

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fighting-terrorism-in-new-york-city/


http://gothamist.com/2011/09/26/ray_kelly_nypd_will_take_down_plane.php

http://gothamist.com/2011/12/05/good_to_know_the_nypd_has_six_subma.php

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/08/28/the-fbi-and-the-war-on-the-nypd-and-counter-terrorism/
 bryincalgary
Joined: 2/25/2015
Msg: 52
Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/7/2015 11:21:21 AM
I didn't feel that Hondo Gal was inferring that all blacks were bad whatsoever.Charles Barkley has nothing to do with low life thugs and I didn't think any member felt deet had any connection with those people except for a little pigmentation...bfd.

Replace the seasoned cops with rookies or remove them and you would have South Africa.I just voted for a university educated Jamaican immigrant in my riding in the recent provincial election.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 53
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Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/7/2015 11:50:46 AM
Message 49 & 50 ...

I don't exactly understand what point would be made by police officers to hold protests. What are they protesting?
... how bout they protest the fact they every time there is an incident they are indicted and convicted by the media before all of the facts are known?
Fine ... but how will they do that all over the country without putting the general public in danger? Can they spare that many police officers being off duty long enough to travel to protests?


What are they protesting?

... how politicians throw them under the bus before all the facts are known?
Well apparently in spite of that, many are getting off scot-free. So please tell us ... what is there for them to "protest"?

LMFAO at etourdi65 ... he just keeps blessing us with such remarks as the following ...
Message 50 ...
you are in the cops are bad, whites are racist camp
Nope ... just don't like "crooked cops". There's a big difference. Apparently as far as you're concerned, there is no room for in between. (Gee, what's new?)

I'm a nurse and I'm proud of my work. However, I have no tolerance for "crooked or lazy nurses" ...
... lazy nurses who sign off on changing dressings that they never even looked at much less changed
... lazy nurses who sign off on turning or repositioning patients that they never even bother to check up on
... lazy nurses who fake vitals on their patients
... lazy nurses who show up to do a home visit with no blood pressure cuff or stethoscope
... lazy nurses who don't even stick around long enough to see the patient take their medications ... just leave them in a little cup at their bedside.

I've encountered it all and then some. Want me to go on?

Just an FYI ... not all cops are "bad" or "crooked". But who talks about the ones who aren't? National attention is drawn to the "crooked" ones or "badly behaved" ones.

And then if someone goes into a public forum and voices their opinion about their disgust for such "bad behavior" ... they get accused of "hating all cops". In your small-mindedness, just because a person has no tolerance for anything "crooked", then they hate all cops or ... all nurses?
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 54
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Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/7/2015 11:56:55 AM
^^^^Can't argue with that ;)

If the news and forums were all filled with HAPPY HAPPY stuff like in the movie demolition man with Stallone and Sandra Bullock this place would be void of anything to discuss!
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 55
Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/7/2015 12:05:45 PM

adventurejoe70
1. You are right that the NYPD legally isn't suppose to cross the state lines. BUT reality is they have been doing it since 9/11 and none of the complaints go anywhere

and that's what the protest in Baltimore is about...police believing they can "illegally" do as they please to American Citizens and not worry about the complaints going anywhere
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 56
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Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/7/2015 12:33:07 PM
I said I am not addressing Baltimore since I have NEVER been there and don't follow events that I can't comment on. But it is the actual police dept's and other governors that complain in the other states that have complained lol. At the end of the day it is turf wars.

Do you think a suspected terrorist cares if he is spied on by NYPD , as oppose to FBI? We aren't sending cops out of state for traffic violations. It is mostly counter terrorism related.

And most of the Governors who complained then changed their minds and made some agreements. For example NYPD cops were patrolling PATH trains into NJ at one point and NJ cops would ride them into NYC in return. The Port Authority cops that have dual jurisdiction aren't numerous to do the job.

Heck all we have to do is have the state allow the city to impose more commuter taxes again..NJ residents would whine. At the end we know money and power decides . When your local economy brings in a large share of the USA economy to the point that we GIVE much more than we receive from the FED, that is A LOT of clout. . Plus we have a succession movement here(tiny maybe but there).

As was mentioned, and if you believe the conspiracy theorists who claim the world is ruled by elites in NYC and London, those same elites can put A LOT of pressure on Washington. If you read my links you will see that a large part of our dept funding, including our overseas missions, is being funded by the Police Foundation. That foundation is basically made up of those ELITEs and their business interests.

That being said there are incidents when emergencies have happened that granted police in other areas powers across state lines. Hurricane Katrina for example. NYC sent hundreds of cops. Your city and most large dept's also participated to help stop the looting.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 57
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Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/7/2015 2:21:19 PM
First off police officers protesting fellow officers getting shot....what's the point? Not that it ISN'T a total outrage but they realize that's part of the risk when they sign up for the job.

Protesting just for the sake of protesting is a huge waste of time, usually it's either to garner media attention, put political pressure or both. I found out about it later, but what my city did was they had people show up at our Central Park with flashlights and signs showing our support of our police officers. Had I known, I'd certainly have been there, I only found out about it because I had suggested the idea to my son and he said Mom they did that a couple of days ago.

People protest enough, it'd be nice to see more gatherings in SUPPORT of something.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 58
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Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/7/2015 2:39:19 PM

He incited blacks by stating that he, and his black wife, warn their son to be wary of cops!


Ironically my landlord was fixing my tiles today and bought up that statement. He (Greek guy) said that statement sounded ludicrous when one considers the Mayor has a police protective detail watching him and his family 24/7. Pretty common knowledge here if my landlord knew that.

So in essence, he is warning his son that the protective bodyguards, trained in Dignitary protection, accompanying his son to school might do him harm? WOW...when looked at in that light it must make sane people cringe.

Although Obama does have a reputation, so I have heard, of alienating his Secret Service agents, I doubt he would ever go that far. Mayor Din kin's NEVER went that far.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 59
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Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/7/2015 3:02:32 PM

People protest enough, it'd be nice to see more gatherings in SUPPORT of something.

That's just a matter of perspective. Gathering in support of the status quo is protesting against change, and gathering in support of change is protesting against the status quo.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 60
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Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/7/2015 3:06:02 PM
"That's just a matter of perspective. Gathering in support of the status quo is protesting against change, and gathering in support of change is protesting against the status quo."

Well not to argue but your premise seems to be hair-splitting, just my opinion.
 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 61
Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/7/2015 8:15:59 PM

Show me a recent white protest wherein whites burned down businesses, stole everything they could get their hands on, burned public and private property and more than 144 vehicles. Also assaulted dozens of police officers and innocent persons.


Pumpkin fest in Keene NH during the fall of 2014. Mostly white college students committed arson, vandalism, threw beer bottles at police etc.
 lilsapp13
Joined: 12/13/2008
Msg: 62
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Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/7/2015 10:11:08 PM
Uh you asked when the last time white people rioted was...they acted an ass when UK lost to Wisconsin a few weeks back. I personally wouldn't care if cops walked off the job. I always hear about "protecting my life" and "saving me from bad guys" but the reality is that no officer has ever prevented any wrong doing from happening to me. They pretty much serve the purpose of showing up after the fact (way after the fact) and filling out a report so I have something to give to the insurance company. I don't think all or even most cops are bad. However, there are quite a few bad apples in the bunch. If I know it, they know it. If you can tolerate scumbags in your presence without calling them out and purging your department, how "good" are you really?
 aj7125
Joined: 11/28/2014
Msg: 63
Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/7/2015 10:24:15 PM
Whites who destroy property by rioting and looting are thugs, doesn't matter the color.
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 64
Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/8/2015 2:40:05 AM

I always hear about "protecting my life" and "saving me from bad guys" but the reality is that no officer has ever prevented any wrong doing from happening to me.


At least not that you could tell directly. How do you know the guy he arrested yesterday would'nt have been the guy who shot you during a robbery today?


They pretty much serve the purpose of showing up after the fact (way after the fact) and filling out a report so I have something to give to the insurance company.


Would appear that way doesn't it? Unfortunately they haven't figured out how to be there when the crimes in progress and they don't even know where that's at and still respond to the other three 911 callers ahead of you who are miffed because they didn't stop his crime before it happened either.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 65
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Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/8/2015 3:43:16 AM

I always hear about "protecting my life" and "saving me from bad guys" but the reality is that no officer has ever prevented any wrong doing from happening to me.
At least not that you could tell directly. How do you know the guy he arrested yesterday would'nt have been the guy who shot you during a robbery today?

Careful, you folks might actually get somewhere with that kind of talk.

How do we ever know what is best in a single instance if we don't know what would've happened if what did happen hadn't? We don't, because of this... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_of_time

What we can do is look for correlations over many many instances, and make careful deductions about what happens under various conditions on average or with certain frequencies. To wit, statistics.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 66
Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/8/2015 7:53:39 AM

adventurejoe70
Although Obama does have a reputation, so I have heard, of alienating his Secret Service agents,

so people jump over the White House fence and make it through the door, an aero copter flies onto the White House lawn, an armed person without security clearance rides in the elevator next to him, he is giving a speech at Mandela's Memorial next to a fake sign language Interpreter and at a press conference they ask President Obama if he had trust in the Secret Service and he states that he does...and this is what you call President Obama Alienating his Secret Service Agents


adventurejoe70
Do you think a suspected terrorist cares if he is spied on by NYPD , as oppose to FBI?

the FEDS might have a problem if the NYPD is doing the spying and not relating that information back to them


adventurejoe70
and if you believe the conspiracy theorists who claim the world is ruled by elites in NYC and London, those same elites can put A LOT of pressure on Washington.

so do you mean that the World isn't ruled by the Illuminati and the shift shaping lizard people that are supposedly part of President Obama's security detail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2mjs_gdMAI
 lilsapp13
Joined: 12/13/2008
Msg: 67
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Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/8/2015 10:48:28 AM
I hear you but the reality is (I can only speak for myself) I have had more harm befall me at the hands of officers than others. I realize that might be an unsettling thing to hear and might not align with your personal experience, but it's a reality that a significant portion of the population lives with every day. Police don't police PEOPLE. They police STEREOTYPES. That's always a dangerous situation for those of us who don't fit comfortably into whatever category the prevailing narrative says we should.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 68
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Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/8/2015 11:18:46 AM

the FEDS might have a problem if the NYPD is doing the spying and not relating that information back to them


Well they do care and that is why they are angry at times and there is/was a turf war. But they have learned that they ALSO have to share info back.

Apparently, despite all the FEDS whining they had to GIVE in 1st because they were ordered to share their Classified secrets first with the SCIF vault installed in Brooklyn. Later on, FBI approval of a SCIF vault at One Police Plaza(manhattan) where TOP SECRET information can be accessed ( I wonder if they really have X files?)

That being said the stuff we do overseas has NO Federal level scrutiny..it is completely out of their eyes, ears and jurisdiction!
 lilsapp13
Joined: 12/13/2008
Msg: 69
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Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/8/2015 11:35:04 AM
Not to pull you away from your previous subject matter but I really would like to pick your brain for a moment. While you were on the job I'm sure you knew which guys were dirty, who was there for the wrong reasons and the d-bags that give the profession a bad name. How did you feel about having to work with people like that? What's your reaction as a fellow officer when you see one of your brothers toeing or clearly crossing the line? How do/did you feel about being associated with guys like that? Was there any internal push back towards the troublesome of the bunch? I'm asking all of this with the assumption that you comported yourself like a decent human being while on the job but feel free to correct me if that is a faulty assumption.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 70
Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/8/2015 11:53:15 AM
Dirty cops in NYC??? Say it ain't so!!!


Former NYPD Officer Pleads Guilty in Disability Fraud Scheme

A retired member of the New York City Police Department pleaded guilty to charges that he led a ring that directed hundreds of applicants for disability benefits to lie about their psychiatric conditions.

Joseph Esposito, 70, of Valley Stream, New York, is one of four people accused of directing the ring, which netted about $21.5 million in fraudulent benefits, according to Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr.’s office. Esposito was accused of recruiting three-quarters of the applicants indicted in the scheme, coaching them on how to participate and collecting kickbacks, according to Vance’s office.

Esposito pleaded guilty Wednesday to first-degree grand larceny in New York State Supreme Court in Manhattan. If he fulfills his obligations under a cooperation agreement with the district attorney, he will be allowed to plead to a lower charge of second-degree grand larceny and prosecutors will recommend a 1 1/2 to 4 1/2-year sentence. He also agreed to pay about $734,000, the amount of government benefit losses he was responsible for.

Vance’s office in January announced the indictments of more than 100 retirees, most of whom worked for New York City’s police and fire departments, for participating in the scheme. While more than 80 of 128 indicted defendants have pleaded guilty so far, Esposito is the first of the alleged ringleaders to admit to a crime as part of the scheme.

“Although neither the architect nor the mastermind, Mr. Esposito acknowledged that in his role, his actions crossed both an ethical and a legal line,” his attorney, Brian Griffin, told reporters after Wednesday’s plea.

Another Defendant

Prosecutors said Esposito and another defendant in the case, John Minerva, 62, of Malverne, New York, a disability consultant for the union that represents NYPD detectives, brought applicants into the scheme and referred them to Raymond Lavallee, 84, of Massapequa, New York, a lawyer who previously worked in the Nassau County District Attorney’s Office, and another defendant, Thomas Hale, 90, of Bellmore, New York, to submit the applications.

While many of the applicants had limited disabilities that entitled them to state pensions, they weren’t eligible for Social Security Disability Insurance, which requires a complete inability to work, according to Vance’s office.

The applicants, under the coaching of the alleged ringleaders, then created fake psychiatric conditions, such as depression, anxiety and post-traumatic stress disorder, according to Vance’s office.

Esposito and the other alleged ringleaders told the applicants to describe symptoms of depression and anxiety to doctors that they had recruited in order to build a one-year record of psychiatric treatment, according to Vance’s office.

Memory Tests

The applicants were instructed on how to fail memory tests, how to dress and statements to make, according to Vance’s office. Almost every applicant included identical descriptions of their lives, according to prosecutors. Many applicants made up claims of mental illness as a result of the 9/11 attacks, according to Vance’s office.

Esposito and Minerva allegedly took cash payments of $20,000 to $50,000 once the applicants received their benefits and distributed the money to Hale and Lavallee, according to Vance’s office.

The applicants claimed they were mostly confined to their homes, didn’t travel, and had limited social interaction, while driving, flying and playing recreational sports, according to Vance’s office.

One defendant piloted a helicopter, another played blackjack in Las Vegas, and another worked at a cannoli stand in the annual San Gennaro Festival in Manhattan’s Little Italy, according to Vance’s office.

The ringleaders are accused of operating the scheme from January 1988 to December 2013, obtaining as much as $500,000 in fraudulent proceeds from one applicant, according to Vance’s office.

People v. Esposito, 00201/2014, 00739/2014, 00845/2014, New York State Supreme Court, New York County (Manhattan).
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 71
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Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/8/2015 12:22:55 PM
Tbh NO one sane would want to work with a D-bag or incompetent cop in the 1st place. Who do you think they are more dangerous to? The people working next to them.

I worked a few times with an idiot! Not talking criminal /corrupt types. I just mean mentally unsuited. I would let him know or the Sgt that I would prefer NOT to work with that cop. The bosses would get enough complaint s from others and would know the deal. Just like any profession.

As for the criminal d-bag types..tbh there REALLY aren't that many I think but in todays world it stays hidden. This isn't the 60's and 70's anymore where there were guys doing dirty stuff and others look the wrong way. Today's cops imho are more likely to rat them out than the public. That just makes them stay hidden longer though.

If you notice the rare media instances where that stuff happens today it will usually be some cop who robs banks at night with his neighborhood buddies. They make sure that no one working with them is on to them. So imo they are thugs before they got on the job. It has nothing to do with their power. They just use the dept as a cover.

You got to understand that unlike TV/MOVIES the avg patrol cop wouldn't even have a big opportunity to be corrupt in most large city depts. For example, I can't remember ever arresting a guy who had more than 300 bucks and a few dime bags or crack pipe. No kilo's of Cocaine like in the show The Shield. Do you think any sane person would risk their job for 300 bucks? EXACTLY!


As for push back against troubling officers. There are 2 sides to it. The city considers a troubled officer someone who doesn't meet their quota's. So when they punish someone it will most likely be the troublemaker who doesn't meet his 'productivity objectives'.

Now the crazy unmoral cops will be taken off patrol, put on a desk, sent to the police shrink and maybe fired if they cross the line..but that line unfortunately

The closest to corruption I have EVER seen was actual at the higher ranks. But unfortunately this is like legalized corruption because the courts, gov't, leaders allow it to happen. Again it is related to activity. A cop that is a bit aggressive and should be retrained or taken off the street will often be put into special units that allow him to be aggressive because it generates activity. They allow it as long as tickets and arrests come in. Many times it blows up in their faces and the cop and even sometimes the boss gets jammed up because of it.

But those cops are in units away from patrol so the majority of cops don't interact with them and they have been reported many times by other cops which is why most cops won't work with them. So cops aren't protecting them at all...the bosses are.

As for racism, can't really speak about that since the NYPD is 50% minority and we generally get along with everyone. However there was once this Sgt when I was a rookie who was A BIG A HOLE. Most bosses are, but he was extreme. My direct supervisor (hispanic btw) came to us the 1st week to warn us about him. He was a good boss, sadly he retired.

Anyway over the years this SGT was a real **stard. Unprofessional, harassed us, etc, etc. He even endangered us a few times( refused to let us get new radio batteries) Other supervisors knew but allowed him to continue.

On my job Bosses stick together ( i hear military is like that a bit). The blue line that you use to hear about should be renamed the WHITE line (bosses over sgt wear white shirts) because they allow them to get away with shit.

So years later about 9-10 of us (70% of the platoon) all wrote a signed petition(kiss assers with inside jobs refused). One of the reasons we all finally did something was because most of the black cops said to us that he was being really racist when he spoke to them. That didn't diminish how he bothered ALL of us. But that means we actually had the ability to make a formal complaint(EEO COMPLAINT) that we can even take outside if the dept didn't deal with him.

So of course the ass kissers who work inside getting bosses their coffee warned him and other bosses 1st. Bosses being WHITE WALL of silence warned us NOT to go ahead but we didn't listen. We all marched into the Captains office with our signed document and told him everything.

That Sgt was transferred within the week. Better assignment though but still. So as you can see the only outward racism I ever seen on the job was ACTUALLY a Sgt against other minority cops. Perhaps when he was on patrol in his youth he did it to the public? who knows!


@BigIrish...old news! Has little to do with dirty cops since the ones who make it are actually lawyers(former profession is irrelevant) and their clients are uniform services. They tend to have more FDNY clients. FDNY (firefighters) are known to be the biggest recipients of these questionable handouts.

There are also lawyers like these that specialize for SSD that have normal clients that work in all types of jobs. The lawyers in general do whatever it takes to win because of the fact that they only get paid if their client wins. Go buy a copy of 'the Chief'....you will see them advertising.

But interesting these articles never tell the end result.I bet you the majority of the recipients will continue to get benefits. Wanna bet money? Out of thousands of clients seems they were only able to spot a few(100?).

Reason: in the end those cops might actually have those conditions(report after 9/11 came out that majority of cops were suffering from PTSD). Being able to play Blackjack doesn't mean they can work a normal job. The requirements is that they can adapt to a normal 9-5 job. As long as they have doctors who say they can't, they can't lose benefits. That is the law!


And based on the new Tier 3, NYS passed they can't even retire cops on Ordinary disability from the job unless they also get SSD. But the job retires cops medically ALL the time for ordinary disability(ODA), even against the cops wishes. They do so because it means the cop gets less than Accidental disability(line of duty).

So for all the cops that are forced to retire medically on ordinary disability who are Tier 3, they are Guaranteed SSD benefits.That makes me think the journalist hasn't researched everything. Because most cops retired on disability are Ordinary NOT accidental.

For your reading enjoyment I will post a link to tier 3 disability benefits. You will see that ALL cops being medically retired NOW QUALIFY for SSD.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nycppf/html/tier_3/tier_3_disability_retirement.shtml

"To be eligible for Ordinary Disability Retirement, a member must be in active service and have at least five years of credited service, but not yet be eligible for a Normal Service Retirement benefit. To retire for ODR a member must also be eligible to receive primary Social Security disability benefits. If a member is also found to be disabled by the Medical Board, ODR benefits commence on or after receipt of primary Social Security disability benefits."

So as things stand in the new tier, the cop could do whatever the frack he wants, except working for money, and still get his SSD.. because the new law says he is required to get SSD and the job NEVER takes back someone they retire for medical reasons.



But oh well a few dozen dirty cops to add the population of dirty financial workers ;)
 lilsapp13
Joined: 12/13/2008
Msg: 72
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History
Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/8/2015 2:07:30 PM
I appreciate your honesty. I don't really know of any area that would be classified as a metro department as large as NYC. I'm in the south and have quite a few friends and relatives that are police so I understand how few the numbers are of the rouge cops. The crazy part is that the guys who actually do their jobs and do it well seem to catch the most shit while the wild bunch run unabated. I have a cousin under investigation for attending a party at the FOP lodge that had barely dressed women and people with questionable street ties in attendance. All he did was receive an invite and show up. He's far from dirty but from my vantage point a "questionable officer" is throwing him under the bus to save his own ass.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 73
Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/8/2015 4:49:45 PM

Has little to do with dirty cops since the ones who make it are actually lawyers(former profession is irrelevant) and their clients are uniform services. They tend to have more FDNY clients. FDNY (firefighters) are known to be the biggest recipients of these questionable handouts.


If I understand your comment, your contention is that it's ok for NYC policemen to defraud the public since it's lawyers who assist them and firefighters do it more often.


Being able to play Blackjack doesn't mean they can work a normal job.


Don't forget sail fishing...


A retired NYPD cop who scammed Social Security in order to collect hundreds of thousands in disability — all while he was relaxing and sail fishing in Costa Rica — got a no-jail deal Friday for his role in the massive scam.
Richard Consentino received a conditional discharge after pleading guilty to a lesser charge of third-degree grand larceny.
http://nypost.com/2015/02/27/retired-cop-gets-no-jail-deal-in-social-security-scam/


But interesting these articles never tell the end result.I bet you the majority of the recipients will continue to get benefits.


There aren't any articles about who is still collecting, but there are articles about restitution:


He was sentenced Friday to 100 hours of community service and ordered to pay $207,000 in restitution, both of which he has completed, his attorney said in Manhattan Supreme Court.

With Esposito's plea, 87 people have admitted guilt. They must pay $100,000 or more in restitution, and most are expected to complete community service, probation or both. A few have gotten time behind bars.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/27/ex-officer-admits-helping-others-feign-psych-problems-in-massive-nyc-disability/


But oh well a few dozen dirty cops to add the population of dirty financial workers ;)


Anyone who had read these political threads has read my posts about the monumental harm the financial industry has done to America-you must have missed those dozens of posts-it is not OK to steal...but, what I read from your postings is a justification to violate the public trust-because it was only a few dozen policemen defrauding the Social Security Administration...their lawyers did it and they didn't know what they were doing or that it was wrong...and after all NYC firefighters do it more often.

And my point isn't that "all" policemen are crooks...the vast majority are not...but, it is also my contention that it is more than "none" that are crooks...
 HondoGal
Joined: 5/30/2014
Msg: 74
Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/8/2015 5:44:41 PM
Today I watched the funeral of the Brian Moore. 30,000 or more Police Officers from primarily neighboring states attended. JETBLUE AIRLINES provided free air fare to Police Officers wishing to attend the funeral. As this young hero was eulogized a priest wiped tears from his eyes. As did I. The Moore family displayed their uber class by permitting turncoat, commie Mayor deblasio to attend.
Where was Obama’s representative?





how bout they protest the fact they every time there is an incident they are indicted and convicted by the media before all of the facts are known? or how politicians throw them under the bus before all the facts are known?~etorudi

Absolutely, the media loves the accusations against cops…as does our present Federal administration.





I don't exactly understand what point would be made by police officers to hold protests. What are they protesting?~Cotter

I made that clear in my opening post. A march by hundreds of thousands of cops and consequently not being able to report for duty would wake up just how necessary cops are if we are to have a civilized society.




@
Obamagrl, you lack the civility and intellect to participate in a debate. Trolling is you forte, do it elsewhere.






But they shoot ARMED people(are suspected at being armed) because that is the safest way to deal with an armed perp. Chasing a person with a gun isn't smart in any dept. In the end the person will use the gun. He can turn and use it on the cop. He can take a hostage. The outcome isn't going to end well most of the time. Even escaping to fight another day isn't acceptable.~adventureJoe

I don’t know why this most recent murder was not shot on the spot. The cops should have emptied their guns on him.





you're trying to make police into something that they're not, some of them are overweight and out of shape and incapable of out running a teenager ~funchesf

We can correct that really quickly; repeal the Civil Rights Act. Prior to that we had height, weight requirements for cops. In order to accommodate women those requirements went out the window.





FBI , ATF, Russian police , Israeli police, etc, etc generally all will shoot 1st because that is the tactically practical way to handle such a thing. It is almost international. I could be the FLASH and I would still shoot an armed perp. I think Crookcatcher would do the same. If you value the life of armed thugs(or those acting like they can be armed) over that of cops, or innocent children, or old ladies , or whatever..then that speaks more volumes about you and your values than that of those overweight cops who have to eat donuts because they work at hours where there are no healthy food choices open and they work too much to hit the gym. VOLUMES!

+1, even when they are on a meal break they can be called and have to leave their food and respond. Hope they start finishing that donut when they have to go to the hoods.








Show me a recent white protest wherein whites burned down businesses, stole everything they could get their hands on, burned public and private property and more than 144 vehicles. Also assaulted dozens of police officers and innocent persons.~Hondogal

Pumpkin fest in Keene NH during the fall of 2014. Mostly white college students committed arson, vandalism, threw beer bottles at police etc.~south city

A completely asinine comparison. If you need to post lies your opinion is discounted. There was no arson, there was no looting, no burning down of 200 businesses or countless vehicles.






I didn't feel that Hondo Gal was inferring that all blacks were bad whatsoever.Charles Barkley has nothing to do with low life thugs ~ bryincalgary
Good blacks often hate the black criminals, thugs for at times they have to live among them AND frequently become their victims. When that big storm occurred in NY and NJ a couple of years ago, the son of my good friend in NY (black African) called to tell me that they had let out his community college early. Unfortunately the gansters were roaming looking to take advantage of the storm situation. This young man carrying literally noting of value was mugged at gun point by blacks for his computer and wallet.




If I know it, they know it. If you can tolerate scumbags in your presence without calling them out and purging your department, how "good" are you really?~lilsapp

Of course you apply this premise within your own race who have the highest crime rate in this country. How about you encourage your own race to purge the hoods of the career criminals? The decent blacks who live in fear of the many thugs, gang members would really appreciate you if you were to practice as you preach.





What we can do is look for correlations over many many instances, and make careful deductions about what happens under various conditions on average or with certain frequencies. To wit, statistics.~generosity

Why Giuliani instituted the ’stop and frisk’ initiative. Crime, dramatically decreased, benefiting those in the worse neighborhoods best.






So in essence, he is warning his son that the protective bodyguards, trained in Dignitary protection, accompanying his son to school might do him harm? WOW...when looked at in that light it must make sane people cringe. ~adventureJoe


Not only was that statement thoughtless and reckless but additionally unbelievable for the reasons you pointed out. Belousio said it merely to further incite the black protesters, and to display his unity with the mobs. All the cops knew it, why they now hold him in contempt.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 75
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Police Officers across the county should hold protests…
Posted: 5/8/2015 7:31:38 PM

If I understand your comment, your contention is that it's ok for NYC policemen to defraud the public since it's lawyers who assist them and firefighters do it more often.


Where did I say it is ok? I did kind of said they aren't doing it more than anyone else to make the point that the media tends to focus only on cops(fire sometimes) and ignores the bigger issue. The fraud in the system overall is bad and should be reported.

In this case it is retired cops(often involuntarily retired) it isn't in their position as cops since they aren't cops anymore.How can one violate the public trust as police officers when they AREN'T police officers anymore and there is NO trust in them.

You seem to miss the point that today ALL ordinary disability retirees can get SSD though legally(tier 3). Which I will bring up next point(and I am curious why you didn't compliment me on that point since you were quick to question my morality)



Don't forget sail fishing.


Sorry. Lets add doing yard work, playing golf, fixing the roof, etc. Those activities are not forbidden to collect SSD. In fact SSA allows disabled workers to EVEN WORK and make a certain amount every month. Again why argue? go read about it directly from SSA site.

My fathers friend had to go on SSD.He was a teacher. He still substitutes as a teacher a few days a month. There are rules!
They even process it overseas..so you have thousands of retired guys living in Costa Rica and Thailand who are PLAYING around while legally collecting SSD. I suspect I met many by chance. And they are diving even! But their individual disability MAY NOT disallow those activities. So point is: it is up to SSA if they are indeed disabled or not. Not what you or I think their limitations are. Obviously Some did break the rules..and those are the ones found to be guilty.

You don't have to agree with me but that doesn't mean I support thieves..that is a BIG jump in logic, even for YOU!(see that is how one throws in wit without it being an attack)

Also with tier 3, any officers who came on after 2009-2010 will actually be guaranteed SSD NO MATTER. To save money the state basically changed pension tiers and doing so obligated the SSA(although a federal program it is state workers that process applications here). The NYPD board gets rid of cops all the time. If you piss off a boss, there have been cases where the boss got revenge and sent the cop to psych services and they retired the cop for disability. Now with the new rules, that cop in addition to his police pension will get SSD automatically.
But since that cop himself might actually not have wanted to get kicked out might actually go fly planes,etc. But SSD will still have to pay him since it is one of the conditions of being forcibly retired. What you think of that? SSD (in conjunction with NYS )basically just obligated themselves to force designate many ex cops as disabled who actually may NOT be!




Anyone who had read these political threads has read my posts about the monumental harm the financial industry has done to America-




Well at least you didn't write a posts saying you invented the question mark or made the wheel round.

And if you were to not fit the stereotype of Financial planners;) you would have realized I put a smiling winky face above ;)...that means it was a said in fun! Nothing personal!

And I in turn got ACCUSED because of a joke I made..you should be ashamed of yourself! Apology accepted ;)



You must have missed those dozens of posts-it is not OK to steal...but, what I read from your postings is a justification to violate the public trust-because it was only a few dozen policemen defrauding the Social Security Administration...their lawyers did it and they didn't know what they were doing or that it was wrong...and after all NYC firefighters do it more often.



POSTINGS? Is that the arithmetic part of your financial course work. ;) Lets see: 1 +0= POSTINGS! ;)

Or is it just that one post above you are commenting on? Because I assure you, unless there is a clone, I have never before talked about this subject or anything about stealing before. So I guess in this case you don't fit the stereotype of a financial planner..you know? good with arithmetic ;) There was NO POSTINGS as in PLURAL. Error perhaps?

Explaining how something works is also not condoning stealing. Because I am sure the majority of clients deserve their payments(the thousands that are NOT guilty). And actually if the Lawyers were to process the whole thing the cop actually could have NOT realized what he did was wrong. Lawyers do lie! You may not realize it but the lawyers are allowed to fill out the whole package without the cop reading it because some clients may be mentally unstable at the time.

Point I am making , is in the end, doing ALL those activities doesn't mean the cop isn't disabled..NOT by the definition of SSD. Although in this case those ones accused were violating rules if they were charged as being guilty.


And my point isn't that "all" policemen are crooks...the vast majority are not...but, it is also my contention that it is more than "none" that are crooks...


Good point. Where did ANYONE HERE say there weren't crooked cops? are crooked anyone else?When you eliminate the impossible everything else remaining is possible. I think what myself and Crookcatcher have bought up is that WE personally DON'T know them . I am pretty sure your co workers don't go tell you when they are illegally stealing , or do they? So I think we proved our points pretty good!



Point : Although you made a few decent points , most it in NO way even contradicts anything myself or any pro cop person said on here. It isn't even related to the thread topic .

And I wonder why you couldn't just post your post, LEAVING out what you believe I am condoning or NOT, because my morality isn't being discussed or questioned here nor am I a cop atm. That isn't how you win a debate.

That is how you start a personal argument!
ps--If I misjudged you or your intentions then I apologize and we can still be HUGGY BUDDIES :)
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