Notice: Forums will be shutdown by June 2019

To focus on better serving our members, we've decided to shut down the POF forums.

While regular posting is now disabled, you can continue to view all threads until the end of June 2019. Event Hosts can still create and promote events while we work on a new and improved event creation service for you.

Thank you!

Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 cassie_smiles
Joined: 5/13/2015
Msg: 228
Women and Fake BeautyPage 10 of 18    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)
Not every man objectifies a woman, not every man rapes or abuses women, not every man sexually harasses women at work. A few do or have, but not all and not the majority. We are the gatekeepers of ourselves for the most part (other than child abuse or rape). It is up to us to not put up with it, not deal with it and to report it. It is also up to us as women and mothers to teach our sons, brothers, partners and male friends how to behave. And if we are treated poorly it is up to us to stand for ourselves and not let the victim mentality over shadow all the good and the joy we had or can have. Don't let the past cloud your future and quit blaming all men for the actions of a few ***holes. If it's a crime, report it. And yes, I have empathy for those that have been hurt and harmed, but remember, the vast majority of us women haven't been.

I like to receive admiring glances and I like to give admiring glances. I'm human.
 clooneystutor
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 229
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 7:28:57 PM
^^^
She's very admirable too:)
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 230
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 8:31:22 PM

Not every man objectifies a woman, not every man rapes or abuses women, not every man sexually harasses women at work.


No, of course they don't. As the mother of three sons, and knowing many of their friends, I see and hear how they interact with young women, and I have hope. But men need to do better than not just participate; they have to call other men out on disrespectful behaviour when they see it.


We are the gatekeepers of ourselves for the most part (other than child abuse or rape). It is up to us to not put up with it, not deal with it and to report it.


I wish it were that easy. I totally agree with you in spirit, though :)


It is also up to us as women and mothers to teach our sons, brothers, partners and male friends how to behave.


Well, I certainly tried to do my part, but it is MALE role models who have the biggest impact on boys.


If it's a crime, report it.


It doesn't have to be criminal to be wrong.


I like to receive admiring glances and I like to give admiring glances. I'm human.


Agreed :)
 clooneystutor
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 231
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 8:38:16 PM


they have to call other men out on disrespectful behaviour when they see it.


And vice versa.

The overwhelming theme in the forums is that men just want sex and are angry about no responses.

I've only seen a few gals that step up and call out foo foo female behavior.

So yeah, it goes both ways...
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 232
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 9:30:08 PM

I've only seen a few gals that step up and call out foo foo female behavior.


IRL, I certainly call out sexism when I see it, regardless of who is doing it.

For example, a while back, I got a bunch of people on board to email a certain beer company with a completely offensive commercial. They showed a woman slapping a man in the face ( hard enough to give him a black eye) for looking at another woman. They obviously wouldn't show a commercial where a man hit a woman in the face, and it's not funny for a woman to hit a man.

I would totally be down with calling a woman out on her behaviour if she were to objectify or sexually harass men. Honest! The fact is, I don't believe I have ever seen the sexual objectification of men in person.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 233
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 9:50:36 PM

But men need to do better than not just participate; they have to call other men out on disrespectful behaviour when they see it.

What's stopping you from calling it out when it happens yourself? Geez, I want to be silent about some of this crap, but as a guy who goes to social places alone and sober and does a lot of people watching, there are SOOOOOO many times when other people LET crappy behaviors simply 'happen' and smile and pretend it's OK and even fake enjoyment of it. If you are truly THAT uncomfortable, why the hell do you still play along?!? Fear? Fear of being INsulted in a public place must be stranger than the fear of being ASsaulted in a private one, huh?

If you want to truly feel empowered and capable of controlling your life, a huge part of that - is realizing when its a good time to walk away.

The funny part is -
A lot of what we learn though online dating and these forums and such, is that people disconnect or walk away from damn near anything and everything for all kinds of willy-nilly reasons. People are CONSTANTLY walking away. What that means is that people are still very alone, still single, and still not capable of getting along with someone. When a person whos been rejected a thousand times or rejected others a thousand times finally decides to give it a shot, they get so blindly focused on 'success' and proving they made a great choice that they ignore a boatload of warning signs.

Faking security is pretty much the same thing as faking beauty. Neither one are the real thing. Sometimes you can live with that and that alone, but most of the time it's up to you, and you yourself to figure out - not demand that others be the hero because sticking your own neck out makes you uncomfortable.
 cassie_smiles
Joined: 5/13/2015
Msg: 234
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 9:53:31 PM
I agree with Clooneystutor, there is a lot of man "smacking" that goes on in these forums and not too many women, if any, step up and say "hey, your words are hurtful". Bad behaviour is bad behaviour and the "girls club" can be just as toxic or mean as the "boys club". So yes, it goes both ways.
 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 235
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 12:19:08 AM

I would not grope the naked guy any more than I would pinch a guy's bum for wearing tight jeans. You look with your eyes. No staring, no commenting, no touching.

Crouch under desk. Stop, drop, and roll... [insert 1950s instructional film for students here]

What results would those be?

Being objectified, like I said. Again, "would you truly feel sympathy for a guy more, less, or the same if he was purposely over-dressed in sexually-alluring attire walking onto a bus, and complaining about being objectified VS a woman in that same position getting the same results" [same level of objectification]?

I am honestly having a difficult time imaging a man dressed in a sexy-alluring way on a bus

LOL. I understand, and it can make for an interesting side-topic, but that's actually moot. If we were going out, and you came to me upset that your daughter or niece was being objectified on public transport and woe-is-she, and I replied "Yeah, but... what was she wearing?" wouldn't you be at all upset at me? I believe you would, as that would be pretty much a moot point, right? Be honest with yourself about it -- would you Truly feel the same level of sympathy for the guy being objectified on the bus wearing sexually-alluring clothes [for gay guys its not hard to imagine]? I think the whole "Yeah, but... what was he wearing?" would be asked, without it being anti-politically-correct, which shows that no, it wouldn't be the same level of sympathy (if much at all).
 Peppermint_Petunias
Joined: 3/30/2012
Msg: 236
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 3:41:53 AM
^^^^^^^^I would do as any respectable woman, if YOU were nekid on a bus. Look out the corner of my sunglasses and pretend not to .


Most men I would get off the Freakin bus
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 237
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 4:06:18 AM
Wouldn't Rosy the Riveter have just punched the guy out for inappropriately touching her?
Can women demand equality and yet expect men to "protect" them from harassment or police each other?
These are just questions that popped up as I read the more recent posts.

It reminds me of a song one of my kids had on a radio. The woman said she wasn't going to cook for the guy, he had to cook for her, she wasn't going go out of her way for the guy, but he had to bring her flowers, tell her she is beautiful and cater to her, she wasn't going to do any cleaning in the house (even her stuff?) so he had to do all of that. People object to "traditional roles" of their sex ( like "beauty rituals" to try to stay on topic)but want the traditional trappings?

Just stream of consciousness . . .
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 238
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 4:39:51 AM

I like to receive admiring glances and I like to give admiring glances. I'm human.


ALWAYS appreciate a respectful approach as I have done so myself....

Met a guy at the gas station once who was wearing a cologne that smelled INCREDIBLE on him....and I said, "Wow! You smell TERRIFIC!", LOL

He was flattered, his g/f sitting in the care was flattered, as she was laughing when he told her what happened and yelled out the window as they drove away, what kind f cologne it was....Eternity for Men....
And that's how you show appreciation without being a douche.... ;-)



I agree with Clooneystutor, there is a lot of man "smacking" that goes on in these forums and not too many women, if any, step up and say "hey, your words are hurtful". Bad behaviour is bad behaviour and the "girls club" can be just as toxic or mean as the "boys club". So yes, it goes both ways.


Difference is that from MEN, it is entrenched in our society as a, STILL, acceptable behaviour, whereas among women, it is a new one that is ONLY seen in Western civilization....
Do I find it acceptable either way?
No, not at all and have spoken out against it both here as well as in real Life...I have also been targeted for doing so on MORE than one occasion.....BOTH here and IRL....

So please, speak for yourself my friend, as I know MANY women who find it equally unacceptable regardless of who is being objectified....


"Yeah, but... what was she wearing?" wouldn't you be at all upset at me? I believe you would, as that would be pretty much a moot point, right? Be honest with yourself about it -- would you Truly feel the same level of sympathy for the guy being objectified on the bus wearing sexually-alluring clothes [for gay guys its not hard to imagine]? I think the whole "Yeah, but... what was he wearing?" would be asked, without it being anti-politically-correct, which shows that no, it wouldn't be the same level of sympathy (if much at all).


Problem there is, as ALWAYS, what is defined as "sexually alluring", and by whom...?

That is why there are laws against public nudity in most places...so your example is moot....
 ThePig0fYourDreams
Joined: 2/2/2015
Msg: 239
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 4:47:34 AM

Eternity for Men..


I have always made sure to have this in my collection. It is timeless.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 240
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 5:00:51 AM
I'm not normally a cologne/perfume lover/wearer myself...But sometimes, you get that person who WEARS the scent and mixed with their own body chemistry, it just WORKS!!!

On THIS guy...it just WORKED! LOL

Boy! Did it EVER!!!lmao

Two things that are important to me personally...What a man smells like, the more natural the better imo...and a man's voice...
I've noticed that it's not so much about how deep it is, but there is a certain tone or timbre that just...appeals to me...;-)
 GattoMonstrosis
Joined: 4/4/2013
Msg: 241
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 6:22:15 AM

Beauty be damned. With or without clothes. With or without soliticious behaviour.
A woman can be standing naked yet no man WITHOUT HER PERMISSION can touch her.


I'm sure i mentioned this on another thread somewhere but years ago i went to an ICQ meet'n'greet in Brighton with a woman i'd been talking to, not a date but just because we were both going so we might as well go together. We walked in to the venue and started chatting with people when some random guy walked up to her, cupped one of her boobs and then introduced himself as if he'd just doffed his hat to her, he was that divorced from rational reality that he thought that assaulting her was a good icebreaker.
She didn't want to leave because there were too many online friends she'd agreed to meet up with and say hi to, she'd been looking forward to it for a while, she was terminally ill and the friendships she had made were keeping her going. She was terrified and spent the rest of the night hiding behind me, because i'm six feet plus tall and at that time i had a kind of Goth Biker look, head to toe black leather, studs and chains.

There seems to be two schools of thought whenever i talk about that, most will say "No!!! Really?" because they can't quite believe anyone would do that and think i must be making it up to spin a yarn, but there are some who will always side with the bloke no matter what he did and say "Yeah, well, it was obviously just a joke, high spirits, no real harm to it, she should have taken it in the spirit of fun and grabbed his tackle." Like it was her fault for having big boobs and if she didn't want them grabbed she shouldn't leave her house, like rape is just rough sex.
 Hearton64
Joined: 12/18/2012
Msg: 242
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 7:05:25 AM

Not every man objectifies a woman, not every man rapes or abuses women, not every man sexually harasses women at work. A few do or have, but not all and not the majority. We are the gatekeepers of ourselves for the most part (other than child abuse or rape). It is up to us to not put up with it, not deal with it and to report it. It is also up to us as women and mothers to teach our sons, brothers, partners and male friends how to behave. And if we are treated poorly it is up to us to stand for ourselves and not let the victim mentality over shadow all the good and the joy we had or can have. Don't let the past cloud your future and quit blaming all men for the actions of a few ***holes. If it's a crime, report it. And yes, I have empathy for those that have been hurt and harmed, but remember, the vast majority of us women haven't been.

I like to receive admiring glances and I like to give admiring glances. I'm human.


Lucky you. But no one said anything against glances.
And there IS a vast majority of men committing crimes
of one type or another against women and women are being
blamed for it and that's the issue here!
I and millions of other women and girls have been sexually abused
and if 1 in 4 girls is sexually a used then 1 in 4 men are doing the sexual abusing.
Then add in all the women who've been raped as adults
abused,exploited and objectified and that's a lot more men
hurting females than a minority of men.

THRU NO FAULT OF OUR OWN.

So really your point about a vast number of women
have not been effected by men without boundaries or
conscience is off by a lot!

I don't sense your empathy for women more than I see
your defense of men having ulterior motives.


Men need to police each other and help protect the
Females around them!

Take the time to listen and HEAR the real problem!

http://www.ted.com/talks/jackson_katz_violence_against_women_it_s_a_men_s_issue?language=en
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 243
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 7:08:53 AM

We are the gatekeepers of ourselves for the most part (other than child abuse or rape). It is up to us to not put up with it, not deal with it and to report it. It is also up to us as women and mothers to teach our sons, brothers, partners and male friends how to behave. And if we are treated poorly it is up to us to stand for ourselves and not let the victim mentality over shadow all the good and the joy we had or can have.


Bravo!!! Bravo!!!
 Hearton64
Joined: 12/18/2012
Msg: 244
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 7:24:52 AM
Don't be a bystander and allow
Women to be blamed for what men do!

I won't sit down and shut up!!

And I won't clap for any man or woman
who can't see the forest thru the trees!

What we women need is for men who don't abuse
women to stand up to men who do!
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 245
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 7:25:53 AM
Fear.. that was the point of my post which seemed lost on some of you. Completely over your head NG!! tsk tsk
Gatto.. .you on the other hand got it.

What would the naked man fear of the women? Being laughed at, mocked, oogled, touched? At the most, groped. Right?
What would the naked woman fear of the men? At the very most, she will be ganged raped and even possibly sodomized by object and killed.
NO? It's happened. More than once. All over the world.
Will you men ever knw what it's like to grow up a female KNOWING that this fear is real and valid?
We all know the woman is going to be more terrified than the man. THAT is my point.

Like Belle, I have a memories too.
11 years gold walkiing home from the candy store. Two drunk young men in a car careens to the side, one gets out holding the door offering me to ride with them.
16 .. walkiing home along a busy street in broad daylight along side with a gf from the local swimming pool. A man who had been "watching" me attacked me from behind and "tried" to grope my breast and in between my legs. My gf stood horrified as I fought and yelled. I spent the rest of that summer making sure I walked with either in groups, men or adults.
Then there are the men I actually dated, married. lived with.
Ya... it's not always strangers.

Fear. A lot women have to life with this all their lives. Most of us compartmentalize it to get on with our lives and do what we can do to protect ourselves.
That ass of a boy may not only have assaulted the girl but he may now have instilled fear.
All because she is female and boys will be boys. *rolls eyes*
That's why your comment Clem piss me the hell off.

A naked woman should be able to stand in a bus and not have that fear. Will that day ever come? I don't know.

And yes foo fo behaviour of the women should be called on, Fair is fair.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 246
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 7:29:42 AM
Oh please!

Will somebody please explain to me how we are supposed to "explain" to a GROWN man, that approaching a strange woman and cupping a breast by way of 'introduction' as in Gatto...'s post is to be done?

Puhleeze!

Women are objectified in every way, each and every day, it's just SO ingrained in our culture, that it can actually be difficult to 'notice'....

As far as being "gatekeepers of ourselves". well, pretty sentiment, but you and women who have NEVER experienced objectification, abuse, verbal and/or physical, and/or a sexual assault or transgression, are in the MINORITY...check the stats....

and you're welcome. Many women have fought very hard to change legislation and obtain rights for women that ensure that there will be women who NEVER have to experience that. I'm glad to see that in your corner of the world it's working....

Unfortunately it would appear that many men just don't get the 'message' and quite a few women have bought into that very same hype, and are out there objectifying themselves, as they think that is the path to 'happiness'....Well, more power to them, I was there to help them to have the right to do that and behave as ridiculously as men do, if that is what they wish...

I will NOT, however excuse anybody who holds onto archaic and misogynistic notions of 'what women do', or 'how all women behave' or 'what women SHOULD behave like', etc. from either men OR women....anymore than I would tolerate the same generalizations about a specific race etc.

It's 2015 people!!! Wake up and smell the coffee...We KNOW what doesn;t work, it's been tried and failed.

Now it's about looking to new solutions, and NOT running scared back to the old and familiar just because it's what we're used to.....

The beauty of human beings is our ability to imagine ENTIRELY new possibilities for ourselves and our futures.....

@Charm....so sorry for your experiences...Have some of my own as do about 1 of every 3 women, unfortunately.....

@Hearton...yes!!! Brava! Brava! Good for you to NOT take on 'responsibility' that DOESN'T belong to you or ANY women....

Women can teach their sons all they want, but the reality is that men learn to be men from the MEN that they know, and NOT from women.....Boys need good male role models in their lives, regardless of whether or not it is their Father....
 Hearton64
Joined: 12/18/2012
Msg: 247
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 7:38:21 AM
As for the comments about victims having a " victim mentality"
that's just another form of victim blaming that MUST STOP
In order to hold the perpetrator of abuse 100% for their actions
or never change the culture of violence against females.

It's bad enough that men use it to their advantage but women????


Since the early 1970s, when objections to victim-blaming entered the public discourse, victims-rights advocates have been accused of having a victim mentality—one in which we’d rather ignore personal responsibility and the culpability of women in their own victimization. Others claim that it would be better to stop considering blame at all and to think instead of the roles that each person plays in the dynamics at hand. That might work as an academic exercise, but in terms of changing culture, I think it is virtually useless.

Shifting the focus from people to systems isn’t a mentality of victimization, it’s a critique of the deeply entrenched, destructive attitudes at the heart of violence and oppression, and the first steps toward dismantling them. That is a matter of personal responsibility.

—Soraya Chemaly
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 248
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 8:14:00 AM
yep, when I was working a summer for credit towards my high school tuition, I and another fellow were alone in a room with a girl who wasn't dressed provocatively, and he decided to get her on the ground with his "Roman" hands. So I stepped in, got her out, and got asked," what are ya, a fag?". So I know its possible to be "uncool" and step in to stop a molestation. the more men who do so, the merrier.

I too go to public places sober, and watch drunks act like assholes. pull stunts on their friends they wouldn't have the brass to do if sober. not to make this a drunk-driving commercial, but some people would do themselves a favor watching their intake. not just to avoid an assault, but to avoid some of the other accidents that occur.

I also know what its like to get bullied/beat up/been shot at twice, talked the guy out of it the third time in the lunch room, gotten off the NYC subway at night in neighborhoods where I had the palest skin around, etc. life has its bad times. when I see where I can take charge on reducing those times, i'm not blaming myself, I;m taking control.

and the bit about acquaintance rape is no little thing. I think the number for sexual assaults in college is 80% are done by someone the victim knows. hopefully more women will learn not to hang out with people who will take advantage of them, which is a good habit anyway, but maybe it'll reduce the number of "friends" who take advantage in more violent ways.
 cassie_smiles
Joined: 5/13/2015
Msg: 249
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 8:24:46 AM

I don't sense your empathy for women more than I see
your defense of men having ulterior motives.


I'm so glad that people read minds. I wish I could as it would make deciphering posts much easier.

I am in no way, shape or form defending bad behavior by men. And no, not all women have been "abused" by men, some have, not all and not the majority. And yes, I have empathy, I live in a world filled with women and I hear their stories and I have my own.

The point of my post that was quoted was missed - not all men abuse, some have but not the majority. And by you numbers of 1 in 4 being abused...that is not the majority.

Don't blame ALL men for the actions of some.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 250
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 8:31:54 AM


Women can teach their sons all they want, but the reality is that men learn to be men from the MEN that they know, and NOT from women.....Boys need good male role models in their lives, regardless of whether or not it is their Father....


South America is a very, very, very dangerous place for a young woman. It is actually a very dangerous place for a young man as well, for we learn at about 10 that there are men out there that also like to molest and rape men. Yes. So part of this fear that women have, exist in less advanced countries for the whole of the population, male and female.
,
So what you do is you learn at an early age to protect your own group. That means when you go out down there, you go out in a group. And that group will have no less than three males, and all the girls are protected by the males. We learn this at an early age by our mothers, but it's emphasize by our fathers, to the point that we would not allow an outsider to try to touch one of our groups women, and the beating that such person would get in public would be such that person will be disfigured for the rest of his life. It's a brutal world, not only for the countries that diminish women to property, are not allowed to drive, or sign their names, but other third world countries where women are objectified, but also abducted and turned into slave prostitution.

My dad is a doctor, sworn to save lives, but at one point he showed me when I was a kid his Barretta. He told me where he kept the clip. He told me that the gun was never to leave the house. But if for whatever reason I had to pull it to defend the house, shoot to kill. When we went out in our groups we were taught with such ferocity to protect our women. And I mean our women not our property, but our sisters, female friends and mothers.

The culture is such that it would not be rare that a man that went to jail for rape, would be raped himself in jail and eventually beaten to death. The street creates it's own justice.

Be happy we live in the USA, Canada, Great Britain.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 251
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 8:33:25 AM
if someone with a crystal ball was to sit down and watch the number of male assaulters out there, i'll bet what they would find is...how often its the same turd going after different victims. again to quote recent college findings, many of the perpetrators are serial or repeat offenders.

not all men are barbarians. and i'll dare to say, not all victims are the same, either. I might meet someone who had their unlocked and running car stolen when they ran into the minimart in a bad neighborhood for cigarettes, and go, "geez, what were you thinking?" and then meet the person who had their locked car taken from their locked garage and think, "wow, that's a pity"
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 252
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 8:44:49 AM
Your post is interesting IG.
You'd think that sharing the same fear of being raped along with the women and being taught to protect the women as well as not viewing them as property but rather as sisters, friends, mothers men in general would grow up to not assault anyone, right? Then how is it that there is still brutality?


btw.. my apologies in advance for any spelling/grammer mistakes. Bad eyes day with zero patience nor enough time for correction. pffht. *grumbles*
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  >