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 AUTHOR
 GattoMonstrosis
Joined: 4/4/2013
Msg: 253
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Women and Fake BeautyPage 11 of 18    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)
There is a culture of "Never let a man take the blame" that's as hard to crack as gun control, it is an article of faith and an automatic response that the man never *is* to blame unless he's brown and even then the only real issue is that he's brown.

Yes sometimes there are witch hunts, sometimes people do make it up because ***holes aren't always men but that doesn't make it a conspiracy to be fought as a matter of some fvcked up principle.

Man beats a woman? "She nagged him" or "she's a lousy housewife" or some other ridiculous reason that meant she asked for it. Man rapes a woman? "She dressed like a slut" no matter how figure disguising her clothes might have been, so she asked for it, "hey, he's a man, man sees a sexy piece of ass it's it's his right to exercise his manliness and it's only a problem for women who take things too personally or who are too uppity, a proper woman would just shrug it off and take it as a compliment..."

It's easier to have a kneejerk position that means you never have to think about the person or what they felt, think of them as a thing, you can do anything you want to a thing.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 254
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History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 8:58:13 AM

Don't blame ALL men for the actions of some.


Never have and never will.....

The 1 in 3 number was quoted for sexual assaults and physical violence in particular, my apologies if that isn't clear....


However....
ALL women have been objectified at some point in their lives...some are just too oblivious to notice it as the more serious side of objectification, namely, discrimination, has been diminished so much in our Western civilizations....it tends to be easier to ignore....

Last I checked, blaming and worse, shaming women for having a 'victim' mentality when they ARE being victimized is as bad, if not worse, in some ways, than the original victimization....and frankly, more than a little disturbing coming from another woman.

Empowerment is the key.....

Like to see how many men would have stood up at a pool bar and stated that sexually based comments weren't ok when they saw a group of thugs directing them at two young women who were there to play pool....and made the mistake of being young and attractive and wearing jeans that weren't 'baggy enough', I guess....

None that were there at the time, and it was ALL ,men, with the exception of myself and the two other women...but I, myself, did, and almost had to call the cops because they objected to the fact that I told them to "Cool it" with the comments, as they were making the girls uncomfortable....SO 'strenuously' that I became the target instead....for 'interfering' with 'their harmless fun'....

Yeah, gee, how DARE those girls expect to go to a pool bar and play pool without being subjected to disgusting sexual comments, just because they were THERE!!!

So, no, the world actually ISN'T filled with JUST wonderful men, and if that has been your experience then, good for you, because you are a rarity indeed....and you did NOTHING to make that happen anymore than the women who HAVE been assaulted or abused have to make THAT happen....Don't kid yourself....
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 255
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 8:58:53 AM

Then how is it that there is still brutality?


What I am about to say may be too strong for these forums. But here it goes. Why the brutality? Because in savage-like countries not everyone is a person that grew up by principle and there's a culture of blaming the victim. There's a saying in Spanish that says:

"Marico por que te cojí." Which states, with a sense of pride that I may be the fagot, but it's because I fcked you. In other words, male rape. This also applies to the person that is kitnapped, robbed, attacked. The perpetrator has a sense of entitlement that this happened to you because you are stupid and therefore deserve it. So when they short your change, it's your fault because you didn't count, didn't check, were not in the alert. It perpetrates a sense of entitlement that you see quite evident when for example this couple, a woman who happened to be a Miss Universe, her husband and child were coming back from the beach when thugs threw on the highway this device the pictures their tires, and rather than then simply steal their car their money, whatever, they shot them down because the offered some degree of resistance.

You learn at an early age to live by principle, but also, that not everyone adheres to your principles. And that ALSO, by not doing anything, you are indeed doing something.
 cassie_smiles
Joined: 5/13/2015
Msg: 256
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 9:13:27 AM

The 1 in 3 number was quoted for sexual assaults and physical violence in particular, my apologies if that isn't clear...


Below is the post I was replying to the the 1 in 4 reference, my apologies if that wasn't clear.


I and millions of other women and girls have been sexually abused
and if 1 in 4 girls is sexually a used then 1 in 4 men are doing the sexual abusing.


No on is defending an abuser, no one. No one said the world is filled only with wonderful men. What I'm saying is, don't tar them all with the same brush. Don't blame ALL for the actions of some. Victim shaming is wrong as well, just wrong.


Empowerment is the key.....


Education and knowledge is power. When I went to school none of this was taught, no one talked about child abuse or any kind of abuse and we all know it was going on. Now schools teach about physical and sexual abuse. There are commercials on radio and tv about abuse and reporting abuse. We talk more openly about it and discuss it with our children, both genders. Its far more open and the more you are made aware, the less "secrets" there are.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 257
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 9:23:49 AM

honest with yourself about it -- would you Truly feel the same level of sympathy for the guy being objectified on the bus wearing sexually-alluring clothes [for gay guys its not hard to imagine]? I think the whole "Yeah, but... what was he wearing?" would be asked, without it being anti-politically-correct, which shows that no, it wouldn't be the same level of sympathy (if much at all).


You still haven't explained how he was objectified, which is because objectification is not something that happens one time on a bus. Are you suggesting that women looked at him? In which case, no harm, no foul. Objectification goes way beyond looking , and if you care to research a bit, you might have a different point to make.


What's stopping you from calling it out when it happens yourself?


Who says I don't?

Lots of women call men out on it, and
sometimes the response is great,
and sometimes you are told that boys will be boys,
and sometimes people tell you you are making too much of something,
and sometimes your are told to shut up and don't be a ****
and sometimes you are told is's a "compliment",
and sometimes the person in the workplace doing the objectifying is the boss...

I am all for reporting it, but DON'T suggest is it easy or without consequences. If you think it is wrong, and you are a man, step up and support the woman. What's stopping YOU?


Don't blame ALL men for the actions of some.


Was someone here doing that?
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 258
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 9:36:33 AM
Cassie .. I don't think saying

and millions of other women and girls have been sexually abused
and if 1 in 4 girls is sexually a used then 1 in 4 men are doing the sexual abusing.

is painting all with for the action of some. It's all in how you look at it. You see.................one in four. That means there are three that won't.
It's the fact that one in four is a pretty high number that is of concern.
But thank you for pointing out to recongize that remaining three as innocent. :)

Recongizing both rather than one or the other is good and fair.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 259
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History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 9:43:47 AM
See...this is why sometimes hammering away at a topic actually produces an end result that you are closer in views than originally thought and if nothing else we get some CLARITY! lol

Sorry there cassie....., but now that you've clarified, I do see that what I THOUGHT you were saying is not what you were actually trying to convey....thanks for clarifying...

I DO agree that we can;t paint ALL men with the same brush, I've met too many good ones that is just not reasonable for me....

I also agree that education and information is a vital part of the empowerment process, for both men and women....

The goal, contrary to a few loudmouths, has never been for women to be superior to men, just equal.....

To have the same rights to not live in fear for their personal safety, pretty much everywhere we go, to be free from harassment when going about daily activities such as work and play based on gender....To have equal access and opportunities for education and work and to live the Life that we envision for ourselves....To have legal recourse when discriminated against or treated unfairly, to be free to live and love and DO what we want based on the (equal) laws of our society, as opposed to being classified as property or dependents and restricted accordingly. To be paid equal pay for equal work, and to go about creating the best lives for ourselves as we can....
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 260
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 10:07:57 AM
The "you should report it" thing is so very easy to say, and so very challenging to do.

Many years ago I applied for a job, for which I was well qualified, in a male dominated industry. I had excellent references and I thought the interview went well. I did not get the job, and when I asked for feedback to help me in my job search, the employer told me, "You are too pretty. You would be a distraction to the guys." WTF?

So, report it, yes?

To the labour board? Then what? After months of waiting for a hearing he could simply deny it. Or...he could admit it and then what? He has to hire me? I doubt that would happen but if it did, it's not exactly the best way to get off on the right foot at the new job.

Of course it SHOULD be reported, but he SHOULD not have said it.
 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 261
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 10:17:55 AM

^^^^^^^^I would do as any respectable woman, if YOU were nekid on a bus. Look out the corner of my sunglasses and pretend not to .

Okay... you're saying I have a small penis. Thanks. ;( Kidding... or am I?

Most men I would get off the Freakin bus

This could be taken two ways... with "naked guy" and "getting off" lol But yeah, you'll want to kick him off. I can imagine if a naked cute gal got on a bus, and me Mr Perfect Citizen proclaimed "Here here! I will get this woman off... the bus!" :) However, as pointed out by Charm, no guy can touch the woman who Voluntarily came on the bus! (which can be taken two ways too lol)

Problem there is, as ALWAYS, what is defined as "sexually alluring", and by whom...?

Enough to be objectified by everyone on it. Why is everyone SO CHICKEN to answer the question?! :) Oh, it's because we know what the honest answer is, underneath it all -- even naturally to people like myself who rolls their eyes at the excessive P.C. police.

"Would you Truly feel the same level of sympathy for the guy being objectified on the bus [full of women] wearing sexually-alluring clothes, being upset & hurt afterward?" -- NO. It's allowed. It's how we're conditioned. "Toughen up, you're not raised to paint your nails. You're not just physically superior, you're emotionally superior as well -- even if you walked on a bus full of women in the military and you're a frail geek. There are no case-by-case issues. What are you, gay? Need military boarding school for a year to toughen you up?"

Fear.. that was the point of my post which seemed lost on some of you.

If a woman got naked and walked on a bus full of men, I would say she would be more fearless than 99.9% of men (and 99.9999% of women). I think that's a point that would be completely silly to throw out. I mean, that's part of the point, right? She's NOT afraid of anyone, in fact more bold than anyone, any guy or gal, to do so. Which is why one would think she must be on some drugs like emotional novacane. Men, no being rude to her by touching or oggling! Women, kick his ass off the bus (unless he's really hot; we'll let him stay until the next stop)!

Will you men ever knw what it's like to grow up a female KNOWING that this fear is real and valid?

Obviously that Woman wouldn't, who voluntarily walked up on the bus naked.

A guy's going to be Extremely physically inferior to a bus full of women. The same as a woman to a bus full of men. Lopsided for the group vs the individual. So it's Extremely Hellacious for her to be groped, mocked, and oggled if all in good fun -- but merely "not cool" for the guy if all in good fun toward him, because women have understandably greater fears due being physically inferior to men? The first thing we'll ask if a guy does that is "Well, why else did you walk on there buck-naked?" followed by "Oh, you were groped? Good for you!" And if the guy's upset and feeling violated, the first instinctual response would be "WTF? Why did you walk on there naked then?" as them being a truly independent person responsible for all their actions come rain or shine -- whereas to a woman, the society bias that she's just not physically inferior (even tho both genders are to a bus full of Anyone) -- but emotionally inferior to take ridicule which reinforces said things she should fear.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 262
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 10:18:25 AM

I am all for reporting it, but DON'T suggest is it easy or without consequences. If you think it is wrong, and you are a man, step up and support the woman. What's stopping YOU?

I'm not even remotely suggesting it is 'easy' to step up. A group of guys that are drunk enough don't give a rat's ass if it's one woman OR man that calls them out - they stick with the pack.

It's far easier to 1) not GET into those situations and 2) to walk (or run) AWAY from them. THEN this whole notion of obligating a stranger to run interference doesn't need to happen. Bars have people PAID to do those kinds of ugly things, and even THEY know enough to stay back until its absolutely necessary.

I have stepped into situations when something didn't look right. The nasty part about alcohol is people can go from blissful to psychotic in seconds and attack the person that's trying to defend them without any warning. Some ladies will go from painfully squirming away from the arms of a guy trying to kiss them to licking their face while doing an unsolicited lap dance in less than 15 minutes. I had to step up and block 5 guys brawling on a commuter train from getting into the larger passenger cabin where a couple dozen hammered women were trying to get home from their bachelorette parties.

The latter is an easy choice to make - a confined space, no escape, and clearly there was violence happening at the time. The police eventually had to arrest a couple of them.

The stuff that goes on "every night" - this verbal harassment and such - IT'S NEVER CRYSTAL CLEAR. If a sober woman walked up to me who was clearly fearful and ASKED for my help with a specific person, that's a no brainer. It SHOULD be for any bartender or bouncer as well. But people DON'T ask. People get hammered drunk and can't even speak a clear sentence. I've had a lady give ME a spontaneous lap dance because they were trying to avoid some guy following them around - but never explained why OR said thank you for helping them get out of a situation I had absolutely nothing to do with creating. They just stumbled away.

If you want my ten bucks worth of free advice, it's just three words - DON'T GET DRUNK. A sober person can handle so many more situations than a tipsy one, and do. A sober person also knows when it's smarter to step away. A lot of those nasty uncomfortable harassment things that happen aren't even REALIZED until the next day when they get back together at lunch and patch together what happened from their collective foggy memory. I KNOW it happens, because I'm sitting in the next booth reading a book and hearing every damn word of it. That is when the objectification of men happens - at lunch, hung over, drinking coffee - THAT is when the "All Men Are the Same" virus gets spread around.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 263
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 10:35:10 AM

If you want my ten bucks worth of free advice, it's just three words - DON'T GET DRUNK.


As it happens I am not much of a drinker, so I wouldn't benefit from this particular advice.


A lot of those nasty uncomfortable harassment things that happen aren't even REALIZED until the next day when they get back together at lunch and patch together what happened from their collective foggy memory.


ALL of my experiences with harassment and discrimination have happened when I was at school or in the workplace. So the drunk defense is moot as far as I am concerned.


I KNOW it happens, because I'm sitting in the next booth reading a book and hearing every damn word of it. That is when the objectification of men happens - at lunch, hung over, drinking coffee - THAT is when the "All Men Are the Same" virus gets spread around.


You might want to look up the term "objectification" ...that is not what it means. You might mean "stereo-typing" ?
 Theophannia
Joined: 1/19/2014
Msg: 264
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 10:40:54 AM
I was assaulted several times over my life, while a minor, and it was all FAMILY members. Rarely was it ever strangers or acquaintances. Even so, there have been attempts in my adult life. For a while, I did live in the fear that comes with that. Then, I learned about brake fluid. I am a cigarette smoker so I generally always have a lighter in my purse. A dollar store can of hairspray works (point in direction that is NOT human being when threatened, spray first, light the spray, it needs no other explanation) but a can of brake fluid, well, brake fluid is stunningly impressive. Same principal, do NOT aim at a living being, aim in direction where there is no living creature and some room, spray, light the spray stream while looking directly at your intimidation. It needs NO other introduction or explanation. 9 feet of steady, accelerant fed fire makes its own statement. Only ever had to make the introduction once.

I was approached by a very drunk guy one night who would not back off. I told him several times that I was not in the mood for his advances and asked him to leave me be. He acted like he didn't hear me. I then CLEARLY stated that it was in HIS best interest to leave me the **** alone. He laughed. I gave a demonstration. The change on his face as he registered what he was seeing was epic. We had no more issues the rest of the evening.

Remember ladies, brake fluid, lighter (Bic is more reliable), aim away from living thing, spray first, then light the spray. IF God forbid some complete retard continues to approach you after, well just re-aim. You have 9 feet of steady, well fed fire between you and them.
 Theophannia
Joined: 1/19/2014
Msg: 265
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 10:44:13 AM
I don't need a male to step in. I just began looking into and developed a passion for non-traditional weaponry, especially those that have shock factor value.
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 266
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 10:49:25 AM

If you want my ten bucks worth of free advice, it's just three words - DON'T GET DRUNK



This is such a bs blanket statement.
I can't even be in a long time friends' home with a group of people I knew .. for years! And not get drunk, find myself waking up in a bathroom with a two by four wedged against the door with my friends, all guys, banging on it trying to get in as one of their friends was trying to take my pants off.
They got in on time, threw the guy out and took 100% care of me. I was with people I knew! They never suspected this one man was the type to do such a thing. We thought we were safe. Apparently not!

How about instead of telling us all to not get drunk. Tell that one p.o.s waste of a skin not to sexually assault anyone!!!!!




Remember ladies, brake fluid, lighter (Bic is more reliable), aim away from living thing, spray first, then light the spray. IF God forbid some complete retard continues to approach you after, well just re-aim. You have 9 feet of steady, well fed fire between you and them.


And you my dear, will be in jail for burning a man should you ever make that threat real.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 267
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 10:51:42 AM

Enough to be objectified by everyone on it. Why is everyone SO CHICKEN to answer the question?! :) Oh, it's because we know what the honest answer is, underneath it all -- even naturally to people like myself who rolls their eyes at the excessive P.C. police.


I am not chicken at all. In fact, I tried to answer you sincerely, but the analogy just doesn't hold up.

I have three sons, and if you think for a second I downplay or invalidate any of their feelings or fears, you're wrong!

So let me try again... a guy gets on a bus, naked. One would assume the other passengers are male and female. Let's also say they are adults, because, my goodness, think of the children!

Okay so...the women on the bus do what? Look at him? Ask for his phone number? Touch him without his permission? Laugh at him? Snap pics with their cell phones ? What are the men on the bus doing? Would they stop a woman who was trying to touch the naked man's body?
For real YOU be honest and state exactly what the women would do? And for the love of God don't just say "objectify" him because I think you might not know what the word means. You didn't look it up, did you?
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 268
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History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 10:54:06 AM
Have a can of bear spray that works pretty well....Just remember to cover your own nose and mouth and hold your breath when spraying under ANY circumstances....

Also goes through airport security like butter, looks like a can of hair spray.....

Only had to use it once, and it wasn't on a bear....Guy was so choked up that I just trotted away got in my car and took off before he even knew what happened....

Very effective....
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 269
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History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 10:55:12 AM
How about the next time one of us finds ourselves on a bus with a naked person standing there in full view, we report our reaction and pay attention to the reactions of others...but here in the real world we are talking about the real sexual abuse of people of all genders and all ages and how it's vile and should be dealt with severely? Because these stupid, made up situations are ridiculous.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 270
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 10:57:15 AM

"You are too pretty. You would be a distraction to the guys." WTF?


I've heard this a lot, particularly in construction, engineering, the oil business and so on.
 Whatsamatterbaby
Joined: 5/6/2015
Msg: 271
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 10:59:25 AM
^ Nothing wrong with a pretty man ;)
 Theophannia
Joined: 1/19/2014
Msg: 272
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 11:00:45 AM
Nope, I wont. I'll go to jail for as long as it takes to verify that he was indeed attempting to assault me, at which I will be aquitted on grounds of self defense, and he will then go to jail for assault, battery, attempted rape and whatever else. The simple facts are that a woman with some training in defending herself can kick a mans ass.

Most women won't touch a gun, learn to defend themselves, etc. When you as gender have a tendancy to be weak, you show you are PREY, and predators find prey.

 Hearton64
Joined: 12/18/2012
Msg: 273
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 11:02:09 AM
As for the comments about victims having a " victim mentality"
that's just another form of victim blaming that MUST STOP
In order to hold the perpetrator of abuse 100% for their actions
or never change the culture of violence against females.

It's bad enough that men use it to their advantage but women????


Since the early 1970s, when objections to victim-blaming entered the public discourse, victims-rights advocates have been accused of having a victim mentality—one in which we’d rather ignore personal responsibility and the culpability of women in their own victimization. Others claim that it would be better to stop considering blame at all and to think instead of the roles that each person plays in the dynamics at hand. That might work as an academic exercise, but in terms of changing culture, I think it is virtually useless.

Shifting the focus from people to systems isn’t a mentality of victimization, it’s a critique of the deeply entrenched, destructive attitudes at the heart of violence and oppression, and the first steps toward dismantling them. That is a matter of personal responsibility.

—Soraya Chemaly
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 274
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 11:02:58 AM

Remember ladies, brake fluid, lighter (Bic is more reliable), aim away from living thing, spray first, then light the spray. IF God forbid some complete retard continues to approach you after, well just re-aim. You have 9 feet of steady, well fed fire between you and them.


I am not sure where you live, but you'd want to be crystal clear on the self-defense laws!

I know you can legally protect yourself against rape, but this seems like very dangerous shit to be messing with!
 overunity
Joined: 8/16/2014
Msg: 275
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 11:10:31 AM
"Remember ladies, brake fluid, lighter (Bic is more reliable), aim away from living thing, spray first, then light the spray. IF God forbid some complete retard continues to approach you after, well just re-aim. You have 9 feet of steady, well fed fire between you and them."

Where do you buy "spray" brake fluid? LMFAO!
 Theophannia
Joined: 1/19/2014
Msg: 276
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 11:13:24 AM
Dangerous yes. Hence why it has never needed me to actually light someone up. Notice, this generally needs only the introduction, NOT the application. Most times the visual effect of the fire is enough to deter the attacker without ever TOUCHING him with the fire.

Let me put it this way, would you rather take the jail time or the rape? Hey if some idiot SAW the fireball and was dumb enough to keep going, I'll take the jail time. Still he won't have touched me. In fact in the state that he's in after being set on fire he wont want to touch or be touched by anything or anyone for a very long time.
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 277
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 11:15:15 AM
I noticed that as well.

Probably meant brake cleaner.
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