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 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 328
Women and Fake BeautyPage 14 of 18    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)
I would like to say that I have no objectified any male or female. I was merely creating a scenerio to make a point.
The naked man and woman are not real.
I repeat naked man and naked woman are not real.




Sorry girls :P
(opps did I inadvertently objectify the naked man there?)
 Cognoscenti214
Joined: 9/10/2014
Msg: 329
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 6:25:38 PM

I mean, I am having a difficult time coming up with lots of examples... or a few examples...or any examples at all...LOL But, yes it could happen based on the definition.

Okay, wait! I got one...Mrs Roper on Three's Company!


I see no reason to marginalize the similar experiences that men have. It doesn't advance the dialogue. Men get objectified all time. How bout those washboard abs? Cute butt! His pecs are awesome sauce!! Thinking that women don't objectify men on a daily basis is quite naïve.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 330
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 7:00:35 PM

Newoldgirl, you seem to be objectifying men in your comments. Is that right or did I read it incorrectly?


Only if you thought I was being sarcastic, which I was not. I sincerely believe anyone should step up to end sexual objectification of either sex.


But, the Chippendale guys are making a living just like the female strippers, hookers and escorts. Sex sells to both genders.


I never said it didn't. I merely said that in my experience as a consumer I simply don't see a large volume of ads that objectify men. I imagine that has something to do with the prevalence of the objectification of one sex over the other. I mean, do women's sports teams have scantily clad male cheerleaders now, or am I missing something?


I see no reason to marginalize the similar experiences that men have. It doesn't advance the dialogue. Men get objectified all time. How bout those washboard abs? Cute butt! His pecs are awesome sauce!! Thinking that women don't objectify men on a daily basis is quite naïve.


Sorry, are the men you speak of fitness modes? Or are they at the pool perhaps? I suppose everybody gets checked out in those settings.
Are they objectified and harassed in the work place? Are they not taken seriously because they are too handsome? Do women stare at their packages when they are trying to have a conversation? If you think that the instances of male objectification rise to the level or frequency of what women experience, you are the naive one.
 Cognoscenti214
Joined: 9/10/2014
Msg: 331
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 7:14:34 PM

Sorry, are the men you speak of fitness modes? Or are they at the pool perhaps? I suppose everybody gets checked out in those settings.
Are they objectified and harassed in the work place? Are they not taken seriously because they are too handsome? Do women stare at their packages when they are trying to have a conversation? If you think that the instances of male objectification rise to the level or frequency of what women experience, you are the naive one.


Yes, to all the questions. I never even implied that it rises to the level of what women experience. I simply said there's no reason for you to marginalize what men do go through. It's not a contest. Men and women are objectified. Let's at least acknowledge that honestly. Women clearly suffer more, thanks to a patriarchal society fomented by ignorant ass goat herders from 3500 years ago that decided a rapist would have to pay the victims father 15 shekels for 'spoiling' her, and then codified the treating of women as chattel in a snappy best seller called the Bible.

I think I have a decent understanding of the issues.
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 332
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 7:15:15 PM

Are they objectified and harassed in the work place? Are they not taken seriously because they are too handsome? Do women stare at their packages when they are trying to have a conversation? If you think that the instances of male objectification rise to the level or frequency of what women experience, you are the naive one.


Men tend to be objectified in a different way than women. Women are judged mainly on looks and men are judged on height, income level, social status, and self-confidence.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 333
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 7:31:34 PM

Women clearly suffer more, thanks to a patriarchal society


They do. Even though it's not a contest :)

I will admit to being flip about the Mrs Roper comment, but I am being very sincere when I said I had a difficult time thinking of examples, and oftentimes the female equivalent of a "dirty old man" is satirical , in part because it really is somewhat rare.

I have three sons in their twenties and one of them still lives with me. We talk about everything, so I am going to ask him about his experiences with male objectification. A younger POV will be interesting.
 Blackwood85
Joined: 5/20/2013
Msg: 334
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History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 7:33:15 PM



Some women have been sexually assaulted more than once in their lifetime, and by different men. I am not a statistician, but if a man is a sexual offender, it would make sense that he would rape/molest/ assault more than once.

So...would that mean that a smaller fraction of men could be commuting the crimes?


1 in 6 men are sexually abused before the age of 18 does that mean 1 in 6 women are sexually abusing males? Do you see how that doesn't sound right at all? And some of those men are also abused multiple times.

1 in 4 women are sexually abused but that doesn't mean their abusers are always men and if women are sexually abused more than once it's usually by the someone they know so it could be the same man or woman doing the abuse multiple times.

There's quite a few people and opponents of the sex offender registry mainly because it solves nothing because sexual abuse is rarely done by strangers. This is turning into another battle of the sexes when it shouldn't be that at all.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 335
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 7:50:37 PM
1) its been a while since I've done brakes, but I think we're confused between DOT fluid one pours into a master cylinder, and aerosol brake cleaner spray. one you fling at your aggressor (some can remove paint), the other has a chance to turn into a flame thrower.

this being said, when you end up in court, don't be surprised this all gets thrown at you as proof you knew the damage that could be done.

2) my father taught me at a young age, the best solution to a problem...is to avoid it happening. when one can, of course. Alcohol is OK in moderation, but too much can create trouble in a variety of ways.

3)the ultimate purpose of humanity is to procreate. man's organ into a woman. we men shouldn't be aiming for that ultimate purpose every moment of the day, even tho our bodies are designed to propagate the species.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 336
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 8:09:41 PM

1 in 6 men are sexually abused before the age of 18 does that mean 1 in 6 women are sexually abusing males? Do you see how that doesn't sound right at all? And some of those men are also abused multiple times.


Well, that was kind of my point. Not all stats make sense. As far as little boys go, the abusers certainly could be their mothers, stepmothers, or female caregivers but it could also be stepfathers, male caregivers, uncles, cousins.


1 in 4 women are sexually abused but that doesn't mean their abusers are always men and if women are sexually abused more than once it's usually by the someone they know so it could be the same man or woman doing the abuse multiple times.


I was questioning the number of perpetrators, not the number of incidents. I think female on female sexual violence in women over 18 is quite low, however it would make sense that it would involve women who know each other. I was assaulted by two different men, both strangers. That is why I don' think the 1 in 4 crimes/perp statistic tracks...not that it really matters, does it? I know the "bad guys" are in the minority.
 Blackwood85
Joined: 5/20/2013
Msg: 337
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History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/20/2015 8:34:15 PM
The stat itself is still skewed though.

We're essentially saying 25% of women have been sexually assaulted and 5 to 15% of boys are sexually abused.

Out of those cases 30% of the abusers are relatives, 60% are friends, acquaintances and 10% of the perpetrators are strangers.

At the same time we know the stats are skewed because male victims tend to not report their abuse so the number is probably higher, we also that females don't always report their abuse as well, at the same time it depends on how the question is phrased and what's considered an "sexual assault" as strange as it sounds, who's doing the research and who's asking the question.

These are cases that are reported but that doesn't mean they're convictions or that the accused are guilty, if I'm falsely accused of sexual assault then the girl who's accusing me is now the 1 in the 1 of 4. Not saying that 25% of women are lying but that stat could be higher or lower.
 GattoMonstrosis
Joined: 4/4/2013
Msg: 338
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History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/21/2015 5:27:12 AM

A guy's going to be Extremely physically inferior to a bus full of women. The same as a woman to a bus full of men. Lopsided for the group vs the individual.


But there is another difference too, men tend to act differently in groups than they do solo, so do women of course but with men the dynamic shift has a good bit of aggression, egging each other on and one-upmanship, locker room uber hetero posturing guy stuff, so a bus full of guys is a different animal than all of those guys taken individually.

Human beings are social animals, we take a lot of cues for social behaviour from the people around us, approval, disapproval, encouragement... the naked woman gets on the bus and a lot of those guys are thinking "Cor, i'd give her one and no mistake." They look around to see how other people are reacting and see a lot of guys crossing their legs to hide the tent and thinking the same thing, so they smile, nudge each other in the ribs, nod, wink, all the normal "What would you do eh?" stuff that goes on all the time, except here it's got a target who isn't a fantasy. Maybe some of the guys are thinking "Hey she's on the bus nekkid, maybe it's a porn vid, at the very least she must be up for it or she'd have a bag, a newspaper, something..." All it takes is one alpha male thinking "Hell yeah, i'm having that!!" and if there isn't another one thinking "Hell no, not on my watch!" then suddenly everyone has got permission to forget about everything but jumping in with the boys, before you know it you've got a feeding frenzy. Mob mentality.

The possibility that it could go horribly wrong is so frightening because it's not an outside chance, it's a real possibility. Here it's an abstract thought experiment but in daily life $hit happens, Jane might get away with it as often as not but she wouldn't get away with it all the time because when you get right down to it she's a naked woman on a bus full of men and not Jane on a bus full of men who just happens to be naked.

I don't think i'm saying this right.

Flip it another way, suppose all the guys on the bus were gay and you were the naked guy... Absolutely no worry for your ringpiece ending up the size of a railway tunnel anywhere in the back of your mind?
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 339
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/21/2015 6:47:44 AM

Human beings are social animals, we take a lot of cues for social behaviour from the people around us, approval, disapproval, encouragement..


No amount of social acceptance is an excuse for innappropriate and criminal behavior.

Your actions are the results of your upbringing, your moral standards and self sense of what is right and what is wrong.
 GattoMonstrosis
Joined: 4/4/2013
Msg: 340
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Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/21/2015 6:54:34 AM

No amount of social acceptance is an excuse for innappropriate and criminal behavior.

Your actions are the results of your upbringing, your moral standards and self sense of what is right and what is wrong.


I totally agree.
 overunity
Joined: 8/16/2014
Msg: 341
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History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/21/2015 7:16:31 AM
Msg 347 said:

"1) its been a while since I've done brakes, but I think we're confused between DOT fluid one pours into a master cylinder, and aerosol brake cleaner spray."

Shhh!
No "we're" not confused at all, lmfao again.
But don't tell the know it all's, they are positive about this. Makes taking anything else they are "sure of" suspect as well.

Even funnier is that they make non flammable aerosol brake cleaner spray too!
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 342
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/21/2015 7:17:24 AM
^^^I agree with Msg 351 as well. But social acceptance changes all of the time. At one time, anybody caught smoking or having pot was considered to be a hardened criminal with ties to the criminal underworld, and were handed stiff penalties-often, jail time. And there was a time when drunk driving was considered and treated to be no worse than getting a speeding ticket.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 343
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History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/21/2015 7:20:43 AM
There are a lot of current studies going on right now that are exploring 'mob mentality'....

That's largely due to MANY well-brought up people, who, when out in public within a larger social group, will all of a sudden experience a personality change and transform into hooligans....

It happens, and more often than we believe, I suspect....

It's interesting that groups of people tend to be more liberal with bad behaviour in general, due to a sense of not only anonymity, but also a general lack of accountability or fear of being singled out, depending on the size of the crowd....

I think we've all seen it or heard of it....

Let's forget about hypotheticals for a minute and think about the fact that I believe it was about a year ago, there were a rash of gang rapes happening on crowded buses in India....One woman, that I'm thinking of in particular, even died, and her b/f who was with her was severely beaten, but survived....

I have a hard time believing that every person on that bus though that what was happening was ok....Or at least I'd like to think they weren't....So why did not THOSE people form their own group, for safety's sake and confront the attackers?

Those are the kind of questions, regarding social 'acceptance' of the mob mentality, that have to be addressed....

People will behave in ways when in a group, that they normally wouldn't when alone....
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 344
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/21/2015 7:37:15 AM
^^^I thought it was only in India that this type of criminal activity could happen. But then, look at that case in Manitoba where a crazy guy decapitated a fellow passenger and ate parts of him on a Greyhound bus-a guy he didn't know, for no apparent reason. And yet, while he was chopping the guy's head off, nobody did anything to stop him. And to make things crazier, he was recently granted the right to leave the mental hospital without an escort, after only about 4 years in there.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 345
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History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/21/2015 7:40:02 AM
^^^^^^^^^^

Yup, excellent point.....
As far as leaving the hospital, well....don't GET me started on how the mentally ill criminals are dealt with here in Canada...

Seems like an 'all or nothing' type mentality.....
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 346
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/21/2015 8:09:09 AM

I'm sure most men in here can attest to some random chick grabbing and forcefully kissing them in a bar or a club. I'm not complaining but it's happened more than enough times and I'm not that attractive.


If you're not complaining then how is the same as one person performing a heinous act against another person?
If you're not complaining then you're not telling them to 'stop that'.

If you seriously told them to 'stop that', would they have stopped?
Or would that have cornered you and groped you even more, enjoying your attempts to get away form them?
Would you have been strong enough to get away from them if you wanted to?

Norwegian Guy tries to remove the 'fear' of this happening on the hypothetical 'naked woman on a bus' to equalize the equation of a 'naked man on the bus'. The problem is, he can't. Once the woman's fear is hypothetically removed the equation becomes null and void because it is no longer even hypothetically possible.

As for fake beauty vs real beauty - meh. If you're a fake beauty then you will tend to attract men who enjoy beauty whether artificial or natural. The human race has a lot of leeway in their sexual acceptance level; everyone has preferences and almost everyone will enjoy a sexual relationship with someone just a bit out of their boundaries. It's only when the otherwise compatible extremes meet (he's uber-natural, she has her cosmetic surgon as her ICE call), that problems occur.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 347
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/21/2015 8:55:18 AM
its true, OU...it helps to let people talk. they reveal so much. i'd just hate for someone to get a false sense of security from poor information. then again, that might be taking too much for granted. but sometimes, planning for failure...succeeds.

life is nasty, brutish, and short. men and women get victimized. watch episodes of Madmen and you get the idea that things are better than they used to be. but there's still work to be done, and we can only be the change we wish would occur. the rest of the world has to take care of itself.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 348
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/21/2015 10:47:33 AM
quote] We're essentially saying 25% of women have been sexually assaulted and 5 to 15% of boys are sexually abused.

Girls and boys would be a more realistic comparison. Children in NA are abused at a disgusting rate and the perps are of both genders (not to mention those mothers who fail to protect children under their care from male assaults).

You would have to compare assault on adult males and females for the stats to make sense. Also, you mentioned that the specifics of the sex acts differ. Rape is generally considered to be penetration, yet a substantial proportion of male on male assault involves forced oral sex.

Yes, if everyone would come forward we would have a clearer idea. Personally, I know many women who did not report, and there are also many, many instances where the crime itself has been thwarted by the victim getting away, or witnesses coming by at an opportune moment.


Norwegian Guy tries to remove the 'fear' of this happening on the hypothetical 'naked woman on a bus' to equalize the equation of a 'naked man on the bus'. The problem is, he can't. Once the woman's fear is hypothetically removed the equation becomes null and void because it is no longer even hypothetically possible.


Norwegian Guy almost always tries to flip the female/male role with limited success. I get why he does it. What’s good for the goose...It is apt when in certain situations like job, who pays for what, and so on. It simply does not work when it comes to sexual objectification because objectification is about what you see and want, and the media plays a huge role in this. Sure, there is some change coming, but for the most part it is the cliche pretty woman posing on the sports car. In other words, it's historically and predominantly it is geared toward men.

When men see an attractive woman they are MORE likely to think “I’d like to **** her”. Sometimes they don’t even look at the whole woman…”I’d like to tap that ass!” This is the very essence of sexual objectification. MOST women are not merely attracted to nice bums or penises; they are attracted to men.

Furthermore, while men can be sexually assaulted, most men don’t think twice about their personal safely if they find themselves alone with a woman. There is some overlap to be sure, but more often than not ( and yes I KNOW not always) men are bigger and stronger. Hence, the fear. Which is why threat level cannot be compared
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 349
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History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/21/2015 11:56:50 AM
A lot of men have been sexually used/abused when they were young, a lot of these men will act like it was cool, like all males enjoy and and hope for sexual encounters even as kids. You will find many of these men in places like AA, NA, jail, prison, on dating sites making statements that repel many, because many of these men don't put the two things together. Women are free to talk about the abuse they've suffered, men are suppose to stuff it and/or make it out like it was a hot time. The threat level is very close actually, it's just that men don't often see the correlation between the two things and spend a lot of time making messes of relationships while blaming the women they are with, while the women blame the men for their problems, when in fact, like is seeking like.
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 350
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/21/2015 1:12:25 PM

When men see an attractive woman they are MORE likely to think “I’d like to **** her”. Sometimes they don’t even look at the whole woman…”I’d like to tap that ass!” This is the very essence of sexual objectification. MOST women are not merely attracted to nice bums or penises; they are attracted to men.


Not necessarily, women may objectify one attribute about a man such as "Wow, look at how tall he is!", or they may only judge based on his social status and income, not on his looks, intelligence, or personality.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 351
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/21/2015 1:21:07 PM

women may objectify one attribute about a man such as


Yeah, they do. I love it when they do that. It's even worse when they stare, and then the smirk, and then they touch.

Naughty, naughty women.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 352
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/21/2015 2:32:15 PM

Not necessarily, women may objectify one attribute about a man such as "Wow, look at how tall he is!", or they may only judge based on his social status and income, not on his looks, intelligence, or personality.


We were discussing sexual objectification, which has a very specific definition, and does not include admiring intelligence or personality. It can be hurtful to the people being objectified, or seen as a collection of body parts.

However, if you are saying that women judge men on the things you listed then yes you are totally correct. Most women judge men on some or all of the traits you mentioned on a regular basis.
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