Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Cognoscenti214
Joined: 9/10/2014
Msg: 78
Women and Fake BeautyPage 4 of 18    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)
Men and women will never find a true common ground, and misogyny will never be vanquished, until women stop painting their faces. It has the subliminal effect of telling men you are shallow and have low self-esteem, which allows them to justify marginalizing you, objectifying you, and paying you less, among other social injustices.

Seriously, I get it. Just like all of us I was raised in a culture where women paint their faces and ruin their feet in high heels, all to attract a man. I have never known a place where women look natural and feel good about it. So yes, I look at a woman in makeup and - consciously - respond positively to it. We've all been indoctrinated to do so. But again, I also look at that woman and wonder why she is so insecure. Why is she so desperate to attract a man that she debases herself in this way? You're walking around in 4 inch heels. Why? To make your legs look 'sexier'. And most men will respond to it on a conscious level - but we're thinking to ourselves "what kind of fool would do this to themselves?"

Men and women are naturally different. We can embrace the differences - in temperament, worldview, and perspective - without exaggerating them beyond all reason, in a way that continues the legacy of women as less than men, weaker than men, more vain than men.

Just sayin'.
 kj521
Joined: 8/8/2012
Msg: 79
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 12:50:21 PM
Mr. Cognoscenti.....

"It has the subliminal effect of telling men you are shallow and have low self-esteem, which allows them to justify marginalizing you, objectifying you, and paying you less, among other social injustices."


That subliminal effect? That is on the men who choose to perceive women who wear make up and heels that way.

Perhaps.....they should be the ones to own it and change their misperceptions. :)
 danceaddicted
Joined: 10/26/2014
Msg: 80
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 1:16:23 PM
I need help, how do you send msg?
 Cognoscenti214
Joined: 9/10/2014
Msg: 81
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 1:23:20 PM

That subliminal effect? That is on the men who choose to perceive women who wear make up and heels that way.

Perhaps.....they should be the ones to own it and change their misperceptions. :)


But it's not a misperception. Putting on makeup and wearing high heels is an artificial - and superficial - means of promoting ones self. How about personality? Character? Integrity? Humor? Intelligence? These are the things most women seek in a man. These are the important foundations of a relationship, are they not? Believe it or not, men are seeking the same qualities. A pretty face only speaks to the vestigial reptilian brain of men - you know, the attribute of men that women generally despise. A pretty mind is so much more substantial.

I'm sorry, but women have been duped for centuries that it's their physical appearance that gives them the most value. That's a logical consequence of a patriarchal culture that looks down on women as 2nd class humans. I merely point out the obvious problem of women emphasizing artificial attractiveness. Believe me, if women today made a decision to stop wearing makeup and heels, men would adjust. Y'all already know we'd hump a knot hole in a tree if it was available. And in time, men would have to evaluate women on their worthwhile attributes, instead of how effectively they work that eye liner and LBD. Value being physically attractive? Absolutely. Eat healthy, work out. Painted faces? It has negative consequences already pointed out. And it's completely unnecessary.

BTW, you look gorgeous. Only you can decide if that's really working for you or not.
 shirleywonton01
Joined: 4/30/2015
Msg: 82
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 1:40:33 PM

Men and women will never find a true common ground, and misogyny will never be vanquished, until women stop painting their faces. It has the subliminal effect of telling men you are shallow and have low self-esteem, which allows them to justify marginalizing you, objectifying you, and paying you less, among other social injustices.


Even though you bring up a very interesting and valid point basically exposing the fact that misogyny and women dolling themselves up are inter-related, I don't see the fake beauty part as being more than a small percentage of the problem. A man who really loves women will loving ask his partner not to paint herself and ruin her legs and understand she is being programmed by billions of dollars each year in advertising to create the fake enhance woman reality.
 SLAFFA
Joined: 8/13/2007
Msg: 83
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 2:21:40 PM
Almost any "woman" over 13 or 14 will have the OPTION of attracting many more men by CHOOSING to use makeup or clothing that accentuates whatever are her best ASSets, whatever they might be. What a woman does with all those "drooling" men is entirely up to her.

Trying to place the blame for this "state of affairs" on women and/or the Beauty industry is just plain madness. It's Mother Nature at work. Living in a permanent tailspin because of the way Humans are wired is a prime recipe for an unhappy life. This is not some crazy fad that is going to go away.

How many folks do you think would watch if the VS models performed their TV show all wearing housecoats? Or do some of you think that no woman with a lick of sense would watch such a show "exploiting" women regardless of what they are wearing? " [It's just another mindless TV show that people can CHOOSE to watch] I'm willing to bet it's a goodly portion based on many of the threads here/the Sex Forum.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 84
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 3:12:58 PM
Theophannia- Some people have a tendency to label and put others into boxes, something I rebel against every chance I get.
The resentment you feel gives these people power over you that you are giving to them and some of these people only know you from a profile and some pictures.
They don't really know you at all.
If the labels bother you that much, being "summed up" that way (as you put it), stop saying you are a model.
However, I hope you don't do that.
OLD is many things, but one thing I have discovered is the hubris it brings out in people who are really cowards.
Who is someone that has never met you to think they can sum you up in that one way?
They can try, but they will fail if you realize that they just don't matter that much in the whole of things that is your life and who you really are.
One of the hang ups that haunted me for a very long time was caring too much what other people thought of me.
I went into therapy after my divorce and I had a wonderful counselor that gave me a serious reality check when it comes to that.
He asked me, "How much sense does it make for you to be so invested in what people think of you?"
Then he said "There are people that matter and people that don't and unless you want to drive yourself crazy, you are going to have to know the difference. Your family matters, your friends and your employer matters. Anyone else doesn't really know you all that well, so why would you care what they think?"
Those questions, those statements took root.
I realized he was right.
I'm not 100% cured, I doubt I ever will be, but the notion of you wasting time being resentful of someone who has a knee jerk reaction about you, that only read your profile and saw your modeling pictures, caused me to reach out to you.
Don't do that!
It's a time waster and in the grand scheme of things, this is your life and who are they to judge?
They aren't, unless you let them, so don't.
One of the BEST things that ever happened to me was freeing myself from worrying about people that don't really know me and what they think and focusing on those that do and knowing the difference.
 sigungq
Joined: 1/4/2013
Msg: 85
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 3:21:35 PM

eternityboreme wrote:

I'd consider cosmetic surgery to fix a few lines myself, down the road, when those lines become prevalent and in abundance. I'd fix my older lady's jowl by then when it becomes present, too. Maybe a nose job...


I'm thinking there's no amount of cosmetic surgery that can fix me.
 junipermoon
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 86
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 3:30:16 PM

I don't care if what you're doing makes you "fake" or not, you are one damn fine looking woman.


well, thank you kindly, handsome sir.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 87
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 5:35:19 PM

But it's not a misperception. Putting on makeup and wearing high heels is an artificial - and superficial - means of promoting ones self. How about personality? Character? Integrity? Humor? Intelligence? These are the things most women seek in a man. These are the important foundations of a relationship, are they not? Believe it or not, men are seeking the same qualities. A pretty face only speaks to the vestigial reptilian brain of men - you know, the attribute of men that women generally despise. A pretty mind is so much more substantial.


True, and if your only thinking of humans as mental beings as oppose to part of the animal kingdom you make a great point, but men tend to seek women who display feminine qualities PHYSICALLY historically since men (as part of the animal kingdom ) seek out the healthiest of the species. The so called STUFF they wear or display are just cultural expressions of that which society might articulate but they are no more or no less. And it varies. If there wasn't mass media you would find even greater differences.


I'm sorry, but women have been duped for centuries that it's their physical appearance that gives them the most value.


Well that is dependent on what the guys WANT and women want. Women actually do many of the things they do to show off to their own gender peers. Heck, half of what they do isn't even noticed by men half the time but other women do notice.



That's a logical consequence of a patriarchal culture that looks down on women as 2nd class humans.


Or a logical consequence of any society that celebrates gender differences and doesn't have the competitive nature of the anglo word where being different is somehow considered as one worst than the other, therefore a GAP is perceived to exist(and very well might exist) .. Believe it or not there are plenty of societies that celebrate gender roles and both genders are jumping though hoops fulfilling their roles with content . Possibly you just NEVER been to these societies? Come to NYC you might open your eyes.

Another thing, some so called patriarchal societies(like mine;)) actually think they are the only ones that actually value women. You think all American women feel valued on their dates where the guy makes her open the door to get into the car? and lets her open it to leave and guy drives off like a banshee almost killing her? or tell her you going dutch? or don't pull our her chair, etc, et, etc. Trust me, I know plenty of girls who won't date guys who want total equally( my nieces,etc). Their very words are "they are boring", "they don't act like men" , etc, etc.


I merely point out the obvious problem of women emphasizing artificial attractiveness. Believe me, if women today made a decision to stop wearing makeup and heels, men would adjust.Y'all already know we'd hump a knot hole in a tree if it was available.


Well I would bet your right, but that says something more about lack of qualifiers that men have. I mean it is pretty sad if men are humping holes in trees. ;) Incidentally women on these very forums often state men shouldn't just be desperate all the time. Women have standards , so why shouldn't men?

How about men having a long list of qualifiers spanning the superficial to the spiritual? Maybe the way to go isn't to have men drop present qualifiers they have, but to just add more! Because that would be more in line with the qualifiers of todays women....the ones younger than you , and myself for that matter. It is a different world indeed!




It has the subliminal effect of telling men you are shallow and have low self-esteem


Maybe some men. For me if they didn't I would think they have low self esteem. In fact I would probably leave a date if a gal didn't have heels on( and mini skirt/ dress depending on event) and showed a lack of effort. After all I wear the sport coat/ tailored suit with the pocket square to play my part in the dance. Dating is a ritual, and rituals have rules. I think KJ calls it a dance;).



I have never known a place where women look natural and feel good about it.



I think Leonidas said it best in the 300:
Spartan King Leonidas: "Clearly you don't know our women!"

They will wear 5-6 inch heels to walk the dog and go to the laundromat when there is 4 inches of snow outside. And they would hit you in the face with them if you told them NOT to wear them.

However this winter with all the ice, I saw the practical usage off them....they stick right into the ice and never slip(while I was on my a$$ multiple times).



BTW, you look gorgeous. Only you can decide if that's really working for you or not.


Yes she certainly is and a great new photo to boot! Perhaps if I dropped my misogynist ways she would talk to me! One can dream! ;)


I got a good idea..why don't we accept and like everyone for the choices they make when it doesn't hurt anyone?
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 88
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 6:30:43 PM

In fact I would probably leave a date if a gal didn't have heels on( and mini skirt/ dress depending on event) and showed a lack of effort.


What do you mean, leave? Like if she showed up to meet you on first date sans high heels, you would end the date early? Or would you just not ask her out again? Is she expected to wear heels on every date?
 Whatsamatterbaby
Joined: 5/6/2015
Msg: 89
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 6:51:58 PM
^ Judging by the mandatory combination of a mini skirt and high heels, I'm assuming he meant "date" in the Woman of the Night sense. In which case the guy is entitled to what he paid for, no?
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 90
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 7:38:52 PM
Well No, I wouldn't leave her there, but I would end the date early. I can state that if I am going somewhere dressed up she would already have known the proper attire for the event(I am crystal clear when I talk), and just was careless to make the effort. Thank god it never has happened to me(that i remember)


Judging by the mandatory combination of a mini skirt and high heels, I'm assuming he meant "date" in the Woman of the Night sense. In which case the guy is entitled to what he paid for, no?



Love your humor :)...Well with the cost of going out in NYC, yes one can certainly say I am paying for it lol. But by your statement, it seems you are implying that if someone has a requirements that they have to pay for it or else they have no right?I think we call it entitlements on this forum. But don't we ALL have requirements? And we have ALL the right to see or NOT see someone based on our own expectations being met.
Shallow..YES. But a fact of life.

LH made a whole thread about a guy walking in who smelled ..remember? That was important to her.

Well , look at it from my point of view and you will see it is quite rationally a disappointment if she showed a lack of effort. I dated people from where I live most of my life and from my own ethnic groups. The majority of residents here are/were either Southern Europeans(Italian/Greek) or Eastern Euro's(Russian/Ukrainians, Czechs,etc).

Culturally our women from childhood are educated/brainwashed/conditioned/ whatever you want to call it to basically dress to the 9's..certainly on a date when trying to get to know a guy. As I said , they dress this way to walk the dog lol.

So if a gal was to show up on a date dress 'less than to impress' there certainly would be something amiss. Her behavior doing so would certainly make her atypical and her friends, my friends, our families would think she was trying to scare me off to say the least. So yeah it would be a sign of disrespect and perhaps non interest from the beginning. In any case maybe embarrassing for myself even(depending where we are).

Sure are there exceptions? Yeah but I think I would have known beforehand if she was a liberal , progressive hipster type lol. I tend to avoid them!
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 91
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 7:52:02 PM
90% of American blondes are bottle blondes. As a friend of mine pointed out when we were in Little Italy, men still go crazy when they enter a room. I don't think fake matters.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 92
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 7:53:28 PM

Putting on makeup and wearing high heels is an artificial - and superficial - means of promoting ones self. How about personality? Character? Integrity? Humor? Intelligence?


Wow, dude. How shallow. Do you shave. That is shallow. Why not be a man and have a beard. Do you wear a tie? What does a tie is, but some bow that evolved into this thing you call a tie and looks like a noose. Do you starch your shirts? Same thing dude. You wear cologne.

Everything you said there's something just like that that men do to get women. We are not naturally built up with huge arm muscles, so we go to gyms and slave for two to there hours to look like that.

Everything you recriminate about women. We have something we do to achieve the same. So stop being such an arrogant b.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 93
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 7:56:25 PM
Inner - They SAY all of that but I know no men ( friends, family, personal) that wanted a woman "au naturel" until he had her and then didn't want her to be attractive to other men.
 Whatsamatterbaby
Joined: 5/6/2015
Msg: 94
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 7:56:38 PM
Fake boobs? They're unbelievable looking. But have you ever been hugged by someone with a pair of those babies? Hugs shouldn't hurt :(

I suspect women just get them to impress men :P
 clooneystutor
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 95
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 8:31:26 PM
Damn, so much for the rated G pics...
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 96
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 9:02:53 PM

Wow, dude. How shallow. Do you shave. That is shallow. Why not be a man and have a beard. Do you wear a tie? What does a tie is, but some bow that evolved into this thing you call a tie and looks like a noose. Do you starch your shirts? Same thing dude. You wear cologne.

Everything you said there's something just like that that men do to get women. We are not naturally built up with huge arm muscles, so we go to gyms and slave for two to there hours to look like that.

Everything you recriminate about women. We have something we do to achieve the same. So stop being such an arrogant b.


LOL---Actually based on his views of the patriarchy and his disdain of cultural norms to impress, like maybe wearing cologne, I thought for a second he was possibly LH's former date. You know the one who showed up and smelled?

He will probably read your post and call you a sexist pig! I think your GF will think that is a compliment though;)
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 97
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 9:09:52 PM
@Clooney....

Yeah...no sh!t!!! LOL

Any way...dont wear high heels, they are terrible for your back, and ankles and knees and so on....My skin is SO sensitive that wearing any kind of foundation and even most mascaras and eye shadows lipsticks etc. has proven to be more trouble than they're worth...

Despite all of that I still have managed to dress appropriately while out on a 'fancy date'....

Any guy who thinks that I'm going to wear 4inch heels and mince about is going to be disappointed,....NOT interested in hurting myself in any way in order to appeal to anyone....

As Popeye said. "I yam what I yam".... ;-)
 cassie_smiles
Joined: 5/13/2015
Msg: 98
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 9:25:53 PM
"Yeah....no shit!!!! LOL"

Too funny. I didn't know you could have pictures like that but I guess it complies.
 clooneystutor
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 99
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 9:30:40 PM
So...

What happens with John Holmes posts his nude in this thread?

Oy vey...

the double standards :(
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 100
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 9:54:04 PM

I have never known a place where women look natural and feel good about it.


Um, yes, I have, I'm part of that culture, I'm french. We take pride in looking and being as natural as possible. If makeup is to be used, it's mascara, lipgloss and a little bit of blush. The "play" is in the clothing, it has to fit right, almost custom made, or you don't wear it. Accessorizing is minimal and carefully placed, like a balancing act, something has to pop but it can only be one thing.

The biggest thing is skin care, so it eliminates makeup as makeup clogs pores. The only time I wear make up is when going to an event like a party with the higher ups, rooftops, some dates, interviews, or I wake up more pale than usual. In my regular everyday life, I do not wear makeup because I moisturize, I apply sunscreen every 2 hours, because the sun is an aging agent. My skin is fabulous, It's the most important thing to me. I have no significant scars, marks, spots, discoloration, damage, etc. I go for a Korean body scrub monthly, spas twice a month minimum for saunas, facials, baths, aroma therapy, and taking a nap in the most comfortable recliner ever, etc. I drink 2 liters of water daily, 9 0z lemon water, and 9 oz green tea, like clockwork.

The largest organ in the body is the skin, and it's visible to everyone, healthy skin glows, has a natural radiance. Everyone wants to touch it, brush their hands over it, have some form of contact. It was one of the things my ex boyfriend loved and so do photographers, because they don't have to touch up your skin so that the picture comes out better.

My hair is naturally curly and parts changes color on its own, so do my eyes. I don't fight with anything to conform to strandard. This is the hair I was born with and I take very good care of it, only use professional products for my hair type and texture. I follow the natural order of original parts and make the best out of what I have.

So yeah, it is possible to look natural and feel good about it, everyday.
 LetitiaLeGrande
Joined: 3/22/2015
Msg: 101
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/17/2015 10:41:29 PM
cognoscenti

Men and women have painted their faces for eons and men have also worn wigs and jewellery and fancy dress.

Some of us like the decoration and colour of cosmetics and has nothing to do with low self esteem. Men are visual and react to certain cues like red lipstick and stiletto heels as well as sexy clothing..... Some women like the attention and the power they feel when men notice them. Men are visual and react to the superficial. Women know this. Ogling boobs that are fake, reacting to the blonde hair for instance, that is there by chemical process. Doesnt matter.

However you would be surprised to learn that women do not always dress or make up for men by the way.

I for one never tortured myself with impossible heels that only cause discomfort but worn a nice high heel because I like the look of them. The overweight woman limping around in stilettos and longing to fling them off as soon as she reaches home, I agree is rather ridiculous.

That men feel hate or despise women is their issue and has complex reasons. Men objectify and marginalise women because of their need to demean, feel a certain power and to be superior...
 Eternityboreme
Joined: 3/18/2015
Msg: 102
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/18/2015 2:46:42 AM

But it's not a misperception. Putting on makeup and wearing high heels is an artificial - and superficial - means of promoting ones self. How about personality? Character? Integrity? Humor? Intelligence? These are the things most women seek in a man. These are the important foundations of a relationship, are they not? Believe it or not, men are seeking the same qualities. A pretty face only speaks to the vestigial reptilian brain of men - you know, the attribute of men that women generally despise. A pretty mind is so much more substantial.


Some of us do have it all: beauty (natural, too) and brains.
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  >