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 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 203
Women and Fake BeautyPage 9 of 18    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)

There is no consensus on defining what type of clothing, how much bare skin is displayed or what facial expressions constitutes justification for the objectification of the opposite sex. And there should not be, imo.


A little boy will be slapped in Florida as soon as I arrive, just outside the airport, I don't want to hear it, he was thinking about it, I can smell it.

What saddens me the most is the level of trauma one endures when repeatedly treated or seen as a sex object rather than a human being. I don't want to hear anything about me being busty and bottom heavy, it is not my fault and it should not work against me. I shouldn't be in fear of losing weight, but such reminds me of having been taken advantage of in two occasions when I was slimmer, and it gets me thinking my fat protects me. It's sad I know, but these are the things that happen when such occurs, one devises ways to cope. It is now that I am developing the courage to look the way I used to, not be afraid to see the needle go left on the scale, and stop feeling like I'm going to become "the last temptation of Christ" if I go back to a size 8 or 10, lmao
 cassie_smiles
Joined: 5/13/2015
Msg: 204
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 11:47:46 AM

There is no consensus on defining what type of clothing, how much bare skin is displayed or what facial expressions constitutes justification for the objectification of the opposite sex. And there should not be, imo.


I agree as well, as long as the person being objectified isn't a minor.

We are all responsible for how we present ourselves, what we aren't responsible for is how be are looked at by others. And looking at the opposite sex and drooling is not just a male behavior and I will admit that I turn my head and gaze at a good looking man, I will do a double take on a good looking man in shorts, I might even check his "package". Women look at men. We also look at other women and objectify them, judge them, look down on them or admire them. We are no damn different than men, we look, we check it out, we check out men and we check out women. And if you don't, I think you are lying.

The difference is that more men make comments or whistle or wink and we don't grab ass or make rude comments (for the most part). Us women are just more subtle, unless we turn to our gal pal and say "look at that skank".

I think most of us just want to look good, look good for ourselves and who ever we happen to be around. And yes, look good for the opposite sex. Fake? Its a choice and not a requirement for anyone.


What saddens me the most is the level of trauma one endures when repeatedly treated or seen as a sex object rather than a human being.


I've not had a problem with this and I have a very nice chest. The odd time I was treated like a sex object, I ignored it and moved on and it had no bearing on my life what so ever. Maybe I'm just a stronger person and deflect the crud that is thrown. We have a choice to react or ignore. I ignore the ignorant.
 Hearton64
Joined: 12/18/2012
Msg: 205
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 12:14:37 PM
"Fake beauty "??

Anyone who can't say they wear no makeup
Never dye their hair or use hair extensions,
Never wear high heels,push up bras nor
Had any cosmetic surgery or Botox can't claim
To being authentically or naturally beautiful.

I can say that...but I believe a majority of women don't
Consider themselves pretty without all that crap!

So OP you are FAR from alone in your "fakeness" !!!

You don't have to try so hard!!!
It's our imperfections that make us beautiful!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GXoZLPSw8U8&autoplay=1
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 206
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 12:23:40 PM

What saddens me the most is the level of trauma one endures when repeatedly treated or seen as a sex object rather than a human being.


I have experienced everything from being told I was "too pretty" for a job I had applied for, to being seriously assaulted. People will never, never, never "get" how it feels to be treated as an object unless they have personally experienced it. God bless the men who actually TRY instead of just throwing the blame back on women.


I shouldn't be in fear of losing weight, but such reminds me of having been taken advantage of in two occasions when I was slimmer, and it gets me thinking my fat protects me...I am developing the courage to look the way I used to, not be afraid to see the needle go left on the scale, and stop feeling like I'm going to become "the last temptation of Christ" if I go back to a size 8 or 10, lmao


I know, right? You better cover up one way or another, perhaps with a homemade "fat parka" or maybe a nice turtleneck, because if you don't you are "flaunting" your body, and men are simply weak victims of biology.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 207
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 12:28:07 PM
I shouldn't be in fear of losing weight, but such reminds me of having been taken advantage of in two occasions when I was slimmer...
---------------------
Along those same lines, people should seek to be less than they could be because someone might take advantage of something about them? I'm sorry, but the "trauma" of being objectified is no different than what all sorts of people go through for being who they are. How you feel about anything is something you and only you can control or change. If someone objectifies you, then instead of getting in a snit about it, you can just as easily take advantage of that and see it as another person's weakness.
 kj521
Joined: 8/8/2012
Msg: 208
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 12:33:05 PM
Ms. Belle and Ms. Newgrl....great posts.

This is the point I have been trying to make with Mr. Tucker.

It does not matter what age, clothing, amount of make up, body language you convey, or body shape or size in order to be the target of objectification.
And it is more common for this to occur with women at a much younger age than men.

I refuse to change my style of dress in an attempt to try and control the perceptions and actions of another.
There are too many people in this World to try to please them all...and I have no desire to.

And it is not my style to judge people based on what they do or don't wear....what cosmetic surgeries they have or have not had....

Ya know why? Cause there are enough people out there who will.... :)
 Peppermint_Petunias
Joined: 3/30/2012
Msg: 209
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 12:51:03 PM

fat protects me

No it doesnt.
But many think the same thing.

You would have been assaulted anyway by whatever sick Fawk did that to you.
Fat people are sexually assaulted every day. Ugly people and old people are assaulted also.


If someone objectifies you, then instead of getting in a snit about it

Ok just stop, as you have no idea what you are talking about on the subject of women and being objectified.
Snit? Good grief

Go write a paper on being a woman wont you?

Obviously you haven't ever been "objectified"/discriminated against/molested/not promoted/undermined for not "playing the game"because you have a vagina and breasts.

It would be like saying I know how a 24 year old black guy wearing a hoodie in the south or NYC feels like .
Dam, dont they get in such a "snit" sometimes?

No snits people..its unbecoming and not productive.
Shoot me. just shoot me at least a hundred times, please.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 210
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 12:59:24 PM
Oh, geez. Everyone seems to think their own issues are so overwhelmingly traumatic. Take a look around and you won't have to look far to find people who would happily trade your problems for theirs. For that matter, I wouldn't mind being objectified. What someone else thinks is not my problem.
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 211
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 1:23:09 PM
Consider that 1 in 3 women will be sexually assaulted. Count how many women you know and recognize that of your mother, sister, and grandmother - one got raped. I don't know about you, but that much violence against women puts me in a snit too.

It's not what someone thinks of you; it's what someone does to you.
 clemtuckerofcourse
Joined: 5/7/2015
Msg: 212
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 1:31:29 PM
Ms. KJ521, I never suggested you change anything. Besides, I don't think it is so much a matter of how a woman dresses as much how how she holds and handles herself that is the cue Men use to judge them. There is no question that some women are far more likely to try to manipulate through their sexuality than others.

Regardless, we have to live in the world that we have and not the world we wish we had. Women have had to deal with these issues forever and in virtually all societies. Things are much better for them in modern times than they have been in the past, at least in the Westernized nations. I think things are more difficult in Isis land for women than here, but even in places like India.

Still, nothing is going to change the sexual dynamics between the sexes. Not wishing on a star, not hoping or praying or legislating or ordering. We must all live with the hands we have been dealt in life. I can think of worse things to happen to people than being born female, at least in the United States. I don't really worry about the small amount of sexual harassment women need to deal with as they live their lives. Most of them learn to deal with it and do just fine. Some even become CEO's, Senators and maybe Presidents. And then some become embittered about life, despise men, rail against them on POF message boards, end up divorced and alone, and wonder why they can not reach success in a long term relationship. Some introspection is obviously in order in those cases. Blaming those terrible boys when they grew up or the way men are now is not going to help them navigate a successful life. Men are not going to change their inherent nature because women want them to. At best they will change their behavior. But even there, studies done at Harvard Business School in the MBA program showed even "Harvard men" do not always behave properly towards women (and according to some of the women here, would obviously be considered dangerous). http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/08/education/harvard-case-study-gender-equity.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Its a tough, tough world but its the only one we have. Choose to Be Happy.

2ufo, your solution is to have nothing to do with Men. Nobody is forcing you to have a male partner. You are not going to change the world so change only you. Don't date. Don't talk to strange men. Come home and lock your door before it gets dark. Get a large dog. And if your sexual orientation is open to a change . . . try other women.
 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 213
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 1:37:39 PM

For example, if someone refused to eat at a place where they serve Coke or Pepsi products? .... So dinning in such places=supporting what they stand for. You'd also think she's high maintenance?

I would yes. Basically Coke or Pepsi (and virtually all places that have soda/pop as an option) covers movie theaters, ball games, most restaurants big & small, etc. Hell yeah that's high-maintenance to Refuse to go those places. Having a political agenda doesn't change the level of maintenance of the situation. If it's that extreme, if anything, it shows there's a lot more issues that hasn't been revealed to them yet.


"Women who want respect from guys as opposed to attention generally are not those women who are wearing thong bikinis on the beach, or pole dancing, nor do they have profiles on POF where they do their best to accentuate their breasts in a provocative pose, say lying on a bed with a seductive look on their face."

And you know this how? Can one not desire both?

One can desire both, of course! That's what makes those silly profiles out there so amusing... a gal laying on her bed in nightie-like like attire positioned in inviting poses licking the lips, coupled with a nice t!t-shot looking up at the camera (focus on breasts; angle makes face look thinner) -- and then in the profile complaining about how "I'm NOT looking for sex, FWB, or one night stands! I'm looking for a Relationship! I want a man who's going to spend time with, is romantic, and is going to spend time with me and my 3 sons!" The two very strong Conflicting messages.

Of course everyone's going to want respect. That's just a basic thing, which has nothing to do with whether they're a wild-child or not. I think the concept is Expecting a high amount of respect on a level that doesn't fit what they're projecting in their profile... or better said, being seen as someone they're NOT projecting in their profile (and IRL).
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 214
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 1:47:19 PM
Wait a second, I was not trying to do a "woe is me" sorta spin to it all, I simply put forth an example of the inner workings of such absolute acquittal on the basis of "boy will be boys". I'm not in anyway assessing that my past issues are greater than anyone else's, but because they are mine, they are valid, just as anyone else's. Let's not try to play blame the victim or that there are people out there going through much worse, that was not that point.

My point is that these actions deemed nuances and reduced to the lowest form of flattery are being dismissed as child's play. But what about the person to whom this was done? Your ice cream cone falling on the floor without a lick may be forgivable and likely forgettable, but someone violating your body, your privacy, your space, your intimacy, is something one likely cannot forget even if forgiven. For all we know this experience may result in her folding her arms near teenagers if they approach her, as she cannot assess their intent, but she can block immediate access.

Certain memories leave deep impressions, I still remember the color, the type of trench coat, the hat, socks and shoes of the man who flashed me across the train platform when I was 8 years of age. Children are not equipped to handle disappointments from adults as readily as another adult.

Peppermint,

I am aware that there are no specific parameters for victimization and that sick people have no such standards, but there is a difference between twisting one neck, and twisting 50. The certain proportions tend to pull more attention, has more visibility, and are more likely to become targets. I mean that with the utmost respect you deserve.
 kj521
Joined: 8/8/2012
Msg: 215
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 2:06:01 PM
Mr. Tucker....

This I wholeheartedly agree with....

"Its a tough, tough world but its the only one we have. Choose to Be Happy."

Being victimized is not a choice.....but being a victim....in your state of mind is....



And just when I think it is safe to go in the waters with you.....out comes this!


" I really worry about the small amount of sexual harassment women need to deal with as they live their lives. Most of them learn to deal with it and do just fine."


What? Really? Could you define "small amount" ? What would be the threshold amount that a woman needs to deal with before they don't "do just fine" ?
 clemtuckerofcourse
Joined: 5/7/2015
Msg: 216
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 2:11:56 PM

What? Really? Could you define "small amount" ? What would be the threshold amount that a woman needs to deal with before they don't "do just fine"


I would define it as not enough to have a material impact on a woman's general well being. This amount will change depending on the woman of course. Some budding women made fun of at eleven years old may have been so scarred for life from that experience that she has never overcome her male hating handicap. But the great majority of women seem to do just fine so I must assume that whatever she dealt with was a "small amount".

I am not worried about women, but I am worried about Men. Women do so fine in fact, there are far more women than men in college today, as men are being left further and further behind . . . ignored by their teachers who don't get boys from grammar school on up. Something needs to be done about this. I don't see men whining on this board how they are mistreated by their grammar school teachers . . . but they are. And the impact is huge. So many men have been set up for failure it seems. And yet the women are speeding right along for college degrees and success.
 DietFree
Joined: 11/1/2012
Msg: 217
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 2:12:16 PM

What? Really? Could you define "small amount" ?

I think it means that he only does it once a week.
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 218
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 2:16:47 PM

Still, nothing is going to change the sexual dynamics between the sexes.....don't really worry about the small amount of sexual harassment women need to deal with as they live their lives.


You say that nothing will change, so why bother and you choose to continue the... no, you choose to allow women to continue to be victims? Because, after all, it's no skin off your nose and hey, "she deserved it"? Nothing will change about 1 in 3 US women being sexually assaulted? I choose to believe that I can make a change and so I try to make a change. You can enjoy the status quo - it is, after all, to your benefit in many ways.


Its a tough, tough world but its the only one we have. Choose to Be Happy.

2ufo, your solution is to have nothing to do with Men. Nobody is forcing you to have a male partner. You are not going to change the world so change only you. Don't date. Don't talk to strange men. Come home and lock your door before it gets dark. Get a large dog. And if your sexual orientation is open to a change . . . try other women.


I am happy and my solution is not to isolate myself away from men or women or new experiences or be afraid of walking in the dark. Why do you think my solution is to have nothing to do with men? Are you projecting on me your own solution to have nothing to do with women in any meaningful way? I simply don't have dealings with men who are disrespectful to people different than themselves.

I laugh at your assertion that I will not change the world... I do change it. I, also, change -- it's an inevitable side effect of life and growth (hopefully gaining a bit of maturity). My concept of 'a better world' is simply not your concept of 'a better world'.

I have a dog - she doesn't have to be big, merely ferocious.

As for talking to 'strange men'... all the men I've ever met, known, kissed, loved, touched, laughed with and agonized over have been 'strange men'. I don't assume that they will be ugly in personality simply because they are men.
 Peppermint_Petunias
Joined: 3/30/2012
Msg: 219
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 3:15:55 PM
Belle wasnt being dramatic and if you are a victim of something horrible one day and cant do a dam thing about it, maybe you will get it.

I certainly was not dismissing the fact that you feel that way belle, I just want you to know it was not your bodys fault.

Your recollections of the tiniest details lets me know it was indeed very traumatic and I am so sorry.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 220
view profile
History
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 3:52:02 PM

... your solution is to have nothing to do with Men. Nobody is forcing you to have a male partner. You are not going to change the world so change only you. Don't date. Don't talk to strange men. Come home and lock your door before it gets dark. Get a large dog. And if your sexual orientation is open to a change . . . try other women.


That is some of the most uneducated, ignorant, insulting things I've ever read, and it's not only about women/girls, men/boys get plenty of abuse too. Nobody has the right to make others victims just because they think their disgusting BS is acceptable. What a crock of bullshit. The abuser is the one who has to change, or be removed from society.
 motowncowgirl
Joined: 3/24/2015
Msg: 221
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 3:58:59 PM
Like I said before his M.O. is to insult women and then hope they will get angry so he can mock them for getting angry. And if that doesn't work he just turns up the volume on his abuse hoping someone will snap.

He is FOS and likely an emotional abuser with an actual rap sheet.

I can smell these people's stink because my ex was such an expert.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 222
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 4:05:33 PM
people who don't want to be approached as "hippies" don't wear crystals AND sandals AND a flowing skirt AND incense scent AND...... etc., etc. If you DO want to be treated as a hippie, then good for you. Nothing wrong in that. But it is how you will be treated. I have my hippie weekends, so I know.

A woman I know complained all the time about not getting promotions at work although she did most of the work. I finally met her for lunch. She was casually dressed and looked like she was going on a picnic. The co-worker that she thought should not have been promoted ahead of her wore stockings, a dress suit and washed and styled hair. That is the reality. As one poster said, wishing it different doesn't change that.
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 223
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 4:08:55 PM
Imagine a naked man on a bus full of women. How many women will grope him?
Now imagine a naked woman on a bus full of men. How many men will grope her?

Beauty be damned. With or without clothes. With or without soliticious behaviour.
A woman can be standing naked yet no man WITHOUT HER PERMISSION can touch her.


'Nuff said
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 224
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 4:12:12 PM

I'm sorry, but the "trauma" of being objectified is no different than what all sorts of people go through for being who they are.


It's trauma, not "trauma".


If someone objectifies you, then instead of getting in a snit about it, you can just as easily take advantage of that and see it as another person's weakness.


So when a woman goes to her sexist supervisor to complain about sexual comments and offensive language, she should lower her blouse a little first? Or, maybe the waitress should let her bum be pinched if it gets her a bigger tip, yes?


Take a look around and you won't have to look far to find people who would happily trade your problems for theirs.


How is this relevant?


For that matter, I wouldn't mind being objectified.


That's because you think that once in a while someone would yell "nice butt" at you or "show me your****. You would chalk it up to stupidity and go about your business. The objectification of women is a systemic and systematic problem that goes deeper than you could possibly understand. If you are neither a perpetrator nor a victim, why should your opinion be given any special consideration?
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 225
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 4:36:13 PM
"How many women will grope him?"

In modern society? At least half.

Just came in from a run. Is that fake?
 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 226
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 5:21:48 PM

Imagine a naked man on a bus full of women. How many women will grope him?

Depends on how good looking he is. And if it's a bus full of women, smells like bachelorette party to me, and he'll get groped A Lot! :)

Now imagine a naked woman on a bus full of men. How many men will grope her?

Depends on how good looking she is. And if it's a bus full of men, smells like bachelor party to me, and she'll get groped A Lot! :)

In reality though, if someone naked came walking on a bus, I think the chances of the woman being groped would be higher, but in most cases most people would step away. Kind of like the trick one news show did of a guy passing out $20 bills and everyone surprisingly apprehensive to take them. There must be something up, is what most were thinking.

A woman can be standing naked yet no man WITHOUT HER PERMISSION can touch her.

No touching in the "wrong way" (naked or not), yeah. Same goes vice versa in gender, right? However, what about being objectified, walking on a bus totally naked? That'd be like putting up a profile with pics on a bed in lingerie in provocative angles and getting upset that all men want is sex -- right? I think everyone should laugh at any guy or gal walking on a bus naked and walking off crying that everyone's objectifying them. It'd ensure that they Did have a mental issue after that was more than suspect once they walked on there naked in the first place! :)

How about this: Would you truly feel sympathy for a guy more, less, or the same if he was purposely over-dressed in sexually-alluring attire walking onto a bus, and complaining about being objectified VS a woman in that same position getting the same results?
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 227
Women and Fake Beauty
Posted: 5/19/2015 5:44:09 PM
I would not grope the naked guy any more than I would pinch a guy's bum for wearing tight jeans. You look with your eyes. No staring, no commenting, no touching.


How about this: Would you truly feel sympathy for a guy more, less, or the same if he was purposely over-dressed in sexually-alluring attire walking onto a bus, and complaining about being objectified VS a woman in that same position getting the same results?


What results would those be? I am honestly having a difficult time imaging a man dressed in a sexy-alluring way on a bus, unless you mean he was in a nice navy suit and smelled like cologne? I imagine he would go about his business freely apart from a few admiring glances.
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