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 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 76
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Another cheap tipperPage 4 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)

I don't mind tipping, but I think the minimum wage in many areas is a disgrace.


I agree, in most states it hasn't kept up with COL(cost of living) but raising the min wage ALL at once significantly is a policy scam used to win votes and cut benefits while raising taxes(used mostly be Democrats). We don't have to agree on this.....because most politicians , economists and finance experts disagree with each other on this as well. So it is a debate with no right or wrong and TWO polar sides!

But ultimately raising the min wage causes EVERY pay grade to expect a wage increase(why will I continue to work with more responsibility unless I get a raise too?). That means inflation (perhaps dollar printing). In return the INCREASED wage doesn't actually feel like a wage increase for those at the bottom, when you factor in higher taxes (based on progressive tax system) and increased wages putting income above the ceiling for certain public benefits. In the end it becomes like a dog chasing its tail..but never catching it!

Again feel free to disagree, because the so called EXPERTS do as well with each other!

I can't speak for Canada but in USA min wage jobs tend to be jobs meant to be temp. They often aren't even full time these days. Our system is based moving up! So TGIF was basically a bit correct in some of his ideas..but of course as we know people get stuck!




I can sympathize with people who make slave wages, but I don't feel it should be my job to save the world from companies that pay their workers poverty wages-although I do tip at restaurants. How many people buy clothing and other goods that are made in third world countries, where the workers are making pennies or a dollar a day, work in dangerous and unhealthy factories or mines, where human life has no value?



I agree with you on the SYMPATHY part, but I wouldn't feel so bad about the so called globalization issues of workers overseas in all cases(or even most). What you may NOT realize is those so called poverty wages are squarely middle class or upper middle class in those countries and when one considers PPP (Purchasing power parity), Big Mac index, cultural economics ( ex. free ownership of flats in FSU) and lifestyle choices they are usually much ahead of the rest. This is apparent in the high demand for these positions. To boycott the companies would be much worst for the economy. And paying Western salaries would just create an unbalance and elite status for unskilled overpaid labor which causes doctors, engineers to quit and run to work in the overpaid globalization positions. I have seen this happen back in the late 1990's.

When I was an expat I made an expat wage(western wage plus foreign assignment pay) on what is called an EXPAT package (free apts, no taxes, airfare reimbursements, other fringe benefits). I made A LOT more than the locals and even my local co workers. But the local co workers made much more than the avg pay for their profession. This created more trouble than anything because the local co workers often became agitated that we made much more and in return would work LESS (become unmotivated).

But they made much more than anyone else in the local economy for these positions and caused a brain drain for the country as well as resentment at being over qualified compared to us! In other words, Very highly skilled people would leave other jobs for these jobs that used less of their skills and in return got bored, which escalated the aggravation!


So I look at things differently than Michael Moore lol! When I purchase something overseas I realize I am EMPLOYING other people in countries that have an excess of labor. Trust me , the working conditions often are much more safe than what they would be in a non American/UK firm. Many times due to culture the people still work dangerously, even when presented with the right safety equip!(kind of like how many OLD TIMERS I work with didn't wear bullet resistant vests although mandatory to do so!)
 motowncowgirl
Joined: 3/24/2015
Msg: 77
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/28/2015 11:44:22 AM

But ultimately raising the min wage causes EVERY pay grade to expect a wage increase

no it doesn't.

in reality, raising the minimum wage only has a potential impact on SOME positions in the adjacent one or two grades.

I can guarantee you right now that no employer is going to raise every person's pay just because the minimum wage got mandated to $10.10 an hour (federal). it's just not going to happen.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 78
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Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/28/2015 11:57:00 AM
^^It depends on the job and micro economy where the job exists. Obviously if the town has only one or a few main industries there will be a larger effect, especially if most positions are capped low .

I was talking , and made reference about a significant raise. As in over 15-20(30-40k ) dollars an hour! This definitely would have a great effect because it puts the min close to the avg wage in America and the avg in many communities.

In many jobs there only are a few different pay grades to begin with. So a significant raise would create this expectation. That doesn't mean the employers will be able to do so.
 motowncowgirl
Joined: 3/24/2015
Msg: 79
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/28/2015 12:05:18 PM

^^It depends on the job and micro economy where the job exists. Obviously if the town has only one or a few main industries there will be a larger effect, especially if most positions are capped low .

what micro economy?

if employers only have a couple of low-paying grades, and if grades 3 and 4 need an increase because grade 1 has been raised to the new minimum wage, then yes those employers might go out of business because the 'micro economy' they're in will no longer support what was a marginally profitable business model to begin with. e.g., businesses who sell comic books for a living.


I was talking , and made reference about a significant raise. As in over 15-20(30-40k ) dollars an hour!

there's no direct relationship between higher grades of pay and the lowest paying jobs at any employer. it doesn't exist, because that's not how pay is determined.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 80
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Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/28/2015 12:39:27 PM
^^well there you have it....Many businesses are marginally profitable to begin with and they employ a lot of people collectively. My grandparents candy store would be an example of this! Many privately owned restaurants and small grocers are a good example. And yes your comic book store example would be a good example in many locales( but at one time they were VERY profitable).

Again it depends on the local economy. Where I live for example, mom and pop stores are the rule and not the exception and profit margins can be very low, especially in the beginning or when followers open competitive businesses and they do depend on min wage employees .

As for your second example---well actually many union jobs , specifically gov't union jobs are ACTUALLY set up that way. Pattern bargaining they call it!

(I have seen it where it is based on %'s of other grade pay)
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 81
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/28/2015 12:45:49 PM

meh, only if they stop watering down my scotch and filling the glass with as much ice as possible.


Find a new bar, then the first time tip them well, after that, they are yours.
 DeepakChoprahWinfrey
Joined: 5/16/2015
Msg: 82
Name that tune
Posted: 5/28/2015 1:05:38 PM
" Tried to please him
he only paid 20 %
Tried to TEACH him
he only paid 20 %



he was a cheap tipper
Sunday diner, yeah
It took me so long to find out
And I found out "
 tgif333
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 83
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/28/2015 1:48:10 PM
^^^Deepak, you mentioned Cuba and their expectation for tipping.^^^
same with Jamaica.

beautiful country and water. +
Dunn River Falls is fun to climb up but the Jamaicans are leeches.
they wait for you at the gates of the resorts and ask questions and tag along with you if you are walking. they talk to you the whole time then when you get to your destination they want a tip.

kind of like those costumed superheroes in Times Square.
I hear they roust you for money if you get your pic taken with them.

a 10% tip is standard for me.
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 84
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/28/2015 2:18:16 PM

I agree with you on the SYMPATHY part, but I wouldn't feel so bad about the so called globalization issues of workers overseas in all cases(or even most). What you may NOT realize is those so called poverty wages are squarely middle class or upper middle class in those countries and when one considers PPP (Purchasing power parity), Big Mac index, cultural economics ( ex. free ownership of flats in FSU) and lifestyle choices they are usually much ahead of the rest. This is apparent in the high demand for these positions. To boycott the companies would be much worst for the economy. And paying Western salaries would just create an unbalance and elite status for unskilled overpaid labor which causes doctors, engineers to quit and run to work in the overpaid globalization positions. I have seen this happen back in the late 1990's.


are you joking?


The fire at the Tazreen Fashions factory on Nov. 24, 2012, was later eclipsed by a building collapse in April that cost the lives of 1,100 workers and brought global attention to the unsafe working conditions and low wages at many garment factories in Bangladesh, the No. 2 exporter of apparel after China. The fire also revealed the poor controls that top retailers had throughout their supply chain, since retailers like Walmart said they were unaware that their apparel was being made in such factories.
 motowncowgirl
Joined: 3/24/2015
Msg: 85
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/28/2015 2:59:26 PM

Many businesses are marginally profitable to begin with and they employ a lot of people collectively.

then they deserve to go out of business if they can't even keep up with a relatively low minimum wage. I don't think their business should be subsidized into existence on the backs of people who are being paid unfairly, do you?


My grandparents candy store would be an example of this! Many privately owned restaurants and small grocers are a good example. And yes your comic book store example would be a good example in many locales( but at one time they were VERY profitable).

your grandparents were from a different generation so I don't want to get into comparing apples to oranges. as for privately owned restaurants and small grocers, if they're being driven out of business.... it's based on other factors besides a mandated minimum wage. i'd venture to guess it's because their food, service, and merchandise *sucks*. there are all kinds of little independent restaurants and farm-to-table grocers that are thriving here despite the wide availability of wal-marts and krogers and applebees.


As for your second example---well actually many union jobs , specifically gov't union jobs are ACTUALLY set up that way. Pattern bargaining they call it!

I don't know anyone working a minimum wage under a collective bargaining agreement, do you?


(I have seen it where it is based on %'s of other grade pay)

state rules vary from federal rules. some states mandate that exempt employees must be paid at least 1 1/2 times the prevailing minimum wage. collective bargaining agreements are an entity unto themselves.

..... IGgy, i'd find a better bar if they had one in this area. the bars in DC were much better!
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 86
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/28/2015 3:11:20 PM

But ultimately raising the min wage causes EVERY pay grade to expect a wage increase(why will I continue to work with more responsibility unless I get a raise too?).


Hmm. If all one had to do was work hard and responsibly to get raise, the world would be a happier place. I don't think how responsibly a person works has much to do with his or her pay. Irresponsibility , on the other hand can cost you big time.


then they deserve to go out of business if they can't even keep up with a relatively low minimum wage. I don't think their business should be subsidized into existence on the backs of people who are being paid unfairly, do you?


I would much rather see fewer employees with better wages.
 clooneystutor
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 87
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/28/2015 3:27:40 PM
Can a tip be too big?
 DietFree
Joined: 11/1/2012
Msg: 88
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Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/28/2015 3:38:28 PM

It was not my intention or mission to insult him. Yet I do not want a relationship with a man who would be so easily insulted

Maybe not, but.....making a guy feel like he's a cheap person?
I was married to a woman who had no problem undermining me in front of our kids and believed that it was necessary to "correct" me whenever I did (or didn't do) things "properly".

To tell you the truth, I would have let you pay the $5 tip....and I would have handed you the bill and walked off. Your action would have been a deal breaker for me.
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 89
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/28/2015 3:53:32 PM

Can a tip be too big?


There was a Waffle House waitress that got a fifteen hundred dollar tip....corporate fought her over it if I recall correctly.

I did tip a Huddle House waitress a hundred dollars one time. I overheard her telling another waitress that she needed a ride to work the next day because her car needed some repair that cost about eighty dollars and she couldn't get it done until payday and that would mean she would have to put off paying her light bill.

I've also paid for peoples groceries that were in front of me in checkout that looked like they were having a hard time.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 90
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Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/28/2015 4:01:28 PM
LoL- like I said , we don't have to agree.... do we?




then they deserve to go out of business if they can't even keep up with a relatively low minimum wage. I don't think their business should be subsidized into existence on the backs of people who are being paid unfairly, do you?


Not always true. They are possibly making it atm but can't afford a significant change. The successful ones may not thrive when the min wage goes from 7.5- 15 for example and they can't raise prices/sales to meet the hike.




don't know anyone working a minimum wage under a collective bargaining agreement, do you?


Actually..pretty close( between 8-9) and if min wage went to 15+ hour there are plenty who would be under min wage. I know Hotel unions and security guard(under same union) and supermarket union workers here make just a little more than the min wage AS IT IS NOW. Some low pay grade hospital workers who are unionized as well.

There are even a few entry level city gov't jobs that started at 8 an hour under the DC 37 union(largest municipal city union).

They are out there!


state rules vary from federal rules. some states mandate that exempt employees must be paid at least 1 1/2 times the prevailing minimum wage. collective bargaining agreements are an entity unto themselves.


True! Where I worked we had pay parity. We get contracts that are a certain % lower than the next rank.

Babblefish said:

are you joking?


NOPE..are you?;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Dhaka_fire

I googled the incident and I must admit I am a bit tired and could have missed something, but based on my understanding of it as written in Wiki, it basically doesn't contradict anything I said.

IN FACT it only possible supports EXACTLY what I said. According to the details it seems like the factory was a local factory with local management that didn't even deal directly with the American multinationals. Apparently the companies contracted a supplier who contracted that SPECIFIC factory. So the conditions are local! The work standards/regulations are local and the wages are most likely based on the local scale.

A western managed factory overseas or one with at least the western company direct oversight often is a much better working environment. You noticed I carefully use the word often, many, some because from what I have seen overseas (China/Honkong) there are often many differences and even the quality of 2 factories making the same EXACT thing could have a large difference in quality.

But one thing I will say; when there was western management or at least a 100% fluent English speaker running the business things went much better!
 Eric_Summit
Joined: 11/3/2009
Msg: 91
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/28/2015 4:03:36 PM
More than twenty-five years ago a manager four levels up from me had lower managers out to a "track day" for race lessons and to drive fast as a team-building exercise. At breakfast, he left the server ten $100 bills stacked on the table. His feeling was that he was very wealthy and wanted to meaningfully change the lives of people who were kind to him without any fanfare, expectation, or widespread recognition. What an interesting personality.
 tgif333
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 92
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/28/2015 6:02:32 PM

There was a Waffle House waitress that got a fifteen hundred dollar tip....corporate fought her over it if I recall correctly.

I did tip a Huddle House waitress a hundred dollars one time. I overheard her telling another waitress that she needed a ride to work the next day because her car needed some repair that cost about eighty dollars and she couldn't get it done until payday and that would mean she would have to put off paying her light bill.

I've also paid for peoples groceries that were in front of me in checkout that looked like they were having a hard time


kudos, fist bumps and huzzah to you Crook Catcher! yay!!
you're a good guy.
 motowncowgirl
Joined: 3/24/2015
Msg: 93
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/28/2015 6:02:39 PM
Adventurejoe, no we dont always have to agree but as for the businesses that fail..... the proof is in the pudding and that as they say is the bottom line.
 Sortin
Joined: 2/17/2008
Msg: 94
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Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/29/2015 8:18:13 AM
He paid $12. You paid $5, and called him cheap.
 kayla_58
Joined: 5/23/2015
Msg: 95
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/29/2015 8:21:42 AM
^^^ Oops!

There it is!
 Eternitygracesme
Joined: 5/18/2015
Msg: 96
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/29/2015 8:31:33 AM


Oh, I should hide my personality from my dates? Eh, not so much.


No, you shouldn't; and you won't mind dealing with its consequences.

But those aren't the issue.


Do you hide anything from your dates? Do you tiptoe around a man's feelings?


No -- but I'll appreciate his kind and proper gesture and not insult him for doing it.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 97
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/29/2015 8:33:07 AM

Can a tip be too big?


I was comparing notes about a couple of restaurant in the area with a coworker. He is very cheap. The type that uses coupons all the time and when in restaurants tends to be over critical and find something wrong. I mentioned to him that I liked going to a particular restaurant with regularity. He mentioned that he could not stand that place, the service was horrible, his food took forever to arrive so he complained to the manager and then left them almost no tip at all.
I told him how sorry I was, because that restaurant treated me like a king, they knew the brand of wine I liked, the service was out of this world, and they knew me by name. In fact, some waiters would fight to have my table. And every now and then, if I came in with a date they would give me my favorite dessert as a gift. And that was a bowl of fruit with strawberries, black, blue and red raspberries and a shot of Grant Manier in it. Or do a banana flambé at the table.

He went, well, they suck.

So can you tip too big? If this is a place you want to come over again, tip away. Even if you are not going there again, when you show up with that attitude, wait staff notice and fight to give you their best.
 DeepakChoprahWinfrey
Joined: 5/16/2015
Msg: 98
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/29/2015 8:36:36 AM
A tip can be too big in the Czech Republic.

The rule of thumb there is to round up the bill to the nearest 10. So, whether the bill was 71 Krowns or 79 , you leave 80 Krowns.

If you leave more than that they look at you like you have 3 heads - that's a fact !
 Eternitygracesme
Joined: 5/18/2015
Msg: 99
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/29/2015 8:37:02 AM
...and yes, starting silly arguments about a proper tip given -- and referring to him (and his kind) another cheap tipper, on here -- is bloody well insulting.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 100
Another cheap tipper
Posted: 5/29/2015 8:48:19 AM
I wonder what the OP's reaction would've been if the guy suggested going dutch, since it's a first meet where they never met before. I have a feeling that even if they went dutch-paying separately-she would still be concerned about what he left as a tip.
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