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 123nightmoves
Joined: 6/2/2015
Msg: 150
Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?Page 7 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
I had never heard of the 3 date rule either. Seems odd. I figured that by this age I could make up my mind when I wanted to have sex and it might be somewhere between the salad and dinner course and never.

I wish there were a word posting rule for the boring folks like Vicki and NG that must write a novel. From what I understand they've been asked to shorten it up and won't so now the majority just ignore them. They can ignore this post too.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 151
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Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 6/30/2015 9:59:10 AM
To avoid my over-lengthy posts directed at one person, I'll aim to cut to the chase with these...

You can not have sex with a married woman and blame her for it.

Really? So nobody can blame a TAKEN (again - why is everyone treating it only Bad if one's married?!) guy or gal for cheating on their significant other? LOL. Or are you insinuating that a taken woman is never to blame because she's a woman?

Aside from that, my retort to you accusing me of a blame game -- everyone plays a "blame game". It's just where people are pointing the "who" finger to. Unless you think nobody's ever to blame in any cheating scenario -- you're playing a blame game. Just because one blames someone less than the other, or one person 100% and virtually none to someone else, doesn't mean they're not blaming anyone. If there's a "wrong" being had in any situation, there's a "blame game", if one wants to call it that.

Being married, on vacation with the girls and lining the men up is not a woman seducing a man, its porn.

It is a woman seducing a guy. And yes, it's an exaggerated situation for the point of narrowing down how/why one is less responsible or more responsible for shinanigans going on. It's not about how frequent such situations occur, so trying to dodge that isn't going to go anywhere.

Women for a variety of reasons are more in touch with their emotions and express them more approapriately than men.

Both men & women, switching roles in any cheating situation, are Equally responsible -- 100%. If you live in a bubble where women as a whole are inferior and are less responsible for decisions made, then you live in a sad world.

The point is, where does the blame/wrong-doing lessen or increase? If one says hooking up to some extent with someone who's Taken, even when said Taken person (girl or guy) is pushing the "vagenda" on the other and there are no social ties to any extent between the two (hence, vacation example), is always 100% wrong no matter what -- then IMO, it's a "just because" argument which goes nowhere. If a GF/wife of mine went on vaycay and went trolling around to get her gas pump filled with c0ck (which no, is not some only-in-porn-movies thing) -- my angst & issues about it wouldn't at all be directed at any of these movie-extra-like guys in the story -- purely on her. Same goes with gender reversal of course.

Three dates and no sex and I would assume a woman wasn't interested enough to go out with again.

I wouldn't say that. I think the "3 date rule" would be more applied to people one has already known prior with tension built up, and/or two people not looking for a relationship and aren't socially conservative by any means. I would say the Universal 3-date rule would be True Kissing. IMO, it's not how many bases you go down by timeline X, but that there is some Progression. So if at the end of every real Date you progress to an increment of an extra half-way between a base, that's fine. If it never really progressed at the end of date #3 except handshakes & lemonade + a peck of a "kiss" -- yeah, she's lacking interest -- whether that lack of interest is driven by lack of interest in generally dating in and of itself, or not.
 Ladyinred4755
Joined: 1/30/2012
Msg: 152
Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 6/30/2015 10:34:58 AM
LMAO, SOME of us don't recognize or follow any stupidazz "Dating rules.". We use the brains we were born with and follow our own values.
AND some of us, do NOT place blame on others for our own actions. Unless there is a gun held to your head or a knife stuck in your throat, an individual CHOOSES to participate or not!

Twenty years ago, 6 months after my mother left my father, he and his future "bride", sent out wedding invitations to friends and family. My mother was livid. She wanted to contact this "bride" and inform her that the man she was about to marry, in a church wedding was NOT divorced! I quickly convinced my mother to do nothing. THIS woman was an adult. It was up to her to determine if the man she wanted to marry was or was not free to remarry. She could have asked any of his relatives if he was divorced. She chose to close her eyes to the truth, she chose to be in denial.

LMAO, Boy did s**t hit the fan, in the court room and afterwards, the day of the divorce , 4 months AFTER that wedding!

Edited: I use the PM method to contact those who fall within my age parameters here. When and IF I feel it necessary to have a one on one looonnngggg conversation!
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 153
Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 6/30/2015 10:47:36 AM

Really? So nobody can blame a TAKEN (again - why is everyone treating it only Bad if one's married?!)

Because (1) a married person is definitely ‘off the market’ while there’s always doubt about a single but ‘taken’ person and (2) it’s easier to write ‘married’ than ‘married and/or taken and/or engaged to be married and/or any other qualifications’.


… everyone plays a "blame game".

Only players play a blame game like you seem to be doing – assigning it to one party or the other but in consensual sex all parties are equally responsible. Who had sex with the married woman? You (the hypothetical you) did, so you take responsibility for having sex with a person – including the drama if she was married (whether or not you ‘knew’ it), including the consequences of having reckless sex with a person whose background you are ignorant of (if you don’t know s/he was married, I can guarantee you don’t know of any STDs). If that’s the kind of sex you engage in… then there is no external blame to one party or the other; only consequences which happen to both. Is she equally responsible for the consequences? Yes. Her consequences are probably different than yours…


Both men & women, switching roles in any cheating situation, are Equally responsible -- 100%.

Why do you say rational, reasonable things like this then wander off in the opposite direction trying to say it’s not your fault or you’re not going to feel guilty?


If a GF/wife of mine went on vaycay and went trolling around ... my angst & issues about it wouldn't at all be directed at any of these movie-extra-like guys in the story -- purely on her.

You think that you’d only be angry at her because you believe that every man is like you; that every man would fvck a female stranger even knowing she was married. You would do it, so you think that no man is more moral or stronger or any different than you. You’re wrong.

3-dates…
… but that there is some Progression.

Exactly, if there is no progression of any kind after three dates, then it’s probably a good idea to re-evaluate your strategy.
 Strawberry_Jello
Joined: 5/13/2014
Msg: 154
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Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 6/30/2015 10:48:48 AM
I blame people who misrepresent themselves. Not getting a free pass on deception.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 155
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Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 6/30/2015 12:22:26 PM

Because (1) a married person is definitely ‘off the market’ while there’s always doubt about a single but ‘taken’ person

I don't agree, actually. It'd be more ethical for me to ball-bang a gal silly, covering her in ecto-plasm at the end of the night if she was married but Separated for god knows how long VS a serious GF to a guy who she's living with. The one who's very well not so much Taken is the one who hasn't divorced VS the other. I had a friend who would cheat on his GFs all the time, and his excuse was "Well, we're not married," as if it's just a slap on the wrist to slap his pelvis against another gal's a$$ in the bedroom (rolling eyes). Point being -- both can be clearly taken, and both can have their complications/clauses.

(2) it’s easier to write ‘married’ than ‘married and/or taken and/or engaged to be married and/or any other qualifications’

Actually, saying Taken is less letters and more clear. Clears away for any "What if separated? What if Separated for X years and moved out vs newly separated?" etc.

Only players play a blame game like you seem to be doing – assigning it to one party or the other but in consensual sex all parties are equally responsible.

Again -- if you blame ANYONE for any wrong-doing in a scenario -- you're playing a Blame Game. Nothing wrong with playing a Blame Game. I assign it to Both parties, to varying degrees... and in some circumstances, only One party worthy of the blame. Blame Game can be about anyone and anything. If you want to accuse someone of playing the Blame Game and claim you dont play a Blame Game -- then Logically thru Basic Common Sense, you can't be Blaming anyone in Any scenario. We all are -- hence, we're all playing the Blame Game. It's just a difference of who and what degree in different scenarios -- that's it. If anything, I'm LACKING blame on something where some people Always want a hefty amount of blame. But either way, everyone is in virtually every Topic -- unless on such a topic they're arguing No Blame By Anyone would be had.

Why do you say rational, reasonable things like this then wander off in the opposite direction trying to say it’s not your fault or you’re not going to feel guilty?

Again, it's a Specific Isolated scenario. Set aside your emotions, and you'll see it more clear. There are scenarios where we put more guilt/blame on a cheater or the ones they hook up with, and scenarios where there's less of that, right? OK. And in some situations, one's FREE of any guilt/blame when they hook up with someone who's Taken (like, Not knowing at the time).

My argument is that in certain specific situations, where there are no (or any ever potential) social ties by any means with the Taken person, if that Taken person seduces you, when you know to some degree they're Taken (it's just their word of mouth; they can downplay it or for role-playing purposes I guess up-play it but that'd be rare) -- you aren't responsible for them crossing that line, unless you're playing some convincing role for them to hook up with you. This person they're Taken with in a faraway land -- while this Taken person you otherwise don't know from Adam either is chasing you on this vacation -- how/why is it your moral obligation to stop them from hooking up with you?

Picture this other related scenario, measuring guilt/blame: Say same scenario on vacation and you mingle/engage with a gal at a bar in said tropics. She says she has made herself sign a 3 page official document not to have sexual relations for 6 months, as part of her big breakup or divorce, etc. She's 100% single, but she has this doc she has taken seriously and co-signed by friends who really want her to abide by it, etc. But here she is on vaycay, 2 months after signing such a thing and posting it on her Facebook page and getting likes from friends & family.

So you learn that in convo, and she's not blasted drunk or anything like that. And she's Gorgeous, and Intelligent. You're just mingling, smiling -- but man, she's Seducing you. This happens over, say, a couple nights. Now, it's Admirable that you'd tell her NO when she asks to go to her room to get busy. But if you roll with it -- are you going to be wrought with guilt? Are you going to Hiss at a friend of yours if he was in that situation, to ball-bang her? Even when she says that she's not a huge fan at this point of the contract, "it's complicated", etc? I can see the guilt if you're already tied to her socially/at-work and/or her friends who have pushed her to sign onto the 6-month "abstinence" contract. But there's no ties/obligation socially to her or anyone she or you knows. And you're not convincing her -- she's seducing you, and she's a big flirt and it's Clear she's going to get her pipes cleaned by someone and break that abstinence contract if she hasn't done already. Where would your level of Logical wrongdoing be if you went along with her wishes and porked her?

I'm not saying it's the SAME thing -- it's starting with smaller concept to see where things diverge in guilt/blame, and why.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 156
Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 6/30/2015 12:44:53 PM
I had never heard of the 3 date rule either. Seems odd.
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I consider it a metric of interest. I've been dating for 30 years. I know how long it takes a woman to have sex with me if there is any chemistry. Three dates is sort of the hypothetical upper limit. If sex hasn't happened on its own by then, I would not call again. There is no reason I can think of that I would consider a plus for a woman to wait longer than that.

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I figured that by this age I could make up my mind when I wanted to have sex and it might be somewhere between the salad and dinner course and never.
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Sure, but by this age, I don't need to wait forever to know when it's going to be never.
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 157
Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 6/30/2015 1:18:21 PM

Actually, saying Taken is less letters and more clear. Clears away for....

No, it's less clear but we don't have to argue semantics.


Again -- if you blame ANYONE for any wrong-doing in a scenario -- you're playing a Blame Game.

I don't believe I have blamed anyone in this thread. There are things I will do and things I won't do but I try not to pretend that my personal decisions are arbitrarily more 'right' or 'moral' or 'ethical' than anyone else's. I do recognize that there are consequences and results for all actions particularly social actions between people.


Set aside your emotions, and you'll see it more clear.

Set aside your justifications and excuses and, perhaps, you'll see more clearly.


There are scenarios where we put more guilt/blame on a cheater or the ones they hook up with, and scenarios where there's less of that, right?

No, not right. That's your assumption and it's incorrect.


OK. And in some situations, one's FREE of any guilt/blame when they hook up with someone who's Taken (like, Not knowing at the time).

Ignorance is no excuse. But, this is MY morality speaking (see, no blame game) -- I don't have sex with someone who doesn't know my name or whether I'm 'taken'. I believe it is foolishly stupid and have no pity for what happens to people who do fvck around; their actions are their responsibility.


My argument is that in certain specific situations, where there are no (or any ever potential) social ties by any means ... -- you aren't responsible for them crossing that line, -- how/why is it your moral obligation to stop them from hooking up with you?

You aren't responsible for them and I never implied that. Nor did I imply that it is your moral obligation to stop them from attempting to hook up with you. Your responsibility and moral obligation is to respect yourself and your fellow human being. How can you respect someone who abuses their promises of fidelity? Because she's drunk or angry or a thousand miles away from her 'taken'? How can you respect yourself after fvcking someone like that or under those kind of conditions?
I can't.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 158
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Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 6/30/2015 2:14:59 PM

No, it's less clear but we don't have to argue semantics.

If someone's Taken, they're Taken. Saying only marriage (or some other specific label) implies that's the only way cheating would only be considered for any controversy. If one's not Taken, there's no cheating. Hence, just say Taken.

I don't believe I have blamed anyone in this thread.

Sure! You blame the person sleeping with someone who is Taken, when they know they're Taken. We both do, under most common circumstances. I alleviate the person they're sleeping with from guilt under certain specific circumstances -- which is the controversy I bring to the table.

I try not to pretend that my personal decisions are arbitrarily more 'right' or 'moral' or 'ethical' than anyone else's

I think you do believe that there are more right/moral/ethical actions taken VS others. There are plenty of personal decisions we make ourselves that we observe that we believe are/were more ethical than other actions we've taken.


There are scenarios where we put more guilt/blame on a cheater or the ones they hook up with, and scenarios where there's less of that, right?
No, not right. That's your assumption and it's incorrect.

Okay, so it's ALL equal then in ANY scenario. With the person they cheat on with. So if the person they cheat on with had no knowledge the other was Taken, then no change in guilt/blame? If one's a GF vs wife -- then no change in guilt/blame? If so on that one, then you should just say Taken for the sense of clarity. If the person that the Taken one's sleeping with, is friends with that Taken's partner -- that does not add/subtract any level of guilt/blame, huh? I don't think my position is merely an assumption, nor is it incorrect. :)

Ignorance is no excuse.

Whoah -- so if someone is on vacation, mingle [etc etc], and hook up with someone... then the next morning that other person says they have a serious GF or are married -- you're saying that person they slept with is Just as much in the wrong as if they knew? Hogwash. Now, if You would FEEL just as guilty -- that's another story. A completely different concept than actual right/wrong. We can feel guilty and feel like we did something wrong when we didn't -- and feel 100% fine and not guilty of anything when we did. Certainly not a measuring stick for actual right/wrong. I'm not saying you wouldn't Feel Guilty. In fact, if you did Feel/Believe you did something wrong when you didn't know they were Taken, or even merely Feel Guilty emotionally, then all that exposes is a bias -- because logically, you would have done nothing wrong if you were not informed.

You aren't responsible for them [seducing you leading to and executing a hookup] and I never implied that. Nor did I imply that it is your moral obligation to stop them from attempting to hook up with you.

Okay. So if it's not your moral obligation to Deny them from hooking up with you, then following-thru on it (assuming you yourself are single at the time) -- is Not an immoral/unethical thing to do. Okay. :) THAT was my point. Although I will argue that in many other (common) scenarios, it will be an immoral/unethical action (like, say, a co-worker's wife/GF doing that; I'd say stop their seduction process right there, not just avoiding hooking up).

Your responsibility and moral obligation is to respect yourself and your fellow human being. How can you respect someone who abuses their promises of fidelity?

Whoah, wait. This conflicts with the last thing I quoted from you. I'm not playing games, either or trying to be argumentative. It's not your moral obligation to Deny and turn away from someone Taken from seducing & hooking up with you -- but it's your moral obligation to deny and turn away from someone Taken? Please clarify.
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 159
Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 6/30/2015 2:47:01 PM

Please clarify.

I've tried.

Apparently, you have no compunction against having sex with a 'taken' woman as long as you can justify it to yourself in some way (i.e. the relationship is already broken, I'm not the first, I don't need to ask if she's married).

Your debate points to your beliefs, ethics and morals as contrary to what I consider personal integrity. Please note that's simply my opinion, nothing more.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 160
Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 6/30/2015 7:05:06 PM
Okay, so it's ALL equal then in ANY scenario. With the person they cheat on with. So if the person they cheat on with had no knowledge the other was Taken, then no change in guilt/blame?
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All of this guilt/blame bullshit is just that. If you have sex with someone, decide ahead of time if you are going to be ok with the outcome whatever it is. If not, don't have sex. If so, don't try to rationalize who is at fault or who is to blame if something doesn't turn out the way you were led to believe. That should be true for anything. If you do something, just admit that you are doing it because you want to do it instead of trying to come up with some rationalization for it.

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Women for a variety of reasons are more in touch with their emotions and express them more approapriately than men.
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I'd say it's more like they are driven by emotions and that they don't express those appropriately.
 Strawberry_Jello
Joined: 5/13/2014
Msg: 161
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Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 6/30/2015 8:38:22 PM
So, if a person deceives another person, we shouldn't blame the deceiver? It's all on the deceived?
I don't think so. Lies, deception in all it's variations, misleading, intentional omission of pertinent facts, distortions, etc. are all reprehensible behavior. Of course, we should all be so aware, and never smitten by cupid as to fall for it. Let us not pretend these things don't happen. Especially when there are whole websites and forums dedicated to this kind of deception.

If something doesn't turn out the way I was "led to believe", then the blame goes to the one who misled me.



don't try to rationalize who is at fault or who is to blame if something doesn't turn out the way you were led to believe.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 162
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Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 6/30/2015 9:00:21 PM

All of this guilt/blame bullshit is just that.

So it's BSh!t to process who's guilty of something to what degree. OK. That means nobody's guilty, because all the guilt/blame BS is just BS. Got it. :)

If you have sex with someone, decide ahead of time if you are going to be ok with the outcome whatever it is. .... If so [thinking it thru], don't try to rationalize who is at fault or who is to blame if something doesn't turn out the way you were led to believe.

Ohhh-kay, so a guy comes home to his GF one random Wed afternoon. He should rationalize ahead of time if he's going to be OK with it, no matter what happens. So he porks her, as usual (3 seconds - lol), then falls asleep. Next morning he finds out she was ball-banged by 10 dudes. Ehhh, why deal with the guilt/blame BS? It's just that -- BS. :) Don't try and blame it on her if it didn't turn out the way he was led to believe (lying by omission that she just got done ball-banging 10 dudes). Oh, that's a far out subject, yes. OH, but wait...

That should be true for anything.

Oh okay, I had doubts about my example being too rare. Thanks. :) Putting my humorous-c0ckyness motif aside, it doesn't take something like that extreme, of course. You're basically saying nobody should be blamed for anything. If you had sex with someone, don't blame anyone. If you found out they had a GF/BF/spouse after they seduced you, you can't blame them for cheating on their significant other. Why? Because you had sex with them. (Scratches head)

I'd say it's more like they are driven by emotions and that they don't express those appropriately.

That's true.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 163
Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 6/30/2015 10:31:02 PM
So, if a person deceives another person, we shouldn't blame the deceiver? It's all on the deceived?
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Who is on the losing end? What do you get out of blaming someone as opposed to using common sense and not investing more than you can afford to lose?

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If something doesn't turn out the way I was "led to believe", then the blame goes to the one who misled me.
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That'll teach him.

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So it's BSh!t to process who's guilty of something to what degree. OK. That means nobody's guilty, because all the guilt/blame BS is just BS. Got it. :)
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No, you really didn't get it.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 164
Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 7/1/2015 1:36:17 AM
Then you are dating the wrong women. Im not driven by my emotions I have a brain and often use it.
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Yes, you are driven by you emotions, certainly way more than anyone I would date. Logic and analytical reasoning certainly aren't your forte.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 165
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Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 7/1/2015 5:23:57 AM

No, you really didn't get it.

I know you don't mean exactly what I said, but in your words -- that's pretty much what you were saying. But to what (I believe) you meant: If you're going to have sex, with say, someone ya don't know on a vacation -- don't have sex if you're going to be worried about the guilt/blame issues on you. If you do follow thru on hooking up, don't worry about who's to blame anyway. Is it that far off?:

If you have sex with someone, decide ahead of time if you are going to be ok with the outcome whatever it is. If not, don't have sex. If so, don't try to rationalize who is at fault or who is to blame

However, I can understand the Worry part, sure. If I was on vaycay and the gal the next morning said she was Taken back home, I wouldn't worry/fret about it. She "conveniently" withheld that info, and that's on her. My issues/concerns have never about Worrying about anything or the emotional part -- but more about where are ethical lines drawn. Emotion can bring them in closer than they should be, and push them further out, if one's "going by instinct" (which is never a good thing to strictly go by, tossing out rationality).

If she did mention she was Taken, they're going to be broken up, they have a little don't ask/don't tell going on when it comes engaging with others, etc -- and she's consistently drawing me in -- once she's demonstrated this isn't just flirting and reeling me in, as long as I'm not doing any logical or emotional arm-twisting by any means to set the stage and it's On Her -- I'm not going to going to feel guilty at all, no. She's demonstrated she's already crossed that ethical boundary of her soon-to-be-ex, and the burden of evidence shifts onto her to prove that I'd be the first person she'd be physically crossing that line with as well, by what she'd be demonstrating (ie I wouldn't be the first).

If you take that as your guideline then yes, if she is in a relationship she is the one who is expected to stay faithful, but there is also the expectation that other men will not go there.

Under most common circumstances -- yeah, I agree. My ramblings have been about circumstances where, no, it is Not the expectation that other men won't go there. In fact, certain circumstances that it'd be silly to expect men NOT to go there. It's expected that other men Don't go there, even if she is overly flirty or even playing seductress, if he & she have any sort of overlap or even Potential overlap within their social connections (which is what a lot of cheating results from). But when they're on a vacation, in some far off place, etc and there is No mutual social ties whatsoever, AND said taken person seduces the other person -- IMO, no, you can't expect that guy to run away. IMO, it's NOT very far off from back in the home town one hooks up with another, and only until the next morning do they hear they're Taken -- as far as Blaming me is concerned.

It's also expected that if one's SO is seducing someone else when on vacation far away with random singles, that said random singles who find him/her attractive are going to follow thru. They're not a relationship counselor, and that SO already crossed the ethical boundaries by doing that that's worthy of dumping them, before the actual bedroom action literally ignites.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 166
Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 7/1/2015 8:49:25 AM
no matter who you play "hide the salami" with, if you're using your salami, you're responsible. get her pregnant, you're responsible. wake up with her husband's double-barrel in your face, asking "Genoa she was married?" and he won't care about your logical argument.

you play...you pay.

as for oluben's test question...if some hottie married woman was testing me, would I stand firm? I think we all have that temptation to bend our own rules. we have one answer to that question, when we're sitting in our living room. we have another answer when we're on vacation far away, won't get caught, and there's the cheese sitting right there...do we test our luck with the bait and think we can avoid the trap?
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 167
Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 7/1/2015 9:22:16 AM
norwegianguy456 Msg: 126


Before I pinpoint it, let's go down this road: Say I'm on this vacation and this very pretty gal is talking to me and a few other guys. Everyone would love to pork her. We find out she does have a BF, of course described as a bad one (blah blah) that they're going to break up, etc, yadda yadda. She says she's going to get fvcked, and that she has gotten fvcked before by another guy. If I say "Yes", I can be the one to pork her that night, but it's guaranteed as she says aloud, that she's going to pork one of us few guys as I can see. If I say "No", she still is. Yes, I know, this is a hyperbolic example, but just bear with me. So say I said "No" -- she takes the another guy's hand, as she declared and was obvious, and goes to his room and he porks her brains out. Even if he says "No", another guy says "Yes". So whether I say Yes or No, she's yet again, going to be cheating. In THIS specific scenario, am I breaking her relationship? Is any guy? Or is it purely Her Fault? Is everyone else sharing responsibility for how she carries out her Relationship? I say No.

Point being, in this (hyperbolic) example, no guy is twisting her arm. She's going on the offensive, not the "I dunno, please convince me because part of me wants to."

If she's going on the offensive, the Relationship's fvcked.


I don't experience guilt about having sex, but I find it distasteful to be thought of as any swinging****in a crowded room. Just me, a large minority of men crave sex more than they want to feel at least a little special.

But I don't really care about her other relationships that occurred before she met me (regardless of if she is still in said relationship) unless I wanted to make this a semi or permanent relationship.
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 168
Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 7/1/2015 9:37:05 AM

Then you are dating the wrong women. Im not driven by my emotions I have a brain and often use it.
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Yes, you are driven by you emotions, certainly way more than anyone I would date. Logic and analytical reasoning certainly aren't your forte.


I agree with MF.


"Im not driven by my emotions I have a brain and often use it. I do however listen to my instinct/emotions. "
<----driven by emotions



I seem to be having trouble posting so this is just a test post that no-one should take seriously. To answer OP's question, yes, if that married person was Beyonce Knowles.


You may have a chance. Her husband is a raging cheating ahole. ;)



What do you get out of blaming someone as opposed to using common sense and not investing more than you can afford to lose?


Some people get butthurt over losing. Actually, some get butthurt.. literally too.
tsk.. sad really because......vvvv



you play...you pay.
Exactamondo !
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 169
Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 7/1/2015 9:37:14 AM

However, I can understand the Worry part, sure. If I was on vaycay and the gal the next morning said she was Taken back home, I wouldn't worry/fret about it. She "conveniently" withheld that info, and that's on her. My issues/concerns have never about Worrying about anything or the emotional part -- but more about where are ethical lines drawn.


I don't try and finesse the finer points when having a sexual relationship with a married women: :Like did I know ahead of time, did she persue me or not, was her relationship on the rocks, etc, etc?

If I am single, then IMO it's her responsibility as to how she wants to handle her marraige. But many people would also blame me, I don't have a problem with their beliefs. And I am willing to accept whatever risk goes with that sort of relationhip.

But I wouldn't date if I were married, I don't like breaking the trust or having to lie to my wife. Then there are the repercussions if she finds out. None of that is worth it to me for the transient pleasure of a sexual liaison. I do feel guilty about lying to people.

It's interesting to see everyone else's take on this. Makes me wonder about the high rate of cheating in the USA and how so few forum members have ever done this.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 170
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Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 7/1/2015 7:50:32 PM

Er, yes you can. I dont understand NG, if you know the girl is married, if she is putting it out there as you say why do you find that attractive?

Again, why married? She could be in a terrible marriage, separated... a BF she lives with or doesn't. What would kill a mood of course if the gal's talking about a wonderful relationship or something -- or drunk as heck or something. MANY factors can make it less attractive. However, if a gal's seducing me and then I find out she's Taken: Freeze frame. If she's seducing me, and I'm not completely out of her league or anything, nor am I some famous or even semi-famous person -- this isn't the first time she's cheated. By the way, she's already over the fidelity line seriously seducing a guy. If she expresses second thoughts -- that's what would kill it instantly. Most of the time it's not going to be an issue -- a don't ask / don't tell. After all, why ask if she's all about ya, no ring, no talk about a sig-other, etc.? It's not a dating situation. But again, this is a Philosophical discussion to pinpoint where cheating actually occurs how/when/why, etc.

Why are you going on holiday? To shag as many girls as possible or to have a holiday?

If you mean Vacation -- why do people go out on vacations? That's a silly question -- for me it's the same as anyone else. Again, it's a philosophical scenario that's brought up to weed out the more common situations of stepping on social toes of people one may know, etc. And applying the attractive Taken person pushing the vagenda. Again, in such a hypothetical and not super-rare scenario -- that person has already crossed the line. If they're the ones that need to convince you and not the other way around, and said person Taken is female (who by default usually don't approach men nor really have to hardly ever), one would be a fool to assume that this is her first rodeo. I'm not her mentor, counselor, etc. Although a guy backing away from a very attractive woman in that situation he's bantering well with and she seducing him after he finds out she's Taken IS worth some kudos -- IMO, it's going above & beyond what should be expected... not what "you're supposed to do" with all those factors in consideration.

Again, theres no feelings, theres no connection beyond sex and I dont know how people get turned on by that.

People when on vacation, or newly single off the rebound enjoy that. It's quite normal, natural, and human nature. One's upbringing & experiences in life prevents them from liking that, not the other way around.

no matter who you play "hide the salami" with, if you're using your salami, you're responsible. get her pregnant, you're responsible. wake up with her husband's double-barrel in your face, asking "Genoa she was married?" and he won't care about your logical argument.

Sure, even if she never mentioned she was taken. But my point is eliminating 100% any possibility of running into trouble. I think even the remote possibility of running into trouble is what keeps a single person from fooling around with someone taken -- not so much standing "ethically proud" if it's in a situation where you know her relationship is anything but salvagable. But again, the focal point is -- where is one doing something Ethically Wrong, and if so to what degree and not, in certain circumstances -- namely, when there is no trouble to be had to run into, and the taken person has been applying the seduction, and it's obvious that this isn't her first rodeo. Personally, in those situations, I couldn't blame said X person on some vaycay she went on who porked her if I knew she was doing all that and those were the circumstances.

I don't experience guilt about having sex, but I find it distasteful to be thought of as any swinging****in a crowded room.

Yeah, that would turn me off if it was in such a game-show situation as I described. :) But again, it's not about telling some story "that happened to me" -- it's about the focusing on the level of guilt the single guy has in those scenarios compared to others. To weed out all other situations like stepping on social toes, convincing a taken gal of anything, but instead it's the other way around, and she's going to get ball-banged anyway in what obviously is a dead-end relationship by her actions. One can reverse gender roles too of course, and a single gal in play.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 171
Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 7/1/2015 8:00:19 PM

I don't experience guilt about having sex, but I find it distasteful to be thought of as any swinging****in a crowded room.


I have a big enough Ego, that I never though I just any Swinging D!ick.....

Even at an Orgy, not every person wants to hook up with everyone there........
 Peas_
Joined: 5/2/2015
Msg: 172
Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 7/1/2015 8:21:14 PM
I had a dream once that Brad Pitt called me on the phone and invited me to pizza. ....
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 173
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Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 7/2/2015 7:12:49 AM

I had a dream once that Brad Pitt called me on the phone and invited me to pizza. ....

Lemme guess -- it was a Sausage pizza? ;)

Yes this is all true. How does having sex with a random solve the terrible marriage?

Again, it's not about marriage, it's about being Taken. Only a fool would stick to "marriage only" as being Taken. One can be married and separated and more Open than others not married. To answer your question -- again, said Taken person coming up on others -- the others are not there to solve any problems. That's not their obligation by any means. Technically though, a Taken person in a horrible relationship doing so could jive things up as a wakeup call that could break it or make it come together -- where Each could be for the best. And don't forget -- said taken person going after others, especially if a gal, you're going to lose all your money REAL quick if you're betting that that's their first rodeo. It's already fallen apart if they seducing others. Not the other person's job (from a faraway place who doesn't know the Taken person from Adam) to counsel or resolve their issues.

1) now, do women seduce you? or have we stepped into porn world again? :)

No, not every woman is like you. I think you're the one in the bubble if you believe all women are always proper in every regard, especially in a broken relationship.

not necessarily [first rodeo], if shes lining them up then yes probably. ..... When we were leaving he said 'your really lovely'. And it hit me, like a bolt. I couldnt remember the last time my ex, or anyone else for that matter had said anything nice to me. It was a bit of a turning point of my marriage. However, I didnt decide to cheat in order to resolve that issue

But if you were seducing him and asking him to go back to your room -- the probability is it wouldn't have been your first rodeo... or the relationship was so broken at that point -- whether you did or didn't, it wouldn't matter if he did or didn't pork ya when you seduced him. Most likely, a gal isn't going to go from walking on land to diving in the deep end automatically. If she's diving in the deep end right off the bat -- one can be pretty darn sure it's not her first rodeo. Much like seeing a gal in a short skirt all done up, chest flaunting, at the bar, acting all frisky and such. Virgin? Yeah, possible. Is it a guy's responsibility to figure that out as to not give her a bad 1st experience if she's conveying herself like that? No.

Yes she is, if shes setting up with intent shes over the line. Why bother with someone like that?

Well, if she's hot, why not? Especially as a guy, you don't get that coming you way very often. Her crossing lines, which she does from the get-go (ex: attempted murder isn't a slap on the wrist), isn't on the guy as to how further down the line she's going, etc. His natural thoughts are crossing paths or potentially crossing paths with her SO directly or in-directly. In the example, where that Won't happen -- why not? It's all on her, putting everything forth to said guy-on-vacation-running-into-gal. Women aren't pets.

I go on holiday to relax, see the sights, swim in the sea, sun bathe, drink, have fun, read, walk along the beach

People go out for various reasons -- and experience partying and relaxation, or one or the other. Some people go out and apply the "zipcode rule" when in a bad relationship. Again, my point is, don't blame the receiver of their horny ways -- blame Them.

Sex to me is about the person Im having sex with.

Yeah, I know. You wouldn't want to have sex with anyone on vacation, even if both single, unless you found out they lived relatively close to ya by coincidence. After all, if you went on vacation and met some guy, where 99% lived far away from where you live, you couldn't be exclusive -- unless you'd be foolish enough to be duped into believing that you'd have an LD relationship thru Skype lol. So no porking no matter what for you on vacation when single! But that's a whole different subject. This is about Cheating, and where the arrow(s) point for blame, and to what degree in different circumstances.
 daytripper02
Joined: 6/3/2015
Msg: 174
Affairs: Would you ever get together with a married person?
Posted: 7/2/2015 7:15:19 AM

I had a dream once that Brad Pitt called me on the phone and invited me to pizza. .


I had the same basic dream about Brad Pitt and it was for a day in the park and ice cream.
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