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 Piroood21543
Joined: 6/14/2015
Msg: 276
Interests of women over 50y/oPage 12 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)
It's been studied. Boys are falling behind because female teachers in their grammar schools do not know how to deal with the issues boys have. They would rather them be medicated than anything else. Their attention spans, need for play time, etc. are not addressed the way they should be.
.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 277
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History
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/20/2015 7:08:21 PM
@ Kiss...

And you obviously didn't read my post referring to that....
As for many, name ANY other Native traditions that put women in an EQUAL never mind, superior position....

The only other tradition I can recall was one where the woman had the right to put her husbands blankets outside and that was considered the end of the coupling...And I believe that was the Cherokee...

I come from Mohawk myself, so not sure who you're talking to, but that's NOT the reality on the 6 reserves that I've spent time on...
 IL_Capitano
Joined: 11/23/2012
Msg: 278
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Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/20/2015 7:18:11 PM

As far as the "man hating" variety of Feminists, I am not one, and I would no more willingly associate with these people than I would with a Male Chauvinist.


Well, that's nice to hear, but I find it interesting that women who identify as "not one of those feminists" never call out those feminists for their man-hating.


Conversely, I don't think the "man hating radical feminists" are to be feared much, as very , very few of them have any clout in the workplace or in society.


Well, not sure which group is the one with the clout, but some group of feminists has even managed to get the President of the U.S. to quote misleading statistics about wage gaps and the number of women who get raped on university campuses. Repeating misleading stats enough times makes them sound true.... wasn't it Goebbels, Hitler's propagandist, who said something like that?

I've never met a single man who feels that women should not have equal pay for equal work or who feels that women should not have equal opportunities. Those men probably exist, but they really are a rare bird since I've never met one out all the men I've ever met in my nearly 60 years on this planet. I think one of the issues is that many women confuse equality of opportunity with equality of outcome.

On the other hand, almost every man I know feels he can't speak honestly and openly in mixed company about his feelings of being portrayed as a potential rapist, a misogynist, a buffoon, a pervert, a deadbeat, a loser, a guy who pines for some mythical time when every man lived a wonderful life to the detriment of every woman, or a guy who beats down his woman verbally or physically, because every guy knows he'll get shouted down by the many women who claim only women have ever been victims.

I've met men who abuse women and I've met women who abuse their men. None of those people are friends, nor will anyone like that be counted amongst my friends.

Anyway.... thirty-some years ago, I actually identified as a feminist and supported feminist causes and goals, but once feminism got co-opted by the man-hating variety of feminist, and I became father to three sons who often came home from school feeling like the girls got preferential treatment over them, things changed. Things also changed when I went through the experience of divorce and family law. My sons asked questions and expected reasonable, rational answers. I could not answer that feminists had the truth of the matter because feminists don't. I'm not convinced that MRA's or MGTOW's have all the answers either, but they provide a perspective that is a lot closer to the experience of me, my sons and almost every man I've ever met.

Cheers.

 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 279
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/20/2015 7:34:19 PM

It's been studied. Boys are falling behind because female teachers in their grammar schools do not know how to deal with the issues boys have. They would rather them be medicated than anything else. Their attention spans, need for play time, etc. are not addressed the way they should be.


Without looking into the statistics (because it's 0430), grammar school teachers are predominantly female. Perhaps if there was an equal pay between male and female teachers, then more men might teach grammar school and provide a balance in dealing with these issues. Merely a suggestion.

Il Capitano - getting different perspectives is usually a good idea. It's usually difficult to agree totally 100% with everything than any one group espouses.
 IL_Capitano
Joined: 11/23/2012
Msg: 280
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Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/20/2015 7:44:28 PM

Without looking into the statistics (because it's 0430), grammar school teachers are predominantly female. Perhaps if there was an equal pay between male and female teachers, then more men might teach grammar school and provide a balance in dealing with these issues. Merely a suggestion.


Where the hell do you live? Male and female teachers are paid differently? These teachers do know that in North America there are laws in place that make it illegal to pay someone of one sex differently than someone of another sex, no?

Where I live in Canada, and anywhere else in Canada, teachers male or female get paid EXACTLY the same because it would be illegal to pay them differently. Elementary, secondary, it makes no difference. The only difference is the number and type of degree a person has achieved.

 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 281
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/20/2015 8:27:38 PM
Mostly this is about teacher's pay in relation to non-teacher's pay when they are equally qualified (i.e. non-teachers go into more lucrative careers) as well as a comparison of union and non-union teachers' wagers. Perhaps males go into higher paying position initially (maybe science and math).

I don't know if it is against the law to pay teachers differently. I do know that it isn't a federal job, that the pay is determined by the school district or by the state. I do know that in my home state, teachers of science and math are highly sought and there are bonuses.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2014/article/pdf/teacher-staffing-and-pay-differences.pdf
 IL_Capitano
Joined: 11/23/2012
Msg: 282
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Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/20/2015 8:39:54 PM

I don't know if it is against the law to pay teachers differently. I do know that it isn't a federal job, that the pay is determined by the school district or by the state.


Well, perhaps you ought to do some research before making claims that paint a picture where men have a pay advantage over women for the same work.

It is illegal in Canada and the United States to pay one person differently than another person doing the same work. The scenario that feminists love to through out is that men get paid more for the same work that women are doing. IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO SO. If women are accepting less there are very clear laws that they can use to correct the inequality.

Besides, why would ANYONE, ANY COMPANY hire a man if they could get the same work from a woman for 20+% less?

 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 283
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/20/2015 8:51:15 PM
Ok - it is against the law to pay people different if they:
•work in the same place
•do equal work, and
•receive unequal pay.

All teachers do not work in the same place.
All teachers are not considered to do 'equal' work (i.e. science teachers vs. English teachers).

I will go and do some research if you do the same.
 IL_Capitano
Joined: 11/23/2012
Msg: 284
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Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/20/2015 9:02:12 PM

I will go and do some research if you do the same.


I live in Canada. Every province has a pay scale for teachers. I think there may be different associations/unions for different levels of public education (elementary, secondary, post-secondary) within the various provinces, but every teacher of whatever subject, within whichever level of either elementary, secondary, or post-secondary that teacher works, gets EXACTLY the same pay for for the same work.

There may be differences in private institutions, but I have no idea about that. I can say that the law applies no matter what is the situation and if if the law is being broken on a regular basis, there is a cover-up going on of astounding proportions, because I can't think of one woman I know who wouldn't, rightfully, be taking the respective school board to court.

 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 285
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/20/2015 9:47:06 PM

@ Kiss...
And you obviously didn't read my post referring to that....
As for many, name ANY other Native traditions that put women in an EQUAL never mind, superior position....

The only other tradition I can recall was one where the woman had the right to put her husbands blankets outside and that was considered the end of the coupling...And I believe that was the Cherokee...

I come from Mohawk myself, so not sure who you're talking to, but that's NOT the reality on the 6 reserves that I've spent time on...


Matriarchy was quite common for a lot of native North American Tribes. I'm not saying that this is the reality today. I'm only pointing out that the entire world was never really dominated by men in any era of history.

"...the Hopi "were and still are matrilinial"[85] and "the household ... was matrilocal".[85] Schlegel explains why there was female superiority as that the Hopi believed in "life as the highest good ... [with] the female principle ... activated in women and in Mother Earth ... as its source"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matriarchy

In Native North American tribes, even the patriarchal, ones, gender roles were not fixed. Women could be hunters and warriors and men could stay in the home to raise children. A woman could even leave her husband if he failed to please her sexually.

I had a girl from a west coast tribe tell me that in her tradition if a slave was born male he'd still be a slave. However, if a slave was born female she'd become a full member of the tribe.

There are many other matriarchal traditions around the world as well, but I can't cover them all in one post.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 286
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Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/20/2015 10:14:16 PM
The number of indigenous tribes in the world is quite high and always has been...And yes you ARE right, in that many had strong female-based ideologies that imparted importance and status to women....
Make NO mistake, compared to the rest of the human population throughout history, they are STILL a very small percentage...

As far as the Hopi being matrilineal, so what? That just means that children were traced back through the mother rather than the father, which made sense at the time, as most tribes believed that women were impregnated by 'spirits' of some kind, and that men had no part in it, as women were the ones who produced children. As far as 'matrilocal', again that ONLY means that the couple after uniting would live with, or near the woman's birth family, and, considering that most tribes lived communally any way...Again, that in no way imparted any special 'power' or privilege to women.

As far as women being able to hunt etc. yes, there were women who were 'allowed' to hunt, but the majority of the things you are talking about are specific to indigenous tribes and a specific period in history. Once those tribes were subsumed by the European culture, those traditions, along with many others, fell by the wayside, and the majority of indigenous men, began to treat women the same as the Europeans, as chattel, nothing more nothing less...

Along with alcohol abuse and being completely disenfranchised, the sexism was almost an incidental addition, at the time...

As I said in the original post...Today, on the majority of reserves in North America, even the resurgence of many traditional ways of Life DOES NOT include a 'return' to that level of equality for the women, at all.
Unfortunately, several hundred years of assimilation, has taken it's toll, in many ways...

Let's face it we can go back to those really early humans and find evidence that women and fertility were central to their belief systems as well...I don;t argue that at all, and once again, that was largely due to the 'mysteries' of pregnancy and birth..But frankly, as we became more 'civilized', in Western society at any rate, any equality previously enjoyed by women, somehow fell by the wayside...and once science actually PROVED that men had as much a part in conception as women did, well, again, that was yet another 'game changer'...

Interesting how that works, huh?

But I'm still waiting to hear exactly what kind of 'rights' that the Mohawk women in particular enjoy over and above the men...? As per your Native friend that you spoke of earlier....

And again, because ONE woman, Native or not believes that all Feminists and the movement as a whole is comprised of a bunch of "man-haters"and wants nothing to do with them...So what?
Apparently there are a LOT of women out there today who are as ignorant as the majority of the men I hear spouting off the same nonsense about Feminism being about "man-haters", etc,. all while enjoying the fruits of the blood, sweat and tears of those women who came before and were PROUD to call themselves Feminists...

Some people never obviously progressed beyond the puerile, black and white thinking of childhood, to be able to differentiate between the cause and it's ideologies and the few members of the overall movement who are NOT representative of the movement as a whole....
 BillyBuckshot14
Joined: 10/30/2014
Msg: 287
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/21/2015 5:27:53 AM

As for men fighting in wars and doing risky jobs, well the average lifespan for women was also around 26, less than HALF that of the average man, depending on which period in history you're looking at, and, if she was lucky, up until the last 100 or so years and while that was largely due to childbirth, there were MANY women who fought and died beside their men, before men realized that they better protect women by not allowing them into combat in order to continue the species....and barred women from war, as well as many women killed by abusive husbands...

Show me your data sources for this claim please!

So here we go with some real numbers from U.S. armed conflicts.


Rank War Years Deaths Deaths per Day US Population in First Year of War Deaths per Population
1 American Civil War
1861–1865 750,000[91]
420 31,443,000 2.385% (1860)
2 World War II
1941–1945 405,399 297 133,402,000 0.307% (1940)
3 World War I
1917–1918 116,516 279 103,268,000 0.110% (1920)
4 Vietnam War
1961–1975 58,209 11 179,323,175 (1960) 0.030% (1970)
5 Korean War
1950–1953 54,246 45 151,325,000 0.020% (1950)
6 American Revolutionary War
1775–1783 25,000 11 2,500,000 0.899% (1780)
7 War of 1812
1812–1815 15,000 15 8,000,000 0.207% (1810)
8 Mexican–American War
1846–1848 13,283 29 21,406,000 0.057% (1850)
9 War on Terror
2001–present 6,717 1.57 294,043,000 0.002% (2010)
10 Philippine–American War
1899–1902 4,196 3.8 72,129,001 0.006% (1900)


99.999% of American combat deaths and casualties historically (U.S. Dept Memorial Services) Since women have never been part of armed conflict until recently, we can use the War on Terror as out worst case scenario. To date, 6,717 U.S. armed forces member have laid down their lives. Of these, 144 or 2% are women.

You are correct that women are overrepresented in terms of domestic violence death with roughly 1,000-1,060 women death per year representing roughly 75% of all domestic violence fatalities (National Criminal Justice Reference Service) and 1 in 5 women and 1 in 7 men have been victims of severe physical violence by an intimate partner in their lifetime (National Coalition Against Domestic Violence). Now lets put that into perspective. Of the 12,996 murder victims in 2010 for which supplemental data were received, most (77.4 percent) were male (U.S. Department of Justice, FBI).

Lets have some more fun with stats shall we.


And of 1,129 children who died at the hands of one parent in 2006, 70.8% were killed by their mothers, whereas only 29.2% were killed by their fathers.
Furthermore, contrary to media portrayals that leave the viewer with the impression that only girls are ever harmed, boys constituted fully 60% of child fatalities. (U.S. Department of Health and Services)

And a snipplet from U.S. Department of Labor Statistics.

In the United States, in 2012, men were 54% of the workforce but 93% of workers who died at work due to fatal accidents or violence



Feminist movement for the last 30 years and speak from experience and information, you HAVE NOT

So that is what makes you qualified. 30 years of indoctrination makes you an expert. Or does it make you an agent of a movement systematically using falsehoods, over exaggerations, censorship, and bogus statistics to support their agenda.

Your views sicken me, and frankly, you're going to think whatever you want

Yes. And you and your precious movement are making more of me every day as more and more people wake up to the TRUTH!

You have NO clue and NO interest in actually HEARING about it from women apparently, unlike myself who HAS spoken to MANY, MANY men over the years about their experiences as MEN in today's world....

No I don’t. You are right and far more enlightened than me apparently.

Now, since I have showed you my sources to support my argument, would you do me a favor and show me YOURS.
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 288
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/21/2015 6:26:58 AM
Hi Il capitano -- remember that in the USA, it is not federally mandated what to pay teachers. Teachers' contracts are negotiated by the districts; some are unionized and some are not, some are private schools and some are public. So a teacher in California, for example, may make more or less than an equivalent teacher in Alaska. A school in one town of Colorado (for example) may pay more or less than another school in the same town (but different districts). It is illegal for any one school district to pay two different 3rd grade history teachers with 4 years of experience a different salary without being able document greater credentials or experience. When taking into consideration teachers over a broad swath of schools (public, private, union, non-union), male teachers make more than female teachers. This particular article covers why there are fewer teachers (not the wage gap between men and women) - the main problem being that with the education required for teaching, a person can go into higher-paying jobs.

There are other interesting articles covering the subject of the male-female wage gap as well as the gap between male and female pay in female-dominated jobs (i.e teaching, nursing). You can Google them I'm sure. Keep an open mind.
 JaiNai2
Joined: 5/30/2015
Msg: 289
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/21/2015 6:32:01 AM
Some women of any age say what they think men want to hear in order to get more responses. Some men do the same when it comes to cultural activities if a woman has listed those as her main interests. However, some are totally honest in stating their interests and I would not automatically assume ones interest will always remain the same. We change as we get older and are likely to try new things, have different interests.
 Seki1949
Joined: 9/4/2013
Msg: 290
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History
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/21/2015 10:01:56 AM

Joe these videos will explain the story.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f27zNlmRMWU

Then 3 months later this happened...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaSy8yy-mr8


"No Pick-Up Trucks Were Injured in the Making of these Videos"

Approved by SPCPT
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 291
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/21/2015 10:18:38 AM
On the topic of teaching, Capitano is correct about the pay scale in Canada. Although teacher contracts are negotiated in local boards, the funds and the funding model are dictated by the Ministry of Ed, which is provincial. In my province, only private schools are exempt from this. As far as supply and demand goes, you would have a better chance of being hired if your subject was the flavour of the month, but you can't get additional pay. Except for private schools. ALL teachers in my province are unionized.


Well, that's nice to hear, but I find it interesting that women who identify as "not one of those feminists" never call out those feminists for their man-hating.


I have given a couple of examples on different threads of when I have spoken out against sexist comments. A woman at my work said she told her husband she would "cut his****off" if he cheated. I responded by asking her if she would see the humour in her husband saying he would sew her vagina shut if she cheated on him. A heated exchange of words ensued.

I also told about a time when I emailed a beer company about one of their ads, wherein it was implied that a woman gave her boyfriend a black eye for looking at another woman. Can you imagine an ad where the man gave the woman a black eye for looking at another man? If by "calling them out" you mean speaking up, then in my own way, I do try. I boycotted (girlcotted? ) that beer. LOL. Am I going to join a Men's Rights group? Nope.


I've never met a single man who feels that women should not have equal pay for equal work or who feels that women should not have equal opportunities. Those men probably exist, but they really are a rare bird since I've never met one out all the men I've ever met in my nearly 60 years on this planet.


I agree with you.


I think one of the issues is that many women confuse equality of opportunity with equality of outcome.


This right here is an Feminist issue, and not one that is easily solved at all. Women tend to do more part time work and spend fewer years in the workforce altogether, because 100 percent of maternity leave is taken by women, and women tend to spend more time at home with children than men do. I am in this very situation myself. I have a good job, but a less than stellar pension because I stayed home with my kids for many years. Who do I blame for this? Nobody. It was my (our) choice. I think every couple has to make these decisions about child rearing on their own, and both men and women need to have their eyes wide open to the repercussions. For women, they will almost certainly damage their earning power for years to come if they stay home with children for a long period of time, and for men, they have to carry the weight of financially providing for the whole family.


I became father to three sons who often came home from school feeling like the girls got preferential treatment over them, things changed.


Can you elaborate?

I wouldn't say that teachers never play favourites, because they are human too, but I know that almost all teachers say boys get more "face time" from teachers than girls. That goes for both positive and negative attention.

Also, a VAST majority of money designated for Special Ed goes to meet the needs of boys. They have higher rates of Learning Disabilities, Autism, and Behaviour problems.

Ever been to boys' high school sporting event, versus a girls' ? The football team at my HS were certainly given a lot of status and special treatment ( even though the star player was a C student on paper and a D minus in actuality) . Oh, that was the BOYS' football team, not the girls'.


I'm not convinced that MRA's or MGTOW's have all the answers either, but they provide a perspective that is a lot closer to the experience of me, my sons and almost every man I've ever met.


I have three sons, too, and I am very protective of them and their feelings. I hate it when they are hurt by anyone, but especially by women. I just hope they know that most women are pretty decent people, as are most men. Perhaps as their generation grows older, there will less need for these types of groups. I see more and more dads getting equal custody, and more men taking on a fair share of running a home, and raising kids, and more women doctors, and CEOs. I do think overall, things are becoming more equal in most areas.
 Seki1949
Joined: 9/4/2013
Msg: 292
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History
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/21/2015 10:22:40 AM
Based on the mutual attitudes expressed here-in by men and women, we're lucky we have sex or there would be no babies being made not at all.

"Heads All Empty and I Don't Care..."
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 293
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/21/2015 10:28:56 AM

But I'm still waiting to hear exactly what kind of 'rights' that the Mohawk women in particular enjoy over and above the men...? As per your Native friend that you spoke of earlier....


The elderly women (clan mothers) were expected to keep the chiefs in line and could depose them if they abused their power. A lot of their ceremonies also honor women, not men, because women were thought to be the givers of life.


And again, because ONE woman, Native or not believes that all Feminists and the movement as a whole is comprised of a bunch of "man-haters"and wants nothing to do with them...So what?


This Mohawk lady told me that most of the feminists she knew had been in some kind of abusive situation and because of that they saw all men as potential abusers and rapists. However, this could have just been true of the feminists she knew.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 294
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/21/2015 10:49:21 AM

This Mohawk lady told me that most of the feminists she knew had been in some kind of abusive situation and because of that they saw all men as potential abusers and rapists.


And of, course, by extension a woman who has been victimized by a man can never be rational. For ****s sakes. When you hear something stupid and biased are you bound to credit it or repeat it?


However, this could have just been true of the feminists she knew.


Ya THINK?!
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 295
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/21/2015 10:57:15 AM

The elderly women (clan mothers) were expected to keep the chiefs in line and could depose them if they abused their power


THAT'S how the women had power? If they wanted the old women to have power, you'd think they'd have just let them be the chiefs, no?
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 296
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/21/2015 12:39:28 PM
^^^ I am not certain, I think all their chiefs were male and then the final approval for any decisions had to be made by the clan mothers to maintain a gender balance. Maybe you should ask Dee, as she claims to be part Mohawk. Their political system was complicated- because despite what a lot of people think, native North Americans were not simple people. There were also many other native North American tribes in which women could be chiefs, hunters, warriors- basically anything they wanted to be.
 rennips1949
Joined: 3/6/2015
Msg: 297
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/21/2015 2:16:15 PM

you have no problem parrot heading

Ummm...technical point? the word you want is "parrotTING". I honestly don't know if Jimmy Buffet fans(parrotHEADS)have an official position on feminism.


However, not once have I seen a logical rebuttal to why they are misguided. Why is that? Could it be that you have none?

would you be capable of KNOWING a logical rebuttal if you were given one???


Feminism has been very, very good to me. My first career was with the Federal Government. Nobody but the bloated, feminist dominated welfare state would have paid me so much, for so long for doing so little.

what an odd thing to brag about.


A lot of disgruntled men have decided to avoid marriage and/or relationships.

And this is a problem-how??? Marriage is not something one would care to be in with a disgruntled person. I really think that those waving the MGTOW banner are NOT causing any intimidation or 2nd thoughts among confident and competent women. As a "club" to try and beat women back into the desired dependence and submissiveness, it's about as useful as tits on a boar hog.

Do you even understand what a blessing feminism has been for men who can see through the nonsense and play the deck provided :).

Sorry, dude, you and your cronies certainly don't express here as feeling "blessed".


The mental mindset of those who hate to the point of lying their teeth, off is amazing to watch.

Yes, and that amazement crosses gender lines.


so often social change can actually be attributed to economics

I think that this is more true than many people realize.


- Chivalry has got to. Men shouldn't be thought of as the sole providers these days.
- The media shouldn't portray men as idiotic women-ogling buffoons.
- The notion that all men are potential pedophiles and rapists should be discarded.

I don't know of anybody in my real-life social and business circles, of any gender, who think this way.
Chivalry in my understanding, is more about kind treatment/assisting those in need of assistance. Yes, there tends to be a presumption that women children and elderly persons may be more in need of chivalry.
The social construct of man as provider/woman as hearthkeeper was more about what(at that time) a logical, sensible and reasonable division of labor.
Not about "chivalry".
Everyone and anyone can do what they feel to be right, consider the issues,give support wher it nakes sense, wihout joining any "movement" or assigning themselves a label.


I just hope they know that most women are pretty decent people, as are most men. Perhaps as their generation grows older, there will less need for these types of groups.

This is what we have always sought to teach our kids and grandkids.
IMO the entirety of humanity/human civilization is a house, and a house divided against itself cannot stand.


because women were thought to be the givers of life.

I always thought it was best done as a joint venture???

If memory serves correctly, wasn't this thread supposed to be about the interests of women over 50? Frankly, I cannot think of one over-50 woman- that I know IRL-who considers "feminism" as an interest. Regardless of sad womens' marital status, economic situation, etc.
So how did we get here? Or are women who participate in online dating markedly different than women who do not?
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 298
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History
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/21/2015 3:45:47 PM

I have given a couple of examples on different threads of when I have spoken out against sexist comments. A woman at my work said she told her husband she would "cut his****off" if he cheated. I responded by asking her if she would see the humour in her husband saying he would sew her vagina shut if she cheated on him. A heated exchange of words ensued.


Good point and funny incident there BUT actually what you did was an error in my opinion. You basically put your VALUES on someone else who possibly didn't share yours and isn't maybe going along with your ideology. And that is what many both men and women don't like about it! Comment was bad because it was a gross threat more than anything else.

If you are against crude/rude language and people saying crude/rude things in your presence , you either LEAVE or you let them KNOW or REPORT it to the boss if their is a policy and you are a rat..but being sexist or NOT doesn't make it any more or less appropriate in reality. Since she wasn't saying it at another worker it wouldn't even violate most EEO rules here.

Tbh I have had women say that same thing to me(my wife did).... I took it as the flip crude threat that it was, said to make a point but not be serious either. Nothing more or less. I actually have heard guys say things like that to girls in public....there was no outrage!
Now if you ask Belle I am sure she knows some ladies who SAY it and mean it lol


Can you imagine an ad where the man gave the woman a black eye for looking at another man?

Actually, I have seen anad where man slapped a women for the same thing! And many men would laugh at an ad where the women slapped a guy so it actually might be a VERY effective marketing campaign. profits win over PC everyday of the week!:P



Ever been to boys' high school sporting event, versus a girls' ? The football team at my HS were certainly given a lot of status and special treatment ( even though the star player was a C student on paper and a D minus in actuality) . Oh, that was the BOYS' football team, not the girls'.


Can't speak for Canada but boys football here CAN bring in A LOT of school revenue. I say follow the money!Although many of us were watching the cheerleaders so maybe YOU have a point????


more men taking on a fair share of running a home, and raising kids,


That is fine if they want to do that! Personally I never would want to as I disliked my time as a 3rd grade teacher and Sesame street bores me! Plus my mom was a bad example considering we had a live in nanny/housekeeper!


On the topic of teaching, Capitano is correct about the pay scale in Canada. Although teacher contracts are negotiated in local boards, the funds and the funding model are dictated by the Ministry of Ed, which is provincial. In my province, only private schools are exempt from this. As far as supply and demand goes, you would have a better chance of being hired if your subject was the flavour of the month, but you can't get additional pay. Except for private schools. ALL teachers in my province are unionized.


US is similar. Each town/city has its own school system and union contract. Pay is equal. But a man elementary teacher applicant has A LOT harder time getting a position than a female here. 2 obvious reasons I have heard/witness/experienced for it:

1. Many principals are afraid of increased lawsuits because parents are afraid of men being with smaller children and parents here in the inner city often look to sue teachers based on lies! I found being a cop much more healthy for sanity !

2. Most principals are men. And they LOVE to hire young female teachers (often that come in short skirts to the interview). My father was friends with a few and he told me how they(married men mind you) use to tell him that and I noticed it in some schools that I per diem subbed.

That being said I don't think you would like here if you are a crusader against sexism, and for political correctness. The city still carries with it an aura of old America or possibly old Europe. People are rough, direct and don’t take bullshit. The true locals don’t care one bit about being politically correct or sexism in general.

Example: My lawyer stops and comments on guys and girls asses as they walk by(he is bi).

When I was doing financial consulting(short after retirement gig) ,one of my rich high level clients here—and I’ll never forget this—said to his employees “if your vacation request starts with ‘my wife…’ it will be denied.”

Wow--I love this city!;P
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 299
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/21/2015 9:02:13 PM

US is similar. Each town/city has its own school system and union contract. Pay is equal. But a man elementary teacher applicant has A LOT harder time getting a position than a female here. 2 obvious reasons I have heard/witness/experienced for it:

1. Many principals are afraid of increased lawsuits because parents are afraid of men being with smaller children and parents here in the inner city often look to sue teachers based on lies! I found being a cop much more healthy for sanity !

2. Most principals are men. And they LOVE to hire young female teachers (often that come in short skirts to the interview). My father was friends with a few and he told me how they(married men mind you) use to tell him that and I noticed it in some schools that I per diem subbed.


Really? I think more elementary principals here are women. To be a principal here you need a minimum of five years teaching, and most elementary teachers are women, so that's why we have more female principals.

Hiring practices are pretty regimented here. Getting hired as a teacher is quite difficult. New teachers have to have at least two interviews by the board before they can even supply teach, and after that they have to do some long term work ( like covering a maternity leave) and THEN if a permanent job comes up, the principal can hire from a selected list of applicants. I cannot imagine for a second that the length of a skirt would be considered. The principal cannot fire a teacher here, either, btw. I get he impression teachers are not as valued or respected in the states as they are here. They are not as well paid, either.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 300
view profile
History
Interests of women over 50y/o
Posted: 6/22/2015 6:50:18 AM

There were also many other native North American tribes in which women could be chiefs, hunters, warriors- basically anything they wanted to be.


Nope, there weren't...

Women's primary role was and always has been, to continue the species, as nobody else COULD do it, as well as to raise children,...
The only time that a woman would be acknowledged as a 'chief' would be if she was married to one who was killed and took part in the process of helping the tribe to choose another...Although I'm sure that you can find a female chief SOMEWHERE, in their history, it would prove challenging to say the least, as most North American Natives history is purely oral, and, unfortunately, like a game of post office, much has been lost over the centuries...especially since assimilation by the white man.
As for hunting, again, it was 'frowned upon' for a woman to hunt as her getting injured would compromise the survival of her children...Single women however, especially younger ones WERE allowed to hunt, but again, many tribes had restrictions based upon their menstrual cycles as well as their 'value' as 'breeders' of children.

As far as Mohawk women 'deposing' a chief...again, not sure where that comes from, but as far as I know that was a decision made by a council of ELDERS, which meant men AND women, and all they could do was make a recommendation, they did NOT have the power to actually 'depose' anyone...in the majority of tribes, and I won't say that I know the traditions of ALL tribes, as the 6 Nations alone is made up of 6 different tribes,and that comprises over 140 00 registered people at this point, who are spread over a wide area, into many bands....Many Native tribes and traditions were among the first 'democracies'.
In the case of a woman who was being abused by her mate, a council of women COULD be formed and then take the issue to the elders, who would then take the recommendation and most likely approve it, yes, because violence between mates, was unacceptable and possibly very damaging in such small communities with so many intricate and complicated familial ties.

As far as claiming to be part Mohawk...Well, again, not going to trot out my 'credentials' for anyone on a dating forum, and the information IS out there, in MORE than one example from Wikipedia, for anyone who is interested in the facts rather than the opinions of ANY one person, including myself ....

AS for your friend's opinions about 'damaged women becoming man-hating feminists',...well, DUH!!!LOL

Of course a woman who has suffered at the hands of a man WILL most likely seek shelter under the banner of Feminism...I'm sorry, but do you believe that the men in MGTOW are 'loving' women???? Doesn't mean that is the MAJORITY, or that ALL feminists are coming from the same place....
Just wait, my friend...you WILL eventually see that the exact SAME thing will happen with that 'movement' as well...(MGTOW)
IF there actually ARE any men involved with it who DON'T hate women at all, they will VERY quickly find themselves defending and trying to separate the 'real' issues out from the agenda of those who are there to simply get revenge on all women everywhere...and BEAT them back into 'submission' where they 'belong'....

What? Because it's a group of men fighting for THEIR 'rights' you believe that that somehow legitimizes their hatred of women...more? Or makes it permissible in the first place?
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