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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > The confederate flag debate.      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 BussOfEsprit
Joined: 10/10/2014
Msg: 176
The confederate flag debatePage 8 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)

For God’s sake, man – they were attempting to leave the union because they were scared that the Republicans were going to choke off slavery, which led to representation concerns, taxation concerns and other economic concerns. It all goes back to slavery (which means they obviously weren’t all that concerned about the concept of “liberty”)

You missed the point! When I mentioned concerns about representation, taxation, revenue from taxation, liberty, and a decentralized government, slavery is implied. Can’t talk about the Civil War without slavery. My first message I mention slavery being an “element” of the Civil War and my last message I referred to the South not being ready to give up slavery and very much dependent on it. Again, you’re focused on what is relevant to you and ignoring everything else, we’re not going to agree.

The now-famous second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence was skipped over by the vast majority who read it in 1776 (importance of understanding the time period). This paragraph was relevant only to a small group of abolitionist but was the seed that would eventually abolish slavery. The vast majority focused on the list of charges against King George III that dominated the text and the bold capital letters in the final section that declared the Colonies to be “FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES”. Today we view it as a declaration of individual rights. I use “Liberty” in the context that the Southern States used, which was always used (except by the abolitionist movement) since 1776, which was about “FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES”.

When Lincoln and the Civil War are discussed it’s a complicated issue and far from cut and dry. Lincoln’s view on Black Americans evolved throughout the Civil War and was much different at the end and he sounded more like an abolitionist. He didn’t see himself as an abolitionist (although accused of it) but personally opposed the institution of slavery and believed eventually the U.S. would have to be free of slavery. His main concern was preserving the Union and was willing to comprise to do so. Lincoln didn’t know how to solve the slavery issue (much as the founding fathers didn’t) and his tactics changed throughout the Civil War.

Throughout my contributions I’ve repeatedly discussed the North and South. I’ve provided issues on both sides of the Civil War but you’ve completely ignored the points about the North and only focused on parts of the South that are relevant to you. When I mentioned that the Civil War wasn’t as much about slavery (again, no doubt a component of it) as we have been taught, I put the onus on the North and Lincoln. I don’t believe there are any quotes of Lincoln stating that the Civil War was about abolishing slavery (my history is a little rusty). There are several quotes of Lincoln stating his focus was on preserving the Union (point I made about a Forced Union vs a Voluntary Union). Several quotes of Lincoln talking about taxation (point I made about the Morrill Tariff Act). Lincoln endorsing permanent slavery prior to the Civil War was a compromise to bring the South back into the Union to preserve it (made this point earlier). Emancipation only freed slaves in the Southern States and was a military tactic. Prior to the Civil War there were roughly 4 million enslaved African Americans and after the Civil War there were roughly 3.5 million (figures probably off a little) still in bondage throughout the North and the States that sided with the North. So even at the end of the Civil War, slavery still existed. What ended slavery was the new version of the 13th Amendment and that was a struggle to get passed.

When I view the confederate flag, I view it the same way I view any other civilization or culture in history because there is always an element of slavery and racism. Yes, the Southern States wanted to keep slavery permanent and slavery had always been permanent throughout history (again, nothing new here). There had always been an element of racism because it was a product of a violent, life and death, filled with bondage, history. What was occurring was a clash between the old world and the new world that was rising. You asked if I think the Southern States would’ve gotten to the point of ending slavery without being forced (meaning a war) to do so and my answer is YES. Have you read anything I’ve been saying? You had the same abolitionist movement in the U.S. that you had in the rest of the West and they all transitioned away from slavery without a war. Once again, my discussion is NOT that I’m in favor or against slavery or the South, my discussion is about HISTORY and understanding the events of it, that’s why I keep saying your prejudice is preventing you from understanding. This is not personal for me but it is for you and it’s understandable.

The KKK is well documented as being created to suppress the Black population in general and from voting, as well as white republicans (many Black Americans were republicans). When I speak about Black Americans uprising, my view is derived from Malcolm X and the “Message to the Grass Roots” speech. The white population started off poor but saved money and created businesses. These businesses grew into bigger businesses and gained economic clout. The same time Malcolm X was giving speeches about Black Americans doing the same thing as White Americans, the federal government derailed his efforts with social programs. So if you’re dependent on welfare, you’re not creating businesses and jobs and will not gain economic power. You view social programs (I do believe in a net) as helpful but I view them as being very corrosive, especially has been to Black Americans. The federal government has proven over and over again that there is always a reason why they do things but they’re not going to tell you that reason. They will give you some propaganda with a smile and say “we are here to help you” but there is always a reason that is hidden.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 177
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/25/2015 4:24:44 AM

my discussion is about HISTORY and understanding the events of it, that’s why I keep saying your prejudice is preventing you from understanding. This is not personal for me but it is for you and it’s understandable.

Incredible... absolutely incredible... You're in here trying minimize the role of the one "but for" element of the Civil War... by hiding behind a pretense of "grand principles" and "noble honourable causes"... as if any of those supposed "grand principles" and "noble honourable causes" would have led to war without "the cause of slavery"... and patronizingly call him blinded and prejudiced but "understandably so"... because of his ancestry and experiences in the south...

I don't think I've pointed out anything that hawking hasn't... And I can tell you that my ancestry and experiences relating to the subject come from the very same coin... just the "flip side"... so it makes me kind of curious as to why that would be... completely opposite experiences... polar opposite... leading to the same conclusions... hmmm...

(cue haze effect)

I'm from the south... born and raised... to the "genteel southern class"... to a family that had been part of the "plantation class" since well before there was a United States... and as we all know... because it was the way things were then... that the "plantation class" and the "political elite" were pretty much the same thing... Yes, my ancestors purchased indentures and outright owned slaves... in every generation until the end of the Civil War... As a bit of trivia, the last pre-Civil War plantation owned by my family remained in the immediate family until the late '70's... That's the late 1970's... After the Civil War hired black domestics and poor tenant farmers were the common replacement...

As a kid... I lived in an up-scale, all-white neighbourhood... A really warm, friendly, crowd... "genteel southerners" to a one... both "old blood" and "new"... So warm and friendly that my family's hired black help was known by name to every family in the neighbourhood... of course, with only one name to remember you would expect that... I mean, how hard is "(Familynames)'s N****r", really...?

The neighbourhood itself was really nice too... Just down the street was a really nice park... well cared for... with swings, see-saws, slides, a jungle gym and one of those "kid powered" merry-go-rounds... And the city was kind enough to post the park rules... nice courteously worded signs pointing out that the park was really only for white people... Which, of course, was very "genteel" of them... certainly not crass and in poor taste, like "Go away n****r. We don't want you here", even if that was what some people really wanted them to say... Certainly that should prove that wasn't really meant to be racist... not really... Surely they wouldn't go to the trouble of being polite unless there were other more important reasons...

Curiously, even after the signs came down it seems the rules were still the same... I have quite a clear recollection of the time I became aware of that little conundrum... A couple of black kids not much older than me (who either must have walked quite some distance or were the children of someone's maid) came to the park... That's what makes it easy to remember... I had never seen a black kid in that park before... You can bet a couple of the concerned grown-ups snapped into action though... yelling at the kids to get out... swearing... threatening to hurt the kids if they came back... The whole thing seemed a little excessive to me but I guess... in hind sight... they just wanted to make sure that the other kids in the park were shown a good example of how to handle such blatantly unacceptable behaviour... After all... what those kids did that day... that was almost "thuggish"... I guess it's a good thing they had those adults to set them on the straight and narrow...

And a bit farther away... just beyond the boundary with the somewhat lower class whites... was a small confectioner/grocer... They were very friendly as well... always treated me great... and I guess they must have treated their black customers well also because I can't remember ever seeing any black people leaving upset... of course... I don't remember ever seeing any black people go in either... but I'm sure that's just a coincidence...

Sure... there may have been some racism involved... and yes that racism may have permeated every level... to one degree or another, of course... but that's just how things were done then... it's how people thought and it was what everyone was doing... that was just part of the times we lived in...

And besides... there were other issues at stake... grand principles and noble lofty causes that we were protecting and fostering as well... We were protecting the integrity of the American family... We were fighting against the decay of a moral, Christian America... And even more than that... We were actually fighting FOR the black man... Fighting to protect them from the chains of the oppressive expectations of equality that those self-styled "civil rights activists" were foisting on them that were so unfairly keeping blacks down...

All those miscegenation and anti-race mixing laws... all those segregation laws... were necessary... Yes, a few wanted them for racist reasons... and yes, a small minority of those may have gotten a little carried away with those "lynching" and "church bombing" things... and yes, the end effect may have appeared racist... but that's just one small part that pales in importance next to our grand principles and noble lofty causes... and THAT'S really what should be focused on... THAT'S REALLY TRULY what it was all about... Those grand principles and noble lofty causes... from a dispassionate, historical perspective... taking in the "big picture"... of course...

But Don't get me wrong... I'm not denying that racism had a part to play in all that... So you can't accuse me of "white washing" or "revising" history...

(cue reverse haze effect)
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 178
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/25/2015 7:18:47 AM
La. gunman was a Tea Partier who hated Obama, admired Hitler and wanted women to shut up in church
Travis Gettys
24 Jul 2015 at 11:23 ET

The gunman who killed two moviegoers and wounded nine others had a prolific online commenting history that revealed a fascination with censorship, Iran, and right-wing politics...


Read more about how this gunman sounds similar to some of the right wing jesus loving posters here at:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/louisiana-gunman-was-a-confederate-flag-flying-tea-party-kook-who-hated-obama-and-admired-hitler/
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 179
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/25/2015 8:46:35 AM
PCdom is at it again, now trying to remove a mural that depicts the history of an area because way, way back in the corner there are KKK members, painted smaller than a bird on the mural. Do we erase them from history? Do we pretend that they didn't exist. No. "NEVER FORGET" Doesn't make sense.
DELUSION once again.

The USA is becoming like ISIS when ISIS and similar groups enter countries and destroy all historical monuments, statutes, paintings, etc.

One person interviewed who is petitioning to keep the mural said that maybe we should stop teaching about or have anything about the Holocaust.
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 180
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/25/2015 7:36:55 PM

The USA is becoming like ISIS when ISIS and similar groups enter countries and destroy all historical monuments, statutes, paintings, etc.


Those are not who you need to be worried about:

White Americans Are Biggest Terror Threat in U.S.: Study
Peter Gelling
June 24, 2015

White Americans are the biggest terror threat in the United States, according to a study by the New America Foundation. The Washington-based research organization did a review of “terror” attacks on US soil since Sept. 11, 2001 and found that most of them were carried out by radical anti-government groups or white supremacists.

Almost twice as many people have died in attacks by right-wing groups in America than have died in attacks by Muslim extremists. Of the 26 attacks since 9/11 that the group defined as terror, 19 were carried out by non-Muslims. Yet there are no white Americans languishing inside the prison camp at Guantanamo Bay. And there are no drones dropping bombs on gatherings of military-age males in the country's lawless border regions.



http://www.globalpost.com/article/6592741/2015/06/24/white-americans-are-biggest-terror-threat-united-states
 BialaPolska
Joined: 5/20/2015
Msg: 181
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/26/2015 2:36:47 AM
Ah , is Black on White rape described as terror? HF, you might want to review those stats. If you are White , you might wish to take heed.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 182
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/26/2015 7:53:40 AM
Hmmm. What do you think about this:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/04/03/black-rape-statistics/


or

this

https://jewamongyou.wordpress.com/2012/03/15/a-black-answer-to-black-on-white-rape-statistics/


??
 BialaPolska
Joined: 5/20/2015
Msg: 183
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/26/2015 11:22:40 AM
Hmmmm. The DOJ , under the current regime , under the stewardship of both Eric "with" Holder and currently Loretta Lynch has become largely owned and operated by blacks. Sadly , the facts remain unchanged. 90% of all interacial crimes in the US are committed by Blacks against Whites. Even such a homogenous gubmint entity as the DOJ must admit reality. The above factoid is from http//bjs.ojpusdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=dedetail1&jid=245 .
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 184
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/26/2015 12:54:55 PM

Hawking , I feel you are not only incorrect once , but twice. With only a scant 3% of the South holding slaves , do you think the other 97 cared either way?

When eliminating slavery would drop 97% of THEM down to the social status level of the blacks... or more accurately... raise blacks to the same social status level as them...?

You can damn sure bet they cared... Eliminating slavery would have taken even more from them than the rich slave holders... For the other 97%... it meant an irrevocable loss of social status and the very few privileges that might go with it... For the 97%... it meant they were "no better than n****rs"... Just the same as it is for you today... So yes, damn straight they "cared either way"... The "plantation class" knew this and that it was as reliable as sunrise...
 BialaPolska
Joined: 5/20/2015
Msg: 185
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/26/2015 1:22:47 PM
Mere conjecture , Mungo. Were you there? Supporting links? Understanding of Southern Culture? All negative.

As a quick sidebar ; the EU threatens an invasion of 2000 blacks and browns to Poland this summer. Today , thousands of Proud Poles rally in defense. A quick video shows the flag of White Resistance ( the stars and bars) being utilized even in my Father's Homeland. Considering the Baltics to be the last great White Hope ; it is wonderful to see Whites with a spine.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 186
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/26/2015 1:34:49 PM
Years ago I had a Sticker for the Band Lynyrd Skynyrd on the Back Window of My pickup......
It was the Rebel Flag with all but 1 of the Stars Replaced with the Band's Name.......
Then one day walking up to my Truck I noticed the Flag as the Background of the Sticker was Printed....
Upside Down....... Ever since then, when I see a Rebel Flag Sticker on a Vehicle....
The first thing I do, is look to see if it's Right Side Up or Upside Down......

If it's Upside Down, I laugh & think...... "What a Maroon"......
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 187
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/26/2015 1:53:26 PM

Understanding of Southern Culture?

Yes... I was born and raised in it...

Mere conjecture , Mungo.

If by "conjecture"... you mean things like direct personal accounts and such history... then yes, it is "conjecture"...

Were you there?

Now you are being silly...

However... my family was... "knee deep" if you will... and if YOU truly understood "southern culture"... You would know that it is a matter of personal and family pride... among the "old blood genteel southern class"... to keep meticulous accounts of family history... diaries, letters, marriage/death/baptismal certificates, you name it... almost down to freakin' grocery lists sometimes... and you would know why they did this and why it was considered essential for a "genteel southerner"...

I would ask you this question: "How in hell do you think my "genteel southern" ancestors managed to convince your "red-necked cracker" ancestors to die for the "freedom" and "liberty" of their betters to own slaves if they wanted to?"... but I don't believe your family is "American enough" to have been around then... That kind of makes me wonder how you would have even a clue in any event...
 BialaPolska
Joined: 5/20/2015
Msg: 188
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/26/2015 3:33:07 PM
^ Well , keep wondering. My background slightly varies. Certainly , most whites will agree Western Culture and our numbers are in decline. You may not care or even take delight in the slow death of Western Culture. Would you attribute this trend to genocide or suicide? People were already wanting an ethnostate as far back as 1863. An oppressive federal "beast" has consistantly denied Southern Whites Constitutional Freedoms.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 189
view profile
History
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/27/2015 10:11:00 AM
“With only a scant 3% of the South holding slaves , do you think the other 97 cared either way? Sovereignty was at stake.” / “Mere conjecture , Mungo. Were you there? Supporting links?”

I already addressed this is post #44, but a far better summary can be found in: http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/civil-war-overview/why-non-slaveholding.html
Although MungoJoe pretty much summarized that summary with: “When eliminating slavery would drop 97% of THEM down to the social status level of the blacks... or more accurately... raise blacks to the same social status level as them...?” Basically, you had a bunch of slave-holding politicians preaching to the slaveless whites about how society would go to hell if slavery ended, scaring them into fighting for the Confederacy, both by economic scares and on a purely racist level (particularly in relation to miscegenation – which, oddly, slave masters had no problem with when they raped black slaves – it’s just black males having relations with white women that was intolerable).

I’m also not sure where you guys keep getting “3%” from, when most sources (see below) list about 30% of Confederacy-dwelling families owning slaves (now the entire U.S. combined was single digits, but surely none of you would be trying to skew the results by using that number?).

“PCdom is at it again, now trying to remove a mural that depicts the history of an area because way, way back in the corner there are KKK members, painted smaller than a bird on the mural. Do we erase them from history? Do we pretend that they didn't exist. No. ‘NEVER FORGET’ Doesn't make sense. DELUSION once again.”

I agree with about 1% of anything you say in the forums, yet somehow we are on the same side on this particular subject. The ultimate absurdity is Stone Mountain. Just like the TV show “Dukes of Hazzard,” there is nothing directly racist about that monument. It’s just 3 leaders of the Confederacy riding horses. Even if they were waving Confederate flags, there would be no reason to remove it (mostly because it’s too much trouble to do so). Now if there was a black guy hanging from a tree in it... then my opinion would be to blast it from the mountain, no matter how “historic” it is, because that is DIRECTLY racist, not to mention an eyesore and outright offensive. 3 guys on a horse does not qualify, no matter how dastardly Jefferson Davis’ positions might have been (Lee and Jackson, although undoubtedly also racist, are much more complex individuals; I think you have to admire Lee just for knowing when he was beaten, unlike most Southerners even today). I do feel strongly that most true historic relics should not be destroyed even if their meaning becomes negative later (though since the beginning of time, victors have been destroying historic relics of those they defeated, so I’m not sure why this is bothering some so much), but just exactly how “historic” is Stone Mountain? It was completed in the 70s... 1970s, not 1870s. And it was chosen for the monument because it was the site of the founding of the 20th century version of the KKK. So I can see why some might view it as a racist symbol, even if the images in it are relatively benign.

Buss: We really don’t disagree about Lincoln. Which makes me wonder why you don’t think the Southern states’ reaction to his election was a vast overreaction. Again, an overreaction that I personally am glad happened since there’s no telling how many more decades would have passed until slavery ended if they hadn’t seceded, but an overreaction nevertheless. But as I pointed out earlier, I really don’t give a damn what Lincoln’s motivations were, because he’s not the one who started the war: the Confederacy attacked first. Now even if Ft. Sumter hadn’t occurred, it seems likely eventually that Lincoln would have “invaded” the South if they hadn’t reversed course on secession. And it would probably not have been to “free the slaves.” *I* am not hailing Lincoln as some sort of anti-slavery hero, because he’s really not much of one and *I* never said he was. His reasoning for fighting the Civil War does not matter to me in this debate because that’s not what is on trial here.

What was ORIGINALLY on trial was whether or not the Confederate Flag is a racist symbol, and you said it wasn’t, even though the flag’s own creators said it was. Somehow we’ve gone from that point to knee-deep in the minutia over the origins of the Confederacy and the Civil War and modern day racism, when really, I cannot understand how anything matters in the original debate other than what the flag creators’ said their flags meant. Nobody’s still explained why their “opinions” on their own creation don’t matter. This seems like an even more cut-and-dried situation than cross-burning, which I’m sure you will claim is despicable, even though the original Scottish meaning of that act was completely non-racist.

“Emancipation only freed slaves in the Southern States and was a military tactic. Prior to the Civil War there were roughly 4 million enslaved African Americans and after the Civil War there were roughly 3.5 million (figures probably off a little) still in bondage throughout the North and the States that sided with the North.”

This doesn’t make any sense. There were 4 million slaves in the entire United States at the time of the Civil War – how could there be 3.5 million still enslaved in the North/Northern sympathizers immediately after the war? So somehow there were only 500,000 slaves in the South during the Civil War?

http://www.civil-war.net/pages/1860_census.html

Maybe this page is “distorting history,” but if it is to be believed, you have your math backwards – 500,000 slaves were in the “Northern” states, 3.5 million in the Southern. And Kentucky and Missouri are actually included among the stars in the Confederate flag, as some faction of their state governments voted to join, and then promptly had their own internal civil wars over the matter, so the 90,000 slaves in Maryland and Delaware are the only ones I’d truly count as being in “Union” territory. Maryland eventually abolished slavery on its own, during the Civil War and prior to the ratification of the 14th Amendment. The only true Union state that was forced by the 14th Amendment to end slavery was Delaware, which had less than 2000 slaves. (And this is the chart that shows 30% of families in Confederate states owning slaves.)

“This is not personal for me but it is for you and it’s understandable.”

How is this not personal for you? Aren’t you a Texan? 8inscrew might be able to claim that it’s not personal (although he still hasn’t explained why the illegal immigrant issue is so personal to him). Unless you are a Southern transplant, then this issue could not possibly be more personal to you. You cannot possibly have lived in the South your whole life and not be strongly influenced by race matters – especially if your ancestors also lived in the South and owned slaves or were otherwise racist.

“The same time Malcolm X was giving speeches about Black Americans doing the same thing as White Americans, the federal government derailed his efforts with social programs.”

Malcolm X, much like Bill Cosby, preached out of one side of his mouth and practiced out of the other – I’m much more of a black leader than he is, because I’ve never been arrested or served time, never had a litter of kids and I graduated from college with high honors. Screw him. Conservatives only bring him up when something he said or did aligns with their beliefs.

And you started with Malcolm X and the Great Society why...? Most social programs were started under FDR during the Great Depression. And he certainly wasn’t exactly a “black-friendly” kinda guy, just an opportunist for the most part. I will say in LBJ’s defense, he had a situation in which the Southern state governments and many of its white citizens were STILL discriminating against blacks, creating many more hurdles for them than poor whites had. Nevertheless, very few of the Great Society programs were for “blacks-only” so I’m not quite sure why you’re putting a race element into it. They ended up being disproportionately used by blacks because they were disproportionately poor... thanks to 100 years of institutionalized racism. Now if you want to argue about bussing and affirmative action and all that ish, then I’d probably bow out. But welfare is pretty much non-discriminatory. Except against the rich, of course.

More importantly, you’ve mistaken me for someone who is pro-welfare. I’m largely a fiscal conservative. There’s a good chance that I believe in a “net” even less than you do, because I am one unsympathetic bast*rd. Plus, I probably like black people less than Biala. But unlike you, I’m not blind to the fact that blacks are where they are today because of institutionalized racism against them. You can’t seriously expect the average black today to be a stellar citizen less than 50 years after they were legally kept out of nearly all the good universities and good jobs and good neighborhoods? By the time the federal government began putting an end to all that nonsense, many generations of blacks had been forced to live like second and third class citizens, so it is not surprising to me at all that many born recently still live that way, because it’s how their parents lived and how their parents’ parents lived. There are nearly 40 million blacks in the United States. You can’t just turn a ship that big around in a matter of seconds after it’s been charging full steam ahead toward oblivion since the 1600s. I mean, West Virginia has been the poorest state basically since it was founded – nobody seems to be able to turn that ship around either, even though it’s nearly 100% white. Speaking of which, explain West Virginia to me in the context of your “the federal government derailed his efforts with social programs” race-oriented theory. Less than 5% of its population is black, yet 20% of its population is on food stamps, always ranking in the top 5. What’s up with that?
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 190
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/27/2015 10:41:54 AM

^ Well , keep wondering. My background slightly varies. Certainly , most whites will agree Western Culture and our numbers are in decline.


I would agree there are fewer racist douche bags in the world.




You may not care or even take delight in the slow death of Western Culture. Would you attribute this trend to genocide or suicide?


Sounds more like someone has their tinfoil hat on backwards.
 BialaPolska
Joined: 5/20/2015
Msg: 191
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/29/2015 2:51:19 AM
Well , Hawking I appreciate your respect for Stone Mountain. I once rented a home to a Black Nationalist. He painted your flag on the bedroom wall. Paid on time . $900-1200 a month for 9 yrs. We both were very much aware of the other's views. Never spoke socially but clearly had a successful business relationship. My issue is , again , with federal intervention promoting forced integration , forced assimilation , and forced immigration ; all steered and weaponized against Whites by an out of control fed. Our biggest threat being immigration . Needless to say , The Confederate Flag is a symbol of this disdain for Federal Intervention. Also a symbol of our culture much like the Black Nationalist Flag.

Sure , I could see WVA not being the most productive states. What about Detroit? LOL. Truth be told the obese welfare state is not infested with Whites or Blacks but some kind of mixture ; again immigration provides a certain kind of non white public service recipient. Certainly , we can observe the parasite eating the host in mexifornia. Soon , entitled illegals will in one way or another force Blacks to the cities of the Southeast , making Atlanta their hub. Whites , as we are now , will be settling in what the left calls "flyover" America. The land between the Rockies and Appalachains.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 192
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/29/2015 4:09:27 AM
What about the current welfare recipients that would be eligible for the "fly-over zone." What would be done with them? Or would you leave them behind in the other areas?
 BialaPolska
Joined: 5/20/2015
Msg: 193
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/29/2015 6:20:56 AM
Dee , once the nation is entirely balkanized , people will be more inclined to assist members of their own ethnicity. Once Nationalism has developed ; child , elder and healthcare become second nature. Elderly Europeans and infirmed would be cared for throughout the social network. We have never had a problem providing for our own. As we speak , pro White charities flourish. We have rallied for years against the IRS ; to assist Whites with White $'s.
 Orione7
Joined: 12/22/2014
Msg: 194
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/30/2015 3:17:14 PM
But you aren't white Biala in many Amerikan eyes.
Youre that Slavic trash to the east...
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 195
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/30/2015 3:47:06 PM

But you aren't white Biala in many Amerikan eyes.
Youre that Slavic trash to the east...

That is true... and it isn't just Americans... Even the "True Aryan Master Race"... the "whitest of the white"... thought the same...

Just look at what they did to the Slavics... when they beat them more easily than taking candy from a baby (I'm surprised they even bothered bringing the tanks and guns with them considering what they thought of Slavics)...

And if the "True Aryan Master Race"... the "whitest of the white"... thought you were sub-human scum... well... need I say more...? It certainly doesn't speak well for your "cause"...
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 196
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The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/30/2015 6:11:19 PM

That is true... and it isn't just Americans... Even the "True Aryan Master Race"... the "whitest of the white"... thought the same...

Just look at what they did to the Slavics... when they beat them more easily than taking candy from a baby (I'm surprised they even bothered bringing the tanks and guns with them considering what they thought of Slavics)...

And if the "True Aryan Master Race"... the "whitest of the white"... thought you were sub-human scum... well... need I say more...? It certainly doesn't speak well for your "cause"...


Bingo Joe. Hitler and Stalin both attempted to Eradicate the Poles ( although Hitler true intentions were to enslave all Slavs). Every time Biala talks about his master race, I get reminded how my people(one half of them anyway) had his people licking our bootstraps until like 20 years ago!

Perhaps Putin will be visiting them very soon, and teach them who is the master race, indeed! :)
 BialaPolska
Joined: 5/20/2015
Msg: 197
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 7/30/2015 8:34:54 PM
Interesting for the afore posting anti Whites to note. Putin has been instrumental in teaming with Merkel to invade 99% Christian , white Poland , Estonia , Latvia and Lithuania with non whites. More stalwart than lax Americans ; the Balts have refused the blacks and browns entry. If the politically correct anti whites from above wish to prove their afection for the non white , let them move to Detroit or perhaps Baltimore.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 198
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 8/1/2015 4:09:46 PM

Interesting for the afore posting anti Whites to note.

Now see...? No wonder we've been butting heads here... You've completely missed the point...

The position isn't "anti-white"... It's "anti-racist stupid fvck"... No wonder you're so upset... We weren't contradicting you because you're white... Farthest thing from our minds... Gee whiz, I'm so sorry you thought we were attacking you for being white...

Whew... Glad we got that straightened out...
 BialaPolska
Joined: 5/20/2015
Msg: 199
The confederate flag debate
Posted: 8/1/2015 5:14:11 PM
^ No . Still confused ; your posts are so anti white ; I thought you were a non white posting somone else's pic. You know , some times the variation gets fuzzy. Most detractors either have culturally become non white or will just be happy to be accepted somwhere ; as that being their flaw.
 congupnaroad
Joined: 7/22/2015
Msg: 200
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The confederate flag debate
Posted: 8/1/2015 6:13:08 PM

^ No . Still confused ; your posts are so anti white ; I thought you were a non white posting somone else's pic. You know , some times the variation gets fuzzy. Most detractors either have culturally become non white or will just be happy to be accepted somwhere ; as that being their flaw


I know the perfect place where you would feel comfortable! The South Island of New Zealand. About 93% of the population are white.

For some reason they have so far been exempt from the Cultural Replacement Program aka Multiculturalism so prevalent in most Western countries.
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