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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Planned parent hood selling off fetus "parts"      Home login  
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 villabolos
Joined: 7/24/2015
Msg: 276
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.Page 12 of 14    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14)
So what you are saying then marrakech, is every baby has a price on their head.
You are also implying that abortions are sought because they can't afford the kid. You couldn't be more wrong on that assertion.
So it is okay to kill, but it is not okay for the U.S. to put a wall on their borders??
Since it is all about the money, what about the hundreds of millions of dollars a year of taxpayer money the U.S. spends on illegal aliens??
Can we just start killing them to rid ourselves of those expenses/leaches???
I am from Texas..I have a lot of guns...and I mean a lot!! I'd love to get some more use out of them. Around here, I'd get a lot of use.
 BBEisBack
Joined: 9/16/2015
Msg: 277
view profile
History
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 1/29/2016 2:50:07 PM

Posted By:villabolos
So what you are saying then marrakech, is every baby has a price on their head.
You are also implying that abortions are sought because they can't afford the kid. You couldn't be more wrong on that assertion.
So it is okay to kill, but it is not okay for the U.S. to put a wall on their borders??
Since it is all about the money, what about the hundreds of millions of dollars a year of taxpayer money the U.S. spends on illegal aliens??
Can we just start killing them to rid ourselves of those expenses/leaches???
I am from Texas..I have a lot of guns...and I mean a lot!! I'd love to get some more use out of them. Around here, I'd get a lot of use.


You're Sick, sick, Man.......
The type that gives the Average Gun Owner a Bad Name...........

I own Guns & am Well Trained in there use..... I'm willing & Capable of using them to protect My Life & those around me......

There is no way I look forward to do that.....
 marrakech7
Joined: 1/13/2016
Msg: 278
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 1/30/2016 9:12:01 AM
Msg. 296. No you crazy MF, I didn't say every baby has a price on its head. See, folks like you don't agree with abortion but you also don't agree with paying welfare to raise that child. Hell, you don't want to pay for birth control for the poor or health care or education. Hell, you wouldn't even adopt a child or foster a child. It might take away from funds for your ammunition and more guns. Do your guns make you feel like you're a big man, extension of your penis? Nice.
 TrvstInKarma
Joined: 9/1/2015
Msg: 279
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 1/31/2016 1:36:20 PM
I'm not pro abortion, but I'm also not against it. I'm tired of people just being against it though without offering a good alternative. BigBadnIrish had it right - if you are soooooo concerned about the unborn, start to give a crap about the ones that are already born. The US is the only western country with no paid maternity leave. Access to affordable health care is still a problem for many. The poverty rate of single mothers is extremely high. CHild care is very, very expensive. Fix this first before going on about how horrible abortion is.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 280
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 1/31/2016 1:45:13 PM

BigBadnIrish had it right - if you are soooooo concerned about the unborn, start to give a crap about the ones that are already born. The US is the only western country with no paid maternity leave. Access to affordable health care is still a problem for many. The poverty rate of single mothers is extremely high. CHild care is very, very expensive. Fix this first before going on about how horrible abortion is.

Yeah... That's not gonna happen... For two reasons...

a) It means actually DOING something... and more to the point... doing something that involves "giving"... what they don't want to give... to people they don't like...

2) It doesn't give them that warm fuzzy... "I'm goin' to heaven for sure now" feeling...
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 281
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 1/31/2016 2:51:23 PM
I am not pro-abortion...not now-not ever. But I am pro-choice. I believe in a woman deciding, for herself, her own healthcare choices. Margaret Sanger said it very accurately:



We now know that there never can be a free humanity until woman is freed from ignorance, and we know, too, that woman can never call herself free until she is mistress of her own body. Just so long as man dictates and controls the standards of sex morality, just so long will man control the world.

Birth control is the first important step woman must take toward the goal of her freedom. It is the first step she must take to be man's equal. It is the first step they must both take toward human emancipation.


There are plenty of unwanted children born who eventually make their way into the foster care system. I know this for a fact and anyone who wishes to dispute this fact is free to google the numbers of children in the foster care system today, and the vast cost of this system to the tax payer which completely discounts the even larger cost to society. This is why I continually ask those who scream "pro-life" what they've done to help the live unwanted child-those children that are in the foster care system today. If you're "pro-life" have you adopted? Have you fostered? Have you mentored? Are you a big brother/sister? But, never has any "pro-lifer" here in the forums answered. And I take the lack of an answer as an answer of a "BIG FAT NO!!!" These "pro-lifers" lift not one of their big fat fingers to help the unwanted child-BUT, they want some 15 year old girl to bring an unwanted child into the world, take care of that child, and rise above poverty. I'm here to tell those "pro-lifers" to face up to the fact that it is not going to happen. Why don't "pro-lifers" adopt, foster, mentor? Joe's got it right:



a) It means actually DOING something... and more to the point... doing something that involves "giving"... what they don't want to give... to people they don't like...

2) It doesn't give them that warm fuzzy... "I'm goin' to heaven for sure now" feeling...


I am a pro-choice person and I've fostered one child, whom I adopted, and have another adopted child who is now an adult. I give a shyte about the live child-which is more than I can say about the "pro-lifers" here!!!!!!
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 282
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/1/2016 3:34:02 AM
Tristyn wrote, "" I'm not pro abortion, but I'm also not against it. I'm tired of people just being against it though without offering a good alternative. BigBadnIrish had it right - if you are soooooo concerned about the unborn, start to give a crap about the ones that are already born. The US is the only western country with no paid maternity leave. Access to affordable health care is still a problem for many. The poverty rate of single mothers is extremely high. Child care is very, very expensive. Fix this first before going on about how horrible abortion is."""

As I said, let women kill as many babies as they want.

However, is there really a correlation between poor alive children and the aborted?
How many women get abortions because they are concerned about the economic of the child? It is the economics of the parents, often. (I can't travel the world or buy that BMW. Ooooooh. Maybe that affair was not a good idea, etc.))
Many are for convenience, child gender and order, and "just can't be bothered." Many women and couples more than capable financially of raising a child abort because they just don't want it?
All fine.
Let's just not make out that the abortion rate has much to do with children in the system.

Are you saying that poor people shouldn't have kids? I know some amazing and also some capitalism standard successful people who grew up very very poor.

And I agree with Onyx in this respect, well, as it applies to child bearing with respect to cost of day care and maternity leave-
Think about that before you get pregnant.

It is not society's job to provide you with the means to lesson the result of choices that you made (free birth control, free abortions, free child care, etc. And extended leave can be a point of discussion or job selection. I have known many women who changed jobs for that very reason when they wanted more leave.Others just take what little leave they have and figure it out. It takes a village...)
( How to teach such better decision-making in communities with third generation 16 year old mothers is another topic for another thread, I imagine)

Does aborting make poor women less poor?

As far a single mothers, that sounds like a choice. Why not marry before getting in a "possibly will be with child" situation? No, that does not mean virginity. It means wise decisions about actions, birth control, etc ( Lets not talk about the 15% that fails. That does not address the abortion rate.). How about marrying so that you at least start out with a father?

Again, women should be able to abort all that they want.

But it is discussed as if it is some noble decision as opposed a choice of how to address some issue that was created.
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 283
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Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/1/2016 8:40:13 AM
If a woman wants a BMW instead of a baby, she's hardly a good maternal candidate.

"How about marrying so that you at least start out with a father?"

Marriage doesn't make much difference in whether men will disappear when faced with parenting.

Lots of mothers think they will still have their man around when the baby comes, only to find they vanish when they learn of the pregnancy. Part of that is that men, unlike women, still have no choice about supporting a child or offering it up for adoption; in fact, men in most of the US can't even ask for custody of a child a woman wants to adopt out. The argument is made that the woman might know the man is a bad bet for a father - but the same can be said for the man thinking the woman unsuited. This is one of the remaining unresolved problems from the sexual and gender revolution.

"As far a single mothers, that sounds like a choice."

Indeed, some women choose to have children on their own. They aren't the ones wanting abortions.

More than half of US babies are unplanned; the vast majority of those are unintended, and some proportion are created where one partner wants a child and the other does not (but is not the one handling birth control).

CHILDREN ARE NOT PUNISHMENT FOR SEX. They don't deserve to be treated that way. There is nothing criminal in not wanting to have children; there is something very wrong in having children and not providing for them.

"extended leave can be a point of discussion or job selection"

And it can thus be an effective barrier to women getting good jobs in many industries.

"Does aborting make poor women less poor?"

Yes. Simply yes.

ED BEAR
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 284
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/1/2016 9:43:32 AM

If a woman wants a BMW instead of a baby, she's hardly a good maternal candidate.


I got a good chuckle at that one Ed. I also wondered when the 67% of women having abortion, who are at or below the poverty line, would be going on their world cruise?

From guttmacher:

WHO HAS ABORTIONS?

• Eighteen percent of U.S. women obtaining abortions are teenagers; those aged 15–17 obtain 6% of all abortions, 18–19-year-olds obtain 11%, and teens younger than 15 obtain 0.4%.[3]
• Women in their 20s account for more than half of all abortions: Women aged 20–24 obtain 33% of all abortions, and women aged 25–29 obtain 24%.[3]
• Non-Hispanic white women account for 36% of abortions, non-Hispanic black women for 30%, Hispanic women for 25% and women of other races for 9%.[3]
• Thirty-seven percent of women obtaining abortions identify as Protestant and 28% identify as Catholic.[3]
• Women who have never married and are not cohabiting account for 45% of all abortions. [3]
• About 61% of abortions are obtained by women who have one or more children. [3]
• Forty-two percent of women obtaining abortions have incomes below 100% of the federal poverty level ($10,830 for a single woman with no children).[3]
• Twenty-seven percent of women obtaining abortions have incomes between 100–199% of the federal poverty level. * [3]

• The reasons women give for having an abortion underscore their understanding of the responsibilities of parenthood and family life. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner.[6]
• Fifty-one percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method in the month they got pregnant, most commonly condoms (27%) or a hormonal method (17%).[7]


67% at or below the poverty level and 18% teenagers.



"Does aborting make poor women less poor?"
Yes. Simply yes.


Quite right Ed. Here's some economic data on poor women who have abortions versus those that don't from the American Public Health Association;


One year later, 86% of women denied an abortion were living with the baby; 11% had placed the baby for adoption. Women denied abortion were more likely to be receiving public assistance (76% vs. 44%) and have household income below the FPL (67% vs. 56%) than women who received an abortion. The proportion of women denied an abortion who were working full time was lower than among women who received an abortion (48% vs. 58%).


Poor women who give birth are more likely to put their child up for adoption, receive public assistance, continue into poverty, and have higher unemployment. It never amazes me any more what stupid comments posters here will make.

I continue to as those here that are "pro-life": Have you adopted a child? Fostered a child? Been a mentor to a child? Been a big brother/sister to a child? The deafening silence means that the answer to all my questions are a BIG FAT NO...in other words, all these "pro-life" posters spout a bunch of empty words trying to make themselves feel good
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 285
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/1/2016 10:48:02 AM


Again, women should be able to abort all that they want.

yes

But it is discussed as if it is some noble decision


noble? that's erroneous, you are entitled to your beliefs and opinions but please stop attributing your perceptions and assumptions as reality, your religious values aren't germane to PP and a woman's right to choose


Why not marry before getting in a "possibly will be with child" situation?


"with child" . . cut the xtian claptrap
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 286
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/1/2016 10:54:40 AM
What does religion have to do with this? Did I mention religion?

Ed: correct. That is why I said "start out with, " which you correctly quoted.

All studies that I have seen find that children do better with a father and mother married. If you know of another, please share. I am always interested.

Who said that children are punishment?

A woman who chooses to be single and childless SHOULD have more career options.

I would venture to guess that in ten percent or less of the "unplanned pregnancies" that the act was unplanned or without consent, at least in the West.

Again, Ed, if you have other info, please share.

 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 287
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/1/2016 11:03:20 AM

What does religion have to do with this? Did I mention religion?


it doesn't unless you are religious, why else would you keep repeating yourself about "murder" and the sanctity of
"marriage", all religious constructs, but you know that, it's just that your nipples get erect from being purposely obtuse
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 288
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Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/1/2016 11:06:40 AM
I remember reading about gender selective abortions in the uk a wee while back. Certain cultures value male children over female children. And I'm no sure why but i get this nagging wee feeling that the women involved did not all have free choice in the matter.


"The illegal abortion of female foetuses solely to ensure that families have sons is widely practised within some ethnic communities in Britain and has resulted in significant shortfalls in the proportion of girls, according to an investigation by The Independent.

"The practice of sex-selective abortion is now so commonplace that it has affected the natural 50:50 balance of boys to girls within some immigrant groups and has led to the “disappearance” of between 1,400 and 4,700 females from the national census records of England and Wales, we can reveal.

However, our deeper statistical analysis of data from the 2011 National Census has shown widespread discrepancies in the sex ratio of children in some immigrant families, which can only be easily explained by women choosing to abort female foetuses in the hope of becoming quickly pregnant again with a boy."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-lost-girls-illegal-abortion-widely-used-by-some-uk-ethnic-groups-to-avoid-daughters-has-reduced-9059790.html
 marrakech7
Joined: 1/13/2016
Msg: 289
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/1/2016 11:59:46 AM
^^^. This is happening in areas of Canada as well. Last I heard, in Vancouver, B.C. they would not tell you the gender after an ultrasound. I disagree with gender selection e abortions.

Actually, I wish there were no abortions BUT, don't take away the option. Choice is a beautiful word, just like the word freedom.
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 290
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/1/2016 2:10:06 PM

I remember reading about gender selective abortions in the uk a wee while back. Certain cultures value male children over female children. And I'm no sure why but i get this nagging wee feeling that the women involved did not all have free choice in the matter.


I 'spect you'd be wrong.

When I lived and taught in China, there was a ring of doctors and hospitals in the North East that were doing that. They were arrested and did some big jail time. My students, male AND female were having a difficult time understanding why that wasn't a good thing. In China, you raise a girl child at your expense and then give her away at her marriage to spend the rest of her life taking care of her husband's parents. Your sons stay in your family and care for you in your old age.

I remember asking my students to close their eyes an imagine a future where every child's sex was in fact chosen by the parents. . . . One by one their eyes flew open, and a look of horror took over their faces, as each one realized that any generation that was allowed to do that would be the LAST generation. Ever. Not only no mothers, grandmothers or aunts, also no fathers, grandfathers or uncles. No families at all--only millions and millions of single males looking for the wife who no longer existed.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 291
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Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/1/2016 3:22:36 PM
Wooby
I 'spect you'd be wrong."

I appreciate that you lived and worked in china and have first hand experience but there is lots of organisations and evidence which states otherwise. I tend to think that there is a major problem amongst certain cultures regarding female children.


"The war on baby girls Gendercide
Killed, aborted or neglected, at least 100m girls have disappeared—and the number is rising."
http://www.economist.com/node/15606229


"New technology combined with ancient prejudices are producing communities in Asia with thousands more men than women, it has emerged.
Ultrasound scans which can detect the sex of babies have contributed to a massive rise in abortions of female foetuses in cultures which value males much more highly.

In China and Northern India, more than 120 boys are now being born for every 100 girls - up from an imbalance of 108 boys to every 100 girls in the 1980s, according to statistics published in The Economist.
These rates are biologically impossible without human intervention.

Statistics from the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences - published by The Economist - estimate that by 2020, China will have 30million-40million more men aged 19 and below than women in the same age group."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255789/Gendercide-Asia-Massive-rise-abortion-female-foetuses.html#ixzz3yxeJzPjp
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 292
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/1/2016 5:51:06 PM
Sorry, vlad, didn't make myself clear: I have no doubt at all that it's happening. I'd just observe that the mothers are in large part in agreement. *They* wish to be taken care of in old age, too. And a daughter isn't going to do it.

Changing a whole culture to value different things, or even to do small things differently, is incredibly difficult.
 villabolos
Joined: 7/24/2015
Msg: 293
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/5/2016 7:22:24 AM
There was a big story in the Houston paper this morning about the charges that have been brought against the man and woman who made the planned parenthood videos.
The DA offered them a deal to where they'd most likely never spend one day in jail. They declined and hired some hot-shot lawyers and are going to fight it out in court. They said they are going to demand an apology from the DA(very pro-life by the way) when this is all said and done.

Should be interesting to follow!!
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 294
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/5/2016 12:18:55 PM
Brilliant.
For them.
Now they get to put the whole uncut version of the recording in a court record. They also get several days to schpiel.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 295
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/5/2016 4:13:07 PM
They're never going to allow anyone to see the uncut footage. They would destroy it before that would happen.
 jaja808
Joined: 12/11/2015
Msg: 296
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/6/2016 1:16:59 AM
I don't understand how anyone can justify abortion other than maybe you all weren't raised right. How could one judge the worth of someones life based on money or potential future hardships? Material wealth does not qualify one's worth as a human being. Don't people like to base a person's worth on their kindness, empathy, generosity, and service to others? Abortion is not kind. It is not generous. It doesn't give hope.

Want to argue about something? Go tell your congress person to allocate money to the foster care system. Spend money recruiting foster homes and adoptive parents. Teach your children that sex before marriage does not equal love and giving it away won't buy you love. Teach your children empathy that one day they too might find the love and courage to adopt a child or become a foster parent.

Do not condemn the misguided, show them a better way.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 297
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/6/2016 6:30:36 AM

Don't people like to base a person's worth on their kindness, empathy, generosity, and service to others?

Well then, please... tell us all about a fetus' "kindness, empathy, generosity and service to others"...

Maybe you can give us some examples... of a fetus being "kind"...

No...? How about fetal "generosity"...?

No...? Well certainly you can find an example of fetal "service to others"...
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 298
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History
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/6/2016 11:01:05 AM
So if you teach your children not to give love/sex away, what are you teaching them instead? Shouldn't you be teaching your children self-worth and not what you are suggesting, that what you think is right or wrong, better be the same for the rest of humans?
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 299
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/6/2016 3:36:39 PM

I don't understand how anyone can justify abortion other than maybe you all weren't raised right. How could one judge the worth of someones life based on money or potential future hardships? Material wealth does not qualify one's worth as a human being. Don't people like to base a person's worth on their kindness, empathy, generosity, and service to others? Abortion is not kind. It is not generous. It doesn't give hope.

Want to argue about something? Go tell your congress person to allocate money to the foster care system. Spend money recruiting foster homes and adoptive parents. Teach your children that sex before marriage does not equal love and giving it away won't buy you love. Teach your children empathy that one day they too might find the love and courage to adopt a child or become a foster parent.

Do not condemn the misguided, show them a better way.


as an atheist you don't see me trying to convince any of the religious billions on this planet that they "weren't raised right" for indoctrinating their young into believing any of the mythological faiths as actually being factual.. i could, but i don't

"teach your children well . ."
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 300
Planned parent hood claims are false, proven now.
Posted: 2/11/2016 5:40:22 AM
There is a new study out in the New England Journal of Medicine concerning the results of Texas defunding Planned Parenthood. It seems that when Texas defunded Planned Parenthood contraception use declined resulting in an increase in medicaid births...Good job Texas, way to keep generational welfare in place!


In conclusion, the implementation of the 2013 exclusion of Planned Parenthood affiliates from a Medicaid waiver program in Texas was associated with adverse changes in the rates of provision and continuation of contraception and with increases in the rate of childbirth covered by Medicaid. These findings have implications regarding the likely consequences of proposals to exclude Planned Parenthood affiliates from public funding in other states or at the national level.
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