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Show ALL Forums  > Over 45  > It looks like POF has already made some changes.      Home login  
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 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 225
It looks like POF has already made some changes.Page 10 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
I don't know about other Locations, but here, You can be Arrested on a MDV Charge for just words....

All it takes is to tell the other Person that they are not Free to Leave.....

You don't have to Block Their way, Their Belief that They can't leave, is enough.....

ETA: Some People are True Believers & nothing will Change Their Minds.... You see that in threads here all the Time......
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 226
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/30/2015 2:49:06 PM
Let me say this....regardless of gender, if the aggressor is dead set on physically attacking another person the ability to just restrain without some type of counter attack to achieve the restraint is almost impossible.

Exactly the reason LE uses tasers and pepper spray. The primary goal is negating the need to put your hands on the aggressor in a combative mode.

The use of a taser is third on the use of force continuum behind verbal commands and soft hand holds on a lot of depts. now, once non compliance is is established and a combative or defensive posture taken (example...wrist and elbow hold to escort, or in the case of an initially non combative subject who's actions indicate physical actions are imminent or is getting happy feet.....take to the ground) a combatant intent upon inflicting injury will continue the assault until physically rendered unable to do so.

I don't base this on statistics or studies, but on personally having to deal with those types of encounters hundreds of times, and witnessing the ongoing fight as well as the aftermath of DV cases.

My experience has shown the key to avoiding physical violence is not participating in the verbal the majority of the time. Just leave if you have the opportunity.

@blueeyes, here the charge is false imprisonment OCG 16-5-41
 Peas_
Joined: 5/2/2015
Msg: 227
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/31/2015 6:17:13 AM
CC...I have a problem with the word "combative". Frequently, this word is also used in the healthcare field. In the last 15 years this word for the police has turned into "combat" and military tactics, swat teams against the general public. This was not the way it was when I was growing up in the suburbs.

Being that my father was a cop, I grew up in a very strict household. My sister and I had special rules the boys didn't. ...anyways...there was some massive respect going on for what my father put up with all day, actually two jobs, County full time Deputy Sheriff, and one part time 2nd shift for a township. Brown and Blue uniforms he had. He dealt with "idiot public" and their problems all day. When he came home for supper in between jobs at 4 pm, and supper was on the table and he was changing, all us kids would run to our rooms as soon as we heard the keys and leather belt jingle as he came through the door. Ma would call us for supper after dad was at the table already....he retired at age 52 and had his first heart attack at age 57. Which is predictive age for the stress of that job for causing heart attacks.

So back to the combative word. My bro is suing a city within Milw. for beating him on his front steps with billy clubs, because he refused to open his front door of his house to bring out his ADHD son when firecrackers were heard in the neighborhood. My nephew had no firecrackers. My bro has vicious dogs, he knew he couldn't control them. The officer was hollering at my bro about the son. My bro asked him to stop hollering. So 6 neighbors witnessed this unlawful beating which broke my bro's ribs...If my father would've been alive he would have been sickened by such disrespect to the public.

We are not the enemy. Not combat constituents. The public is not military.

I expect my bro to win his case. There have been other cases against this particular officer too. One including him bashing a man's head into a fire hydrant in front of that guy's son. Bro has a high power attorney who always wins these types of cases. Judges think twice about this one.
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 228
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/31/2015 7:16:58 AM

CC...I have a problem with the word "combative".


Substitute the word fighting then.

In no way am I condoning excessive use of force by any LE officer. If he's in the wrong he needs to be held accountable.

The point is, that to facilitate an arrest where someone is fighting, the response has to be one level higher to bring a conclusion to the altercation.

There's also a difference between fighting and resisting. There's probably hundreds...heck maybe thousands here who could beat me in a fight in spite of all my training and experience, but there's no one here that could stop me from resisting without resorting to an offensive attack...none.

I had a similar conversation with another forum member offline the other day......I can't imagine anyone wanting to get into law enforcement in this day and age. It used to be somewhat of a noble endeavor, not anymore. You're a walking lottery jackpot for someone, everybody's video taping your every move...your dept. the guy on the corner while you have someone stopped and on and on.

I could only imagine what people would think of surgeons if they were video taped the entire time they were operating on someone, you really think all they say is scalpel, forceps? I've been in the operating room when bullets have been removed for chain of custody and I was a little surprised at where the convo went at times. You would absolutely detest some medical examiners and assistants after listening to and watching them slice and dice a body.

You think all those "in my chambers" meetings with attorneys and judges are quoting case law all the time? Oh if some of those were videotaped!

Hopefully your brothers case will be handled appropriately and justice served.
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 229
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/31/2015 8:00:01 AM

I had a similar conversation with another forum member offline the other day......I can't imagine anyone wanting to get into law enforcement in this day and age. It used to be somewhat of a noble endeavor, not anymore. You're a walking lottery jackpot for someone, everybody's video taping your every move...your dept. the guy on the corner while you have someone stopped and on and on.


I know lots of young people trying to get in because they are still considered prime jobs compared to many other jobs out there. Also, why worry about being videotaped if you are doing your job properly. Any valued job makes a person a potential target. Professionals who screw up are always subject to being sued and held accountable. That's what insurance is for. Agree about the nobility. But I never saw law enforcement as a "noble" calling. Simply a job that had good and bad, much like all jobs. Nothing out there is Noble, except possibly being something like a Nun. People simply want to earn a living.


I could only imagine what people would think of surgeons if they were video taped the entire time they were operating on someone, you really think all they say is scalpel, forceps?


Surgeons need to keep meticulous records of what they are doing, and there are generally witnesses . . scrub nurses, etc. So they too are always being scrutinized. Of course, oftentimes when they screw up, as they often do, the evidence dies with their patients.


I've been in the operating room when bullets have been removed for chain of custody and I was a little surprised at where the convo went at times. You would absolutely detest some medical examiners and assistants after listening to and watching them slice and dice a body.


I am not shocked about the conversations that go on, but I am shocked they would allow LE in an operating room during surgery. Chain of Custody does not require that breach of medical protocol.


You think all those "in my chambers" meetings with attorneys and judges are quoting case law all the time? Oh if some of those were videotaped!


I have had hundreds of these "in chamber" meetings, and almost always they are on a professional level where there is argument over facts, case law and decisions by a Judge. Some Judges are obviously far more competent than others, but still the proceedings are generally on a professional level. I would guess that might not always be the case in some small towns . . but by and large . . Judges who don't watch themselves will be brought up before a Judicial Qualification Committee . . .if the lawyers have any balls anyway.

I once dealt with a Judge who was totally unqualified to sit on the bench. She was incapable of making decisions. It was the first time in my career I threatened a Judge and told her if she did not make a decision within ten days, I would take it to a higher Court. But that was a very, very unusual situation and I felt I had no choice but to go there. Most judges try to do their jobs best they can ....in my experience.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 230
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/31/2015 8:08:24 AM
There's always been an understanding that the exercise of power needs to be done openly and in public. Sunshine is the best disinfectant is the most common expression used to describe this. It's why Parliament has viewers galleries; why courtrooms are open to the public. The recognition of this goes back millenia, and comes from the experience of what happens when power is exercised secretly.

Police who are concerned that they might be held accountable for their exercise of power probably shouldn't be given that power. Best to keep those people out anyway.
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 231
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/31/2015 9:21:39 AM

But I never saw law enforcement as a "noble" calling.


Fair enough, I've thought the same thing of attorneys when I've heard a couple mention that.


I once dealt with a Judge who was totally unqualified to sit on the bench.


So even in your little corner of the world you've experienced this. Safe to say it might be a little more than that nationwide?


I am not shocked about the conversations that go on, but I am shocked they would allow LE in an operating room during surgery. Chain of Custody does not require that breach of medical protocol.


Regardless, I was and did.


Also, why worry about being videotaped if you are doing your job properly.


Who said anything about being worried? Even the poster below insinuates that's what the issue is. I've never said that.

Personally I hope that every officer is body cam equipped so that these unfounded complaints and street video's that never start until after the confrontations already escalated can be dismissed accordingly. If an officers violates policy he should be held accountable, I've always said that and there's not been a time that I haven't.
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 232
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/31/2015 9:35:00 AM

I've thought the same thing of attorneys when I've heard a couple mention that.


That's because so many attorneys are completely full of sh*t. There are a few who enter law school with noble aspirations. But most of them quickly find out that being a lawyer has nothing to do with nobility and besides, law school is so expensive these days that it has to be about the money.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 233
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/31/2015 10:12:22 AM

Personally I hope that every officer is body cam equipped so that these unfounded complaints and street video's that never start until after the confrontations already escalated can be dismissed accordingly. If an officers violates policy he should be held accountable, I've always said that and there's not been a time that I haven't.


Exactly. It protects everybody, including the cop.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 234
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/31/2015 10:47:45 AM

I could only imagine what people would think of surgeons if they were video taped the entire time they were operating on someone, you really think all they say is scalpel, forceps? I've been in the operating room when bullets have been removed for chain of custody and I was a little surprised at where the convo went at times. You would absolutely detest some medical examiners and assistants after listening to and watching them slice and dice a body.


Patient wins lawsuit after anesthesiologist mocks him during surgery

http://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2015/06/patient-gets-payoff-after-anesthesiologist-mocks-him-during-surgery/

WASHINGTON — A Vienna, Virginia man has been awarded $500,000 after an anesthesiologist repeatedly mocked and insulted him while the man was sedated during a colonoscopy.

The patient had hit “record” on his smartphone’s audio recorder before surgery, and tucked it in his pants beneath a table in a Reston medical suite, because he wanted to preserve instructions his doctor would give him after the procedure.

On his way home, as he listened to the recording, he heard the medical professionals make fun of him, hypothesize that he had serious diseases, and place a false diagnosis on his chart, according to The Washington Post.

“After five minutes of talking to you in pre-op I wanted to punch you in the face and man you up a little bit,” the anesthesiologist told the sedated patient.

When an assistant pointed out a rash, the anesthesiologist, Tiffany Ingham, warned her not to touch it saying she might get “some syphilis on your arm or something.”
=======================================
The story goes on to describe more details.
=======================================
BTW, I was a professional engineer in telecommunications, like SBC, Verizon, I would earn between 60K - 140K and I can't imagine getting sued for anything. Fired maybe , sued no. But maybe if I punched out a manager I could get sued?, however being a professional wouldn't make a difference in being sued.

So I can't see that all professionals are equally at risk for being sued.
 tallish3243
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 235
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/31/2015 10:52:19 AM
Professionals along the lines of self employed, or lawyers, doctors, accountants, pharmacists, etc. If you work for a fortune five hundred company and design a product that causes injury, you could be sued. But generally the lawyer will be content suing the deep pocketed corporate defendant.
 rennips1949
Joined: 3/6/2015
Msg: 236
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/31/2015 11:35:57 AM
As far s I am concerned-that is to say, in my personal humble opinion-those who protect and serve and those who read the law are deserving of respectand that is what they will receive from me.
What you do with a barrel of apples is sort out the bad ones, not throw out the whole bushel and then p*ss and moan because you have no apples.
I would think the same would apply to law enforcement, attorneys, and many other professional or technical occupations.
Or does that make too much sense for some folks to grasp?
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 237
view profile
History
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/31/2015 12:15:04 PM

We are not the enemy. Not combat constituents. The public is not military.


Apparently, you haven't been to some areas of The Bronx back in the day!:)

Most of the teams here with the heavy weapons(Hercules teams) are there for show to scare terrorists, or to calm the public. Tourists seem to like it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41zJDagsFOM

But there are also mobilizations where it is "hats and bats" , numerous times in the week for various reasons.

The people have gotten use to the daily (at least 2x a day) Surge Drills. Basically, 2x a day close to 100 vehicles will descend upon a high risk target both for practice and usually there is a "tip".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cI8L8S2scU

All these operations are only going to probably increase in the future.



Let me say this....regardless of gender, if the aggressor is dead set on physically attacking another person the ability to just restrain without some type of counter attack to achieve the restraint is almost impossible.


Yep, one has to usually counter with a higher level of force.


The use of a taser is third on the use of force continuum behind verbal commands and soft hand holds on a lot of depts. now, once non compliance is is established and a combative or defensive posture taken (example...wrist and elbow hold to escort, or in the case of an initially non combative subject who's actions indicate physical actions are imminent or is getting happy feet.....take to the ground) a combatant intent upon inflicting injury will continue the assault until physically rendered unable to do so.


We don't have tasers ( they think like little children we would taser each other all day) so after verbal, we go right to either physical or OC spRay. We don't even consider OC spray force usage, and all it requires is a memo book entry, so it is similar to verbal. That is why cops often will spray people during protests here. You can do it, get compliance, and then walk away to spray the next guy/gal.

For example, you tell a guy to leave the subway car ,and he doesn't leave( happens 100+ times per day) you can spray to get compliance and let him just walk away. But if we actually put hands on the guy to escort him out, we are basically going to collar him in most cases to cover our behind. As you very well know , soft hands leads to fights often enough.

conclusion: comply and you won't be touched!
Show ALL Forums  > Over 45  > It looks like POF has already made some changes.