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Show ALL Forums  > Over 45  > It looks like POF has already made some changes.      Home login  
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 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 101
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It looks like POF has already made some changes.Page 5 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
Example of direct female violence.

I was about 19, I was leaving a minor league baseball game in Omaha, Nebraska. There was a domestic fight ( man / woman) in the parking lot. They were screaming at each other, the woman was trying to grab something in the man’s hand (car keys?), the man shoved her pretty hard and she fell down.

Being young and stupid, I walked over, stood between the two of them, and advised them to cool down. The woman jumped up off the ground, and leaped on my back, wrapping both legs around me, pulling my hair and pounding the side of my head. I said something like, “somebody get this crazy b____ off of me!” The man says, “Don’t call my wife a b____!” and takes a swing at me.

The cops took us all down to the station to sort it out. No one was actually hurt, and I did not get booked, but I learned a very valuable lesson. Never, ever get between a man and woman who are fighting.

Example of indirect female violence.

I was in some podunk town in Oklahoma, waiting to catch a bus to get back to Texas. It was about 3 p.m. on a Sunday afternoon, and I had 3 hours to kill, so I walked down the street and found a bar. There was a good looking young woman, hanging out with two men. She takes offense at me looking at her cleavage – no, I wasn’t leering, yes, I did look. She wants her two male companions to “pound his ass”. I leave quickly, all 3 follow me outside, where the woman is still trying to instigate violence. Luckily, the bartender had called the police, who arrived and broke it up.

From which I learned two valuable lessons:
1) Stay out of podunk towns in Oklahoma
2) If you can’t manage to follow rule number 1, then for damn sure stay out of redneck bars in said podunk town
 rennips1949
Joined: 3/6/2015
Msg: 102
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/22/2015 11:51:47 AM
Looks like the OP spoke too soon.
Is that the world's smallest violin I hear playing?
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 103
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/22/2015 12:00:18 PM

One study can say anything. Common sense, life experience, and intelligence says something different.

.....................................................................

The problem with this attitude is that while a study throws up facts, common sense, life experience, an intelligence throws up opinions. This argument has in the past resulted in the murder of thousands of people for things like witchcraft. It still happens today.


Your opinion that the expression about " a woman scorned" means that women are as aggressive as men is an example of an opinion not backed up by anything.

I have no issue with "studies" (plural) plural carried out over time by multiple sources. I would NOT draw a conclusion based one ONE study. Who did the study? Who PAID for the study? Who participated in the study? I am sure there are some mean and nasty ****es out there who are more aggressive than their partners, but it makes no sense to suggest from one study that all women, or even most women, are as aggressive as most men.


Well, here is my life experience: I have been physically assaulted exactly once in my life. It was by a woman I did not know while walking down the street.


I wonder how often that happens? Seriously. I am not being flip, here. A random man walking down the street, woman comes out of nowhere for no reason and assaults you? Huh. Was she attempting to rob you? Or was is violence for the sake of violence? Did she want to rape you? Did she utter sexual obscenities while she assaulted you?

A completely random physical attack by a woman on a man...I wonder it one in half a million might be close? Seriously, not being sarcastic!

I don't want to overshare, and it't not a contest, but I was physically assaulted by men I did not know on three occasions over my life...so if you and I just looked at our own personal data, the occurrence of male on female violence is three times that of female on male violence.


Of course, I generally prefer to look at statistics before making a judgement. Common sense is known to be unreliable, intelligence is highly variable from person to person, and personal experience depends on the specific path in life you happen to travel.


Statistics make no sense unless you apply common sense and intelligence when choosing which ones are actually unbiased and meaningful.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 104
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/22/2015 12:30:20 PM

As our society has become more civilized, this has given women more ability to express their aggression. Women can express their aggression on the Internet, in the courts,etc. AND I believe women are generally better than most men at being verbally and emotionally aggressive, and of using rules/ laws to express their aggression through proxies. You can see this on the forum, women are pretty aggressive and more sophisticated at it.


I agree that in the areas you mention women are often aggressive as men. I am not sure that's a BAD thing, either. ONE of the definitions of aggression is "forceful and sometimes overly assertive pursuit of one's aims and interests." As long as we are not talking about physical violence, or breaking any laws, there's nothing inherently "wrong" with aggression. I'm thinking about an aggressive sales person, or basketball player, for example.


I will easily acknowledge that a man is more often physically aggressive in everything EXCEPT romantic relationships, and more dangerous when they get physical.


Just to be clear, are you saying that in male-female partnerships, women commit PHYSICAL domestic abuse as often as men do? Is THAT what you want to suggest?


More surprisingly, women are also just as likely as men to express hostility—in this case physically—in the context of a romantic relationship.


That would be WAY beyond surprising, if it were true, which it isn't. Just because you read it somewhere on the internet doesn't mean it's true, even if it fits your agenda.
 rearguard*2
Joined: 2/8/2008
Msg: 105
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It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/22/2015 1:07:49 PM

Just because you read it somewhere on the internet doesn't mean it's true, even if it fits your agenda.


It appears to me that anything you might read that is contrary to an opinion espoused by NOG lacks common sense or intelligence.

It also appears that my life experiences have no validity, however those of others are golden.

Common sense, eh? You can't have it both ways. Either studies tell the "truth" or, if you don't like the truth, they are false.....
 Whistle_Stop
Joined: 4/9/2015
Msg: 106
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/22/2015 1:14:56 PM

Whistle Stop, I want to publicly apologize to you about any acrimony in the past- I never disliked you at all...

Oh hell...Ms. Kitty...I'll live.....I'm a tough old broad....no apology necessary.
Like C.C. said...I can usually handle any tiff just fine......there's just those times a person has to walk away.
I am not gender based if I don't agree with something and I do try to be fair...just not very tactful most of the time.
My pet peeve is definitive statements about either sex.....all women this....all men that....
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 107
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It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/22/2015 4:05:07 PM

Tired of stats, where we heard from AdventureJoe how those are derived at a lot of times....so I could care less about
them.


In honor of you dear:

http://thechiefleader.com/news/open_articles/survey-retired-cops-say-nypd-crime-stats-fudged/article_6bcbd6bc-cc58-11e1-9840-001a4bcf6878.html

Mind you most of the downgrading happens later. But it is even common at the "take a report" level. You will never hear a reliable stat because the powers that be are made or broken bsed on those numbers!
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 108
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/22/2015 4:19:22 PM

Sorry Song, but if the community voted to delete Svit's profile and it has happened on more than one occasion, then maybe he should not be so abrasive when posting.


If Y'all keep it up, then pretty soon, all You'll have, is those who are...... "Preaching to the Choir".......

After My last timeout, I stopped posting for the most part... I got tired of all the Threads being deleted by a certain Mod....
It got old, replying to a thread, & having the whole thing go POOF...... It took six months to a year for me to find out, I could only make 10 posts per day..... Now that the Mods are gone, I'm not going to fight with the Ban Gang....
 Peas_
Joined: 5/2/2015
Msg: 109
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/22/2015 4:31:34 PM
WHAT? We can only make 10 posts a day? Sheesh, I'm slacken then.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 110
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/22/2015 5:07:03 PM

WHAT? We can only make 10 posts a day? Sheesh, I'm slacken then.


That's a restriction on My account, left over, from a long gone Mod........
It doesn't bother me enough, to delete & make a new Profile.....
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 111
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/22/2015 5:32:35 PM

In honor of you dear: http://thechiefleader.com/news/open_articles/survey-retired-cops-say-nypd-crime-stats-fudged/article_6bcbd6bc-cc58-11e1-9840-001a4bcf6878.html

Mind you most of the downgrading happens later. But it is even common at the "take a report" level. You will never hear a reliable stat because the powers that be are made or broken bsed on those numbers!


It's ironic that they did a statistical analysis of those that produce that statistic to attempt to prove the stats are fudged.

The pair sent questionnaires to the roughly 4,000 people in the Police Department’s Active Retiree database—those who say they would report for duty in an emergency—who had e-mail addresses and received responses from about half of them. “A 50-percent response rate is huge,” Mr. Eterno said.

Nearly 90 percent of those who responded felt that crime did indeed decrease since 1990 but not by the 80 percent indicated by police statistics. They suggested, on average, that crime was down about 42 percent, almost identical to the nationwide drop in crime from 1990-2011.


I worked for 5 years using statistical analysis to spot problems, inconsistencies in systems, networks, quality problems, etc. I was in quality for a SP500 company, we were kind of like internal affairs, but for a telecom company. The truth tellers, seldom were managers glad to see us. It was the ultimate political department.

I did get into a serious fight with my new Sr. Manger, he wanted me to fudge some results so that everything looked smooth. I was showing some odd data, it likely wouldn't be noticed by 99% of customers.

I went ahead and reported on it, and he was furious, which was the start of a long battle. I could have handled it better, I won, but it was a close call.

It turned out Motorola did pick up on what I was seeing, they are all obsessed with being all six sigma so they are meticulous when analyzing data.
 runningout
Joined: 8/19/2008
Msg: 112
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History
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/22/2015 5:39:26 PM
It's hard enough to make five posts let alone ten posts nowadays
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 113
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/22/2015 6:20:34 PM

It appears to me that anything you might read that is contrary to an opinion espoused by NOG lacks common sense or intelligence.

It also appears that my life experiences have no validity, however those of others are golden.

Common sense, eh? You can't have it both ways. Either studies tell the "truth" or, if you don't like the truth, they are false.....


I really don't know how to say this any more clearly...ONE study does not indicate a trend. If MANY reputable, unbiased studies, reports and crime stats recorded over time suggest the same thing, then it is much more likely to be true. What part of this is giving you such difficulty?

I did not say your life experience has no validity. I said that a man walking down the street being randomly physically attacked is a very, very rare occurrence. So rare, in fact that it might even be a statistical outlier.
 Whistle_Stop
Joined: 4/9/2015
Msg: 114
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/22/2015 6:31:13 PM

In honor of you dear:
http://thechiefleader.com/news/open_articles/survey-retired-cops-say-nypd-crime-stats-fudged/article_6bcbd6bc-cc58-11e1-9840-001a4bcf6878.htm

Thanks Joe...a fellow half Russian...you remind me of my father in looks..

It's ironic that they did a statistical analysis of those that produce that statistic to attempt to prove the stats are fudged

I wonder if there was a "whistle blower" to start it off ? Rather enlightening...I think.
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 115
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/22/2015 7:35:46 PM
AdventureJoe - A definite 'thank you'.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 116
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 3:51:40 AM

It's hard enough to make five posts let alone ten posts nowadays

Another Forum I'm on, I've got 25K+ posts in the last 10+ years......
 mjinict
Joined: 8/13/2008
Msg: 117
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It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 4:12:41 AM
Most all the violent crimes I hear about are committed by the male species. Another recent local story: Man kills female roommate when she tried to evict him out of her house. She was a very popular restaurant owner/artist. Community was shocked.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 118
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 7:03:22 AM

Most all the violent crimes I hear about are committed by the male species.


It's true that outside of romantic relationships males commit a lot more violent crimes. It's also true that males are also more the target of violent crime Vs females. In other words, there is a lot more male on male violence.

Those under 25 are the most frequent targets.

The most frequent target of violent crime are young, poor black men.

About 10% of serial killers are women, but that 10% commit 17% of all serial homicides in the U.S.
 rennips1949
Joined: 3/6/2015
Msg: 119
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 7:08:59 AM

As our society has become more civilized, this has given women more ability to express their aggression.

IMO, giving anyone the ability to express aggression is not exactly "becom(ing) more civilized."

Nothing wrong with a society that permits all genders and classes to ASSERT their rights(and serve their responsibilities).
If it is necessary to assert one's rights thru a proxy(courts, media, internet, professional representation, etc), then that is certainly better than asserting ones' rights via physical force or violence.

Make no mistake, sometimes a situation arises where an individual must use physical force to deal with an attack or threat to themselves or in defense of others.
We're human, not perfect.
 rearguard*2
Joined: 2/8/2008
Msg: 120
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It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 10:32:48 AM

What part of this is giving you such difficulty?


I have no difficulty at all with your statement. What I do have difficulty with is your insistence in the first instance the female against male violence does not exist, then using the facile obfuscation technique of confusing statistics with facts. Statistics are not events, they are mathematical distillations of facts. While one study does not make a trend, its infinitely better than conclusions based on zero studies. It can be true that many studies with consistent results may indicate something about the likelihood of an incidence of a fact, however, it has been shown time and again that even where a large number of studies have demonstrated something, the impact on people's beliefs, opinions and common sense has been insignificant. The trivial example is belief in God. You can do a zillion studies that show there is no evidence for God, yet most of the planet is firmly convinced of the existence of such an entity.

There are legions of similar examples. People, in general, only espouse studies they agree with based on things like common sense, but the common sense of the masses results in things like obesity, excessive consumption of useless homoeopathic products, the widely held beliefs that women are inferior beings, and the idea that Elvis is alive and well somewhere.

Its all sloppy use of well known techniques designed to support a particular point of view. In fact, you can have no knowledge of the frequency of female on male violence, not only because it goes largely unreported by the male victims, but because in the current politically correct view of the woman as victim nobody is even interested in doing studies, or indeed looking at the results if such studies were done.

In my life, 1 instance of a few minutes is insignificant in terms of a statistic, although when it happened, it hurt, was unexpected, and was entirely inappropriate to the situation. Indeed, its a very rare event. However, the statistics presented at the beginning of this altercation clearly show that the probability of a woman being raped in her lifetime, even if we presume that 3/4 of incidence are not reported, is, in the US, a very rare event in the grand scheme of things. Women may well go through life in constant fear of attack, but, on average, it just won't happen.

Of course, the statistics could be completely wrong, but my own experience has been that of the many women I have known through life, none of them has been raped. Those are facts. Surprisingly, the pretty well correspond to the statistical evidence.

Now, perhaps your life is filled with women who have been raped, beaten, abused and generally been made victims. If so, you and they have my sympathies, and I certainly in no way condone the situation. However, it would appear, if this is a true set of facts, that your particular life is rare indeed.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 121
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 12:57:48 PM

While one study does not make a trend, its infinitely better than conclusions based on zero studies.


I disagree. In fact, ONE bad ( biased, unscientific ) study is much more harmful than no studies.


it has been shown time and again that even where a large number of studies have demonstrated something, the impact on people's beliefs, opinions and common sense has been insignificant.


And yet, after just ONE study that suggests that women are just as physically violent as men you accept that. I guess that's just what you want to believe.


In fact, you can have no knowledge of the frequency of female on male violence, not only because it goes largely unreported by the male victims, but because in the current politically correct view of the woman as victim nobody is even interested in doing studies, or indeed looking at the results if such studies were done.


There was a time when beating your wife wasn't politically incorrect, or even illegal. The expression "rule of thumb" comes from an old law that a man could beat his wife with a stick, so long the stick wasn't thicker than his thumb. Imagine, if you can, the courage and moral conviction it took for a battered woman to take a stand against her abuser before we understood that these things were wrong. If a man is battered by his spouse, he should speak up, and have her charged. Is it difficult for some people to believe that a man couldn't stop a woman from hitting him? Probably, but the burden shouldn't be on the victim to stop the attack. At least male victims of domestic abuse don't have to prove it's wrong, just that it occurred! If a man is beat up by his wife or gf he should either leave or press changes.


Women may well go through life in constant fear of attack, but, on average, it just won't happen.


I don't think rape is common, by any means, and I hope the number declines. I don't think a general fear of rape is common either. Of course there are times when a woman might find herself in the wrong place at the wrong time, or sense she is being watched or followed, but these are generally isolated times, and not something that causes women to be in a 'constant state of fear."


my own experience has been that of the many women I have known through life, none of them has been raped.


Wow. I am trying to be respectful of you and your feelings, but this statement floors me. Seriously. You know MANY women, and you KNOW for certain none of them have been raped? Why on earth would any woman other than your wife or possibly a family member share her most painful experiences with you? Or do you think you would just be able to TELL that a woman had been raped in her lifetime? Maybe they have a "look" about them?

My best friend's mother disclosed fairly recently that her first child was the result of a rape by her cousin. She told NO-ONE other than her husband for almost sixty years. Her dad didn't know, her brothers didn't know, her son didn't know...you see where I am going with this? Most rapes are not reported, most rapes don't make the papers, and most rapes are not openly discussed.


Now, perhaps your life is filled with women who have been raped, beaten, abused and generally been made victims.


I personally know three women who have been raped. I may know women who have been raped, but didn't inform me of it because it's none of my damn business. I know two women who are/were in physically abusive relationships. I don't have any idea about what goes on behind closed doors in most of my friends and acquaintances marriages behind closed doors. I think my circle of friends, family, coworkers and acquaintances are pretty typical for the most part.
 rearguard*2
Joined: 2/8/2008
Msg: 122
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It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 1:19:48 PM

And yet, after just ONE study that suggests that women are just as physically violent as men you accept that. I guess that's just what you want to believe.


Wow. Again, putting words in my mouth. I have made no comments about that study at all.

You, on the other hand, have made strong comments about that study, which, I would expect, you have never read and have no knowledge about its quality, nor have you even tried to find if there are other studies with similar results. Wake up! Its YOU that wants to believe things and you are clearly unwilling to accept any contrary opinions.

As to whether women would or would not share their experiences with me, how would you have any idea about that? For all you know I may have spent my life as a therapist of some kind hearing of the intimate details of peoples lives. You have no idea about the nature of my relationships with the women in my life.

Every time you make a comment it is based on completely unfounded assumptions about others. According to you, no woman would share her intimate experiences with me (I am a man, after all), but they hold forth to you about such things. What a load of sexist crap.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 123
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It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 1:31:40 PM

The pair sent questionnaires to the roughly 4,000 people in the Police Department’s Active Retiree database—those who say they would report for duty in an emergency—who had e-mail addresses and received responses from about half of them. “A 50-percent response rate is huge,” Mr. Eterno said.

Nearly 90 percent of those who responded felt that crime did indeed decrease since 1990 but not by the 80 percent indicated by police statistics. They suggested, on average, that crime was down about 42 percent, almost identical to the nationwide drop in crime from 1990-2011.


"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments.

Did crime go down, sure. But most of is was because of the end of crack being number 1 I think. Some say legal abortion 2 decades earlier accounted for it also.

But when YOU work for the EVIL empire you see what it is about. Politicians and upper appointed ranks careers depend on crime control. The survey was conducted with retirees, because only retirees can say the truth without getting in trouble. I wasn't even asked because I am not registered in the database, after how we were exposed during Sept 11, PURPOSELY, the last thing I would do is volunteer to be a dept guinea pig. As one of my ex partners says sarcastically..the dept/city wants us ALL dead to save money.

Truth :
1. many women don't report rape. It has always been that way.
2. if it gets reported in a large city that uses Comstat, there is a good chance that it, along with other felonies, will be downgraded. There are 3 different areas where it can get downgraded , not including the officer level. I never did that because I was happy working the bad hours( it worked with my family) and they didn't have much they could do to punish me.

But the desk officer will try to downgrade it. If he doesn't want to initiate it he will ask the duty Capt. If the Duty capt doesn't it still will most likely by downgraded by the ADA'S( they like cases they can win, and those aren't easy cases).

If you are following the news you will see crime is going though the roof in certain areas. A lot of it has to do with a hands off attitude because of protests, but a lot of it also has to do with union cops fighting the downgrading system..the evil empire, so to speak. I suspect in the next few years there is going to be a lot of this stuff coming out because in the next 5-10 years a lot of police in major cities will be hitting retirement because of the increased spending that hired them in the 90's.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 124
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 2:08:18 PM

As to whether women would or would not share their experiences with me, how would you have any idea about that? For all you know I may have spent my life as a therapist of some kind hearing of the intimate details of peoples lives. You have no idea about the nature of my relationships with the women in my life.


I don't know you , but I know LOTS of women, and I know quite a bit about rape and sexual assault. I know it's not something most women go around discussing openly with their male coworkers, uncles, or neighbours. Since you said you knew NO women who had been raped, I very much doubt you are a therapist! Are you?


According to you, no woman would share her intimate experiences with me (I am a man, after all),


I said no such thing. If you had a wife, or girlfriend I would think she would tell you. All others...maybe, maybe not.

If you mom was ever raped do you think she would tell you? It's not something I would be inclined to share with my sons, but who knows? It is a personal choice, but overall , there is much more of an inclination not to discuss, than to discuss rape, since it is such a painful event for the victim.


Every time you make a comment it is based on completely unfounded assumptions about others.


I think YOU are the one making assumptions.


but they hold forth to you about such things. What a load of sexist crap.


I never said women, in general, hold forth to me. I said I knew three women who have been raped. My best friend told me about what happened to her mom, with her mom's permission. I am close to the woman, having known her for many years. A friend of mine was raped when we were in our early twenties, and yes, she told some of us who were close to her. She sustained some fairly serious injuries, so perhaps that had something to do with why she told us. A co-worker of mine was raped about ten years ago, and many people knew about it, as she reported it, and there was a trial. Actually, there was one other woman who shared her rape story with me, but the confidence took place in a unique set of circumstances and she isn't someone who was ever in my daily life, just an old acquaintance. I am not even a therapist!

Not sure what is sexist about any of that?!
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 125
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 2:48:03 PM

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments.


Joe, so in your opinion, what are the BEST ways to support an argument? .

Because like it or not, statistics drives every aspect of our society.

From age bias, gender bias, bias in pay rates caused by age, gender or race, to inflation, setting of T-bill rates, national minimum wage. Global warming, measuring pollution, creating all sorts of laws, these all depend on accurate statistics.

I am very familiar with how statistics can be deliberately or unintentionally used to mislead people, and how people react to the pressure to make their own area of control look better than it really is. I have seen people in large corporations from the bottom to the top try and paint a better picture, it's pretty common. Never having worked in law enforcement, I can imagine it's just the same as any large corporation, everyone wants to beat their "numbers".

Here is an interesting article analyzing the drop in crime rates and the possible reasons, both pro and con. Reasons from the aging of the population, more abortions, less lead in the environment, more police, more criminals in jails, etc.

What do you think about this?

http://www.vox.com/2015/2/13/8032231/crime-drop
Show ALL Forums  > Over 45  > It looks like POF has already made some changes.