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Show ALL Forums  > Over 45  > It looks like POF has already made some changes.      Home login  
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 07songsungblue
Joined: 7/10/2015
Msg: 126
It looks like POF has already made some changes.Page 6 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
Maybe you should change your focus a bit. Instead of focusing on the three women you know that we're raped, how about focusing on the women you know that WEREN'T raped. I know two women that were raped, one by her brother and one by an uncle. This is two women too many. But, in my experience, few women are raped and in that I mean...far, far more women are not raped than are raped. And I'm sure that is the experience of most of us. So change the focus.

Someone in another thread mentioned 2/3 of college girls are raped and she got called on her made up numbers with a few reports from the internet but she, like many just want to believe what's in their little heads. And yes, some data is skewed but it's skewed BOTH ways, it's just neither side wants to believe it. Look at the post by Dragaon about female aggression in this thread, it was poo pooed. It said women have a nasty side and OMG, we can't have that. Some can't even read it and think "well, it's not what I want to believe but it's interesting and I haven't thought of it before".

So I don't feel like a victim because I'm a women, I don't view men as potential rapists or predators, I am aware of my surroundings but for the most part I live my life without worry. I live in a city of one million, I have a back alley frequented by bottle/garbage pickers, I work in the downtown core with the homeless sleeping in the back alley of our office, I pretty much go about my day without thinking "is this the day I'm attacked".

And before anyone goes friggin nuts, I am not "marginalizing" a damn thing.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 127
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 6:08:12 PM

Maybe you should change your focus a bit. Instead of focusing on the three women you know that we're raped, how about focusing on the women you know that WEREN'T raped.


LMAO. You are hilarious, song. Do we need awareness campaigns for non-victims of crime? Perhaps a charitable walk to raise funds for families who haven't lost loved ones to drunk driving? Hey, I didn't beat up my boyfriend today! Gold medal for me :)

I happen to think violence against women in our society is a very serious problem. I do volunteer work tutoring the children of women who end up in our local women's shelter. However, it is not the focus of my life. It isn't even the focus of my volunteer work. I am also involved in Wells of Hope ( clean drinking water project) and the Terry Fox foundation (cancer research). Just because I care about cancer victims, poor people in SA, and victims of domestic abuse, it doesn't mean I have a negative outlook, or that I allow these things to be the focus of my life. I couldn't even if I wanted to, since I must also work for a living, and have a social and family life of my own.


I don't view men as potential rapists or predators...I pretty much go about my day without thinking "is this the day I'm attacked".


I agree. I don't think about worry about it either.
 07songsungblue
Joined: 7/10/2015
Msg: 128
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 7:01:10 PM
We ALL happen to think violence against women is a serious problem. ALL of us, both genders. We've seen it, heard about it, lived it, read about it and we don't live in a vacuum. And you don't have the market cornered on volunteer work and charity work, been doing it for years and years. I see the nasty stuff people do to each other daily at work. The point I'm trying to make is why turn every second thread into a "ya, well women get abused yanno". I said in another thread that the discussion could be apple sauce recipes and it would turn into an us vs them and "ya, well women get abused yanno".

And give a few of the men posting here credit for "getting it", they do, IMO they all get it. Like I've said before, they all have women they love in their lives.
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 129
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 7:02:19 PM

But, in my experience, few women are raped and in that I mean...far, far more women are not raped than are raped. And I'm sure that is the experience of most of us. So change the focus.

Your mileage obviously varies from mine... no matter how sure you are that your experience is universal.


Someone in another thread mentioned 2/3 of college girls are raped and she got called on her made up numbers with a few reports from the internet but she, like many just want to believe what's in their little heads.

That was me. I was recounting my memory of the number of sexual assaults and rapes in my college dorm (which I later counted out to closer to 50%). I was the one who provided the most accurate numbers from the FBI crime statistics, recounted that the FBI had changed it's criteria for rape in 2013 and that rape could be under-reported by up to 75%. I pointed out the Canadian government phone survey where the numbers were close to 2 of 3 women assaulted or raped during her life. I also pointed out that my dorm was a small, closed system and not appropriate for statistically analysis. I was lambasted, told that I was a liar and had a victim mentality, saw that many people confused sexual assault with rape, told it was only a miniscule number and didn't really matter because men went to war and women didn't. Now, I find you misremembering and misquoting me as saying 2/3 of college girls are raped (No, that was my college dorm, 30 years ago.) But, of course, you'll believe what's in your little head which is that 'few women are raped'. In actuality, you can only say that you were not raped.


So I don't feel like a victim because I'm a women, I don't view men as potential rapists or predators, I am aware of my surroundings but for the most part I live my life without worry.

Congratulations.
I don't view the men I meet as potential rapists or predators either. But I do view quite a few of them as being unaware of quite a few facts of womanhood. (The same that I am unaware of some facts of manhood). Some guys 'get it', some guys try to understand and the others... are part of the problem.


And before anyone goes friggin nuts, I am not "marginalizing" a damn thing.

Really? Are you sure?
Not that I'm going nuts, simply defending myself, my opinions, and the factual information I brought to the discussion.
 IL_Capitano
Joined: 11/23/2012
Msg: 130
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History
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 7:07:48 PM

The expression "rule of thumb" comes from an old law that a man could beat his wife with a stick, so long the stick wasn't thicker than his thumb.


Ummmm... this is one of those things that is taught in Gender/Women's Studies that has no basis in fact. Apparently, it's is still used in Gender/Women's Studies textbooks at universities despite having been debunked for a very long time. It's a feminist myth, though I'm sure I'll be lambasted by a large number of women who still want to believe what their profs told them.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/rule-of-thumb.html

http://dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/e27.html

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rule+of+thumb

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rule+of+thumb

Cheers.

 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 131
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 7:24:54 PM
Rule of thumb -- none of my professors ever told me that... I thought it had to do with carpentry. Sorry to disappoint you Il Capitano, but no lambasting from me.

Mjinict - the male is not a species of his own (species - a group of interbreeding organisms).

I don't necessarily think that men are more aggressive than women; I do think they are capable of doing far more damage in aggressive anger. Kind of like I believe that more people are bitten by nasty-tempered Chihuahuas than larger dog breeds -- it's just that the damage is greater when the larger dog bites.
 07songsungblue
Joined: 7/10/2015
Msg: 132
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 7:26:43 PM
2ufo. First off, I didn't quote you. Believe whatever the hell you want. Haul out whatever stats you want. The thing is, you only want to believe what information you found to back up your thinking and you disbelieved any information anyone else brought up. You just wanted someone to say "you're right". Well, it didn't work that way, others had differing opinions.

I'm not going nuts either, simply defending my opinions and the opinions and factual information of others, some who have been removed for having differing opinions.

Men get it. They just may not yammer on about it like you think they should. The only ones that are part of the problem are the rapists.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 133
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 7:43:55 PM
newoldgirl,
There was a time when beating your wife wasn't politically incorrect, or even illegal. The expression "rule of thumb" comes from an old law that a man could beat his wife with a stick, so long the stick wasn't thicker than his thumb.


Just another urban myth propagated by the Internet. Someone told me, don't believe everything you read.

But it is related to my point, violence against men by women is trivialized today, just as the law you are talking about that was in 1630, over 385 years ago and in England, allowed a man to give his wife moderate correction, specifically EXCLUDING beating.

A different county and over 385 years ago, and it never had anything to do with rule of thumb!


Origin of the phrase[edit]

The exact origin of the phrase is uncertain. The earliest known citation comes from J. Durham’s Heaven upon Earth, 1685, ii. 217: "Many profest Christians are like to foolish builders, who build by guess, and by rule of thumb.

Thumb used for abuse[edit]

Caricature condemning Buller: Judge Thumb - Patent Sticks for Family Correction - Warranted Lawful!

It is often claimed that the term's etymological origin lies in a law that limited the maximum thickness of a stick with which it was permissible for a man to beat his wife.[5][6][2] English common law before the reign of Charles II permitted a man to give his wife "moderate correction", but no "rule of thumb" (whether called by this name or not) has ever been the law in England.[7][8] Such "moderate correction" specifically excluded beatings, allowing the husband only to confine a wife to the household.[9]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thumb
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 134
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 8:05:59 PM
07songsungblue
No, you didn't quote me (which I would have had no problem if quoted correctly and in context)... you simply alluded to 'someone and her made up' figures. I have no problems with anyone having different opinions or bringing in conflicting information, however (as I recall), the person removed contributed no information and only kept pointing out that the FBI numbers were only a minuscule number and he didn't know anyone who had been raped so it wasn't a problem and I was obviously a stupid feminist with an agenda and besides men died in wars and that made everything equal. If you go back and re-read the entire thread, you will see that oldman/freethinker or whatever alias he was using at the time only brings up one statistic on men vs. women who died in battle. I doubt he was removed for having different opinions. He seemed to have very few opinions about the issue and more opinions about my mentality.

It is obviously your opinion that rape is a non-issue. Ok. I hope you have the good fortune to maintain that opinion.

Many people who blame the victim, who say that it's what a woman wears which provokes sexual assault or rape, people who don't want to hear that there are men out there who are sexual predators -- these people are all part of the problem.
Many men get it. Many men do not. And, as you have just proved - some women don't get it either.
 07songsungblue
Joined: 7/10/2015
Msg: 135
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 8:21:40 PM
Oh FFS, how old are you? Is reading comprehension an issue? Do you twist everything? Please, tell me where I said rape is a non- issue. WTF, is it because I didn't pat you on the friggin head like a child and say "you're right".

I have never, ever, friggin ever said rape is a non- issue. What I said was quit turning every thread into a He vs. She and turn every topic into a rape/abuse topic. I also said that instead of focusing on the ones that were raped, focus on the ones who haven't been.

Did you read the post that Dragon posted on the prior page about women and aggression? I found it interesting. I also found it interesting that it was marginalized as to "going against the grain".

I'm not even going to comment on the last line of your post as you've proved you're too dense to comprehend a response without twisting into whatever pleases your simple little brain.
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 136
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 9:22:15 PM

Apparently, it's is still used in Gender/Women's Studies textbooks at universities despite having been debunked for a very long time. It's a feminist myth, though I'm sure I'll be lambasted by a large number of women who still want to believe what their profs told them.


No lambasting from me. I have read various conflicting reports in which writers have attempted to debunk the origin of this phrase. I have read several reports that support the history of the usage in common law.


We ALL happen to think violence against women is a serious problem. ALL of us, both genders.


Song, all due respect, but you simply cannot speak for ALL people.


The point I'm trying to make is why turn every second thread into a "ya, well women get abused yanno". I said in another thread that the discussion could be apple sauce recipes and it would turn into an us vs them and "ya, well women get abused yanno".


I don't know why it keeps getting brought up. I have definitely brought it up once in another thread where it was suggested that men are natural protectors. This is no more true than saying that all women are natural nurturers. Apart from that time, I have not brought it up, and I left that thread because the conversation was nasty.

But if it DOES get mentioned by a man whose ONLY knee-jerk response to male on female violence is to say "women do it toooooo." then I am most likely going to respond to that. I'm sorry if it bothers you to read about it in thread, but I think it's too important to ignore. By all means, skip my posts. I like reading yours, though. You have passion :) And we can disagree without name calling...at least so far! LOL


And give a few of the men posting here credit for "getting it", they do, IMO they all get it. Like I've said before, they all have women they love in their lives.


When you say "get it" what do you mean? Obviously they get that rape is wrong. Nobody gets brownie points for that! So, what is it that they "get" exactly?
 07songsungblue
Joined: 7/10/2015
Msg: 137
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 9:40:25 PM
Sorry, my mistake, I should not have said "ALL". I should have said the majority happen to think violence against women is a serious problem. Both genders...the majority.

"So what is it that they "get" exactly." I doesn't matter, they would be told they were wrong anyway, IMO.

Another take on this is that while men are aware of it, they have no need nor desire to discuss it endlessly. Just like they know about menopause but they don't want to talk about it for hours. The the same applies to discussions on PMS, periods, sore nipples while nursing, yeast infections and why you can't sort out your own problems with a coworker. I can yap about all of this with my gal pals (girl friends...see I listen) and I've discussed it briefly with men I love and even briefer with my male friends. They would much rather discuss a root canal. But as I said, they are aware of rape/abuse as they all have women in their lives that they love and the manynwouldmstep in to protect a stranger. That's why I like men, no bullshit.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 138
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 9:54:07 PM

And yet, after just ONE study that suggests that women are just as physically violent as men you accept that. I guess that's just what you want to believe.


In domestic disputes, it's actually 200 studies have all shown the same thing. Women are just as prone to resort to physical violence as are men. It's at least equal, though some studies indicate women are more likely to resort to physical violence in a relationship.

The Surprising Truth About Women and Violence
Cathy Young @CathyYoung63
June 25, 2014

Goalkeeper Hope Solo takes her position in goal during the second half of a women's friendly soccer match against France on June 14, 2014 at Raymond James Stadium in Tampa, Florida.

Traditional stereotypes have led to double standards that often cause women’s violence—especially against men—to be trivialized.

The arrest of an Olympic gold medalist on charges of domestic violence would normally be an occasion for a soul-searching conversation about machismo in sports, toxic masculinity and violence against women. But not when the alleged offender is a woman: 32-year-old Hope Solo, goalkeeper of the U.S. women’s soccer team, who is facing charges of assaulting her sister and 17-year-old nephew in a drunken, violent outburst. While the outcome of the case is far from clear, this is an occasion for conversation about a rarely acknowledged fact: family violence is not necessarily a gender issue, and women—like singer Beyoncé Knowles’ sister Solange, who attacked her brother-in-law, the rapper Jay Z, in a notorious recent incident caught on video—are not always its innocent victims.

Male violence against women and girls has been the focus of heightened attention since Eliot Rodger’s horrific rampage in California last month, driven at least partly by his rage at women. Many people argue that even far less extreme forms of gender-related violence are both a product and a weapon of deeply ingrained cultural misogyny. Meanwhile, the men’s rights activists also brought into the spotlight by Rodger’s killing spree defend another perspective—one that, in this case, is backed by a surprising amount of evidence from both research and current events: that violence is best understood as a human problem whose gender dynamics are much more complex than commonly understood.

There is little dispute that men commit far more violent acts than women. According to FBI data on crime in the U.S., they account for some 90% of known murderers. And a study published in American Society of Criminology finds that men account for nearly 80% of all violent offenders reported in crime surveys, despite a substantial narrowing of the gap since the 1970s. But, whatever explains the higher levels of male violence—biology, culture or both—the indisputable fact is that it’s directed primarily at other males: in 2010, men were the victims in almost four out of five homicides and almost two-thirds of robberies and non-domestic aggravated assaults. Family and intimate relationships—the one area feminists often identify as a key battleground in the war on women—are also an area in which women are most likely to be violent, and not just in response to male aggression but toward children, elders, female relatives or partners, and non-violent men, according to a study published in the Journal of Family Violence.

Last April, when Connecticut high school student Maren Sanchez was stabbed to death by her a classmate allegedly because she refused to go to the prom with him, feminist writer Soraya Chemaly asserted that such tragedies were the result of “pervasive, violently maintained, gender hierarchy,” male entitlement, and societal “contempt for the lives of girls and women.” But what, then, explains another stabbing death in Connecticut two months earlier—that of 25-year-old David Vazquez, whose girlfriend reportedly shouted, “If I can’t have you, no one can!” before plunging a knife into his chest shortly after Vazquez said he was leaving her for a former girlfriend? Or the actions of a 22-year-old former student at New York’s Hofstra University who pleaded guilty last November to killing her boyfriend by deliberately hitting him with her car due to a dispute about another woman? Or the actions of the Florida woman who killed her ex-partner’s 2-year-old daughter and tried to kill the woman’s 10-year-old son last month shortly after their breakup?

Research showing that women are often aggressors in domestic violence has been causing controversy for almost 40 years, ever since the 1975 National Family Violence Survey by sociologists Murray Straus and Richard Gelles of the Family Research Laboratory at the University of New Hampshire found that women were just as likely as men to report hitting a spouse and men were just as likely as women to report getting hit. The researchers initially assumed that, at least in cases of mutual violence, the women were defending themselves or retaliating. But when subsequent surveys asked who struck first, it turned out that women were as likely as men to initiate violence—a finding confirmed by more than 200 studies of intimate violence. In a 2010 review essay in the journal Partner Abuse, Straus concludes that women’s motives for domestic violence are often similar to men’s, ranging from anger to coercive control.

Critics have argued that the survey format used in most family violence studies, the Conflict Tactics Scale, is flawed and likely to miss some of the worst assaults on women—especially post-separation attacks. Yet two major studies using a different methodology—the 2000 National Violence Against Women Survey by the National Institute of Justice and the Centers for Disease Control National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey published last February—have also found that some 40% of those reporting serious partner violence in the past year are men. (Both studies show a much larger gender gap in lifetime reports of partner violence; one possible explanation for this discrepancy is that men may be more likely to let such experiences fade from memory over time since they have less cultural support for seeing themselves as victims, particularly of female violence.)

Violence by women causes less harm due to obvious differences in size and strength, but it is by no means harmless. Women may use weapons, from knives to household objects—including highly dangerous ones such as boiling water—to neutralize their disadvantage, and men may be held back by cultural prohibitions on using force toward a woman even in self-defense. In his 2010 review, Straus concludes that in various studies, men account for 12% to 40% of those injured in heterosexual couple violence. Men also make up about 30% of intimate homicide victims—not counting cases in which women kill in self-defense. And women are at least as likely as men to kill their children—more so if one counts killings of newborns—and account for more than half of child maltreatment perpetrators.

What about same-sex violence? The February CDC study found that, over their lifetime, 44% of lesbians had been physically assaulted by a partner (more than two-thirds of them only by women), compared to 35% of straight women, 26% of gay men, and 29% of straight men. While these figures suggest that women are somewhat less likely than men to commit partner violence, they also show a fairly small gap. The findings are consistent with other evidence that same-sex relationships are no less violent than heterosexual ones.

For the most part, feminists’ reactions to reports of female violence toward men have ranged from dismissal to outright hostility. Straus chronicles a troubling history of attempts to suppress research on the subject, including intimidation of heretical scholars of both sexes and tendentious interpretation of the data to portray women’s violence as defensive. In the early 1990s, when laws mandating arrest in domestic violence resulted in a spike of dual arrests and arrests of women, battered women’s advocates complained that the laws were “backfiring on victims,” claiming that women were being punished for lashing back at their abusers. Several years ago in Maryland, the director and several staffers of a local domestic violence crisis center walked out of a meeting in protest of the showing of a news segment about male victims of family violence. Women who have written about female violence, such as Patricia Pearson, author of the 1997 book When She Was Bad: Violent Women and the Myth of Innocence, have often been accused of colluding with an anti-female backlash.

But this woman-as-victim bias is at odds with the feminist emphasis on equality of the sexes. If we want our culture to recognize women’s capacity for leadership and competition, it is hypocritical to deny or downplay women’s capacity for aggression and even evil. We cannot argue that biology should not keep women from being soldiers while treating women as fragile and harmless in domestic battles. Traditional stereotypes both of female weakness and female innocence have led to double standards that often cause women’s violence—especially against men—to be trivialized, excused, or even (like Solange’s assault on Jay Z) treated as humorous. Today, simplistic feminist assumptions about male power and female oppression effectively perpetuate those stereotypes. It is time to see women as fully human—which includes the dark side of humanity.

Cathy Young is a contributing editor at Reason magazine.

http://time.com/2921491/hope-solo-women-violence/
=========================================
My only point is that men who endure abuse from women have no advocates in society, few places to turn to. There are no marches, no advocacy groups. And while males commit most of the violent crimes outside of domestic situations, their target is most often other men, not women. Men are murdered at a rate 3 times that of women.

As far as women using violence against men, the media is complicit in minimizing this. Indeed, often women slapping men are still used for humor and entertainment.

I think this is changing, but it happens slowly.
 somekinda_wonderful
Joined: 4/21/2012
Msg: 139
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Posted: 7/23/2015 10:48:41 PM
"Rule of Thumb" ~ Learn something new every day. In the late 80's worked in a women's shelter and I had this canned speech about abuse, ... it started with the rule of thumb example in Anglo-Saxon times. The other example I used was how the penalty for killing your horse was greater then killing your wife, should probley look that one up too. Thanks for the info :)
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 140
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/23/2015 11:16:43 PM
There's a lot of misinformation out there about a lot of stuff that just isn't challenged.

I heard a radio ad about how 5 people a day are killed by drunk drivers in Canada. That seemed high to me so I checked online. I found that figure quoted in newspapers and magazines in the first results. Had to go to the second page before I found Stats Canada. Turns out that fewer than one person is killed in a motor vehicle accident of any kind every two days.

The biggest shopping day of the year isn't Black Friday in the US, but is always the last Saturday before Christmas. The second biggest shopping day is always the next to last Saturday.
 rearguard*2
Joined: 2/8/2008
Msg: 141
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Posted: 7/24/2015 6:41:39 AM
My own opinion on violent tendencies between the sexes is based on the fact that the male and female body are, aside from the sexual aspects, essentially identical biological machines. The large body of medical diagnostic procedures does not distinguish between the sexes except in the obvious cases related to the sexual apparatus. For this reason, I find that any large departures in behaviour patterns promoted for political reasons (women are victims, for instance) are suspect.

Indeed, in the average case, women are statistically smaller and physically weaker than men, however, the gap in physical prowess is not sufficient to preclude physical violence by either one of the sexes against the other. Even within the male sex, physical size is not a particularly good predictor of the outcome of a physical altercation. As the old joke goes, "Its not the size of the weapon that is important, its the fury of the attack!"

Having been involved with a large number of both male and female people in various sporting activities, the only aspect of physicality that I noticed with any consistency that differed between the sexes was that because of smaller body size, women tended to lack the same endurance as men, although I am completely aware that there are females that can easily outperform men in many types of situations requiring physical prowess.

The issue with newoldgirl is not that she is stupid, it is that she is fairly intelligent and reasonably educated to the extent that she can deploy an array of facile techniques to attack the positions of those who don't share her views. These include questioning the facts by posing generic questions without support of other facts, imputing conclusions to others for which there is no basis in their statements nor knowledge of their actual ideas, employing politically and socially loaded adjectives and adverbs to any neutral information presented to cast such information in a negative, naive or absurd light, and conveniently omitting to address points made for which she has no reasonable way of denying their truth. You see this all the time on the media every time a politician, bureaucrat or religious enthusiast appears to defend some absurd position.

To me, the concept of equality of the sexes is deprecated, eroded and discredited by social and political fads that strive to emphasize sex based differences. If women are victims, and men are not, then obviously we need to arrange for the defense of women with all kinds of tailored politics and social norms. If people are victims, then we need to arrange for the defense of people, regardless of sex, through different politics and social norms. My own preference is for the latter. Its the only strategy that saves everyone and avoids the types of mess that the history of divisive politics has produced.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 142
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/24/2015 6:50:16 AM
I am impressed rearguard, I never knew you were articulate.
 07songsungblue
Joined: 7/10/2015
Msg: 143
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/24/2015 6:56:53 AM
Very well put Rearguard. As I stated earlier, we have and had some very intelligent men posting on here yet their thoughts have been poo poo'd. Sad. We are all in this together, and yes, that's ALL?
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 144
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/24/2015 7:03:51 AM

The large body of medical diagnostic procedures does not distinguish between the sexes except in the obvious cases related to the sexual apparatus. For this reason, I find that any large departures in behaviour patterns promoted for political reasons (women are victims, for instance) are suspect.


I agree with your post, but I think you are overstepping the idea that large departures in behavior is solely created by the political process.

Hormones play a huge role in influencing our thinking, so the sexual aspect isn't just confined to sex.

There is no doubt in my mind that men commit the majority of violent crime, though they focus their crimes on other men. Men also in general take on more risk.

So I would take a stance that is more middle the road between your views and newoldgirl.

I would say both men and women can be equally violent and equally nurturing, but are driven by different circumstances and have different average responses to the same stimulus.
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 145
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/24/2015 7:57:40 AM

As the old joke goes, "Its not the size of the weapon that is important, its the fury of the attack!"


I can say from first hand experience that much is true.

Without a doubt the vast majority of violent cases were male on male, some male on female. Those cases where it was female on male were consistently more violent (not saying all were, but my personal and professional view tended to substantiate this). I can only speculate the reason for that would be the physical need to negate any type of physical retaliation by the male. I've got pictures of men with steak knives stuck in their eye up to the hilt, knives in necks, chests laid open to the bone from a straight razor and a lot of gunshot wounds. Perhaps the smaller physical size deems the use of a weapon the only viable option to survive. I have had very few just straight out physical fights where the female pummeled the male senseless, the few I did, after seeing the female I would probably avoid fighting her if I could myself. :/
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 146
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It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/24/2015 11:29:44 AM

ithout a doubt the vast majority of violent cases were male on male, some male on female. Those cases where it was female on male were consistently more violent (not saying all were, but my personal and professional view tended to substantiate this). I can only speculate the reason for that would be the physical need to negate any type of physical retaliation by the male. I've got pictures of men with steak knives stuck in their eye up to the hilt, knives in necks, chests laid open to the bone from a straight razor and a lot of gunshot wounds. Perhaps the smaller physical size deems the use of a weapon the only viable option to survive. I have had very few just straight out physical fights where the female pummeled the male senseless, the few I did, after seeing the female I would probably avoid fighting her if I could myself. :/


True, true-- in a domestic dispute jobs I found it more important to keep eyes on the lady. And GOD forbid you are cuffing her man, and she doesn't want that!

You know who is worst? She-males lol
 newoldgirl
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 147
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/24/2015 6:18:04 PM

The large body of medical diagnostic procedures does not distinguish between the sexes except in the obvious cases related to the sexual apparatus.


Rearguard, I think you are overgeneralizing.

Even male and female brains have proven differences in their structure and chemistry. There are also some diseases (not sex related) that occur in different proportions between the sexes. Lupus is more common in women , appendicitis is more common in men, for example. Way more male children have autism than female children. Why? I don't think they know. There is even a lot of recent medical literature around the ways that heart attack signs and symptoms can be very different in men and women.

I am not surprised to hear CC and Joe say that the female attacks on males often involve weapons, since a smaller, weaker woman might seek to level the field. I am also not surprised to hear that female attacks male partners can be quite vicious. Anyone can be violent.

I wonder about the motivation in SOME of those attacks, though. Sure, some women be nasty, violent ****es, I am sure. However, sometimes over the top violence can occur in isolation. What I mean is a person who is not by nature a violent person can snap, if she or he has been bullied and abused over time. I am sure we have all heard of battered spouses who finally lose it and kill their abuser. Perhaps that might account for at least a portion of the evil women who stabbed their partners in the neck.

As far as my defending my opinion and POV, I don't do anything that most other posters also do, although I do try to avoid personal attacks and name calling. As far as not responding to the studies that suggest women are as violent as men, I DID respond. My belief is that there is not enough information and I also question the validity of the studies. That IS my response, like it or not.


Another take on this is that while men are aware of it, they have no need nor desire to discuss it endlessly. Just like they know about menopause but they don't want to talk about it for hours.


Nobody is forcing them to post in this thread or any other.


That's why I like men, no bullshit.


All men? LOL

Generally, I don't find men more (or less) likable than women. Some are wonderful human beings, and some are complete arseholes.
 IL_Capitano
Joined: 11/23/2012
Msg: 148
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It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/24/2015 6:22:57 PM

No lambasting from me. I have read various conflicting reports in which writers have attempted to debunk the origin of this phrase. I have read several reports that support the history of the usage in common law.


Hmmm... so, what would be an acceptable source for you?

I appreciate that you are a feminist and the sort of feminist who doesn't buy into the fascist end of the spectrum, but sometimes I really wonder how it is possible to present a POV that differs from the feminist narrative of how the world works that could possibly be understood and acknowledged by feminists.

I like women. Women seem to like me, judging by how few times I've been slugged in the side of the head in the past 30 years....

.... but, jeepers, there is always this entrenched societal belief that whatever is presented as pro-female is good and true, and whatever is pro-male is inherently flawed and false.

I feel for my sons and all the sons out there who are coming into their own in North America. I really do.

 Whistle_Stop
Joined: 4/9/2015
Msg: 149
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/24/2015 7:12:52 PM

Those cases where it was female on male were consistently more violent (not saying all were, but my personal and professional view tended to substantiate this). I can only speculate the reason for that would be the physical need to negate any type of physical retaliation by the male.

I can totally believe that and for the same reason you stated....makes sense.

I feel for my sons and all the sons out there who are coming into their own in North America. I really do.

Why...I wonder?
I have 2 son-in-laws and 3 grandsons....all seem to be just fine in life.
I think....It's the baby boomers that are finding the transition of roles between men and women difficult.
And I don't want to hear or see any stats.....it's my opinion.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 150
It looks like POF has already made some changes.
Posted: 7/24/2015 7:41:18 PM

As far as not responding to the studies that suggest women are as violent as men, I DID respond. My belief is that there is not enough information and I also question the validity of the studies. That IS my response, like it or not.


IOW, You have Your fingers in Your Ears & are saying, "I'm not listening"....... You've made up Your mind & nothing will change it......

In that other thread, when the Canadian DV study was brought up by many, I posted a link to a Paper about why the Study was Flawed..... If the search feature worked like most good forums, then I'd look for my post & link to it..... The funky software here, it ain't worth the effort....
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