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Show ALL Forums  > Dating Experiences  > the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherer      Home login  
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 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 64
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the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannahPage 4 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

sealady111
p.s. I remember at a beach party we both attended. I was enjoying myself and asked him if I could sleep with him in his van. Asked in public and everyone knew.

He was not keen.. so I laughed and joked that he hoped he would get a better offer.

I decided to not drink any more alchohol and dance off what I had already consumed and drove home.

Just before I left he said I could sleep in his van.
Obviously he did not get that better offer. Lol

SeaLady, I would most strongly urge you to not ever do that again. I have had that happen a number of times during my long life, and I always hate it. The bad part here is “asked in public and everyone knew it”. In private, absolutely fine, I enjoy a woman coming on to me. Very flattering, very ego boasting.

But not in public, where I have to accept her advances publicly or reject her publicly. Very bad juju. Please don’t do that.

I will proposition any attractive woman, given the chance. “Want to come up and see my etchings?” But not in public, not in front of her or my friends.
 geekgrrrl
Joined: 1/28/2009
Msg: 65
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the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/23/2015 10:50:25 PM
ohenryx said:

SeaLady, I would most strongly urge you to not ever do that again. I have had that happen a number of times during my long life, and I always hate it. The bad part here is “asked in public and everyone knew it”. In private, absolutely fine, I enjoy a woman coming on to me. Very flattering, very ego boasting.

But not in public, where I have to accept her advances publicly or reject her publicly. Very bad juju. Please don’t do that.

I will proposition any attractive woman, given the chance. “Want to come up and see my etchings?” But not in public, not in front of her or my friends.


Why should sealady111 change anything about herself based on your past experience?
 sealady111
Joined: 5/31/2015
Msg: 66
the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/24/2015 12:05:37 AM
Henry..... you have it all wrong.

I was seeking a place to sleep and asked if I could sleep with him in his van.

SLEEP!!!

My exact words were "Can I crash in your van?" But I am not sure if crash has the same meaning there.

I WAS NOT asking him for sex.
I WAS asking him the same way I would ask a female friend.

No sexuality involved at all. No propositioning. No etching

We are FRIENDS!!!!!!!

Male / Female friends. Buddies.

NO SEX NOR ROMANCE from either side.

It IS possible for men and women to be friends.


_________________________________________________

To confuse you further he is a nudist and we have both sailed and swum and been together in the altogether.

NO SEX.

We are friends.
 LetitiaLeGrande
Joined: 3/22/2015
Msg: 67
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the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/24/2015 12:38:14 AM
Like a lot of other conditions something goes awry in the womb. Homosexual men get one shot of male hormone when they really need two, to be heterosexual, according to some research. There is a theory also that they had so many past lives as females that they over identify with their mothers and other women in the environment. I don't know if that is true. I think there is varying degrees and then there is bi-sexuality. I do feel they are born and not created by circumstance as some would suggest or that they have a choice.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 68
the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/24/2015 5:51:52 AM
Why should sealady111 change anything about herself based on your past experience?
-----------------
If she doesn't mind being discourteous, she should ignore ohenry. On the other hand, common sense and countless books say that putting people in awkward situations and not giving them an out is not only bad manners, but a good way to not get the answer you were hoping to get.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 69
the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/24/2015 7:05:46 AM

NO SEX NOR ROMANCE from either side.

It IS possible for men and women to be friends.


Yet he rejected you. Why do you think? Because deep inside he wanted to have sex, but he also knew that since you were friends you would not. And while booze may cut his inhibition, it would not cut yours. So he felt awkward. So I can understand that Ohenry said.

Also if both of you had seen each other naked before, I don't know even more reason to abstain. (And I say this not implying that he may not found you attractive, but rather more reason that he wanted to ravage you.)
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 70
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the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/24/2015 7:57:17 AM

sealady111
Henry..... you have it all wrong.

I was seeking a place to sleep and asked if I could sleep with him in his van.

SLEEP!!!

My exact words were "Can I crash in your van?" But I am not sure if crash has the same meaning there.

I WAS NOT asking him for sex.
I WAS asking him the same way I would ask a female friend.

Sealady, I apologize for the misunderstanding. But going back to your original posting, you said:


He was not keen.. so I laughed and joked that he hoped he would get a better offer.


When I first read those words, I took “better offer” to mean sex with a more attractive woman than you, when what you meant by “better offer” was “sleeping AND sex”
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 71
the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/24/2015 8:04:01 AM

First, the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah. Millennials haven't really invented new ways to hook up.


Personally, I agree. Some have tried to re-invent tthe wheel, but (IMO) a man is a man & a woman is a woman & certain things are just biologically programmed into us, regardless of current sociological "trends"!



Perhaps, but what people find attractive changes over time and is different for different countries.

For instance, portly men and chubby women used to be the ideal early in the 20th century in the USA.

What I think it is, people are attracted to signs of health and higher social status, but those signs change with time.

Another change is the desire to have children. In every developed country in the world the birth rate is dropping. IMO because it's expensive and not a financial positive to have children in a developed country.
 geekgrrrl
Joined: 1/28/2009
Msg: 72
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the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/24/2015 3:24:06 PM
InnerGorilla said:

Yet he rejected you. Why do you think? Because deep inside he wanted to have sex, but he also knew that since you were friends you would not. And while booze may cut his inhibition, it would not cut yours. So he felt awkward. So I can understand that Ohenry said.


I think you are misreading or reading more into what sealady111 said, she said he was holding out for a better offer but given they are friends he didn't mean from her. Would have been a bit uncomfortable had he scored only to have a friend taking up his prime real estate. lol
 sealady111
Joined: 5/31/2015
Msg: 73
the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/24/2015 4:35:19 PM
Quite right geekgrrl.......
He was keeping his 'real estate' vacant in case he got lucky.
I regularly call this man a 'tart' as he is a 'loose man' and brags about his freedom and availability of available women.
Interestingly, neither me, nor any of our mutual sailing buddies have ever met ANY of these women.
At one stage he bragged that he had 5 women after him.
We asked him to bring them around so we could help him make his decision.
No women have EVER been sighted.
He has no intention of loosing his bachelor status and says 'I am what I am' with a cheeky grin and usually with both sets of cheeks visible.


Thank you Henry. Apology accepted.
An excellent example of what is written and intended vs what is read and understood.
The perils of the written word.
Especially with different mindset and colloquialisms.

A question for you Henry. In a different thread you stated that MeetUps have many more women than men.
Why? Why do you think this is the case?


I think that NOW is the best time for women and possibly the worst time for men.
Very, very different from hunter - gatherers.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 74
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the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/24/2015 4:51:39 PM
A looooooooooot of people are saying a loooooooooooot of things about genetics inheritance and evolution, which are wrong in the extreme.

Primarily, because so many people fall into the common error in thinking that there is INTENT behind evolution. That when things do change, it is because the change can be shown to be beneficial to the organism. That all evolution makes us better.

People aren't just buying into THOSE abject falsehoods. Some attach moral conclusions to DNA related concerns, often attributing effects to what are more probably causes.

They do the same thing in spades, when they start talking about cultural or social evolution. This can get really bad, when someone who observes an entirely artificial change having been made to a society, and then looks at the result of the artificial manipulation, and declares that a natural reaction to the manipulation proves that the manipulation was a good idea (?).

It's all more complicated than that. Even basic changes in DNA, aren't "designed" in any way at all. Creatures don't change their genetics (yet) in order to deal with changes in the environment. Changes in genetics just happen all the time, and occasionally, one of the changes chances to be "just what the doctor ordered." Other times they actually get in the way, or simply clutter the being with meaningless stuff.

Humans are NOT elegantly designed works of DNA precision. We are kluged together chunks of this and that, and we lurch across the planet as best we can, doing what we can with what happens to be in front of us.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 75
the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/24/2015 5:07:03 PM
I know this is your field of expertise, and I've tried not to go beyond what I've read written by others who are also experts in this field.

But any dating thread is bound to veer off into tangential areas. I find evolutionary psychology fascinating and in broad terms makes a lot of sense in explaining human behaviour. Not every act by any individual, but in things like mating I think we're driven by primal urges that don't change with fashion. When I was young men were told to behave like Alan Alda. Turns out Steve McQueen was a better model for getting the babes.
 purplerider1200
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 76
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the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/24/2015 8:08:26 PM

Maybe she'll just ask a question, tilt her face sideways but slightly toward you, smile and slowly blink once. Her lips might part slightly and her eyes widen as she expresses her admiration of you. The best way to make people remember you is to make them feel special.

2ufo
All of what you just pointed out to me, goes right over my head. I have no clue as to why women do that. Or if they did do that in my direction. When I say, "no games, please." means I want none. Subtle cues mean nothing to me, because I can't read them.
 ClooneysMentor
Joined: 8/2/2015
Msg: 77
the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/24/2015 8:13:30 PM
Gotta love McQueen and Alda.

Short versus the Long Term?

If you're just out to get it, McQueen wins.
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 78
the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/25/2015 9:58:13 AM
Hi Purplerider,



Maybe she'll just ask a question, tilt her face sideways but slightly toward you, smile and slowly blink once. Her lips might part slightly and her eyes widen as she expresses her admiration of you. The best way to make people remember you is to make them feel special.


2ufo
All of what you just pointed out to me, goes right over my head. I have no clue as to why women do that. Or if they did do that in my direction. When I say, "no games, please." means I want none. Subtle cues mean nothing to me, because I can't read them.


Maybe that is why you like the push-up bra and the high heels - they provide a very clear signal that the woman wearing them is looking for a man.

You aren't supposed to really consciously notice subtle clues like this. Most people are totally unaware of everything they are doing or what it means though women are usually more aware of body language than men. You don't need to understand the body language, merely respond to it appropriately. It's usually all very natural.

Your reaction might be to straighten and pull your shoulders kind of back and down (subconsciously impressing her that you can be strong and prepared to fight off the wicked saber-tooth tiger for her). You might tilt your own head (but less than her) to look her in the eyes - indicating agreement and like. You might smile (you should smile) slightly as you answer her question with masculine brilliance. Hand gestures are usually palm up, as if offering. This is a subconscious 'first step' in meeting and assessing mutual attraction. Think about meeting some woman that you like (not necessarily sexually) and how you would act if she saw you in the store after not seeing each other for a while. You would smile, look into her eyes (although probably not with the side head tilt) and turn toward her welcoming her then give her your attention as you caught up with events in each other's lives.

Subtle cues like this aren't 'game-playing', merely the action and reaction of million of years of evolution. There are very few societies where these cues don't apply. For instance, in Japan and many Hispanic cultures, it is rude and far too bold for a woman to look directly into a man's eyes; but you'll still get a slight tilt of her head so she can make brief eye contact indicating her interest in you. A lot of these cues are not under conscious control - such as the widening of the eyes and the enlargement of the pupils in seeing something we like.

This is merely a description of how a woman might express interest in a man in non-dating circumstances. She gets your attention by asking a question, expresses her interest in you (looking into your eyes slightly longer than socially normal, turning toward you). Her question will probably be open-ended rather than a simple yes/no. Women are generally more aware of these cues -- in fact that's a lot of what women discuss when they're talking about men, boyfriends, husbands - these cues that might lead to what a particular man is thinking. But general cues don't always apply to individuals due to background and prior experience.

'Game players' try to consciously use these sub-conscious gestures but there is usually some kind of disconnect. The mouth might be saying one thing - I love you - while the body is saying something totally different - crossing the arms, turning the head away, or even backing away. Game players cannot control all the sub-conscious body signals that indicate interest. the head tilt is too much or not enough, the body may be turning away when it should be turning toward you. Or there is a conflict in the signals - hips may turn toward you but arms crossing chest. Because they can't control everything - the pupils contracting (assuming you didn't just step into sunlight) are particularly hard to disguise.

Because most people aren't trained in body language, maybe all they feel is something is wrong or a bit confused or a feeling in their gut that the other person can't be trusted. Those signals were noticed sub-consciously and they weren't all in agreement or perhaps they are in the wrong sequence. These are all natural gestures that reflect everyday normal behaviors between men and woman. Players often recognize these actions and mimic them in an attempt to use people. Some are very good at it, but no one cane continue to fool someone for an extended amount of time.

Hi Igor - As usual, you provide a wonderful explanation in a succinct and elegant manner. My only (slight) disagreement is with
Humans are NOT elegantly designed works of DNA precision. We are kluged together chunks of this and that, and we lurch across the planet as best we can, doing what we can with what happens to be in front of us.
We may not be perfectly designed, but we are elegantly lathed by our environments.
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 79
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the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/25/2015 10:52:08 AM

sealady111
A question for you Henry. In a different thread you stated that MeetUps have many more women than men.
Why? Why do you think this is the case?

I think this is another age related thing. I (and many others) have talked about how the playing field is tilted very strongly in favor of women when we are in our 20’s, but how this shifts gradually and is tilted in favor of men later in life. This is in the area of OLD, not Meetup. But my limited experience says this is probably true in Meetup as well.

A couple of years ago, when I first started trying out Meetup groups, I went to a couple of meetups put on by a group of singles open to all ages. The people who attended were mostly in their 20’s and early 30’s, and there were more men than women. I felt really, really out of place due to my age.

So I concentrated on Meetup groups for people 50+. One group I tried out was comprised mostly of heavy drinkers. I gave up heavy drinking many years ago, but there did appear to be some sexual overtones there, which was quite interesting. The second meetup group for over 50s that I tried is the one that I am presently involved with, and having a very nice time.

But both of these over 50 meetup groups were / are very heavily tilted, many more women than men. Often 3 or 4 women to every man at an event. I was at a game night recently, attendance limited to the first 25 to sign up. Of the 25, only 3 were men. Game nights always have a large interest, many more want to come than can be accommodated. I have suggested to our coordinator that she reserve half of the spots for men. Unfortunately, the software that they are using does not allow for that.

But back to your question, why so few men? I think the answer is the same for OLD and for Meetups. Men give up. Or, “older” men give up. As abelian was so fond of saying, “Men give relationships to get sex. Women give sex to get relationships.” Older men have less testosterone, and are not driven to achieve sex. (I myself am an exception to this, but I digress.)

Consequently, because the men are not driven so hard to have / achieve sex, they find it easier just to sit home and watch the game on TV. Women, on the other hand, are much more “social” than men. They want to gather in groups, do things together, etc.


sealady111
I think that NOW is the best time for women and possibly the worst time for men.
Very, very different from hunter - gatherers.

Are we talking about ALL men and women, of ALL ages? You might be right. If we’re talking about the over 50 crowd, I think this is a GREAT time for men.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 80
the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/25/2015 11:09:31 AM

“Men give relationships to get sex. Women give sex to get relationships.” Older men have less testosterone, and are not driven to achieve sex. (I myself am an exception to this, but I digress.)


So would you say then that older women are more sexual or want more sex? Or are they looking for a companion?

I never quite understood the menopause thing. Many women lose their libido after that, yet others, and I don't know why, their libido's go through the roof.

I do find that women after 40 tend to loose their inhibitions and are more willing to have and demand to have sex.
 Ladyinred4755
Joined: 1/30/2012
Msg: 81
the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/25/2015 12:16:25 PM
"So would you say then that older women are more sexual or want more sex?"
Older women more often, free to do as they wish, WHEN they wish. Kids have left the nest. Not just simply WANT more sex, but free to HAVE more sex. More free time. Also no pregnancy worries. LOL No need for all the "science" seeking stuff. NOT having any babies!

" Or are they looking for a companion?"
Yes, the above applies here also. We have more free time to enjoy activities together, either with female friends and/or a male companion.


"I never quite understood the menopause thing."
Just a suggestion. Perhaps you may want to look into this , as I would think your bride to be will appreciate your support in this matter when those years come around for her. (?)

"Many women lose their libido after that, yet others, and I don't know why, their libido's go through the roof."
Every female is different. No 2 are exactly alike. Hormonal changes can be slight or cause "WTF", minutes to hours. (OMG, IS it HOT in here or just me?)
Unpredictable!!!!!!!!!!! The DURING phase can be minor to major, life changing.

"I do find that women after 40 tend to loose their inhibitions and are more willing to have and demand to have sex." Again, as we get older, we may have more free time and we care less and less what other people think of us.

I truly care for and love my family, and friends. But I don't ask for their permission to do whatever I feel like doing. Life is short and "Someday" may never get here.
LOL, As long as the sun is shining, there is gas in the tank, the open road is calling!
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 82
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the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/27/2015 11:44:19 AM

InnerGorilla
So would you say then that older women are more sexual or want more sex? Or are they looking for a companion?

I never quite understood the menopause thing. Many women lose their libido after that, yet others, and I don't know why, their libido's go through the roof.

I do find that women after 40 tend to loose their inhibitions and are more willing to have and demand to have sex.

Over the last 5.5 years, I have dated women as young as 37, and as old as 71. Their interest in sex ranged from completely not giving a damn if they ever have sex, to being every bit as interested in sex as I am. And I have seen absolutely no correlation between age and sexual desires, none, zip, zilch, nada.

I have discussed this subject with many women (menopause and it’s effects on sexual appetites). Some women say their interest diminishes greatly, others say it increases greatly, others say it had zero effect.

I do believe, for those woman past menopause, who have a real interest in sex, they tend to be MUCH more adventurous. Which is a VERY GOOD THING!
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 83
the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/27/2015 11:53:14 AM

I have discussed this subject with many women (menopause and it’s effects on sexual appetites). Some women say their interest diminishes greatly, others say it increases greatly, others say it had zero effect.


OHenry, you mean to tell me that you talk about menopause with your dates? I dare you. I dare you. Hehehehe. Could not resist. And yes, this too is a subject that I have talked to women. Women in general, from dates to family, to significant others.


And I have seen absolutely no correlation between age and sexual desires, none, zip, zilch, nada.


Let me take out my pen and make a note of the above. It's good to know.
 ClooneysMentor
Joined: 8/2/2015
Msg: 84
the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/27/2015 11:59:52 AM
The darkest moment in my dating history was with a post menopausal woman.

The others were nice women, but the darkest sticks in my mind.

Telling me she wouldn't need happy pills any more since her ovaries were removed.

All I could think, was damn, you're still a b!tch.

Can't imagine her before the happy pills or ovaries removed...
 sealady111
Joined: 5/31/2015
Msg: 85
the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/29/2015 8:42:55 PM
^^^^ What an odd thing to say???
Does that extend that if a man has his testes removed he also no longer needs happy pills?


I do not think that age has anything to do with a woman's libido.
At least not this woman's libido.


Although I will say that my hysterectomy was the best thing I ever did.
YAY..... You men have it sooooo easy.


All I need now is to find a willing, suitable partner.
My challenge is I want 1 partner who also wants 1 partner.
AND I want to do things together OUTSIDE the bedroom as well.

Finding men interested in a bedroom romp and nothing else is easy.


 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 86
the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/29/2015 9:24:50 PM

I do believe that this phenomenon also explains what guys refer to as 'the friendzone.

Yes, it's programmed into males to befriend a woman despite the lack of mutual attraction with the hope that at some point, sex will happen after a certain amount of investment. Women usually offer or accept the friendship and allow it assuming that he's aware there is no attraction and he's fine with it remaining platonic.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 87
the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 8/30/2015 5:15:31 AM

Their interest in sex ranged from completely not giving a damn if they ever have sex, to being every bit as interested in sex as I am. And I have seen absolutely no correlation between age and sexual desires, none, zip, zilch, nada.


"Ovarian production of estradiol and progesterone and testosterone levels decreases with the onset of true menopause. Although hormone levels will eventually decrease, lower estrogen levels aren't experienced until 6 months to 1 year before true menopause."

So lower testosterone levels will cause a decrease in libido in women, while lower estrogen levels while testosterone levels remain the same will cause an increase in libido.

So I can see depending on when and how these two hormones, women can at first have a increased libido, then have an decrease, and then have another increase.

Also, menopause signals a change in life that is hard to ignore, women no longer think about getting pregnant , it could be mentally freeing or mentally depressing.

Men are much more linear and decreasing testosterone levels always causes a decrease in libido. Our hormones decline without jumping up and down. The only real difference is the rate of decline and age it declines is going to be different for different men. So some men at 45 begin to experience a decrease interest in sex, while other men don't experience this till their late 60s.

IMO it is good information for men to get their hormone levels checked, if for no other reason than to know what is normal for you, because eventually they do change. (a complete hormone test without insurance should cost about $170 if you look around.)
the whole boy/girl thing hasn't changed since we were hunter-gatherers on the African savannah
Posted: 9/2/2015 4:48:07 PM
Ok, I can tell that I'll have to say a few things in here when I can get around to it. But for now, just this...

yes. because technology doesn't change the species; it only changes the efficiency with which its male members can try to kill, ****, or piss on something.

Oh, c'mon, man! Fo rizzle?
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