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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 216
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...Page 10 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
You say tomato I say tomatoe:


The article said it was an exceptionally American problem.
Mass shootings in the U.S.: Guns, glory, broken dreams

NOT: American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says

A new study sheds light on why mass shootings in the U.S. are 'an exceptionally American problem'


The article does say:


His work discusses the reasons behind his finding, and in the context of the theory of American exceptionalism, he finds that there is indeed something uniquely American about mass shootings.


In addition, I never found where Lansford said this:


It found that American mass shooters were more likely to arm themselves with multiple weapons, though they killed fewer people than shooters in other countries.


Perhaps you can quote that part of the article that I cannot find ^^^.


So in the view of the professor, and in my own POV, it isn't about gun availability or regulation, it's about USA culture being more prone to violence when goals aren't achieved.


I'm confused....why did Lansford point out:


Many Americans take their constitutional right to bear arms very seriously, and Lankford's study points out that the U.S. ranks first out of 178 countries when it comes to gun ownership. A 2007 survey showed Americans own 88.8 guns per 100 people. Canada ranked 13th, but is not even close to the U.S. with 30.8 guns per 100 people.


Why is it so important to ignore that it is a person with a readily available gun responsible for killing another human being.

I really don't know much of the details about other mass killings---other than the Sandy Hook massacre.

Adam Lanza's weapons were all straw purchases...his mother purchased all of his weapons-legally. He entered the Sandy Hook Elementary School with an AR-15 and ten 30 round mags...within 5 minutes had shot 154 times killing 20 children and 6 adults...he had already killed his mother....27 dead...20 children...all 1st and 2nd graders...Would Adam Lanza have been able to make those gun purchases on his own?


EDIT TO INCLUDE:

bigbadnirish: Teaching a man to fish.


Please...don't insult me...Just quote from the article where it said fewer were killed in America...because I did read the article...is it your intention to troll me...pizz me off...what...you go out of your way to reply to everything but what I've asked..
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 217
view profile
History
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 12:52:43 PM

What if, the solution isn't to reduce everyone's freedoms, but to work toward reducing the conditions that lead some few to initiate force against their fellow humans?

I entirely agree with this. At the same time, limiting access to guns also limits 'spur-of-the-moment' decisions when one is under the influence of anything from drugs to anger to despair.


in a world where technology enables one to print up a working gun that is ready to fire within a few hours I don't see that more rules are going to do much to curtail the behavior of those that don't care about rules

True, and nobody is claiming that regulations eliminate behaviour. Nonetheless, ease-of-access makes a difference. The reason cigarette smoking rate has declined is because access is limited, due to cost and because of laws limiting where one can smoke. One of the biggest objections to legalizing marijuana is that it will increase marijuana use among the population, and especially among kids.

Someone very close to me was attacked a year or so ago; the attacker used a knife because in his words, he wasn't able to get a gun, which he would have preferred. My friend survived the attack, barely, because it was a knife that was used instead of a gun. If getting a gun was easier in Canada, my friend would have been dead that day.


Perhaps we should be focusing on why people choose to kill others, instead of what means they choose to do it.

In my friend's case, the attacker had a variety of reason - some of them contradictory. He is currently in a psychiatric hospital. Even 'addressing the reasons' isn't a foolproof method of eliminating violent behaviour, but it would certainly help.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 218
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 1:06:08 PM
bigbadnirish: Teaching a man to fish.

Get the article in your browser, copy a unique sounding phase, like "American mass shooters", paste that into the "find" feature (control F) then search for the phase.

You will find it in the article, and in the future you can use this to find other things like this easily.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-guns-glory-broken-dreams-1.3203335

The rest I paraphrased by looking at the text. Like when I said my own POV, Lansford didn't quote my own POV.

take care and good luck, I am out of this thread.

ciao
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 219
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 1:21:28 PM

So in the view of the professor, and in my own POV, it isn't about gun availability or regulation, it's about USA culture being more prone to violence when goals aren't achieved.

Yes... I agree that he believes it MAY be due to Americans being more "violence prone"... which I'm sure would have some small part to play in crime rates... but... is it simply more prone to FATAL violence... and as he states... he doesn't know that... he didn't look at that... and... I think it is safe to assume you didn't either... beyond forming an opinion... That's fine...

Now... I have posted these very same numbers... in one form or another... many times on these forums... almost every gun control thread there has been... some I am sure you have participated in... but I won't expect you to go digging up other threads... or remember every detail...

Here is how the numbers lay out... this is from numerous governmental... and NGO... surveys on crime... The actual numbers are 2011 numbers... as that is the latest that all these numbers can be found for all these places...

AND... I am only using... stable democracies... relatively, it does include Italy and Greece... with relatively low levels of corruption... again, same caveat... and relatively sound, effective law enforcement...

They are also... either... the primary founding cultural populations of the US... or... societies with the same primary founding cultural populations... such as the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand...

First... how it's organized...

country, rate/ownership, total/homicides, rate/homicides, total/gun homicides, rate/gun homicides, rate/homicides less gun

Now the numbers...

australia, 15.0, 254, 1.1, 43, 0.2, 0.9
austria, 30.4, 71, 0.8, 8, 0.1, 0.7
belgium, 17.2, 198, 1.8, 36, 0.33, 1.47
canada, 30.8, 543, 1.6, 172, 0.51, 1.09
czech, 16.3, 83, 0.8, 16, 0.15, 0.65
denmark, 12.0, 44, 0.8, 12, 0.22, 0.58
finland, 45.7, 116, 2.2, 18, 0.33, 1.87
france, 31.2, 743, 1.2, 127, 0.2, 1.0
germany, 30.3, 662, 0.8, 61, 0.07, 0.73
greece, 22.5, 184, 1.6, 60, 0.53, 1.07
iceland, 30.3, 3, 0.9, 0, 0.0, 0.9
ireland, 6.35, 53, 1.12, 12, 0.25, 0.87
italy, 11.9, 552, 0.9, 209, 0.35, 0.55
luxembourg, 15.3, 4, 0.8, 3, 0.6, 0.2
netherlands, 3.9, 144, 0.9, 49, 0.29, 0.61
new zealand, 22.6, 83, 1.9, 8, 0.18, 1.72
norway, 31.3, 111, 2.3, 5, 0.1, 2.2
poland, 1.3, 449, 1.2, 16, 0.04, 1.16
portugal, 24.22, 114, 1.1, 19, 0.18, 0.92
spain, 10.4, 387, 0.8, 57, 0.12, 0.68
sweden, 31.6, 81, 0.9, 18, 0.19, 0.71
switzerland, 45.7, 46, 0.59, 22, 0.28, 0.31
UK, 6.7, 653, 1.03, 38, 0.06, 0.97
US, 88.8, 14827, 4.7, 11101, 3.6, 1.1

You should pay special attention to the last number... the rate of homicides... with gun homicides removed... You will notice that... the US... is virtually the same everyone else... fairly close to... "middle of the pack"...

So... it may very well be true that Americans are more "violence prone"... but it doesn't show up as fatal violence... more than anywhere else with similar cultural origins... once you take the guns out of the mix...

And THAT... given the effect regulation has had on this in other countries... tells me... that addressing the availability of loads of firepower... reduces death and violence... clearly so...
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 220
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 2:43:49 PM

Perhaps you missed all the posts I've been making about the unregulated gun show loophole, or private gun sale argument I've been making throughout this thread. Or are you making a semantic argument that "I've never proposed legislation" with my argument? Gawd daymut close the loophole.

I've written about high capacity magazines...you know...30-100 round magazines that hunters really need...cough....cough...

I've written about assault type weapons...AR-15 type guns that "sometime" (cough cough) get easily converted into fully automatic weapons.

Why don't you explain how You easily Convert a AR15 Type Rifle to Full Auto?

What are the advantages or disadvantages of Full Auto Fire, for a Solo Person, not part of a Group?

In a US Army Infantry Fire Team, why does only one Member of the Fire Team, have a Full Auto Weapon?
Why did the US Army switch from Full Auto M16A1s, to 3 round Burst M16A2/M4?
Why do all the other members of the Fire Team, have their Weapons on Semi Auto?


So, let me spell it out for you:

1. Close the private sale loophole that exists in much of America.

2. Limit magazine size.

3. Regulate assault type weapons in all states.

This type of regulation will precipitate the usual rebuttal "don't take away our guns!"


Should a Spouse be able to buy a firearm, as a gift, for their Husband/Wife?
Should a Parent or Grandparent, be able to give their Child/Grandchild a firearm?

Why did You pick that size magazine for Your Limit?
Why is a 29 round mag, OK, but a 30 round one, not?

What exactly is a Assault Type Weapon & what makes it different from a Non-Assault Weapon?
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 221
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 2:45:42 PM
It is just really boring in Canada because all things PC prevailed and there is nothing to deride people for or attempt to feel superior about anymore. Just let it slide.

By the way, doesn't Canada have more guns per capita than the USA but they just don't shoot each other as much? Maybe that is the focus of the inquiry. A powerful government and its people without guns is not a good mix. Lived in that. Would not want to see that in the USA>

By the way, closing a loophole would NOT stop illegal sales.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 222
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 2:54:19 PM

What are the advantages or disadvantages of Full Auto Fire, for a Solo Person, not part of a Group?

In a US Army Infantry Fire Team, why does only one Member of the Fire Team, have a Full Auto Weapon?
Why did the US Army switch from Full Auto M16A1s, to 3 round Burst M16A2/M4?
Why do all the other members of the Fire Team, have their Weapons on Semi Auto?

Why don't you explain to us... the difference between combat... and being in the middle of an unsuspecting group with the ability to place large numbers of rounds "down range"... if there is such a thing when "down range" is a 360 degree arc... and no ready, easy avenues of retreat for large numbers of panicked people...

Then... perhaps... we'll see whether this actually does have any relevance...
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 223
view profile
History
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 2:56:47 PM

It is just really boring in Canada

Better boring than dead.

because all things PC prevailed and there is nothing to deride people for

Yes, I agree -- we are pretty nice people, overall - though we do have a few racist, ignorant whackos. Not nearly as many as does the States and they certainly don't get to a position where they have some support for leading the country.

or attempt to feel superior about anymore

Well we do actually feel superior because you know, we have regulated gun ownership - and a lot less gun death than the States, so we don't have to suffer regular mass murders, have our kids mowed down while they're at school or movie theaters. And, we also tend to feel superior about our tax-supported medical system. We think it's important to make sure all our citizens benefit from the wealth created within our nation .... although sadly, we are following in the US path toward more income inequality. Possibly the upcoming election will change all that, we'll see.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 224
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 3:00:26 PM
Hey, 4ms4me. Just an observation. I am glad that we agree,
 congupnaroad
Joined: 7/22/2015
Msg: 225
view profile
History
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 4:06:23 PM

Jim Cooley said he was exercising his second amendment rights by carrying his AR-15 rifle into Atlanta's airport, which is protected under state and federal law.
A Georgia man walked into Hartsfield–Jackson Atlanta International Airport with his wife, his daughter and, around his neck, a fully loaded AR-15 rifle — and he had the law on his side.

Jim Cooley is legally allowed to have his rifle in the terminal of the world's busiest airport for passenger traffic, and he told the Daily News he has no concerns about igniting fear in those who see him packing in public.

"People think that if you're simply carrying your firearm, regardless of how you're carrying it, you're a bad person," he told the News Wednesday morning. "But if you're not carrying it in a menacing or threatening manner, it should be no cause for concern for anybody."


nydailynews.com

3rd June 2015

I really respect the rights of citizens to be able to carry a fully loaded assault rifle into an airport (he had a 100 round drum) ! All in the name of the "right to bear arms".(Pfft!).

Cooley said "you never know what might happen" and he carried his fully loaded assault rifle to protect his daughter as he was simply dropping her off at the airport. Isn't that what airport security are for?

In reality he expected no one at that airport to think WTF?

What a loonie! Now that is atypical of the paranoid delusional thinking that Americans who are advocating gun reform are faced with.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 226
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 4:35:58 PM

Joe I see you actually created your own more sensational headline which changed the meaning of the original article and made it more provocative.

The article said it was an exceptionally American problem.

Might as well throw this in as well... since it looks like you aren't going to have anything to say... about what has been posted...

But... In fact... the author of the study... EXPLICITLY says...

"Overall, some combination of American exceptionalism, American gun culture, and American strains could potentially explain the commonality of public mass shooters in the United States," Lankford writes.

So again... I didn't "sensationalize" any damn thing... YOU just didn't bother to actually read the stuff you were commenting on... again... and just jumped to your own... incorrect... conclusions...
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 227
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 5:07:04 PM

Should a Spouse be able to buy a firearm, as a gift, for their Husband/Wife?


I dunno...is the husband a convicted felon? has a mental disorder? If the wife discloses the gun is a gift doesn't she have to disclose that fact so the recipient of the gift has to fill out the disclosures and submit to the background check?


Should a Parent or Grandparent, be able to give their Child/Grandchild a firearm?


Is the child 21 or older? That's the federal age requirement for a licensed sale of a handgun...the requirement for a private sale is that the seller must reasonably believe the buyer is 18 or older (cough cough). This is another area that regulation could change...Adam Lanza was 20 when he massacred 27 people with handguns and an AR-15 his mother gave him. Should not the age of purchase/gift/ownership be 21?


Why did You pick that size magazine for Your Limit?


Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit...I've never proposed a magazine size limit...other's with much more knowledge have made more reasoned suggestions about that issue.


Why is a 29 round mag, OK, but a 30 round one, not?


Who ever said 30 is the number? I've only bandied about the 30-100 sizes preferred by "hunters"


Why don't you explain how You easily Convert a AR15 Type Rifle to Full Auto?


I dunno, but, one of your pro-gun comrades has said that a handgun can be easily crafted at home with a lathe...so, I figure with all the conversion kits available on the internet to convert from semi to auto it can't be rocket science. A simple google on how to convert an AR15 from semi to auto turns up 325,000 results.


What exactly is a Assault Type Weapon & what makes it different from a Non-Assault Weapon?


I dunno....the simplicity of semi to auto conversion?


By the way, doesn't Canada have more guns per capita than the USA


Gawd...it's been mentioned often in this thread...and is easily findable by google...that Canada ranks 13 in per capita gun ownership while the US comes in number 1-we're exceptional.


By the way, closing a loophole would NOT stop illegal sales.


Do you think it might slow down illegal sales? You truly are a Republican...all you know is no and never offer any rational alternative suggest/recommendation.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 228
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 6:18:05 PM

BB-Irish:
I've written about high capacity magazines...you know...30-100 round magazines that hunters really need...cough....cough...



Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit...I've never proposed a magazine size limit...other's with much more knowledge have made more reasoned suggestions about that issue.

You're the one who stated a 30-100 round magazine is a 'High Capacity Magazine'....
The Facts are a 30 round magazine, is the Standard Capacity Magazine for a AR type Rifle....

BB-Irish:
I've written about assault type weapons...AR-15 type guns that "sometime" (cough cough) get easily converted into fully automatic weapons.



BB-Eyes:
Why don't you explain how You easily Convert a AR15 Type Rifle to Full Auto?



BB-Irish:
I dunno, but, one of your pro-gun comrades has said that a handgun can be easily crafted at home with a lathe...so, I figure with all the conversion kits available on the internet to convert from semi to auto it can't be rocket science. A simple google on how to convert an AR15 from semi to auto turns up 325,000 results.

You're the one who posted it's easy to do, Back Up Your Claim!
Did you know it's a Federal Felony to possess a DIAS (Drop in Auto Sear) & the FCG (Fire Control Group) for a M16?
It's Legal if You have a NFA Tax Stamp for the Parts....

You don't think the BATFE would go after those people selling 'Conversion Kits'?


The National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. 5845(b) defines “machine gun” to include any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a weapon to shoot automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
...... snip.......
Regardless of the date of manufacture of a drop in auto sear, possession of such a sear and certain M16 fire control parts is possession of a machine gun as defined by the NFA. Specifically, these parts are a combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a weapon into a machine gun as defined in the NFA.

https://www.atf.gov/file/58146/download



You see People talk about Firearms all the Time, where their knowledge comes from some anti gun group or TV/Movies...
I remember a video of a TV News report about Assault Weapons, yet when they cut to a clip shot at a Local Police Range, they showed them Shooting Full Auto M16s.... Was that the Police trying to Confuse the Issue, or the TV Station?
IDK, but it was disingenuous at Best.....
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 229
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 6:48:21 PM

The Facts are a 30 round magazine, is the Standard Capacity Magazine for a AR type Rifle..


Oh really....and what is the max magazine capacity for an AR15 in California? Connecticut?New York? 10 rounds...now that doesn't sound like YOUR standard size. Don't you live in California...and you're in the business and don't know the rules??? Or are you lying again???


For a few hundred dollars, you can convert the semi-automatic AR-15 into a rifle that can simulate automatic fire. And it’s perfectly legal.

To understand how this works, you first need to know about a process called “bump firing.” When you bump fire a semi-automatic rifle, your non-shooting hand pulls the rifle forward until the trigger hits your rigid trigger finger, thus firing the rifle. Then, recoil sends the rifle bouncing back and forth against your rigid trigger finger, causing it to keep shooting at an accelerated rate, simulating automatic fire.

You generally bump fire from your hip, and you can’t really aim the rifle, which makes the technique kind of frivolous. If your fingers don’t work and you can’t squeeze a trigger, bump firing is a godsend. Otherwise, bump firing is only useful if you want to waste a lot of ammo fast.

At least that was the case until a couple of years ago. That’s when a company called Slide Fire Solutions introduced a replacement rifle stock called the SSAR-15 that, for $369, allows you to bump fire your AR-15-style rifle from your shoulder while still retaining accuracy and control. The stock, in the simplest terms, is the part of the rifle you hold and brace against your shoulder. According to the Slide Fire website, “unlike traditional bump firing, the Slidestock allows the shooter to properly hold the firearm and maintain complete control at all times. As a result of the forward movement required to discharge each round, the shooter naturally corrects their point-of-aim for each shot and prevents recoil from pushing the firearm's muzzle upward in an unsafe direction.” Or, as the subhed more concisely puts it, the SSAR-15 lets a shooter “unleash 100 rounds, in 7 seconds.” A product review at a site called Guns America notes that the SSAR-15 “installs in one minute with no special skills.”
http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/01/07/slide_fire_this_simple_legal_add_on_lets_an_ar_15_fire_900_rounds_per_minute.html


Phoenix, Arizona based Tactical Fire Control Inc., has just teased out a drop-in trigger group that promises to turn your basic AR into a (nearly) full-auto rifle with no need for the onerous NFA licensing process.

According to TFC, the so-called "3MR" trigger is set up to switch between safe, semi-auto and a third fire control mode which uses a "positive reset" to cut down on shot-times.

The positive reset characteristic is achieved by transferring the force from the bolt carrier through the trigger assembly to assist the trigger back onto the front sear. As a result, this gives the firearm the fastest reset possible.

Looks pretty freaking amazing. And in case you thought this was too good to be true, Tactical Fire Control has a copy of the ATF letter certifying their 3MR trigger as a non-NFA semi-auto trigger.

The 3MR trigger will retail for about $500. The company is accepting pre-orders and says the trigger will be set to ship by early 2014.
http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/guns/new-trigger-makes-ar-15s-nearly-full-auto/


THE PURPOSE OF THIS PRODUCT
The ARFA Kit is provided for educational purposes ONLY! What you do with it is YOUR business.
WHAT IS AN ARFA KIT
The ARFA Kit contains all of the materials necessary to make the parts that will convert a Bushmaster AR-15 (or other AR-15 with similar specs) from semi-auto to full-auto.
http://arfakit.com/

And on and on and on...and the thing is BBE, you being in the business, know all about all these near and full conversions.

The real truth is you're so wrapped up in gun ownership and your exceptionalism that you couldn't give one flying fvck about the senseless killing that crazy irresponsible people do with their guns...you actually think that giving a child a handgun is OK...

We do not live on the same planet.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 230
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 7:16:50 PM
The big truth is USA gun violence has been falling for the last 20 years and has declined 49% since the peak.

U.S. GUN HOMICIDES, THE GAP BETWEEN PERCEPTION AND REALITY
Killings by gun falling, but rate still higher than most other industrialized countries

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/u-s-gun-homicides-the-gap-between-perception-and-reality-1.1858107

While mass shooting are up a little, but less people are killed in mass shooting than in developed foreign countries.


But... In fact... the author of the study... EXPLICITLY says...
blah, blah, blah.

SO? Does that give you the right to change the meaning and tone of the article?

The author also explicitly said:


It found that American mass shooters were more likely to arm themselves with multiple weapons, though they killed fewer people than shooters in other countries.


So I could titled this thread:

Study says AMERICAN MASS SHOOTERS KILL LESS PEOPLE THAN IN OTHER COUNTRIES!

You chose a phase taken out of the article that made it seem like the the study concluded "American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder" The article made no such conclusion.

So you are slanting the article to create a more sensational thread topic, to attract USA posters into defending their country.

Use the original title, not something taken out of context.

Joe,I responded since you did provide the numbers, it was interesting that the USA has twice as many guns as Switzerland but 12 times the rate of death by gun. Though on average the population of Switzerland is older than the USA.

I don't have the time to spend in political threads, they all tend to be circlejerks between two opposing camps. I only responded again as a courtesy and you seemed annoyed by my leaving.


There are a lot of guns in Switzerland, but culturally they don't have a lot of gun violence and the rate of homicide excluding guns is 75% lower. So regardless of availability of guns, they have less violence. They also have one of the most restrictive immigration policies in the world, it's very difficult to become a Swiss national. They are a fairly closed society.

I venture to guess no other country in the world has the diverse mix of minorities that the USA has. The average age of Canada and other European countries is higher than the USA.

Younger people tend to be more violent than older people. You see a direct correlation between average population age and less violence.

Minorities mixing together tend to create a lot of tension which can spill over to violence. Some immigrants from places like Mexico come from a culture with a lot more gun violence than the USA. A lot of reasons the USA may have more violence than other countries. Sooner or later the minorities become integrated into the mainstream.

Gun violence is still too high in the USA, but it's been falling and coming under control. That's my most significant take away from this discussion.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 231
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 8:45:43 PM

You see People talk about Firearms all the Time, where their knowledge comes from some anti gun group or TV/Movies...
I remember a video of a TV News report about Assault Weapons, yet when they cut to a clip shot at a Local Police Range, they showed them Shooting Full Auto M16s.... Was that the Police trying to Confuse the Issue, or the TV Station?

An M16 meets the full definition of not only so called "Assault Weapons" but Assault Rifle as well, so I don't see what you are taking issue with here.

Perhaps if the general populace were more educated on firearm terminology such as "clip vs. magazine" and "Assault Rifle," gun homicides in the US would not be so prevalent. [sarcasm + eyeroll...]
 8inscrew
Joined: 11/17/2014
Msg: 232
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 8:59:36 PM
I mentioned being able to build a firearm with a lathe, drill press, and basic shop tools.
Talk about basic?
I also mentioned machinists directly.
Your interpretation of my words speak loudly of your dysfunction.

Could a machinist or whoever build it in the basement?
Yes, with very specific training, skills, and tooling capability.
Could a kid hold a shotgun shell in pliers and whack it with a hammer?
dumdumdum

Can a goldsmith build wedding rings in their basement?
Yes, with very specific training, skills, and tooling capability.
Not at all the same as a 9 yo girl building friendship bracelets for her bffs....


Irish, you have made some good points here.
Why dilute your argument by misrepresenting what was actually said?


Much like Joe.
Why title your thread that way?
The study did not say equals.
Plays a part? Yes.
As do many other factors.....



You equate things that way.
Obvious. Level basic.

You claimed no one has mentioned banning or taking guns away......
but you have. Several times. Even joking about a Canadian "thing" about shooting us turistas....
because you can disarm us first.
Also when you said if "we" took guns out of the equation, on this very page.


Possibly the reason your movement hasn't caught on.....

because you guys act like this.
Make up new definitions, misreport studies, throw insults in where rational folks wouldn't.
Rewrite history to suit your dreams. Then insult others when they correct you or provide fact.

How many insults will you sling for this post, right here?


I agree strongly about the mass shootings being horrible.
IED too. Suicide bombers and the hari kari..... who thinks that way?
How do we fix that?
Ban household products?
Like guns, knives, and chemicals?
Metallurgists and chemists too? Black belts of whatever religion?

Do responsible chemists make LSD?
Why do they disseminate the actual Lysergic acid diethylimide formula to college chemistry students?


In my experience, guns are passed down and training begins young.
They are tools to be used for putting down livestock, hunting, sporting (fun), collecting (bragging), and protection.
Pretty much in that order. I grew up a city boy. Find myself at the opposite end of the spectrum now.
Been a gun "owner" for about 30 years.....
big life lesson on absolute responsibility at 8 or 10 years old.
Time has shaped what I want to conserve.






Bumpfire stocks are not illegal, and they do not convert your rifle to automatic.
They are silly if you consider how much cheaper it is to get the tax stamp.
(Shaving the draw weight is legal too..)



Don't like our rules, laws, and rights?
Stay out.
Amend our Constitution.

Press for the offending parties to be held accountable. Prosecute that Mother.
She should spend 27 life sentences for getting her son the tools to express his mental illness.
That is a fact. She made that tragedy possible, directly.
He could have just download the A C Book, and figure out another way to become infamous.....
because he was mentally damaged and should have been on a shorter leash anyways.
Regardless, she is directly responsible for the Sandy Massacre.
He did not qualify for gun ownership in the USA.

It's also a fact that the USA does regulate gun sales and ownership.
Don't like our regulations? ........

Here we have some Canadians feeling superior. Again.
Surprising.




I also should point out that many foreigners think all Americans are like John Wayne,
Al Bundy, shoot 'em up cop shows, Rosie O and Jeraldo.

Oh ya, fat, dumb, lazy, well armed, and aggressive.
At least our media is getting some things right.








3d printing a gun?....... never heard of that.
Probably want to test fire that thing on a wire.

Dragon... your posts are great. Very succinct.
Don't let these guys troll you out of posting or caring.....
Btw.. you strike me as a man who doesn't actually use guns very much.
Do you even own one?


fly.... an Armalite does not even qualify for assault rifle status.....
AR stands for Armalite Rifle.... lol.
But you do actually know that, I suspect.
put a NATO round in a "Sporting rifle" other than an Armalite.......
Find out the definitions first hand.

Anyone listen to that Whiskey Myers?
Daddy's cup by drive by truckers is another look into "Americans"

Good luck everybody. You're gonna need it.
 sacredrain
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 233
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 10:08:13 PM

3d printing a gun?....... never heard of that.
Probably want to test fire that thing on a wire.


First firings of single shot printed hand gun was nearly 3 years ago. They're up to making lower receivers to fire nato 7.62x51 at this point. Only the lower receiver matters as it is the only part that is regulated by the federal regime in the US. Easily circumvented.

NEWS : Powerful 3D-Printed Rifle Fires NATO Rounds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6TjPMrARds

Downloadable 3-D printed gun capable of firing 600 rounds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF9kmPQCH98

There are hundreds of vids of 3d printed guns on utube.

Laws and regulations are not the solution. Making people not want to kill each other is the answer.
 8inscrew
Joined: 11/17/2014
Msg: 234
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 10:16:39 PM
Joe said he and his countrymen want to kill us if we visit.... I see the problem.
It's even a frequent enough event to deserve a label and a joke over there?
At least to Joe and now us... no chuckle for educating ministers like you Jose`.

Invitation is still open tho...... must be hard for you to let off some steam.








Can the printers riffle and stuff too?

I grew up in a capable shop...... was pulling iron pretty young. 8.

Yes I hammered a shot shell.
But only after modifying the pliers...
hence the reason for the education.






Edit.

Guess I am uninformed about the implications of owning 3d printers.
The old way of reverse engineering was to get one and take it apart.... make new parts cheap as possible.
Now I could just get a printer full of plastic and press 100 copies?

This calls for even more individual vidulence.
Maybe a registry of plastic.....
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 235
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/3/2015 4:13:18 AM
OK...watch carefully, because this is how it is done. I was wrong! The is no complete information on the internet, that I can find, to convert an AR15 from semi to fully automatic. I'm sure those in the know can do a conversion and do conversions, but the information does exist and any easily searchable manner on the internet.

What seems to be readily available on the internet are bump and slide conversions that enhance the firing rate of an AR15 without actually going fully automatic. I have no idea what the effect of shaving the draw weight has. Is this shaving the trigger down, in the manner of a hair trigger, to reduce trigger pull?


In my experience, guns are passed down and training begins young.


Yanno, I do get it. My father bought a .22 rifle for us when I was a boy. Did I ever get unrestricted use of the rifle-NO. Did we go target shooting together yes. Was the rifle locked away so that I couldn't go into the woods and kill some critters-YES. We also had a Civil War Colt .44 revolver. We had a ball mold and poured our own ammo. It was a treat to go out a shoot that gun. Did I ever shoot that gun without supervision...absolutely not. You see, my father, being the wise man he was, knew the impulse control that children have is not as matured as most adults. He did not want me to be the recipient or perpetrator of some horrible accident. Just down the street from where I live 2 boys were cutting school 20-25 years ago...they went to one of the boys homes who had guns in the house...well, the guest boy shot his friend...shot the friends dog...and shot the mother, who was a teacher, when she got home. If I recall correctly these boys were 12-13 at the time. A friend of my was a town detective who investigated the murders....he told me the shooter was a born, undiagnosed, psychopath who had never been diagnosed...the boy showed absolutely no remorse for what he had done. He never had time to be diagnosed-before he murdered his friend and his mother...all because a gun was left out.

We don't require gun safety training...we don't require responsibility training...we don't require use training...we only have to show that we're not a felon and declare we're sane.


Press for the offending parties to be held accountable. Prosecute that Mother.
She should spend 27 life sentences for getting her son the tools to express his mental illness.
That is a fact. She made that tragedy possible, directly.




This was a straw purchase done legally...and the mother was the first victim...and yes, the mother was directly responsible for these 27 murders...but, doesn't the ease of access have anything to do with the crime? Doesn't the culture of our gun lovin' society bear some blame? We glorify Bonnie and Clyde...Al Capone is iconic...we open carry with the right to stand our ground-at the expense of another man's life. You see, neither mental illness nor a gun independently create a mass murder...and to look at only one aspect of the equation is disingenuous...

And yes, only a craftsman with a machine shop could make a gun from metal stock...you would actually have to know something to do it...that same craftsman could probably turn an AR15 into fully auto.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 236
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/3/2015 4:44:06 AM

You claimed no one has mentioned banning or taking guns away......
but you have. Several times. Even joking about a Canadian "thing" about shooting us turistas....
because you can disarm us first.
Also when you said if "we" took guns out of the equation, on this very page.


God... I see we are back to being "stupid fvcks" again...

Your SO fvcking pathetic... you really are... just pathetic...
 sacredrain
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 237
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/3/2015 12:21:17 PM
Good post joe. Very constructive.
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 238
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/3/2015 2:00:41 PM

Gun violence is still too high in the USA, but it's been falling and coming under control. That's my most significant take away from this discussion.


that's crazy talk, but if you and others think this way *shrug, who cares, it's your country shittin' the bed and
killing innocents for no damn reason other than you can because you're armed, such moXie

bang
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 239
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/3/2015 3:25:20 PM

BB-Eyes:You see People talk about Firearms all the Time, where their knowledge comes from some anti gun group or TV/Movies...
I remember a video of a TV News report about Assault Weapons, yet when they cut to a clip shot at a Local Police Range, they showed them Shooting Full Auto M16s.... Was that the Police trying to Confuse the Issue, or the TV Station?



Flyguy51:
An M16 meets the full definition of not only so called "Assault Weapons" but Assault Rifle as well, so I don't see what you are taking issue with here.


No it does not, & a easy way to tell, is what law would someone be charged with, if they were caught with a M16, without a 1934 NFA Tax Stamp...

The term Assault Weapon is one that was invented at first by Gun Enthusiasts, to describe a Class of Firearms that had the Cosmetic Features of their Military counterparts, without the Full Auto Capabilities.... It included Battle Rifles, Assault Rifles, SMG's, Military Shotguns, and more.... It was based purely on looks, & never included any Firearm already Regulated by the 1934 NFA..... Originally, it was a clever play on the German Term, Sturmgewehr... for the STG-44....

The term Assault Weapons was co-opted by the Anti Gun People, to Demonize those Firearms, based on their cosmetics..

I wonder how many in the USA would still support Gun Control, if they knew from where these Laws evolved from?

Gun Control never has & never will affect the Rich & Powerful, they will always have ways of Circumventing those Laws...

You can trace the Modern Gun Control laws back to their Roots in Jim Crow type of laws.... The Roots of Modern Gun Control Laws, in the USA, are based on Racism & Classism...


BB-Irish:
OK...watch carefully, because this is how it is done. I was wrong! The is no complete information on the internet, that I can find, to convert an AR15 from semi to fully automatic. I'm sure those in the know can do a conversion and do conversions, but the information does exist and any easily searchable manner on the internet.


Thank You, Yes, that is the way it's done.... Do I know the difference between the FCG of a M16 & a AR15 & the way they work, yes....

When I & many other Gun Enthusiasts see someone offering something we know is or could be illegal, our first thought is it's a Trap setup by some Law Enforcement Agency...
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 240
view profile
History
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/3/2015 3:31:46 PM
People should be allowed one shot/reload rifles for hunting and protection. Guns are for killing people and possession of an assault rifle is just mental, therefor should not be allowed as mental people who would use them cannot be trusted.

Guns to fight off a gov't gone rogue wouldn't do the trick anymore anyway.
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