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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 51
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...Page 3 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)

It is amusing how liberal gungrabbers have now convinced themselves they are far smarter than our Founding Fathers George Washington, Samuel Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Hancock, James Madison, John Jay, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton, and others...to decide what is best for our country.


It is amusing how gun nuts claim that the Founding Fathers where so smart and timeless, yet forget that they where the very same people also considered people of a different color to only be 3/5ths of a person.

Unless of course those same people also agree with what the FF thought, which then is rather telling.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 52
view profile
History
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 1:44:05 PM
"But if for instance Norway had 5 incidents, and in each 75 people were killed, then that is a total of 375 people.

If the USA had 20 incidents in which 4 people were killed in each incident, then that would be 80 people.

So I could conclude the USA had 4 TIMES as many incidents as Norway."

This is an example where statistics seem to be arbitrary. The population of the US is roughly 320 million whereas the population of Norway is roughly 5 million. As per the quote, while the US had 4 times as many INCIDENTS, there were more people killed, so which statistic is more important? Would it not be more people killed versus the number of incidents and what is the relevance of this to a discussion about gun control laws?

As a side note I was waiting to see when the name calling would start, didn't take too many pages. This is one reason why I seldom post in this section, I think it denigrates credibility no matter how sound or logical someone's thoughts are, it's schoolyard behavior IMO and immature.

I just find the initial premise flawed that there is a connection between higher expectations, availability of guns and mass murder. I am surprised that no one so far has laid any blame on the media and entertainment. Haven't they been accused of "glamorizing" killing? Don't the people who allege to seek fame by killing people know they will attract significant media attention? There are so many factors and not one clear logical direct connection to the basic premise put forth in this article. Also, quite often, the perpetrator either commits suicide or is killed by law enforcement shortly after the incident so unless they've left some type of manifesto or other statement, no one can say for sure WHY they did what they did.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 53
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 1:50:34 PM

I think we have too much violence in the USA, but other than vote, what should I do about it? I could move, but there are other systems with even worst problems.


There are lots of Countries with much stricter Gun Laws, that have higher Homicide & Suicide rates, than the USA has..

The most dangerous thing about Humans, is Their Free Will.... They can choose to do Good or Evil... Laws can't change that....
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 54
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 2:22:51 PM

You seem to be under the illusion I care enough to look for it if it exists.

Well... if you don't think it is worth confirming... then why do you feel it is worth questioning... based on mere speculation of what could be wrong... while making judgements like ""more likely 90 people killed"... If you don't actually have a reason to believe it's "more likely"... how is a drawing conclusions based on speculation... that you don't care to support... helpful to the question at all...?

If it's available, then provide a link.

If you had just asked for some help... so you could draw a conclusion... that wasn't based on speculation... I would have been more than willing to do so...

The original article... can't be linked to yet... it has been presented at the Annual ASA... but the "journal" edition isn't yet out...

However... the links for the FBI and NYC studies are... interestingly enough... found at the FBI and NYC websites...

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/counterterrorism/ActiveShooter2012Edition.pdf

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/september/fbi-releases-study-on-active-shooter-incidents/pdfs/a-study-of-active-shooter-incidents-in-the-u.s.-between-2000-and-2013

I think we have too much violence in the USA, but other than vote, what should I do about it?

I'm wondering... if this isn't maybe... helping the researcher... to make his point...

Just maybe...

what is the relevance of this to a discussion about gun control laws?

Perhaps because... the easy and ready availability of guns... is ONE of the reason he gave... for why the other problems were so very deadly... maybe... do you think...?

I just find the initial premise flawed that there is a connection between higher expectations, availability of guns and mass murder.

Ok... that is fair... as far as it goes... Now... why is it flawed... and how...? Perhaps you could be specific... so others can understand your reasoning...

I am surprised that no one so far has laid any blame on the media and entertainment. Haven't they been accused of "glamorizing" killing?

Who pays the media's... and the advertiser's... bills... that they cater to this kind of "interest"... Just exactly whose interests are they responding to...? And who is it that tells them... "We want more"... both by word and pocketbook...?

Seems to me... that would be the consumers of their media... and their advertised products...

So then... who does the problem actually belong to... the people who ask... or the people who provide... in a place like America...?

They can choose to do Good or Evil... Laws can't change that....

Nice trite little homily there... except that... laws CAN make it more difficult... for the ones who choose to "do evil"... to actually "pull it off"...

Or are you suggesting... we shouldn't even try... to make it harder for evil to be done...?
 sacredrain
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 55
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 2:29:42 PM

I just find the initial premise flawed that there is a connection between higher expectations, availability of guns and mass murder. I am surprised that no one so far has laid any blame on the media and entertainment. Haven't they been accused of "glamorizing" killing? Don't the people who allege to seek fame by killing people know they will attract significant media attention? There are so many factors and not one clear logical direct connection to the basic premise put forth in this article. Also, quite often, the perpetrator either commits suicide or is killed by law enforcement shortly after the incident so unless they've left some type of manifesto or other statement, no one can say for sure WHY they did what they did.


Good point.

There are often many factors that lead to these tragic mass murders. Often the shooter is angry, depressed, medicated, mentally ill, bigoted against one group or another, and yes most definitely some are just lonely people seeking infamy. None of those factors, with the exception of specific protected class involvement makes for good lead stories on the nightly news. If the motives of the perpetrator do not line up with the appropriate divisive political agenda, they're minimized and the tools used to commit the shooting becomes the focus...and again it's for political reasons. The only time people seem interested in banning a tool used to commit a murder is when it's a gun. We're told 19 muslims used box cutters to commit crimes that resulted in the deaths of 2,977 innocent people in the greatest mass murder in US history, yet I haven't seen the outcry for legislation to require registration of razor blade.
 8inscrew
Joined: 11/17/2014
Msg: 56
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 2:31:30 PM
Joe.... I was responding to half's claims about going to the hospital and nutters with knives not getting very far.
911 was carried out with box cutters. 3000 people died. Is that not "very far" by your definition?


For that you call me a fvcking idiot?

Good form.


Most of the gun grabbers are the queen's subjects. Not citizens.
That explains a lot.

I think that many are afraid of us.
They might be concerned if they had something we wanted..... we could just take it.

Why are "you people" so up in arms about our arms?
Serious question.

Dee hit it on the head.
Go to Mexico and get shaken down by a deuce and a half filled with kids carrying ak47s.
The policia federal have a lot room to bully, with an unarmed citizenry.


Again, if you don't like our rights and laws..... stay out.

Or just keep competing for "biggest cry sack of the internet" award.
joe and hfx are running their necks, neck and neck.
Giblet running- level expert.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 57
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 2:34:17 PM

However... the links for the FBI and NYC studies are... interestingly enough... found at the FBI and NYC websites...


You were talking about the USA compared to the rest of the world.

The data you are providing is USA only.

However:

Looking at intentional homicide, the USA is ranked 112 out of 218 nations. Not as dramatic a headline, and nothing to be proud of, but more representative. And it must mean lack of guns is no deterrent to murder.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

How do you explain that the homicide rate is much greater in 111 other countries while also saying USA is number 1 in larger incident gun killings?
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 58
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 3:08:58 PM

Joe.... I was responding to half's claims about going to the hospital and nutters with knives not getting very far.
911 was carried out with box cutters. 3000 people died. Is that not "very far" by your definition?


For that you call me a fvcking idiot?

Yes... because it is idiotic... It is an irrational and illogical deflection... from the question... The US doesn't have an ongoing... and worsening problem with... people "hijacking planes with box cutters and flying them into buildings"... The US doesn't have an ongoing... and worsening problem with... people commiting mass murders with box cutters generally either...

But... I'll bet if you tried to sneak a box cutter onto the plane... you would find out... just how "restricted" it is...

Good form.

Well then... don't try to pass off ridiculous arguments... as if they were wise, pithy and on the point...

You were talking about the USA compared to the rest of the world.

The data you are providing is USA only.

I will point out... that you are treading very close... to making a completely ridiculous "non-point"... and I am being kind with the suggestion that you are "treading close"...

I'm not even going to tell you why that is so... not just yet... First I am going to suggest... that you go back and re-read my critique of your argument... in post 48... and give you the chance to correct your mistake... that same mistake you made before...

How do you explain that the homicide rate is much greater in 111 other countries while also saying USA is number 1 in larger incident gun killings?

I don't need to explain that... because it is irrelevant... and for very obvious reasons... the most obvious... is you are asking a different question... than the one posed...

It is like asking... "Well, if the sky is supposed to look blue, then how come it isn't blue when it rains or at night?"...
 8inscrew
Joined: 11/17/2014
Msg: 59
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 3:09:24 PM
Missed the edit, Dragon... earlier you mentioned armor piercing and explosive rounds.
Both are legal here. As are tracers..... but check your local listing.
CA has pretty strict laws compared.

5.56x45 will not penetrate 1/4 inch steel. M4
7.62x54 will. AK


MT has one of the highest % of gun ownership, around 60%......
and one of the lowest murder %.... 2.1 per 100k

Stats do not show the whole picture.

Also no registration or permit required to buy, here.
All legal gun sales in the US are supposed to do atf background check......
except the gun show/collector loophole, as Irish mentioned.


Joe.... it is not possible to have a rational discussion with you.
He asked... I provided... you hate.
End of story.

Bully folks on the internet if it makes you feel better about yourself.
Cheaper than therapy.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 60
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 3:13:47 PM

I don't need to explain that... because it is irrelevant... and for very obvious reasons... the most obvious... is you are asking a different question... than the one posed...

It is like asking... "Well, if the sky is supposed to look blue, then how come it isn't blue when it rains or at night?"... This allows you to quote a previous post.


So homicide by any means is irrelevant? (This included gun deaths)

This is like when your mother asks you, did you hit your brother?

No, absolutely not!

Well, did you kick him?

Now that is a different question.
 congupnaroad
Joined: 7/22/2015
Msg: 61
view profile
History
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 3:20:10 PM

Don't you think it may be time for a change...?


Yep, but it most likely will never happen because the NRA is just way too powerful.

The US President in the wake of mass shootings has often referred to how Australia. reformed our gun laws. All the Australian Govt. did was ban the private ownership of semi-automatic firearms, which more often than not are the preferred weapon of mass shooters. That happened way back in 1996 after the Port Arthur massacre.


I have read NRA articles in response to the US President referring to the Australian experience and the NRA make it sound like they banned ALL private ownership of firearms in Australia , which is a pure lie. But many Americans read that and think if their leader mentions "gun reform" then they assume the US Govt. wants to ban private ownership of all guns in the US.

I'm sure there are US politicians that want to ban all private ownership of firearms, but that will never happen. But it would be possible to ban firearms that are specifically designed to kill a lot of people in a short time frame from being privately owned.

I know some of you will claim that people will just acquire those firearms illegally. That might be true, however it would be a more difficult task than getting them legally as it is now.

I understand that gun laws vary from state to state across the US, however I can't find any that have a cooling off period, like they do in Australia. Which means that if you wish to buy a gun, you pay for it and cannot collect it until 28 days later.

Most mass shootings are impulse crimes, therefore if the US introduced a 28 day cooling off period, some mass shootings may never happen.

I'm sure the 2nd amendment does not preclude such a simple measure.

I also understand that talking to some Americans about gun reform is a complete waste of time. I once had an American tell me "You can't fvck with the 2nd Amendment!".

Well yes you can!, because it is an amendment! Americans that think like that don 't need guns, they need a Thesaurus !
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 62
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 3:31:58 PM

except the gun show loophole, as Irish mentioned.


There is no Gun Show Loophole.... All sales, no matter where they take place, between a Federally Licensed FFL Dealer have to go through a NICS check.... What some call a Gun Show Loophole, are, Private Party Sales, that are allowed in Some States.... All PPTs (Private Party Transfers) in California, most go through a FFL & the State sets the amount a FFL can charge for completing a PPT... Most FFL's hate PPTs, because they think they're not making enough money for the time expended...

When People say they want to close the Gun Show Loophole, what they're really saying, is...
Bob shouldn't be able to sell his friend Joe a firearm, without going through a FFL......

What would most People say, if they were told, they couldn't sell a personal item, unless they went through a Federally Licensed Dealer of those items? You can't have a Garage Sale, nor sell something on Craigslist... Shut eBay down right now.... No more privately selling anything You Own....

That's what they're Really Saying..



I understand that gun laws vary from state to state across the US, however I can't find any that have a cooling off period, like they do in Australia.


Well Rob, once again You show Your ignorance..... California has a 10 day wait... Actually, it's a 240 hour wait, You can't pickup Your firearm, till that time has passed & Your background check comes back as clean......

But what difference does a Cooling Off Period make, when the Person already owns a firearm of that Type? Like I can't use a Glock I already own, I have to wait for this special new Glock, to commit that Crime....

Non Gun Owners could be all for a Cooling Off Period, till they feel a need for a firearm, for personal protection.... Then they're like, "what do You mean I have to wait, I need a Gun now"!
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 63
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 3:34:51 PM

So homicide by any means is irrelevant? (This included gun deaths)

This is like when your mother asks you, did you hit your brother?

No, absolutely not!

Well, did you kick him?

Now that is a different question.

And it is a different question... even in that limited... and hardly applicable... scenario...

In part... because the gun death rates... and even gun homicide rates... exhibit an entirely different picture... where pretty much the only countries... in the world... which can top the US... are all one or more of... unstable/notoriously corrupt/have ongoing internal armed conflicts (guerrilla and drug cartel)... where the laws... including their often stricter gun laws... are norotiously under-enforced... if they are enforced at all...

And... also in part... because most of the countries with higher homicide (all cause) rates... also either fall into that category above... or are so small that even a few... sometimes even 1... murder produces a deceptively high rate...
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 64
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 3:47:02 PM

Joe.... it is not possible to have a rational discussion with you.
He asked... I provided... you hate.

So you are saying... it is rational... to say that the one-time 9/11 attack is equivalent to... the regular mass shootings that occur in the US... simply because lots of people died...

And that claiming "why don't we just ban box cutters?" in response to a non-recurring problem... with a specific solution (don't let box cutters on the plane)... which has been implemented... as a rebuttal for a similar solution... for a long-term... relatively frequent... and positively frequent compared to box cutter attacks... problem... is also a "rational response"...?

And that it is "hate" to point out... that such a claims... are anything but rational...?
 8inscrew
Joined: 11/17/2014
Msg: 65
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 4:04:36 PM
Alright joe..... not going to the trouble of finding exact quotes... they are available by reading back.

Half said: A nutbar with a knife is not going to get very far in a crowded theater or church.
A claim I took exception with.

I said: the nutbars on 911 did.
To provide evidence his claim was incorrect.

You said: I'm a fvcking idiot.
To insult, put down, act superior ..... hate.


Do you not see the battle for the war?
Or.. the forest for the trees...



Blue eyes, I understand the "loophole".
You expressed the concept correctly......
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 66
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 4:05:00 PM
Hey Rob, how about telling us Your views on Murdering Cats, again.....

That was a Hoot........
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 67
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 4:10:16 PM
MSG 53

There are lots of Countries with much stricter Gun Laws, that have higher Homicide & Suicide rates, than the USA has..


such as?




The most dangerous thing about Humans, is Their Free Will.... They can choose to do Good or Evil... Laws can't change that....


but restricting guns from the crazy ones is a good start.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 68
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 4:24:45 PM
Obviously if you severely restrict guns in country A, while having guns freely available in country B, then death by gun will be very low in country A and higher in country B.

People will still kill each other, they will use a different method. So how will the homicide rate change? Or will it?

It would be interesting to take all gun related homicide out of the data, would the USA still have an unusually high rate of murder amongst other developed countries? I think the USA is just a little more prone to individual acts of violence than other countries. No doubt part of that is because the USA is the most individualist country in the world, and we put a lot of competitive pressure on people to succeed.

But what if those in the USA accept a higher rate of homicide by gun as an acceptable tradeoff for the second 2nd amendment? Isn't it our right to decide that?
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 69
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 4:31:22 PM

till that time has passed & Your background check comes back as clean......

Does that background check also include... traffic offenses...? And can the sale be denied... for traffic offenses...? Or can a "serial law breaker" still get cleared... as "law abiding"...

But what difference does a Cooling Off Period make, when the Person already owns a firearm of that Type? Like I can't use a Glock I already own, I have to wait for this special new Glock, to commit that Crime....

But I thought "law abiding" gun owners didn't do that kind of thing...
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 70
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 4:34:49 PM

Obviously if you severely restrict guns in country A, while having guns freely available in country B, then death by gun will be very low in country A and higher in country B.


Now you are getting it.



People will still kill each other, they will use a different method. So how will the homicide rate change? Or will it?


The homicide rate will go down, but the biggest drop will be in the suicide rate.

Suicide Rates and State Laws Regulating Access and Exposure to Handguns
Michael D. Anestis, PhD, and Joye C. Anestis, PhD
Accepted on: Apr 29, 2015

Objectives. Using previous research, we examined the impact of 4 handgun laws (waiting periods, universal background checks, gun locks, and open carrying regulations) on suicide rates.

Methods. We used publicly available databases to collect information on statewide laws, suicide rates, and demographic characteristics for 2013.

Results. Each law was associated with significantly lower firearm suicide rates and the proportion of suicides resulting from firearms. In addition, each law, except for that which required a waiting period, was associated with a lower overall suicide rate. Follow-up analyses showed a significant indirect effect on overall suicide rates through the proportion of suicides by firearms, indicating that the reduced overall suicide rate was attributable to fewer suicide attempts, fewer handguns in the home, suicide attempts using less lethal means, or a combination of these factors. States that implemented any of these laws saw a decreased suicide rate in subsequent years, whereas the only state that repealed 1 of these laws saw an increased suicide rate.

Conclusions. Our results were supportive of a potentially vital role in suicide prevention for state legislation that limits access and exposure to handguns. (Am J Public Health. Published online ahead of print August 13, 2015: e1–e10. doi:10.2105/AJPH.2015.302753)


http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302753


Though keep in mind, because these people have exited the womb we should not care about them, so meh I guess.




It would be interesting to take all gun related homicide out of the data, would the USA still have an unusually high rate of murder amongst other developed countries?



It is ~33,000 per year.

Though keep in mind that is just people killed, there are ~132,000 shot per year.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 71
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 4:42:56 PM

posted by dragonbytes:
Obviously if you severely restrict guns in country A, while having guns freely available in country B, then death by gun will be very low in country A and higher in country B.

People will still kill each other, they will use a different method. So how will the homicide rate change? Or will it?

It would be interesting to take all gun related homicide out of the data, would the USA still have an unusually high rate of murder amongst other developed countries? I think the USA is just a little more prone to individual acts of violence than other countries. No doubt part of that is because the USA is the most individualist country in the world, and we put a lot of competitive pressure on people to succeed.

But what if those in the USA accept a higher rate of homicide by gun as an acceptable tradeoff for the second 2nd amendment? Isn't it our right to decide that?


Compare the Homicide Rate in London vs. NYC in 1954..... Compare it to the Gun Control Laws in those 2 Cities at that time...... The USA has always had a higher violent crime rate, compared to other 1st World countries, & probably always will......


but the biggest drop will be in the suicide rate.


Well Franky, lets talk the Suicide Rate between the USA & Japan, who has had strong weapon control laws, going back to the Days of the Samurai..

On the Subject of Suicide, who owns Your Body, You or the State?
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 72
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 5:05:39 PM

Results. Each law was associated with significantly lower firearm suicide rates and the proportion of resulting from firearms.


So do you support the right of the state to restrict / prevent suicide? I thought you supported a right to die law?
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 73
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 5:09:24 PM

Well Franky, lets talk the Suicide Rate between the USA & Japan, who has had strong weapon control laws, going back to the Days of the Samurai..


I would talk about it, but based on your history so far in this thread, it would just be a waste of time to ask you to provide some reference for your statement.





On the Subject of Suicide, who owns Your Body, You or the State?


You, do.

On the same subject, having things that can be easily used to kill yourself with, good or bad?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So do you support the right of the state to restrict / prevent suicide? I thought you supported a right to die law?


Never said anything about restricting people's right to die, just mentioned that regulating guns would go a long way to preventing them.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 74
view profile
History
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 5:40:14 PM

Why would the USA take on the problem from a medical standpoint and provide a better level of care for those in need and save billions of tax dollars, when a small group of people really really need that money?

Sad when things so cynical ring so true.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 75
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 6:30:33 PM

There is no Gun Show Loophole.... All sales, no matter where they take place, between a Federally Licensed FFL Dealer have to go through a NICS check


Really? No gun show/private party/brady loophole? I beg to differ. There are something like 33 states that require no background check or reporting of any kind between in gun sales between private parties. So Blue, who has 50 or 100 "personal" weapons to sell, goes to a gun show and sets up a booth with a sign that says private sale...no background check no reporting.


Bob shouldn't be able to sell his friend Joe a firearm, without going through a FFL.


Right, Bob who just met his friend Joe at the gun show, or just met on-line at Craig's List, should just be able to sell what ever weapon he wishes out of his 50-100 "personal" gun collection to his new best friend without going through an FFL....wink wink...


What would most People say, if they were told, they couldn't sell a personal item


Yea, how dare the FED tell me I can't sell my left over oxycontin on line to my new best friend....what a disingenuous argument....comparing selling an old couch in a yard sale to selling guns at a gun show.

Nearly 40% of all gun sales go unregulated through private sales.
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