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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 76
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...Page 4 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
Jim Jefferies - Gun Control - Full Length Official Clip -- From BARE Netflix Special
Jim Jefferies
Published on Jun 22, 2015

NSFW Language

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=59&v=zBOk1SnQ8uU
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 77
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 7:25:39 PM

But what if those in the USA accept a higher rate of homicide by gun as an acceptable tradeoff for the second 2nd amendment? Isn't it our right to decide that?

Do the victims... of those homicides have a say...? Is their say of equal... or greater weight than yours... given that they are the ones doing the dying...? Or do the gun owners... get to "volunteer" them...?

And what about the families and children of those victims... the ones left without fathers... husbands... children...? Do they have a say... in whether or not the gun owners get to "volunteer" them...? What kind of weight does their say carry...? I ask because... even though the lost loved ones can't really speak up... the "victims" left behind... often seem to be quite in favour... of NOT letting the gun owners "volunteer" anymore of their... or anyone else's... loved ones...

So really... who is it that gets to "volunteer" these victims...? Is it simply a majority rule kind of thing... 50%+1...? Is it whoever has the most money and success... or the most paranoia...?

How exactly... does that work out... given the victims right to remain alive... probably THE most fundamental right of them all...?

All sales, no matter where they take place, between a Federally Licensed FFL Dealer have to go through a NICS check....

Again... Does that also include traffic offenses...? Can the sale be denied for traffic offenses...? Or can "serial law breakers" get cleared... as "law abiding"...?
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 78
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 7:27:37 PM

Really? No gun show/private party/brady loophole? I beg to differ. There are something like 33 states that require no background check or reporting of any kind between in gun sales between private parties. So Blue, who has 50 or 100 "personal" weapons to sell, goes to a gun show and sets up a booth with a sign that says private sale...no background check no reporting.


I don't know how many Gun Shows you've been to, but would guess not many.... The BATFE takes a dim view of those whom try & skirt the Licensing Requirements... They regularly charge unlicensed dealers who sell a lot of firearms off the books... Of course these Busts aren't the type that makes National News Programs....



Section 923(a), Title 18, U.S.C.,provides that no person shall engage in the business of dealing in firearms until he has filed an application and received a license to do so.
Section 922(a)(1), Title 18, U.S.C., provides that it is unlawful for any person, other than a licensee, to engage in the business of dealing in firearms. Licensees generally may not conduct business away from their licensed premises. The term “dealer” is defined at 18U.S.C. § 921(a)(11)(A) to include any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail. The term “engaged in the business” as applied to a dealer in firearms means a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms. A dealer can be “engaged in the business” without taking title to the firearms that are sold. However, the term does not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms. 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(21)(C).



Nearly 40% of all gun sales go unregulated through private sales.


Just because You or the Brady Bunch says it, makes it the Gospel Truth......


comparing selling an old couch in a yard sale to selling guns at a gun show.


Cars kill more People per Year than Guns do.... I think anyone who believes in more Gun Control, like You, should have to sell any of their personal Vehicles through a Licensed Dealer.....
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 79
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 7:37:36 PM

Cars kill more People per Year than Guns do....


Which is a disingenuous argument, unless you take into account intent, the number of cars vs number of guns etc....





I think anyone who believes in more Gun Control, like You, should have to sell any of their personal Vehicles through a Licensed Dealer.....


Because yes, that totally makes sense.

The single most dangerous thing someone could own and you think regulating it is a bad idea.

Tell us more about why you think they should be able to sell Cocaine at the corner store?
 congupnaroad
Joined: 7/22/2015
Msg: 80
view profile
History
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 7:49:22 PM

Cars kill more People per Year than Guns do.... I think anyone who believes in more Gun Control, like You, should have to sell any of their personal Vehicles through a Licensed Dealer.....


Not for much longer it appears.



For the better part of a century, the machine most likely to kill an American has been the automobile.

Car crashes killed 33,561 people in 2012, the most recent year for which data is available, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Firearms killed 32,251 people in the United States in 2011, the most recent year for which the Centers for Disease Control has data.

But this year gun deaths are expected to surpass car deaths. That's according to a Center for American Progress report, which cites CDC data that shows guns will kill more Americans under 25 than cars in 2015. Already more than a quarter of the teenagers—15 years old and up—who die of injuries in the United States are killed in gun-related incidents, according to the American Academy of Paediatrics


theatlantic.com

12th January 2015.

BTW, thanks for proving my point that talking to some Americans about gun reform is a waste of time!
 sacredrain
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 81
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 8:48:07 PM

BTW, thanks for proving my point that talking to some Americans about gun reform is a waste of time!


Reform is a fun word activists use when they want to infringe upon someone else's rights without admitting it. There's already a process in place to "reform" the nation's gun laws...strike down the 2nd Amendment. The 21st struck down the 18th Amendment because Americans at large supported a repeal of prohibition, so it's clearly possible. The 2nd could also be stricken if enough Americans supported the idea, but they don't and everyone knows it, so instead activists circumvent it.

The ridiculous and unConstitutional measures Chicago has taken to suppress legal gun ownership makes it clear for all to see that draconian gun laws do not stop homicides.


Chicago's homicide toll stood at 203 as of June 28, up from 171 at the same time last year, according to police stats. The city is still well below pace of 2012, when Chicago recorded more than 500 murders for the entire year.
 8inscrew
Joined: 11/17/2014
Msg: 82
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 8:57:51 PM
Well played Irish. You just told all these nutters how "someone" wink wink, does it in NH. Or CT.
Where ever you are.
Also a great point..... I agree with you.
Fringe sales are illegal sales. Buzzed driving is drunk driving.
Like Homer Simpson.... doh

I also agree with Blue, the feds don't have any business in what I pass on to my children, other family, or friends.
Unless it's syphilis or weapons of mass destruction or something.
Replace fire arm with inkpen, or hammer...... they have no business.

Maybe that's what the two sides differ on.
Is a fire arm a weapon of mass destruction?

The world collaborated. Defined these things.
A firearm is not even a munition.
Merriam Webster would be of more help than any rational argument....


Are gun show sales really that lax?
No.
Is there a market/demand for illegal fire arms?
Yes.
Any where in the world?
Yes.
Do people buy and sell guns on Craigslist?
Yes. Against the law and CL tos.


Is there a UK Craigslist?
Yes.
Should we ban Craigslist?
dumdumdum
Are there UK gun makers?
Yes. Some of the finest in the world.
Should we ban UK?
dumdumdum


This "logic" is about as transparent as the stats in the op.
Obviously slanted.

Hell, we can't even coax joe into being civil.
Some things are apparent and can't be changed.


If I register a business name with the state, and begin a collection of investments..... as a collector.....
operating as a type s or other... will "they"raid my place and kill my wife and children..... because my neighbor is
on the books making threats.... and "they"can't read a map?

I collect many things.
Coins, hammers, tailored shirts, old glass vessels, railroad junk, motorcycles, interesting oddities, chrome, scars, memories....
Guns are not on the list because our government has very little accountability.
rip ruby ridge.
Oops.... does that make a christian right wing conservative or a nashville country music executive?
No.






Igor.... is pen violence a thing now too?
How about boat violence?
Pvssy violence?
Humor violence?

Someone should go get rockin trucker.
Joe just proved no response IS a response.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 83
view profile
History
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 8:59:29 PM
It continues to be true that those who most adamantly oppose gun control or responsibility laws, fail to even begin to think about alternate ways to deal with the problems of gun violence in any way.

And no, "Everyone else should get a gun" doesn't count as "proposing a solution," since the problem isn't coming from the people who do not have guns.
 sacredrain
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 84
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 9:13:36 PM
A gun is a tool. Used responsibly it is absolutely harmless without intent. The problem is violence...not guns. The reason national media and activists sensationalize violence where guns are involved is to further political agendas.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 85
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 9:14:56 PM

Reform is a fun word activists use when they want to infringe upon someone else's rights without admitting it. There's already a process in place to "reform" the nation's gun laws...strike down the 2nd Amendment.

But there are ALL kinds of Constitutional laws restricting knives and swords... all traditional self-defence weapons... actually as commonly... if not more commonly... carried for "daily self-defense"... than firearms... when the Constitution was written... It would be horrendously ludicruous to assert... they weren't included in the Framers intent...

They are also traditional... and current... militia weapons (not so much swords... if you don't count ceremonies... and the various Gurkha units... but they aren't American... if that actually matters)... and generally speaking... the ones used for "militia" purposes... are among the ones that are restricted...

And yet there are ALL kinds of laws... restricting what you can carry or even own (some types of "scary looking" knives for instance... usually the ones most effective as self-defence weapons... and swords just about anywhere)... how you can carry it (as in never concealed... unless it is too small to be of any real danger to an assailant)... copious... copious laws... regulations... and restrictions... VASTLY more than for firearms...

And almost none of them have been overturned on 2nd Amendment grounds... How is the 2nd Amendment "different" for knives/swords and guns... and where is that "difference" found in the Constitution... or the Framers intent...?
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 86
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 9:19:37 PM
We know what the framers intent was; it's written right in the damn thing - for a "well regulated militia." Funny how all the gun nuts remember the "shall not be infringed" but can't seem to remember that part. They seem to think that well regulated militia means carrying a gun into Walmart.
 8inscrew
Joined: 11/17/2014
Msg: 87
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 9:39:25 PM
....... Americans are all members of the malicious.
Just like the conscription other nationalities have.
Ours happens to be voluntary. Proud. Pretty effin capable too....

But you as a Canadian "know" what the founders of My country... intend?


Do you have a more stable platform from which to debate?
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 88
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 9:47:31 PM
It's pretty damn clear. They made it so.

And don't come to a Canadian website if you don't want to hear from Canadians.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 89
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 9:59:52 PM
How do You Canadians feel about the 20 years & Billions of Dollars wasted on Your Long Gun Registry?

They spent all that Money & Political Energy on a Feel Good Measure that didn't do any good or change anything.....
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 90
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 10:04:35 PM

How do You Canadians feel about the 20 years & Billions of Dollars wasted on Your Long Gun Registry?


Much better knowing that no one died because of it or the lack there of.
 8inscrew
Joined: 11/17/2014
Msg: 91
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 10:16:01 PM
I like Canada. Canadians. Canadian's opinions.
Good beer, good pot, kindness, my dollar goes aboat 35 cents firther......
they still have trees. Grow Lotsa beer.
Calgary cowgirls.
Good actual literature. The golden Spruce is beautiful and haunting.
Rush. Skating away on the thin ice of a new day....
Progressive political stance..
Crazy Calgary cowgirls.
Your opinions are just as valid as anyone's.


Do Canadian hockey players actually fight?
Can you consent to combat in Canada?



Pof Canadian forum users are definitely the most adventurist I have "met"out of other Canadians...
but I cannot say they are cowards...... they are just super polite. Like the swiss.
Yet less affluent in matters of importance.

I view their rule breaking as a rebellion from "the queen", and welcome it.
Queen subjects are so very different than citizens.
Look at robbie down under.
He is a queen subject who advertises his .... uh..... serial tendencies on a dating website.

Just like the joe and hfx and half..... you advertise for Canada.
Good hobe so far.



......
 8inscrew
Joined: 11/17/2014
Msg: 92
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 10:16:10 PM
I like Canada. Say that part again.

I fat fingered the touch screen again and made a double post.

where is skoocharelis?

oh... he's a Coloradan, maybe he spaced it.....

 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 93
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/29/2015 11:21:31 PM


How do You Canadians feel about the 20 years & Billions of Dollars wasted on Your Long Gun Registry?

Much better knowing that no one died because of it or the lack there of.

I have to agree with that... Better to have tried it... and found it unnecessary... than to not have... and found it necessary...

The class of guns... removed from the registry... were never really the biggest issue anyway... All of the weapons typically used in mass shootings... were and are still... prohibited or highly restricted... The inclusion of the registry for non-restricted hunting rifles... was always more of an "extra measure" anyway... It was highly debatable when it was put in... and it is still highly debatable that it had no impact... but it wasn't enough to justify it...

But then... that is just being sensible about it... try the most sensible and reasonable solutions you think it may take... keep what works... repeal the rest... But then... that's usually the way solutions work...

Queen subjects are so very different than citizens.

Amazing how us "subject" people... can do... with our "tyrannical" monarch and all... what you guys claim... can't be managed in America... with your Republic of the People...

You know how so many Americans think you can't have handguns in Canada... because we won't let THEM bring THEIRS in...? It's not about protecting us from the handgun... it's about protecting us from YOU...

The last thing we want... is to see some Stampede revelers... killed for speaking to tourists... to the Stampede... by some big "tough" American cop... who felt "so threatened"... and "so frightened"... and "so angry"... about "not being able to protect himself"... from being spoken to...

Of course... there is still the possibility... of us using ours on you... everyone familiar with the "American tourist" syndrome... knows it often doesn't take the locals long... to start thinking about... where might be a good place to hide bodies...

Of course... we would have to go all the way home to get the gun... and by the time we got there... we would probably figure it was a good time... to open a beer... and just let the tourist be somebody else's problem for a bit... You know... "share the wealth"... "redistribution" and all...
 8inscrew
Joined: 11/17/2014
Msg: 94
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/30/2015 1:00:00 AM
You've mistaken can't for won't.....

Also conveniently abandoned your love of queen. I never said she is a tyranny force to be dealt with.
In your case reconned with.

Tyrannical monarch?
She's probably really nice joe. Rude for you to call her names.

Decidedly uncanadian.
Not to mention treasonous in your particular circumstance.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 95
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/30/2015 3:39:23 AM

Do the victims... of those homicides have a say...? Is their say of equal... or greater weight than yours... given that they are the ones doing the dying...? Or do the gun owners... get to "volunteer" them...?

And what about the families and children of those victims... the ones left without fathers... husbands... children...? Do they have a say... in whether or not the gun owners get to "volunteer" them...? What kind of weight does their say carry...? I ask because... even though the lost loved ones can't really speak up... the "victims" left behind... often seem to be quite in favour... of NOT letting the gun owners "volunteer" anymore of their... or anyone else's... loved ones...

So really... who is it that gets to "volunteer" these victims...? Is it simply a majority rule kind of thing... 50%+1...? Is it whoever has the most money and success... or the most paranoia...?


Of course, not every that dies is a victim.

But for those that are a victim, the police get involved, most criminals are sooner or later caught, if not for that crime then some other, then the courts and a jury of their peers sends them to prison.

If it's an accident, there are civil courts to sue in.

Everyone one gets to vote on how tough they want gun laws to be. No one gets a special vote because they are or know a victim. If enough people want tougher gun laws passed, 100% for sure congress will do it. Just not enough people in the USA want tougher gun laws.

Now if we let Canadians vote in our election, no doubt we would get a different set of laws.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 96
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/30/2015 6:09:11 AM

Cars kill more People per Year than Guns do.... I think anyone who believes in more Gun Control, like You, should have to sell any of their personal Vehicles through a Licensed Dealer....


Oh boy...you got me there with that one! YOUR analogy between private car sales and private gun sales, and how both guns and cars kill people. But, let's just examine the differences between YOUR analogy between cars and gun private sales, and please remember it was you who brought up this analogy before YOU attempt to remind us that car ownership is a privilege and gun ownership is a right.

When BillyBob sells his 1985 Mustang to Jimmy Ray he writes out a bill of sale and fills in Jimmy Ray's info on the back of the title (at least that's how we do it in Connecticut.) Jimmy Ray, because he didn't buy that 85 "Stang to sit in his yard, brings the title to the Motor Vehicle Department to register the vehicle, pay his fee, and obtain a new title. But, in Connecticut, he must have insurance on that car to register it-since its' such a dangerous machine, capable of causing injury, death, or other harm. And to obtain that insurance he must have a license, for which he must PROVE, he knows all the driving laws, he must also PROVE he knows all the safe ways to use that vehicle. If Jimmy Ray has multiple driving offenses he may not be able to obtain insurance which means he can't register the car, which means he can't drive the car on any public road. Liability insurance is required in all states and in DC except the state of New Hampshire.

But, when BillyBob, in Arkansas, sells his 2000 glock to Jimmy Ray, money is exchanged and it's a done deal. It doesn't matter if Jimmy Ray has multiple felony convictions that BillyBob doesn't know about, doesn't want to know about, and doesn't check.

Yes, cars do kill people-though rarely intentionally. That is why liability insurance is required to drive a car in 49 states including DC.
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 97
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/30/2015 6:11:03 AM
"One failed attempt at a shoe bomb, and we all have to take off our shoes at the airport.

31 school shootings since Columbine and no change in regulations of guns."


J. Oliver.
 sacredrain
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 98
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/30/2015 8:54:47 AM
Sucks when bad people kill others. It really sucks, but I didn't have anything to do with it. Don't take my rights away because someone with bad intentions chose a gun as a weapon rather than box cutters, fertilizer, or a Chevy.

If you don't want to exercise your own 2nd Amendment rights...awesome, then don't buy a gun, but leave me and my rights alone.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 99
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/30/2015 10:52:07 AM

Don't take my rights away because someone with bad intentions chose a gun as a weapon rather than box cutters, fertilizer, or a Chevy.

If you don't want to exercise your own 2nd Amendment rights...awesome, then don't buy a gun, but leave me and my rights alone.

No one has said anything... about "taking your rights away"... THAT is your own irrationally paranoid interpretation... and it IS irrationally paranoid... it is ALWAYS irrationally paranoid to fear what doesn't exist... it is called "delusional"... and you prove it every time... you make these kind of irrationally paranoid claims... about other peoples' intentions... AND I think we all agree that people with mental conditions which leave them irrationally incapable of distinguishing their fantasies and paranoid delusions... from reality... can be and should be denied access to firearms... for mental health reasons... and public safety...

Conservatives are ALWAYS going on about... how "crazy people" shouldn't have guns... and irrational paranoia of what doesn't exist... is decidedly "crazy"...

So you see... we just want to lessen the ability of "crazy people"... to inflict harm... and bring disrepute to sane people's right to "bear arms"...
 BialaPolska
Joined: 5/20/2015
Msg: 100
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/30/2015 12:13:33 PM
^ Nice post Sunny. I agree. I would like to see well armed women. There is a "war" upon them you know.
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