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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 151
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...Page 7 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
"Are you suggesting that the answer... is to simply let bodies pile up... year after year... while we wait for a solution... that will obviously take generations to complete... and do nothing else in the mean time... even solutions which appear to have short term benefit...?"

What solution? Is there any consensus among those who can actually facilitate it? I think those in power aren't waiting, necessarily, but they have to be convinced that whatever action is taken will BE a solution at all.

It seems that the more the issue is raised and bandied about, the further and further apart the factions in power are to coming up with some type of agreement/compromise that they truly feel will be effective. Throwing money at a problem, writing laws or creating programs at an issue is rarely effective, unless and until the cause or the cause of the majority of the incidents is understood.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 152
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 2:25:24 PM

What solution? Is there any consensus among those who can actually facilitate it? I think those in power aren't waiting, necessarily, but they have to be convinced that whatever action is taken will BE a solution at all.

Well... the first part of the solution... is sane and sensible gun laws... and if these "people" are waiting for evidence... it could be a solution... they only need to look at places where that has been done... and how mass shootings have "effectively disappeared" (as in... not necessarily gone forever, guaranteed, but low enough to not be a major issue)... It is the only evidence you are going to be able to get... and stating "well America is different"... doesn't "cut the mustard"... ALL countries are "different"... even when the people originate from the same places (like the US, Canada, UK and Australia)... and to refuse to even try... on that basis alone... is nothing more than ludicrously hidebound, cognitively inflexible and intellectually dishonest...
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 153
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 2:43:51 PM

It seems that the more the issue is raised and bandied about, the further and further apart the factions in power are to coming up with some type of agreement/compromise that they truly feel will be effective.

AND... the reason for that is quite clear and obvious... EVERY TIME the subject comes up... the "anti-" side starts hysterically screeching... "They want to take away ALL your guns"... "They want to make you slaves to tyranny"... "You will ALL be like hanging meat for the coyotes"...

While the "pro" side... is sick and tired of seeing their fathers/mothers, husbands/wives, sons/daughters... being slaughtered at the "alter" of "gun rights hysteria"... even though... the "pro" side still acknowledges "the right to bear arms"...

We own guns too, you know... and we aren't talking about "giving them up"... never have... but the "anti" side... stubbornly... and stupidly... refuses to acknowledge... even that simple fact...
 sacredrain
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 154
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 2:49:20 PM
...and who gets to determine what constitutes a "sane and sensible gun law"? You? The federal regime? Individual State legislatures? County Sheriffs? Mayors? City Planners? Judges?

Why would anyone assume that even if "sane and sensible gun laws"(whatever that means) were passed that somehow that would be the end of it? Quite to the contrary, I'm convinced it would just be a step on the path to the next revision of whatever constitutes a "new and improved sane and sensible gun law". It is always a slippery slope where government control freaks are involved. Just look up the constant evolution of the tortured legaleese word "firearm" for evidence of this.

Guns don't kill people joe...people do. I know it's an annoying reality...but you're not going to change it.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 155
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 3:00:08 PM

Why would anyone assume that even if "sane and sensible gun laws"(whatever that means) were passed that somehow that would be the end of it? Quite to the contrary, I'm convinced it would just be a step on the path to the next revision of whatever constitutes a "new and improved sane and sensible gun law". It is always a slippery slope where government control freaks are involved. Just look up the constant evolution of the tortured legaleese word "firearm" for evidence of this.

Guns don't kill people joe...people do. I know it's an annoying reality...but you're not going to change it.

And... the emotionally unstable paranoia and hysterical screeching continues...

It is just as I pointed out... and it doesn't change...

And sacredrain STILL hasn't been able to support... his claimed desire for "intelligent discussion"... or any of his other claims...
 congupnaroad
Joined: 7/22/2015
Msg: 156
view profile
History
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 4:15:47 PM

Guns don't kill people joe...people do. I know it's an annoying reality...but you're not going to change it


And the more people that have guns means the more people get killed by guns.

But of course that wouldn't explain why the US has the highest per capita gun death in the so called "advanced world" now would it? ( yeah right!).

If you have a society that encourages gun ownership (the US) and guns are readily available then you have a society where troubled individuals will always think that the answer to their grievances is gun violence.

Doesn't that reality annoy you? Or do you just prefer to wheel out the 2nd amendment BS?

How come the Republican dominated congress blocks funding for research into gun violence?

How come the Republican dominated congress blocked legislation for universal background checks for any gun purchase in the US?

Are you at all aware that the 2nd amendment was written so that citizens could form a militia to try and overthrow a tyrannical Govt.?

Do you think that in the 21st Century a group of citizens could amass enough weaponry to defeat the US military?

Why do think a US citizen needs to own an assault rifle? Which surprise! surprise! are more often than not the weapon of choice for mass shooters because that is what assault rifles are designed for.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 157
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 4:15:58 PM

I'm exercising my 1st Amendment right to free speech so that I may talk about leaving other people's rights alone. Frustrating ain't it?


For a second time I ask: "Mr.Sacredain do you believe your 1st amendment rights allow you to say what ever you want to anyone you want any time you want?


Doesn't it just~ 1st amendment translates into~ being able to say anything to anyone


Really? The 1st amendment means being able to say anything to anyone? Are you sure?
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 158
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 4:41:27 PM

sacredrain: Guns don't kill people joe...people do. I know it's an annoying reality...but you're not going to change it.



Let us not split hairs: the purpose of a firearm is to kill—to kill at a distance, to kill with speed, to kill with maximum lethality. This is a weapon that has been optimized to extinguish life with the minimum amount of effort possible.

And, for whatever reason, America has embraced a social norm that explicitly legitimizes these deaths by providing an unending laundry list of excuses whenever one happens: it was the irresponsible parents, the inadequate firearm training, the bad public policy, and so on.

But it’s never the gun. And yet, somehow, the U.S. is responsible for 80% of all firearm deaths, 86% of all female firearm deaths, and 87% of all child firearm deaths in the developed world. It’s just a coincidence that we have the highest per capita gun ownership rate in the world. That’s a lot of irresponsible parents.


. . . and for those that advocate gun control doesn't work


. . the problem with this argument is that, when iterated out to its logical extreme, it necessitates having no laws at all. We would be forced to live in anarchy if the only laws on the books were ones that everybody always followed.
 sacredrain
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 159
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 4:56:15 PM

Doesn't that reality annoy you? Or do you just prefer to wheel out the 2nd amendment BS?


Nope, not at all, but then I don't consider the 2nd to be BS either.


How come the Republican dominated congress blocks funding for research into gun violence?
How come the Republican dominated congress blocked legislation for universal background checks for any gun purchase in the US?

I give up...why? I could venture some guesses, but I do not know with any certainty why any particular CONgress critter does what they do.


Are you at all aware that the 2nd amendment was written so that citizens could form a militia to try and overthrow a tyrannical Govt.?


Yep.


Do you think that in the 21st Century a group of citizens could amass enough weaponry to defeat the US military?


Yes, and fairly easily when you consider the size of the US, the numbers involved, and the difficulties presented by asymmetrical warfare on such a scale. The manpower required to put down an armed insurrection in the US is many times the US active and reserve military.


Why do think a US citizen needs to own an assault rifle? Which surprise! surprise! are more often than not the weapon of choice for mass shooters because that is what assault rifles are designed for.


Loaded question. I never said anything of the sort. The Murrah building was blown up using a fertilizer bomb...shall we ban cow crap?


For a second time I ask: "Mr.Sacredain do you believe your 1st amendment rights allow you to say what ever you want to anyone you want any time you want?


Anything? No, or at least if I did say something that was later proven to be slanderous, then I believe consequences should apply if damage can be proven by the allegedly injured party. Threats of violence and intimidation should be treated similarly when they infringe upon the rights of another or can be proven to have caused harm.


. . the problem with this argument is that, when iterated out to its logical extreme, it necessitates having no laws at all. We would be forced to live in anarchy if the only laws on the books were ones that everybody always followed.


Curious statement given that only those that respect the laws follow them anyway. I do not believe for one second that it's laws that cause my neighbors to not shoot me down. Nor do I believe that if those laws did not exist that my neighbors would suddenly turn into a pack of raving lunatics. The vast majority of people do not initiate violence against others because it is not in their basic nature to do so.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 160
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 5:29:44 PM
Banning or trying to ban guns is throwing the baby out with the bath water, it's way too extreme. The common thread in the mass killings aren't your garden variety criminals, but people with a mental illness. So even if you could prevent people with mental illness from legally purchasing guns, that doesn't mean they couldn't get their hands on a gun, just that they couldn't walk into a store and buy one.

Gun control at the point of sale is something that can be established by law, but how do you prevent or police people who can't legally own guns from getting them from those who can, either willfully or by force? Also some of the mass shooters have had undiagnosed mental illness or were not undergoing treatment. There's another situation, do you subject everyone who applies for a gun permit to pass some sort of an exam (I'm honestly not that knowledgeable which I freely admit, so maybe that's already being done).

I have no solutions or even proposed solutions myself, I do think it's a complex problem with many layers. While we may be able to "control" the original purchase of firearms, we haven't figured out how to control/regulate/police the illegal gun purchases, someone stealing a gun or a legal gun owner not keeping it stored safely to where someone who shouldn't have it is able to get access to it.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 161
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 5:48:59 PM


Me:
For a second time I ask: "Mr.Sacredain do you believe your 1st amendment rights allow you to say what ever you want to anyone you want any time you want?


Mr Sacredain:
Anything? No, or at least if I did say something that was later proven to be slanderous, then I believe consequences should apply if damage can be proven by the allegedly injured party. Threats of violence and intimidation should be treated similarly when they infringe upon the rights of another or can be proven to have caused harm.


What you're trying not to say but have anyway is that the 1st amendment right to free speech has limitations and restrictions...you can't slander anyone or threaten anyone. I might add that hate speech is not a protected 1st amendment right either.

And, if I read you right, you're fine with these limits on free speech.

Yet, your opinion is that any limit or gun control is a violation of your 2nd amendment rights...primarily because gun control will limit your ability to participate in armed insurrection among other things.

Let me anticipate your rebuttal: How will gun ownership infringe on my rights? Well, responsible safe gun ownership has never effected me one little bit. The sad facts are that many, not most, but many gun owners do not exercise responsible safe gun ownership. I am especially concerned by those states that have enacted open carry and stand your ground legislation. Some of these open carry states have no requirements to be met to engage in open carry. Meaning, to me, that someone with no gun safety training or use training is carrying an unregistered, bought in a private sale, gun in public where I may happen into....that scares the livin' craype out of me.

BTW, guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 162
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 6:00:58 PM

Doesn't it just~ 1st amendment translates into~ being able to say anything to anyone

2nd amendment translates into~ gun crazy people

If you wish to get rid of the constitutional rights of people~ you should be open about it
....
Yet still can't seem to understand the basic difference
Between openly stating something and owning it
To implying something


We all agree on that~gun control is important~ it's now more a case of

Should guns be banned:)))

See... this is more of that "crazy screeching"...

Nobody here has said such a thing... and... I've never said any such thing... In fact... and in reality... I have quite clearly stated... my belief in the "right to keep and bear arms"... or "right to bear arms"... I've clearly stated that I... and many other "pros"... own weapons... and have no interest in "giving them up"... or "banning them"...

So please... find me a... non-hysterical, non-screeching... example of me "implying" otherwise... just one... that clearly shows what you claim...

Or should we assume either... that you can't... and are just "screeching"... because you can offer nothing else... or... are a "paranoid crazy" who is probably more dangerous with a gun... than any criminal... because you are so much more unpredictable... and unstable...

Yes, and fairly easily when you consider the size of the US, the numbers involved, and the difficulties presented by asymmetrical warfare on such a scale. The manpower required to put down an armed insurrection in the US is many times the US active and reserve military.


With the "clay pigeon army" you guys could bring to bear...???


Dude... you've been spending too much time... watching "Red Dawn"...

With the vast majority of "your side" being... fat... out of shape... two-fast-steps-away-from-a-heart-attack... and hopelessly under-trained... any "army"... you delusionaly imagine "your side" could "field"... assuming they can even make it to the field... would last about 2 weeks... a month if you were lucky... but DAMN... would you guys be good... at locating c0cky snipers...

Banning or trying to ban guns is throwing the baby out with the bath water, it's way too extreme.

Why... why... why... do people think it is rational or logical... to keep saying that... when no-one is even talking about it...?
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 163
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 6:11:48 PM
"Banning or trying to ban guns is throwing the baby out with the bath water, it's way too extreme.

Why... why... why... do people think it is rational or logical... to keep saying that... when no-one is even talking about it...?"

Check page 7, from sunnydayssss post

“We all agree on that~gun control is important~ it's now more a case of

Should guns be banned:)))”
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 164
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 6:15:28 PM

Check page 7, from sunnydayssss post


Well Ms Bucs, sunny is from/in the UK, and while entitled to an opinion, may not really be versed in the American gun debate, and has little to do with what happens here in the states.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 165
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 6:21:11 PM
"Well Ms Bucs, sunny is from/in the UK, and while entitled to an opinion, may not really be versed in the American gun debate, and has little to do with what happens here in the states."

That may be, I was just responding to a post, that's all.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 166
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 6:23:36 PM
mungojoe- This is THE issue I have a hard time deciding on.
For a long time, I was very much against private gun ownership.
Then, I read a book (Up Country, by Nelson Demille) that was SO powerful, for a LONG time, I did a full turn around on the issue.
Now, with all of the mass shootings, I'm just not sure again.
It's kind of hard to shoot someone, in the heat of the moment, if you don't own a gun.
The hard question is- Can we REALLY keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them by passing stricter gun laws?
It seems to me that passing laws banning anything usually backfires and creates a greater criminal element to sell them and if they are illegal, isn't it MORE likely that criminals will still be able to get them and use them for bad reasons, while keeping them out of the hands of law abiding citizens BECAUSE they would be illegal? (look at the so called "drug" war, this has mostly led to prison over crowding and non violent drug offenders getting longer sentences than violent offenders sometimes do).
I'm just not sure right now.
I'm starting to lean towards stronger screening to get one and making it illegal to sell guns at a gun show or online without a background check.
But then, I go back to thinking that STILL might not work.
If someone wants to kill someone bad enough, won't they find a way to do it, no matter what the law says?
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 167
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 6:28:54 PM

If someone wants to kill someone bad enough, won't they find a way to do it, no matter what the law says?


Which takes care of some premeditated murders, but you still have crimes of passion and opportunity and if you remove the guns, those go way down.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 168
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 7:03:41 PM

I'm starting to lean towards stronger screening to get one and making it illegal to sell guns at a gun show or online without a background check.


The only way You buy a Firearm at a Gun Show without a background check is if someone is selling some of their Personal Firearms. I posted the regulations back a few pages. The BATFE has had a presence at most every Gun Show I've ever attended. They go after People who sell a lot of Firearms without a License. There are also State DOJ & Local Police working undercover at most Gun Shows.

As for Online Sales, those Firearms must be shipped to a Local FFL holder who completes the transaction, including a NICS background check.... There is NO Amazon of Gun Sales, that ships firearms to Your House from a online Sale.

Another way People who can't purchase a firearm legally, is they have their GF/BF buy it for them. A LEO friend told me about a Local Case, where a Felon, Drug Dealer, killed a couple of Officers. They traced His firearms, back to His GF, but the DA decided not to charge Her with the Crime.... Even though She had lied on the 4473 & made a Straw Purchase..
 congupnaroad
Joined: 7/22/2015
Msg: 169
view profile
History
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 7:08:03 PM

Loaded question. I never said anything of the sort. The Murrah building was blown up using a fertilizer bomb...shall we ban cow crap?


Obviously you have not heard of the Ammonium Nitrate Security Program in the US!

When you form your militia to defeat the US military your capacity to obtain ammonium nitrate to blow up buildings is limited . Now that's an infringement on your 2nd amendment "rights"!
 sacredrain
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 170
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 7:14:11 PM

Which takes care of some premeditated murders, but you still have crimes of passion and opportunity and if you remove the guns, those go way down.


LOL What? You think someone that decides to end another human's life is going to decide not to because they cannot find their revolver? Why wouldn't they just choose another lethal weapon? There are literally thousands of potentially lethal items in every home and let's not even head into the garage and check there, shall we begin banning each one? Did you know a human can be killed by inhaling finely powdered cinnamon? IKR! I'll organize the petition so we can put an end to the cinnamon menace once and for all!

Also how do you determine who will commit these "crimes of passion and opportunity" so that you can seize only their their guns? ...oh wait n/m, I keep forgetting the ultimate goal is to seize all guns.
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 171
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 7:30:46 PM

LOL What? You think someone that decides to end another human's life is going to decide not to because they cannot find their revolver?


Yep, it is called a cooling off period.




Why wouldn't they just choose another lethal weapon?


Because killing someone with anything but a gun for the most part would require physical contact.




There are literally thousands of potentially lethal items in every home and let's not even head into the garage and check there, shall we begin banning each one?


Right, so when you are out at a restaurant or driving in you car, what ever is in your garage is not relevant, but if you happen to have a gun in the glove box it is a whole different story.




Did you know a human can be killed by inhaling finely powdered cinnamon?


Did you know stating that adds nothing to the conversation and shows either a lack a maturity or understanding ?




Also how do you determine who will commit these "crimes of passion and opportunity" so that you can seize only their their guns?


Screening out people who are unstable and suffer from mental health issues takes care of the vast majority.

As you see, you need to be a bit f8cked in the head to want to kill someone.

That fact that you need that explained to you is rather telling.




...oh wait n/m, I keep forgetting the ultimate goal is to seize all guns.


Nope, that is just your paranoid reality.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 172
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 7:42:01 PM

Check page 7, from sunnydayssss post

“We all agree on that~gun control is important~ it's now more a case of

Should guns be banned:)))”

You are going to need more than one example... of some person suggesting that... before you even begin to "have a case"... especially when almost all of the "anti" side... are screeching about banning guns... One person does not a majority make... not even remotely close... The same can't be said for the "they want to ban all our guns" crowd...

The hard question is- Can we REALLY keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them by passing stricter gun laws?

To me... the question is... does a law have to guarantee that NOBODY will ever break it... before it becomes a valid law...? If we went by the consideration... "The law shouldn't stop me when others can simply choose to ignore it"... would we have any laws whatsoever... at all... period...?

I think it is a silly consideration... when the real question is... will it make a positive difference... to the situation... and NOT will it completely... irrevocably... end the problem... as law is not and never... was intended or designed to do that...

It seems to me that passing laws banning anything usually backfires and creates a greater criminal element to sell them and if they are illegal, isn't it MORE likely that criminals will still be able to get them and use them for bad reasons, while keeping them out of the hands of law abiding citizens BECAUSE they would be illegal? (look at the so called "drug" war, this has mostly led to prison over crowding and non violent drug offenders getting longer sentences than violent offenders sometimes do).

And yet... the passing of such laws elsewhere... do not appear to have produced that problem... which so many fear... They seem to have done just exactly what they were supposed to do... and not much else...

If someone wants to kill someone bad enough, won't they find a way to do it, no matter what the law says?

That's right... if someone wants to do something badly enough... there is almost nothing we can do... in a free society... to stop that... so perhaps we shouldn't have any laws at all... because... someone will ALWAYS want to violate it badly enough... to do so... no matter what the law says... or does to punish... or does to prevent...

Am I right...?
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 173
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 7:58:31 PM

BBIrish:
I am especially concerned by those states that have enacted open carry. Some of these open carry states have no requirements to be met to engage in open carry. Meaning, to me, that someone with no gun safety training or use training is carrying an unregistered, bought in a private sale, gun in public where I may happen into....that scares the livin' craype out of me.


Are we to take it, You never have been to Vermont? Or is it, You just weren't aware of their Laws about carrying firearms?


Franky:
Yep, it is called a cooling off period.

but if you happen to have a gun in the glove box it is a whole different story.

Nope, that is just your paranoid reality.


Either the Person has been through a background check & a cooling off period, which, then they have a Firearm, or You want to Ban them...

It perfectly clear, you're on the Ban them All side....

The heyday of Gun Control in the USA was when the Fed 1994 AWB was enacted....
That cost the Democrats control of the House....
If Clinton & the Democrats had left Guns alone, then maybe the ACA, could have been His Baby....

But they turned the heat Up, too quick, & awoke the Sleeping Giant of American Gun Owners.... Add in the Rise of the WWW & the instant call to Arms, & You see why there has been no new Big Gun Control Laws on the Fed side.....
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 174
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:11:57 PM
At the other end of the legal spectrum sit Mexico and Brazil, two countries fighting extreme gun violence. Mexico is commonly considered to have some of the strictest gun legislation in the region -– there is only one, military-owned gun store in the country. Civilians are prohibited from owning military grade weapons, cannot carry a gun outside their home, and must undergo rigorous background checks to obtain an ownership license.

In Brazil, civilians are also prohibited from owning weapons characteristic of those used by the armed forces and from carrying guns in public, except in exceptional circumstances. A person must be 25 to acquire a gun. Additionally, the country has carried out disarmament campaigns, which a study by Brazilian institute IPEA found helped lower violent crime in São Paulo state between 2001 and 2007.

More than half of Mexico's homicides were committed with a gun, and close to 90 percent of Brazil's involved a firearm.

http://www.insightcrime.org/news-analysis/does-strict-gun-legislation-reduce-violent-crime-in-latam

In short, a regulated approach may reduce gun ownership and have an impact on petty crime and casual violence, but gun legislation alone will do little to reign in the criminal groups responsible for the rampant violence in the region's most murderous areas.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 175
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:18:00 PM
Actually, Mexico's (and Canada's for that matter) gun problem is because of the US's free market.

The guns used in your two neighbours' gun violence invariably comes from your country.

Think of it this way: you'll always get some gun nut coming onto any discussion about gun control bringing up Chicago's gun control laws. He or she will point out how much gun violence there is in that city and how that proves gun laws don't work. What they never seem to recognize is that Gary Indiana is just a transit ride away.

If guns are easily purchased a few miles away, it means guns are available to people who live in places where they aren't.
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