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 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 201
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...Page 9 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)

See, two different meanings. The current discussion is about "regulating" guns, not banning them, so, in the context of this discussion, I'm pretty sure you meant to say "... Canadians will take the lead in a worldwide regulation .


You can understand my mistake, no one had ever proposed any new regulations on this thread. Just a lot of talk about gun deaths and which country has the most guns, what people did and what they really meant in 1787.

Everything in the USA is regulated, it's hard to name anything that doesn't have a set of regulations, the same for most of the world. But IMO the USA has led the way in over regulating society, you can't even sell hot dogs on the street because of regulations. I feel a lot more free in a country like Thailand.

I thought this was a "let's slam the USA and start a fight thread".

Proposing and spelling out in detail new regulations isn't a popular topic, that requires too much thought. It's almost like work. The fun of the forum is witty replies, finding faux pas and finding minor mistakes. Along those lines.

I have a curious question: It feels like everyone in the world wants to question USA policy, laws, culture, regulations, but citizens in the USA seem to not care at all about what happens in other countries. Why is that?
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 202
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 6:21:24 AM

I have a curious question: It feels like everyone in the world wants to question USA policy, laws, culture, regulations, but citizens in the USA seem to not care at all about what happens in other countries. Why is that?


This is meant ironically right?

In Canada we have known for decades that we aren't allowed to make our own drug policies. The US has been pressuring the Netherlands for years on its marijuana laws, though I imagine that has changed now.

We have't been able to have reasonable drug laws because we share a border with you; we're not allowed to complain about your gun laws that directly lead to gun crime in this country.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 203
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 6:46:31 AM

In Canada we have known for decades that we aren't allowed to make our own drug policies. The US has been pressuring the Netherlands for years on its marijuana laws, though I imagine that has changed now.

We have't been able to have reasonable drug laws because we share a border with you; we're not allowed to complain about your gun laws that directly lead to gun crime in this country.


You could tighten your border security to help stop guns. It used to be very easy to drive into Canada without any sort of check. I don't think we provide any AID to Canada, and when we looked for partners in the war with Iraq, we didn't get a lot of takers. So our influence is a lot more limited than you think.

I do think the West, meaning mostly the USA, does try and influence policy in the rest of the world. In Thailand the West pressured the government to end polygamy. Not sure if it was the USA, or if it was the Christian segment of the world that put the pressure on.

But that was why I specifically singled out citizens of each country and not the Government. And now the USA is no longer the overwhelming global leader in the world. Like we were after WWII.

BUT don't you think the USA makes a convenient scapegoat for other Governments to dodge the blame for failing their own citizens? IMO that is a lot of what is really going on.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 204
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 6:53:54 AM

You can understand my mistake, no one had ever proposed any new regulations on this thread. Just a lot of talk about gun deaths and which country has the most guns, what people did and what they really meant in 1787.

Perhaps that is because... These topics never seem to get beyond... a lot of... "There is NO problem!!!!"... and "You want to BAN!!!!"... screeching...

You can't discuss ACTUAL solutions... and actual proposals... with people who adamantly refuse to do so...

Perhaps if the "anti" side... was "stocked" with a few more people... who were prepared to be at least slightly rational... and honest... we would have been there now...

Haven't you noticed... that the only people I call "two words, three syllables, starts with "s""... are the ones who simply refuse... to be rational and honest... many of whom KNOW they are refusing to be rational and honest...

I have a curious question: It feels like everyone in the world wants to question USA policy, laws, culture, regulations, but citizens in the USA seem to not care at all about what happens in other countries. Why is that?

First of all... you need to "get out" some more... Americans are FOREVER b!tching and moaning... about what OTHER people do... in OTHER countries... and attempting to dictate to them... how they should live and spend their money (especially the "spend their money" part)... even to the point of... doing it at "the end of a barrel"... It has been going on like that... for as long as I have been alive...

AND because there are so MANY... who are jingoistic... insular... self-absorbed... little a$$holes... who see the rest of the world as "America's bargain basement"...

And I'm saying that as an American... It's one of those little insights observant Americans get... when they spend half of their life... living outside the US... in multiple countries... You get to see Americans... as they appear to others...

Shall I regale you with some of my "Americans abroad" stories...? I have lots... WAY more negative than positive... to illustrate...? Maybe Cotter will throw some of hers in too...

But that was why I specifically singled out citizens of each country and not the Government.

I can't believe I have to explain this... BECAUSE... it is the individual citizens who have to live with the fall-out...
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 205
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 7:20:01 AM

First of all... you need to "get out" some more... Americans are FOREVER b!tching and moaning... about what OTHER people do... in OTHER countries... and attempting to dictate to them... how they should live and spend their money (especially the "spend their money" part)... even to the point of... doing it at "the end of a barrel"... It has been going on like that... for as long as I have been alive...

AND because there are so MANY... who are jingoistic... insular... self-absorbed... little a$$holes... who see the rest of the world as "America's bargain basement"...

And I'm saying that as an American... It's one of those little insights observant Americans get... when they spend half of their life... living outside the US... in multiple countries... You get to see Americans... as they appear to others...


I see that a lot from expats who live in other countries, and from tourists.

But it isn't particular to people from USA, I think USA are more quiet about it. Because we have been painted with the Ugly American from the late 1950s, people from the USA are overly sensitive to it.

I see it a lot more from Germans, English and Australians. The complaints about the countries they live in or visit. Canadians do seem to be more laid back.

I was embarrassed by an Australian bitterly complaining to the server in a Subway restaurant in Thailand that this wasn't the way Subway should handle items on sale. Embarrassed because we both are Enlish speakers and get painted with the same brush.

Like she didn't think maybe it was a little different for each country?

But I asked, don't you think the USA makes a convenient scapegoat for other Governments to dodge the blame for failing their own citizens? IMO that is a lot of what is really going on.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 206
view profile
History
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 9:30:31 AM

You can understand my mistake, no one had ever proposed any new regulations on this thread. Just a lot of talk about gun deaths and which country has the most guns, what people did and what they really meant in 1787.

Not really, since the 'more-regulation' crowd has been saying, repeatedly "This isn't about banning guns, its about better regulating them." The 'less-regulation' crowd responds with "YOU CAN'T BAN GUNS, IT'S A SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT!", and then someone repeats "not banning, regulating', and then it's "THAT'S THE FIRST STEP TO BANNING and I don't care about stats or the tragedies of others, or that it's been demonstrated in other countries that regulation reduces violent death overall, and gun death in particular, I want unfettered access to guns".


I thought this was a "let's slam the USA and start a fight thread".

Perhaps you are overly sensitive. It might be a 'slam gun-nuts' thread, but not the whole entire US of A. As a matter of fact, overall, slightly more USA citizens support increased gun control than those who do not, and support for stricter gun control has been slowly growing over the past 10 years.
http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm


I have a curious question: It feels like everyone in the world wants to question USA policy, laws, culture, regulations, but citizens in the USA seem to not care at all about what happens in other countries. Why is that?

Hah! The US made an example of a Canadian citizen as part of their 'war on drugs'.
"American authorities charged Emery and co-defendants Gregory Keith Williams, 50, of Vancouver, BC and Michelle Rainey-Fenkarek, 34, of Vancouver, BC with "'Conspiracy to Distribute Marijuana", "Conspiracy to Distribute Marijuana Seeds" and "Conspiracy to Engage in Money Laundering". Even though all the alleged offenses occurred in Canada, Canadian police did not lay any charges.[117]"

US regularly interferes in other countries, either subtly through political pressure, or more directly through sanctions or with guns/bombs. Generally, the claim is that they are making the world "safer" or "more democratic", but I bet the people in the parts of the world where the US is applying pressure sure don't feel safer, and how many of those countries have actually become 'more democratic'?

If only the US really did not care at all about what happens in other countries!
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 207
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 9:50:10 AM

You can understand my mistake, no one had ever proposed any new regulations on this thread.


Perhaps you missed all the posts I've been making about the unregulated gun show loophole, or private gun sale argument I've been making throughout this thread. Or are you making a semantic argument that "I've never proposed legislation" with my argument? Gawd daymut close the loophole.

I've written about high capacity magazines...you know...30-100 round magazines that hunters really need...cough....cough...

I've written about assault type weapons...AR-15 type guns that "sometime" (cough cough) get easily converted into fully automatic weapons.

So, let me spell it out for you:

1. Close the private sale loophole that exists in much of America.

2. Limit magazine size.

3. Regulate assault type weapons in all states.

This type of regulation will precipitate the usual rebuttal "don't take away our guns!"
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 208
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 10:06:31 AM
IIn msg 29 I said the following.


I am in favor of making the rules national Vs state, and plugging the bullet holes in current legislation, but I am in favor of gun ownership in general.


No one picked up on that, instead it's all about useless bashing back and forth.

_mungojoe_ and HFX_RGB2 steer the thread back to bashing USA policies and culture, not any attempt to disuses any regulations proposed by myself or BigBadNIrish, both of us actually live here. Then they get a few emotional responses, and run with that. It's the whole point of the thread, create some stupid argument that is meaningless.


Perhaps you are overly sensitive. It might be a 'slam gun-nuts' thread, but not the whole entire US of A. As a matter of fact, overall, slightly more USA citizens support increased gun control than those who do not, and support for stricter gun control has been slowly growing over the past 10 years.


So you think the title of this thread isn't bashing the USA? "American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says".

What MSG numbers did either _mungojoe_ or HFX_RGB2 ever discuss actual new regulations, and in what detail. All I was stats about gun violence, maybe I missed it.

But I asked, don't you think the USA makes a convenient scapegoat for other Governments to dodge the blame for failing their own citizens? IMO that is a lot of what is really going on.

What's your opinion of scapegoating the USA? Does this go on, blaming the US for domestic problems. Kind of like victumhood turned international, nothing we can do, it's all the USA's fault, not our own failed policies.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 209
view profile
History
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 10:31:24 AM
^^^ Yes, I did miss your attempted contribution to rational discussion.


So you think the title of this thread isn't bashing the USA? "American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says".

Honestly, no. Admittedly, provocative - but not bashing. If the last two words weren't "Study says", I might be more inclined to see it your way.


don't you think the USA makes a convenient scapegoat for other Governments to dodge the blame for failing their own citizens? IMO that is a lot of what is really going on.

No. I think people see what the States does (or doesn't do) and they draw their own conclusion, irrespective of what their governments tell them. Many governments consider themselves American allies, yet their citizens wish desperately that their country wasn't quite so ready to fall in line with American goals and policies. What you say may be true for *some* countries, but nowhere near universal, IMO.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 210
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 11:00:05 AM

So you think the title of this thread isn't bashing the USA? "American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says"

BUT... THAT IS what the study said... almost word for word... AND it was written by an AMERICAN... AND... It was posted by an AMERICAN... AND... It is a point many Americans agree acts in synergy with lax gun laws... to create the very problem... the study discusses...

But... of course... it is just gratuitous "America bashing"...

not any attempt to disuses any regulations proposed by myself or BigBadNIrish, both of us actually live here.

Perhaps it has something to do with... People who actually WANT to fix the problem... not being the impediment...?

From what you say here... YOU aren't the "anti" crowd... and therefore aren't the impediment... Please tell me what progress is actually made... for example... for a few "anti abortion" folks... to talk among themselves... about the best way to be "prevent abortion"... if it doesn't include the "pro abortion" side... preventing your "abortion law" from moving forward...?

Perhaps if you spent more time... helping to deal with the "BAN, BAN, BAN" screechers... and getting the counter-productive and obstructive stuff out of the way... so an ACTUAL productive discussion can be had... instead of b!tching about people responding to the "BAN, BAN, BAN" screechers... and your self-imposed "offense"... we might be closer to that goal... Do you think...? Maybe...?

And you may also note... I haven't shot down any "solution oriented" posts or comments of yours... just the ones that propagate the silliness of the "BAN, BAN, BAN" and "There is NO problem" chanters...
 sacredrain
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 211
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 11:29:52 AM

Perhaps it has something to do with... People who actually WANT to fix the problem... not being the impediment...?


What if...and stay with me here for a moment joe...what if the "problem" isn't the availability of tools that one chooses to employ in the commission of a violent act, but the propensity towards violence itself?

What if, the solution isn't to reduce everyone's freedoms, but to work toward reducing the conditions that lead some few to initiate force against their fellow humans?

Crazy I know, but in a world where technology enables one to print up a working gun that is ready to fire within a few hours I don't see that more rules are going to do much to curtail the behavior of those that don't care about rules. Perhaps we should be focusing on why people choose to kill others, instead of what means they choose to do it.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 212
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 11:56:45 AM

what if the "problem" isn't the availability of tools that one chooses to employ in the commission of a violent act, but the propensity towards violence itself?

What if, the solution isn't to reduce everyone's freedoms, but to work toward reducing the conditions that lead some few to initiate force against their fellow humans?

Well... you do know these questions were asked... pages ago... and answered pages ago... at a point where you were posting repeatedly... playing your little "circle jerk dance" of shifting points rather than responding to answers and questions... and icing them with "gungrabber-type" screeching... instead of honest debate...

I am willing to debate that honestly... but you need to go back to where those points were first brought up and answered... and respond to those answers... rather than pretending that it never came up...

That WOULD be honest debating... would it not...?
 sacredrain
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 213
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 12:04:23 PM

That WOULD be honest debating... would it not...?


Dunno about all that, but I do believe you're sincerely interested in at least the appearance of honest debate...as you see it.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 214
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 12:18:04 PM

BUT... THAT IS what the study said... almost word for word... AND it was written by an AMERICAN... AND... It was posted by an AMERICAN... AND... It is a point many Americans agree acts in synergy with lax gun laws... to create the very problem... the study discusses...


Joe I see you actually created your own more sensational headline which changed the meaning of the original article and made it more provocative.

The article said it was an exceptionally American problem.
Mass shootings in the U.S.: Guns, glory, broken dreams

NOT: American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says

A new study sheds light on why mass shootings in the U.S. are 'an exceptionally American problem'

It found that American mass shooters were more likely to arm themselves with multiple weapons, though they killed fewer people than shooters in other countries. 
America puts more pressure on its citizens to succeed professionally and financially than other countries, Lankford discusses in his study, and when Americans have bad experiences at work or school and fail to achieve their goals, they are more likely to respond with acts of violence.

Different cultures define success in different ways, and while Canadians and Americans might seek the same things in life, achieving "the Canadian dream" isn't a national ethos the way "the American dream" is south of the border.

A focus on fame

Then there's also the idolization of fame, which appears uniquely American, according to Lankford. Increasingly in the U.S., especially among young people, becoming famous is considered the ultimate form of success.

"If being famous is one of your most important goals, it's setting up a lot of people to fail," he said in the interview.
-====================================
As I said in MSG 28


It would be interesting to take all gun related homicide out of the data, would the USA still have an unusually high rate of murder among st other developed countries? I think the USA is just a little more prone to individual acts of violence than other countries. No doubt part of that is because the USA is the most individualist country in the world, and we put a lot of competitive pressure on people to succeed.


So in the view of the professor, and in my own POV, it isn't about gun availability or regulation, it's about USA culture being more prone to violence when goals aren't achieved.

The USA is the most individualist country in the world. Part of our national psychology is:

•The society is loosely-knit in which the expectation is that people look after themselves and their immediate families only and should not rely (too much) on authorities for support.

Our country was not that long ago created by violence against British rule, and by violent Indian encounter, and being attacked in WWII, most recently 9/11.

How often has Canada been attacked by foreign Governments, by foreign terrorist. I don't recall any big incidents.

It isn't far fetched to think Americans will tend towards violence as a solution to problems.

So to change gun violence isn't about guns, it's about changing the national psychic in regards to using violence, which doesn't change quickly or easily.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 215
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 12:22:00 PM

Dunno about all that, but I do believe you're sincerely interested in at least the appearance of honest debate...as you see it.

Well then... why is it that you... still aren't willing... to go back to those relevant posts... where you had every opportunity to rebut or refute... those very same points... at the time... and rebut or refute them now...?

Why aren't you willing to stop playing games... and actually answer the points... instead of doing the "circle jerk dance"...?

Explain the perspective that makes that "honest debate"...
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 216
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 12:50:24 PM
You say tomato I say tomatoe:


The article said it was an exceptionally American problem.
Mass shootings in the U.S.: Guns, glory, broken dreams

NOT: American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says

A new study sheds light on why mass shootings in the U.S. are 'an exceptionally American problem'


The article does say:


His work discusses the reasons behind his finding, and in the context of the theory of American exceptionalism, he finds that there is indeed something uniquely American about mass shootings.


In addition, I never found where Lansford said this:


It found that American mass shooters were more likely to arm themselves with multiple weapons, though they killed fewer people than shooters in other countries.


Perhaps you can quote that part of the article that I cannot find ^^^.


So in the view of the professor, and in my own POV, it isn't about gun availability or regulation, it's about USA culture being more prone to violence when goals aren't achieved.


I'm confused....why did Lansford point out:


Many Americans take their constitutional right to bear arms very seriously, and Lankford's study points out that the U.S. ranks first out of 178 countries when it comes to gun ownership. A 2007 survey showed Americans own 88.8 guns per 100 people. Canada ranked 13th, but is not even close to the U.S. with 30.8 guns per 100 people.


Why is it so important to ignore that it is a person with a readily available gun responsible for killing another human being.

I really don't know much of the details about other mass killings---other than the Sandy Hook massacre.

Adam Lanza's weapons were all straw purchases...his mother purchased all of his weapons-legally. He entered the Sandy Hook Elementary School with an AR-15 and ten 30 round mags...within 5 minutes had shot 154 times killing 20 children and 6 adults...he had already killed his mother....27 dead...20 children...all 1st and 2nd graders...Would Adam Lanza have been able to make those gun purchases on his own?


EDIT TO INCLUDE:

bigbadnirish: Teaching a man to fish.


Please...don't insult me...Just quote from the article where it said fewer were killed in America...because I did read the article...is it your intention to troll me...pizz me off...what...you go out of your way to reply to everything but what I've asked..
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 217
view profile
History
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 12:52:43 PM

What if, the solution isn't to reduce everyone's freedoms, but to work toward reducing the conditions that lead some few to initiate force against their fellow humans?

I entirely agree with this. At the same time, limiting access to guns also limits 'spur-of-the-moment' decisions when one is under the influence of anything from drugs to anger to despair.


in a world where technology enables one to print up a working gun that is ready to fire within a few hours I don't see that more rules are going to do much to curtail the behavior of those that don't care about rules

True, and nobody is claiming that regulations eliminate behaviour. Nonetheless, ease-of-access makes a difference. The reason cigarette smoking rate has declined is because access is limited, due to cost and because of laws limiting where one can smoke. One of the biggest objections to legalizing marijuana is that it will increase marijuana use among the population, and especially among kids.

Someone very close to me was attacked a year or so ago; the attacker used a knife because in his words, he wasn't able to get a gun, which he would have preferred. My friend survived the attack, barely, because it was a knife that was used instead of a gun. If getting a gun was easier in Canada, my friend would have been dead that day.


Perhaps we should be focusing on why people choose to kill others, instead of what means they choose to do it.

In my friend's case, the attacker had a variety of reason - some of them contradictory. He is currently in a psychiatric hospital. Even 'addressing the reasons' isn't a foolproof method of eliminating violent behaviour, but it would certainly help.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 218
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 1:06:08 PM
bigbadnirish: Teaching a man to fish.

Get the article in your browser, copy a unique sounding phase, like "American mass shooters", paste that into the "find" feature (control F) then search for the phase.

You will find it in the article, and in the future you can use this to find other things like this easily.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-guns-glory-broken-dreams-1.3203335

The rest I paraphrased by looking at the text. Like when I said my own POV, Lansford didn't quote my own POV.

take care and good luck, I am out of this thread.

ciao
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 219
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 1:21:28 PM

So in the view of the professor, and in my own POV, it isn't about gun availability or regulation, it's about USA culture being more prone to violence when goals aren't achieved.

Yes... I agree that he believes it MAY be due to Americans being more "violence prone"... which I'm sure would have some small part to play in crime rates... but... is it simply more prone to FATAL violence... and as he states... he doesn't know that... he didn't look at that... and... I think it is safe to assume you didn't either... beyond forming an opinion... That's fine...

Now... I have posted these very same numbers... in one form or another... many times on these forums... almost every gun control thread there has been... some I am sure you have participated in... but I won't expect you to go digging up other threads... or remember every detail...

Here is how the numbers lay out... this is from numerous governmental... and NGO... surveys on crime... The actual numbers are 2011 numbers... as that is the latest that all these numbers can be found for all these places...

AND... I am only using... stable democracies... relatively, it does include Italy and Greece... with relatively low levels of corruption... again, same caveat... and relatively sound, effective law enforcement...

They are also... either... the primary founding cultural populations of the US... or... societies with the same primary founding cultural populations... such as the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand...

First... how it's organized...

country, rate/ownership, total/homicides, rate/homicides, total/gun homicides, rate/gun homicides, rate/homicides less gun

Now the numbers...

australia, 15.0, 254, 1.1, 43, 0.2, 0.9
austria, 30.4, 71, 0.8, 8, 0.1, 0.7
belgium, 17.2, 198, 1.8, 36, 0.33, 1.47
canada, 30.8, 543, 1.6, 172, 0.51, 1.09
czech, 16.3, 83, 0.8, 16, 0.15, 0.65
denmark, 12.0, 44, 0.8, 12, 0.22, 0.58
finland, 45.7, 116, 2.2, 18, 0.33, 1.87
france, 31.2, 743, 1.2, 127, 0.2, 1.0
germany, 30.3, 662, 0.8, 61, 0.07, 0.73
greece, 22.5, 184, 1.6, 60, 0.53, 1.07
iceland, 30.3, 3, 0.9, 0, 0.0, 0.9
ireland, 6.35, 53, 1.12, 12, 0.25, 0.87
italy, 11.9, 552, 0.9, 209, 0.35, 0.55
luxembourg, 15.3, 4, 0.8, 3, 0.6, 0.2
netherlands, 3.9, 144, 0.9, 49, 0.29, 0.61
new zealand, 22.6, 83, 1.9, 8, 0.18, 1.72
norway, 31.3, 111, 2.3, 5, 0.1, 2.2
poland, 1.3, 449, 1.2, 16, 0.04, 1.16
portugal, 24.22, 114, 1.1, 19, 0.18, 0.92
spain, 10.4, 387, 0.8, 57, 0.12, 0.68
sweden, 31.6, 81, 0.9, 18, 0.19, 0.71
switzerland, 45.7, 46, 0.59, 22, 0.28, 0.31
UK, 6.7, 653, 1.03, 38, 0.06, 0.97
US, 88.8, 14827, 4.7, 11101, 3.6, 1.1

You should pay special attention to the last number... the rate of homicides... with gun homicides removed... You will notice that... the US... is virtually the same everyone else... fairly close to... "middle of the pack"...

So... it may very well be true that Americans are more "violence prone"... but it doesn't show up as fatal violence... more than anywhere else with similar cultural origins... once you take the guns out of the mix...

And THAT... given the effect regulation has had on this in other countries... tells me... that addressing the availability of loads of firepower... reduces death and violence... clearly so...
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 220
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 2:43:49 PM

Perhaps you missed all the posts I've been making about the unregulated gun show loophole, or private gun sale argument I've been making throughout this thread. Or are you making a semantic argument that "I've never proposed legislation" with my argument? Gawd daymut close the loophole.

I've written about high capacity magazines...you know...30-100 round magazines that hunters really need...cough....cough...

I've written about assault type weapons...AR-15 type guns that "sometime" (cough cough) get easily converted into fully automatic weapons.

Why don't you explain how You easily Convert a AR15 Type Rifle to Full Auto?

What are the advantages or disadvantages of Full Auto Fire, for a Solo Person, not part of a Group?

In a US Army Infantry Fire Team, why does only one Member of the Fire Team, have a Full Auto Weapon?
Why did the US Army switch from Full Auto M16A1s, to 3 round Burst M16A2/M4?
Why do all the other members of the Fire Team, have their Weapons on Semi Auto?


So, let me spell it out for you:

1. Close the private sale loophole that exists in much of America.

2. Limit magazine size.

3. Regulate assault type weapons in all states.

This type of regulation will precipitate the usual rebuttal "don't take away our guns!"


Should a Spouse be able to buy a firearm, as a gift, for their Husband/Wife?
Should a Parent or Grandparent, be able to give their Child/Grandchild a firearm?

Why did You pick that size magazine for Your Limit?
Why is a 29 round mag, OK, but a 30 round one, not?

What exactly is a Assault Type Weapon & what makes it different from a Non-Assault Weapon?
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 221
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 2:45:42 PM
It is just really boring in Canada because all things PC prevailed and there is nothing to deride people for or attempt to feel superior about anymore. Just let it slide.

By the way, doesn't Canada have more guns per capita than the USA but they just don't shoot each other as much? Maybe that is the focus of the inquiry. A powerful government and its people without guns is not a good mix. Lived in that. Would not want to see that in the USA>

By the way, closing a loophole would NOT stop illegal sales.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 222
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 2:54:19 PM

What are the advantages or disadvantages of Full Auto Fire, for a Solo Person, not part of a Group?

In a US Army Infantry Fire Team, why does only one Member of the Fire Team, have a Full Auto Weapon?
Why did the US Army switch from Full Auto M16A1s, to 3 round Burst M16A2/M4?
Why do all the other members of the Fire Team, have their Weapons on Semi Auto?

Why don't you explain to us... the difference between combat... and being in the middle of an unsuspecting group with the ability to place large numbers of rounds "down range"... if there is such a thing when "down range" is a 360 degree arc... and no ready, easy avenues of retreat for large numbers of panicked people...

Then... perhaps... we'll see whether this actually does have any relevance...
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 223
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History
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 2:56:47 PM

It is just really boring in Canada

Better boring than dead.

because all things PC prevailed and there is nothing to deride people for

Yes, I agree -- we are pretty nice people, overall - though we do have a few racist, ignorant whackos. Not nearly as many as does the States and they certainly don't get to a position where they have some support for leading the country.

or attempt to feel superior about anymore

Well we do actually feel superior because you know, we have regulated gun ownership - and a lot less gun death than the States, so we don't have to suffer regular mass murders, have our kids mowed down while they're at school or movie theaters. And, we also tend to feel superior about our tax-supported medical system. We think it's important to make sure all our citizens benefit from the wealth created within our nation .... although sadly, we are following in the US path toward more income inequality. Possibly the upcoming election will change all that, we'll see.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 224
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 3:00:26 PM
Hey, 4ms4me. Just an observation. I am glad that we agree,
 congupnaroad
Joined: 7/22/2015
Msg: 225
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History
American Exceptionalism=Mass Murder Study Says...
Posted: 9/2/2015 4:06:23 PM

Jim Cooley said he was exercising his second amendment rights by carrying his AR-15 rifle into Atlanta's airport, which is protected under state and federal law.
A Georgia man walked into Hartsfield–Jackson Atlanta International Airport with his wife, his daughter and, around his neck, a fully loaded AR-15 rifle — and he had the law on his side.

Jim Cooley is legally allowed to have his rifle in the terminal of the world's busiest airport for passenger traffic, and he told the Daily News he has no concerns about igniting fear in those who see him packing in public.

"People think that if you're simply carrying your firearm, regardless of how you're carrying it, you're a bad person," he told the News Wednesday morning. "But if you're not carrying it in a menacing or threatening manner, it should be no cause for concern for anybody."


nydailynews.com

3rd June 2015

I really respect the rights of citizens to be able to carry a fully loaded assault rifle into an airport (he had a 100 round drum) ! All in the name of the "right to bear arms".(Pfft!).

Cooley said "you never know what might happen" and he carried his fully loaded assault rifle to protect his daughter as he was simply dropping her off at the airport. Isn't that what airport security are for?

In reality he expected no one at that airport to think WTF?

What a loonie! Now that is atypical of the paranoid delusional thinking that Americans who are advocating gun reform are faced with.
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