Notice: Forums will be shutdown by June 2019

To focus on better serving our members, we've decided to shut down the POF forums.

While regular posting is now disabled, you can continue to view all threads until the end of June 2019. Event Hosts can still create and promote events while we work on a new and improved event creation service for you.

Thank you!

Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 26
Gee, if she was a liberal standing for a liberal cause, what would the uproar be?Page 2 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
To answer the original question: "Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail?",
IMO She should be receiving some sort of psychiatric help, she's clearly delusional.

I think that belief in deities, of ALL flavours, is a form of mental illness, and requires some sort of 'CBT', to address the kinds of 'circular thought processes', which perpetuate and entrench such irrational beliefs. (Much as Depression, OCD., and many other variants can also be helped by forms of CBT)
Or..
You could just ask why, if her "god" is so powerful and "omnipotent" and shit, why doesn't "He" (Monotheistic gods are always male) just "smite" the whole town.>?

I mean, in the bible/tora/koran (delete as applicable) , the places where all of our supposed "knowledge" regarding the alleged existence of this "god" comes from, he did an awful lot of "smiting".
He could just turn all the gay people into pillars of salt, or send them a plague of locusts... then there's fire and brimstone, floods.....
There's lots of shit that "god" could allegedly do, but apparently his aim is very poor..
The last time he got pissed-off, about gay rights, he drowned a load of Thai people, by mistake, apparently.
Ironically, I'll bet they were also praying to their gods too, to no avail, as usual.

As I'm always asking "jehova's Witnesses", when they knock on my door;
" if "god" exists, WHY do I need someone else (them) to tell me about that? Wouldn't/shouldn't that be apparent??"
I haven't heard any voices in my head yet, but there's still time....

I think that "gay people" should be allowed access to the same meaningless rituals which are available to "straight people".
If "god" doesn't like that, he can just smite my arse.
JMO
 ThatGirlNamedAlli
Joined: 12/28/2013
Msg: 27
Gee, if she was a liberal standing for a liberal cause, what would the uproar be?
Posted: 9/5/2015 11:06:10 AM
Thomas Moore part duex: 50 shades grayer.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 28
Gee, if she was a liberal standing for a liberal cause, what would the uproar be?
Posted: 9/5/2015 11:07:32 AM
benartflick interesting website, but your URL just directs one to moviestorm, so I have no idea which movie you are talking about.

I tried "I DID NOT RAPE HER" as a title, nothing came up. Not sure if I DID NOT RAPE HER was a movie title or your own denial.
 benartflick
Joined: 3/8/2012
Msg: 29
Gee, if she was a liberal standing for a liberal cause, what would the uproar be?
Posted: 9/5/2015 11:18:39 AM

benartflick interesting website, but your URL just directs one to moviestorm, so I have no idea which movie you are talking about.


Sorry it didn't bring you to the video.

Type Rape! in search block.

I'm rgann8 on that web site.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 30
view profile
History
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/5/2015 11:20:20 AM

What stopped the judge from just ordering the others to issue the licenses in the first place?

From what I have read, Davis was using her supervisory position to prevent the other staff members from issuing licenses. Given that they seem happy to issue the licenses now that she's gone, perhaps that's true.

Is this another power grab of the federal government over state concerns? Domestic Relations, Elections,

Looks more like another 'grab' from the Federal government to avoid allowing *religion* to dictate law. You know, so all of America doesn't become subject to Christian (Sharia) law.

What would you have done?

What would I have done if I were ...
The judge: I would have cited her for contempt, but put her on house arrest - that would have frustrated the "Christian Goes To Jail for Beliefs" aspect of it. House arrest isn't that tough. Or maybe just a restraining order keeping her from within 500 yards of her workplace and her co-workers.
Her employer: Impeach, since apparently in this situation she's not able to be fired. In the meantime, suspended her since impeachment can take some time.
Davis: I'd have been convinced that I had the right, due to my 'belief' to deny non-believer's their legal rights. I would have ignored the Bible teaching of being subject to secular authority, and the one about letting one's good works glorify God's name, and demonstrate His glory to non-believers. Other Christians may applaud Ms Davis' stand, but non-Christians are not persuaded to see God's righteousness, mercy or glory. Instead, they are moved to ridicule her and dismiss Christianity as being irrelevant and populated by ignorant fanatics. Good job Ms. Davis. (Though I suspect she's being well-compensated for her 'Christianity' by the organization that is supporting her.)
(quote]Will the state legislature amend the law to accommodate people like Davis or force them not to run for such offices?
As long as people are accorded their legal rights, I don't really care what State legislatures do to accommodate such religious objectors, as long as people's legal rights are protected, and not subject to the moral whims of Christianity or any other religion.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 31
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/5/2015 11:49:13 AM

Looks more like another 'grab' from the Federal government to avoid allowing *religion* to dictate law.
-----------------------
Msg 17: "Here is the oath of office taken by county clerks in Kentucky:"
blah, blah, blah- "so help me God."


If she had to take an oath to God to get her job, wouldn't her religious views have some merit?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 32
view profile
History
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/5/2015 12:14:37 PM
Message 25 ...
I believe the woman should be removed from her job.
As many of us do.

The judge put her in jail for disobeying his order. Removing her from the job makes more sense.
She's an elected official. What would you say is the procedure for removing her from her job?

I HATE injustice or lack of fairness. Sorry!
Yes ... a lot of us do too.

Leaving her on her job was allowing her to commit injustices on others ... that was wrong. Leaving her on her job was allowing her to treat others unfairly ... that was wrong. The judge ordered her to comply with the law and she didn't. That was wrong.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 33
view profile
History
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/5/2015 12:15:20 PM

div class="quote"> If she had to take an oath to God to get her job, wouldn't her religious views have some merit?

As a Christian taking an oath before God, I would expect she'd be even more dedicated to carrying out her job duties, as a way to bring glory to her God. As it is, she's not now not only breaking a secular oath, she's also breaking an oath she made before God.

I wonder if the "so help me God" part is eliminated for non-Christians when they are hired? Regardless, what if that non-Christian held a 'sincere' belief that homosexuality was wrong, because they are Muslim, Sikh or Jewish - or even just because they thought it wrong, no religious belief needed? Would there be any expectation that they should be permitted to avoid doing a part of their job?
_________
Just saw an update that she will stay in jail till Kentucky changes the law so county clerks don't have to issue marriage licenses. Which would be easier - the state to change the law, or the county to impeach her?
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 34
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/5/2015 12:15:40 PM

If she had to take an oath to God to get her job, wouldn't her religious views have some merit?

No... because that isn't the "operative elements" of the oath... It is simply the affirmation of the intent... to carry out the "operational elements"... which is to do her job according to the law...

It can just as easily be replaced by... "I do solemnly affirm"... or... "So I do swear"... or a similar affirmation... because it is only an affirmation...
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 35
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/5/2015 12:24:37 PM

If she had to take an oath to God to get her job, wouldn't her religious views have some merit?



"I do solemnly swear (or affirm, as the case may be) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of this Commonwealth, and be faithful and true to the Commonwealth of Kentucky so long as I continue a citizen thereof, and that I will faithfully execute, to the best of my ability, the office of _______ according to law; and I do further solemnly swear (or affirm) that since the adoption of the present Constitution, I, being a citizen of this State, have not fought a duel with deadly weapons within this State nor out of it, nor have I sent or accepted a challenge to fight a duel with deadly weapons, nor have I acted as second in carrying a challenge, nor aided or assisted any person thus offending, so help me God."


The way I read the oath Ms. Davis took is that she pledged to God to execute the duties of her office. I do not read the oath as an oath to God. Somewhat like when someone swears upon the bible the truthfulness of their words. Ms. Davis has taken an oath to preform the duties of her job to the best of her ability and pledged to God that she would, and she has broken that pledge to God to do so.
 SheldonCooper02
Joined: 5/8/2015
Msg: 36
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/5/2015 12:57:44 PM
I don't think this two people, 2 gays or 2 lesbians I don't need to read the whole story,
have marriage as their main goal.

If I'm starving and go to a restaurant, and the restaurant manager says, " We won't
serve you, you look foreign". I'll immediately leave for the next restaurant
without picking a fight with the low life manager and wasting time.
Because food and calming the stomach is my main goal.

I don't know why this 2 people didn't go to another city/town where clerks offer
that piece of paper they were dying for. Stirring up a controversy seems to be the goal. Not sure if this lifestyle
causes low self esteem in people or not.

What do you expect when 9 clowns decide for 330 millions.

My 2 cents.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 37
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/5/2015 1:40:13 PM

I don't know why this 2 people didn't go to another city/town where clerks offer
that piece of paper they were dying for.

Ummm... perhaps because... by law they shouldn't have to...? Perhaps it is because... by law... access to gov't services... which a licence is... are supposed to be non-discriminatory...? Perhaps because the clerk... doesn't have the right... to place her beliefs above the law... in that role...? Maybe...?
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 38
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/5/2015 2:35:11 PM
""""I think that "gay people" should be allowed access to the same meaningless rituals which are available to "straight people"."""""

This is typical of what I have observed. - That people who are adamantly ( using bad language often ) in support of homosexual marriage find little value in marriage in general.

By the way, I read that there is draft legislation ( STATE legislation) to remove the necessity of the signature of the County Clerk so that anyone in the office can issue the license which then does not prevent people like Davis from running for County Clerk.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 39
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/6/2015 5:26:03 AM

It was the liberal progressives that changed the definition of marriage


Of course, when liberal progressives changed the definition of marriage to include interracial marriage, that was wrong too.


which in turn put Davis between a rock and a hard place.


If she was incapable of performing her duties as a government official due to her religious beliefs then she should have resigned from her job-instead she's used her job as a bully pulpit to advance her religious believes-which in her personal life is just fine, but not as a government official.


Her rights to not be a participant of a degenerate court's ruling


I find it pretty peculiar that those who flaunt the constitution to suit their agenda, pick and chose what constitutional rights suit their purpose, and those constitutional rights that conflict with their agenda they declare invalid. The SCOTUS has said gay marriage is a protected constitutional right...don't like it? vote in the politicians that, create a 3/4's majority that supports your opinions, and have them amend the constitution.


Her rights to not be a participant of a degenerate court's ruling is of course subjected to the penalties from said ruling body which leaves her defenseless in a secular based society.


A law suit was brought against Ms. Davis for denying a gay couples right to marriage, the courts sided with the plaintiffs, and Ms. Davis then ignored the court ruling....she was found in contempt, ordered to comply with the court ruling, and again declined to follow the direction of the court, found in contempt, and jailed...she has had due process and is currently suffering the consequences of denying the ruling of the court and subsequent direction of the court.


Those who preach tolerance aren't being very tolerant of Davis.


As a crude analogy, let me pose the following scenario:

If someone decides they wish to punch you in the face, it would be intolerant of you not to let them?


Secularism needs to be recognized as a religion.


Keeping religion out of government needs to become a religion in and of itself? What an odd notion.

I wonder if we would be having this discussion were Ms. Davis a Muslim?
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 40
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/6/2015 5:26:07 AM

""""I think that "gay people" should be allowed access to the same meaningless rituals which are available to "straight people"."""""

This is typical of what I have observed. - That people who are adamantly ( using bad language often ) in support of homosexual marriage find little value in marriage in general.


Clearly the ("gay") people who want the same options as everyone else, DO "value" the institution of marriage, and this is after all, ALL about equality.
It's about what THEY want.
So what I think about the ritual is entirely irrelevant.

I've no wish to drag this thread 'off-topic', but yes, IMO it is a meaningless ritual, for the following reasons:

1/. Humans have managed to survive, and breed, and to populate almost the entire planet, quite successfully, for about 6 million years, before the inventions of any "gods" and "marriage".

2/. "Marriage vows" promise to "remain faithful", and to "love each other", "'til death do us part". (It used to be "to honour and obey" too, but they've dropped that bit.)
Do people actually keep those "promises"??
Does anything (bad) happen to them, if they don't? (Apart from divorce)
It's just some words. "Words are cheap", as they say.

3/. IMO "marriage" was "invented" during less enlightened times, as a form of "ownership" and control of the females.
Don't forget that this was before the advent of "paternity tests", when fears about paternity couldn't be checked. The only way to make sure was to eliminate all possibilities for infidelity.
That's why there's such an obsession with "virgins" in religions, and why they're all so patriarchal.
(Until quite recently, there were official court "observers" , in the bedrooms of monarchs, to act as "witnesses" of the act of copulation by English Kings, to ensure the "legitimacy" of any offspring. )

4/. I do fully "get" that marriage is a legally recognised status.
It used to be that you could only get married via a religious ritual.
Then they changed it to allow 'civil ceremonies', conducted in appropriately "licensed premises", by appropriately licensed secular "registrars". (Here, in the UK)

So what "religious" people think is no longer relevant.
Marriages no longer require such religious "blessings".
It's a legal, secular registration.
Religions should just 'butt-out', it's none of their business what other people choose to do.

I never bothered with it myself, (marriage) but nonetheless, managed a 27 year relationship, (longer than many "marriages"!). When our relationship ended, I didn't need a lawyer.

My eldest son has just announced his engagement to be married, to a lovely lady, and I'm very happy for him.
It's about what it "means" to the people involved , not about what it "means" to me.

Given my views on the (meaningless IMO) ritual, I don't think I could accurately be described as "adamantly in support" of gay marriage.
It's just about equality.

ETA
(I actually swear a whole lot more than this, 'in real life'.
It doesn't correlate at all with my strength of feelings about any subject.

I didn't think the word "shit" was considered to be a swear word these days.
Sorry if you found it offensive, there was no offense intended.
It's just that when I type, "shit" happens.)
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 41
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/6/2015 7:19:10 AM
Jerome's law, once again.
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a liberal making a comparison involving black people or the black civil rights movement approaches 1— that is, if an online discussion goes on long enough, sooner or later a liberal will compare someone or something to being black or the black civil rights movement"

The definition of marriage wasn't changed with respect to interracial marriage. It was a man and woman. The RACE ( what they are BORN) was the issue. They were still a man and woman.

And when Davis having children out of wedlock or multiple marriages leads to demands that religious institutions change their tenets to applaud rather than repent those behavior choices or to someone losing a job, CEO-chairman-ship, or closing small businesses (florists, photography studios, event location rentals, bakeries) or someone going to jail, there can then be a valid comparison.

Message 41. Thanks for confirming my observations.

Cherry - She is right where she wants to be.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 42
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/6/2015 7:19:28 AM
double post
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 43
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/6/2015 8:03:35 AM

We could discuss this but I already know you are incapable of acknowledging differences without assigning superiority.


I'm sure you think this would be a discussion of apples and pears, but I think it's a discussion of inequality. Pretty much like Dee assssumed I was speaking about blacks and that the definition of marriage was changed, yet, it was "one drop" that defined a gross inequality and the inequality of illegal interracial marriage that was rectified.

When marriage was established its' creation was to insure lineage and a woman was the property of her husband. In America,since the 1600's, one must obtain a marriage license to be legally married. What is this license but a contract between two people? In today's world if the contract is dissolved then there is a property remedy. The assumption of radical evangelicals is that contract may only be entered into by one man and one woman. And that may be true in their church. But, as decided by the SCOTUS, legally, that contract may be created by 1 man and 1 woman, 1 man and 1 man, or 1 woman and 1 woman. There are certain contractual rights enjoyed by these people, and equitable property remedies enjoyed if the contract is dissolved.


My perception is she is probably feeling quite torn inside.


Ms Davis didn't look torn in the videos showing her denying people of their constitutional rights. She looked very untorn. And angry.


The constitution itself doesn't need to be rewritten, only properly interpreted.


According the majority of the court it has been...in a way that has been recognized as the law of the land since the inception of this nation.


Which court should they appear before to decide the legality of their actions?


The court of legislative opinion and action. If you don't like the constitution as interpreted by the court, vote in a 3/4's majority and amend the constitution to reflect your views. It's the way we do things in the U.S.


I guess Dr. Phil sees the woman as the weaker gender


Are you denying that females are not the biologically physically weaker gender?


Dr. Phil him telling a man there is no reason under the sun for a man to ever hit a woman even if that woman is beating on him. Take the high road, walk out the door instead.


Personally, I disdain all physical conflict and would walk away from all physical fights if at all possible.


A Muslim living in America doing just what Davis did? Yeah, same discussion


For you the discussion might be the same, but for those other radical evangelicals, I think not.


Thanks for confirming my observations.


It is telling that one antidotal comment cements your opinions.


She is an adulterer.


Well, then there is that.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 44
view profile
History
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/6/2015 10:07:01 AM
Davis should keep her religious based bigotry to herself and if she cannot she should resign or in the least appoint someone to do what she personally will not because she feels it is against her morals or beliefs. She should take this up with her employer to allow for this, not tramp on others rights. Her contract could include an exit from duties via a conscientious objector clause but since it doesn't now, she should either quit or ask her god to forgive her while she performs her duties while she works to add this clause to her contract.

Should she not been able to get her marriage licenses after her first? Can you say hypocrite?

I believe there should be room in our job descriptions to decline duties we feel are immoral, unjust, violent, etc. and she should be able to decline such duties without fear of getting fired or jailed. She and others could work for conscientious objector clauses in their contracts.

She should not have the right to stop anyone from obtaining a marriage license though and if she tries (and she has) she should be let go for breaking her agreement to do her duties and overstepping her position.

Jailing her is not the best answer but when someone like her tries to control others ...they risk being controlled themselves.

(Dee, I think Dr. Phil would suggest walking away from ANY fight).
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 45
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/6/2015 10:16:50 AM

It is so easy for us to be armchair judges and quip she should resign or be impeached, yet in this economy not many of us can so readily give up our place of employment.

Funny isn't it...

THAT is the exact same line... right-wingers give... when liberals talk about "living wages"... discrimination in the workplace... AND... the same response they get back...

Odd how it isn't a "good argument" when opponents use it... but perfectly correct otherwise...

I find it pretty peculiar that those who flaunt the constitution to suit their agenda, pick and chose what constitutional rights suit their purpose, and those constitutional rights that conflict with their agenda they declare invalid.

Funny how that works... fixed, unalterable and prescient when it suits... and not, when it doesn't...

A law suit was brought against Ms. Davis for denying a gay couples right to marriage, the courts sided with the plaintiffs, and Ms. Davis then ignored the court ruling....she was found in contempt, ordered to comply with the court ruling, and again declined to follow the direction of the court, found in contempt, and jailed...she has had due process and is currently suffering the consequences of denying the ruling of the court and subsequent direction of the court.

And to think... when all this started... she was claiming to be devoted to the Constitution and "Rule of Law"... Now that it has gone against her... not so much it seems...

More of that "playing both sides of the fence"....

I wonder if we would be having this discussion were Ms. Davis a Muslim?

I suspect that the crowds... cheering her on... would be shouting "No Sharia" until their lungs bled...

Would this be another case of... "both sides of the fence"...?
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 46
view profile
History
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/6/2015 11:57:43 AM
Given her history and now this extreme Tea Party attempt at stomping for the lord rationale, I think she's gone over the edge. I have no problem with her being in jail, she's purposely made a stand, let her stand on it. I think she's refused to do her job, saying she cannot do her job because she's a bigot, and so she should be replaced, and not by one of her relatives waiting in line to do the same thing.
 vatives
Joined: 9/2/2015
Msg: 47
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/6/2015 12:13:00 PM
The media will grow tired of her story and she will slink out of jail. Agree or not with her position on marriage, she is a repugnant woman who, much like the toxic soup of thought controllers on this board, like to think they are right and therefore can ignore the law of the land. Dumb as rock she is. But she is having her fifteen minutes of fame, which is what she wanted.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 48
view profile
History
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/6/2015 12:38:03 PM
From what I can see, the following is true:

* Whether she is a hypocrite about her religious convictions is not at issue, either in her situation vis-a-vis imprisonment for contempt of court, or for the stated scope of this thread discussing same.

* Whether she is an adulteress or not has nothing to do with either concern.

* What ANY of her religious beliefs may or may not be, have nothing to do with this.

This all comes down to what the applicable laws are, and whether or not they are being carried out.

She refused, and CONTINUES TO REFUSE, to obey a lawful court order to perform her legally specified elected duties.

The court has as a remedy for contempt, to jail the person who is IN contempt. This is the long standing correct and legal procedure for the court to follow. It is not even remotely a willful action to overstep it's legal bounds.

The court is NOT legally empowered either to remove her from office, or to direct that a different process be put in place to see that her job is performed.

At each moment that she refuses to obey the court, she is IN CONTEMPT ANEW. Therefore, this isn't a situation where she was in contempt on Tuesday, and then was not in contempt on Wednesday. This is why it is not valid to suggest that she should be allowed to leave jail after paying bail, as one might for a different, one-time kind of accused crime. She is ACTIVELY AND AVOWEDLY COMMITTING HER CRIME AT EVERY MOMENT. Therefore it is correct for the court to continue to follow the normal legal due process, and keep her where she insists on remaining. This is exactly what has happened to others who have defied court orders and been found in contempt.
 SunshineGirl__
Joined: 10/7/2014
Msg: 49
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/6/2015 1:22:59 PM
What will come out of all this is her appearing on Bill O’Reilly, decrying the war on Christians; maybe a self-published, ghost-written book; fifteen minutes of “fame,” and profiting from behaving like a hypocritical bigot.

The longer she chooses to sit in jail the more she’ll be martyred.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 50
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/6/2015 1:23:35 PM
Seeing as Jesus had nary a word to say about homosexuality (and he was living in the Greek part of the Roman Empire. Picture the Castro. Now picture it extending as far as you can travel in a fortnight.), but he was very much against divorce, I'd say that this woman isn't a Christian.

As Dylan said, you've got to serve somebody. And she ain't servin' the Lord.
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail