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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail      Home login  
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 congupnaroad
Joined: 7/22/2015
Msg: 76
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Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in JailPage 4 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

as far as she is concerned, she won. a few days in jail worked in her favor.

a federal judge changed state law by making the licenses valid without the signature of the county clerk.

why gay 'rights" activist are not satisfied, I would like to know


I don't have much time for religious fanatics, however I do respect their right to believe what they want to believe.

Anyway wasn't that her argument from the start, that if her name was removed from the licences she would issue those licences. Why didn't they just do that from the start?

It is no surprise that because homosexual marriage has only recently been made legal in the US that there wouldn't be teething problems.

It is also no surprise that the claws came out in this thread claiming she should purely be sacked. When indeed there was a workable solution.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 77
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/8/2015 5:04:28 PM
It is also no surprise that the claws came out in this thread claiming she should purely be sacked. When indeed there was a workable solution.
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It's not a solution. A government official can't discriminate against anyone based on his/her personal religious beliefs. She should be impeached.

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why gay 'rights" activist are not satisfied, I would like to know.
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You are so blinded by your own prejudice against gays that you can't grasp the principle involved and/or you are simply incapable of grasping the principle. Allowing someone to refuse to issue marriage licenses to couples who are legally allowed to marry, based on his/her own religious beliefs, means allowing someone to refuse to issue marriage licenses to any couple based on any claimed religious belief. Someone could claim a religious belief against interracial couples or black couples and your own argument would back them in refusing to issue them a license. Furthermore, the government is supposed to protect the religious beliefs of its citizens and in this case, the clerk IS the government. What you are advocating is for citizens to be at the mercy of the government's religion, which is exactly backwards with respect to the first amendment. The government does not have the right to base decisions on religious beliefs.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 78
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/8/2015 5:20:47 PM

Anyway wasn't that her argument from the start, that if her name was removed from the licences she would issue those licences. Why didn't they just do that from the start?


I do believe that Ms. Davis's name is still affixed to the marriage licenses:


Davis' legal team on Monday asked the appeals court for an injunction that would prompt Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear to remove her name from the licenses, something her attorneys say Beshear can do through an executive order....

"We've asked for a simple solution -- get her name and authority off the certificate. The judge could order that," Staver said.


Now it remains to be seen if Ms. Davis violates the courts orders and is returned to jail.
 00Spy
Joined: 4/13/2013
Msg: 79
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/8/2015 7:30:01 PM
Apparently the state legislature would have to pass a law to take the clerks name off the license but they are out till January.
Sounds like some more religious, anti gay, Democrat shenanigan entertainment down home in Kentucky.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 80
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/8/2015 7:41:32 PM
Ted Cruz went to Kentucky to congratulate Ms. Davis but didn't make the news reels...not that he didn't try.

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 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 81
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/8/2015 8:14:41 PM
I wonder: If my photo was of a blonde, would the supposedly non-racist Liberals resort to Jerome's Law so frequently in response to something that I posted? Hmmm. . . .
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 82
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Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/8/2015 9:29:20 PM
Message 83 ...
as far as she is concerned, she won. a few days in jail worked in her favor.
How? The office she worked/works in is issuing licenses to everyone ... even the gays.

a federal judge changed state law by making the licenses valid without the signature of the county clerk.
Really? Exactly what law did the federal judge "change"?

I know this is asking a lot, but you do realize that "deputy" clerks work in the absence of the "elected" clerk? You are aware of that? The "deputy" clerks are authorized to do the work of the clerk ... in the absence of the "elected" clerk. That's the reason they are "deputized". Just as we have "deputy sheriffs" ... they are authorized to do the work of the "elected Sheriff" in the absence of that person. Being "deputized" really does have meaning!

In nursing ... (for example) we have a Director Of Nursing (DON) and then we have an "Assistant Director Of Nursing" (ADON) ... who acts in the absence of the actual DON. Once the DON is back on duty, the ADON is not the person to go to.

When Davis returns to work ... and once again refuses to issue the licenses ... she will go back to jail. And her attorney has assured us that she will not "violate" her conscience. So that pretty much assures us that she will refuse to issue the licenses. If she does that ... she will go back to jail.

why gay 'rights" activist are not satisfied, I would like to know.
It's not about "gay rights activists" ... it's about abiding by the law and the constitution which she took an oath to do. Not just gay rights activists, but lots of other people are interested in "equal rights" for all. That's all this is about.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 83
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/9/2015 3:41:14 AM
Exactly, cotter. She doesn't have to issue them and there is now case law affirming that they need not have her signature as stated in conflicting parts of Kentucky law..

An accommodation for her religious beliefs was made.

Everybody knows that there are deputy clerks. It begs the question: Why jail her?

This story is is not about gay "rights?" Those were not gay "rights" activists protesting, with the rainbow colors and all? Really? Huh..........

90% of her duties have nothing to do with this. Now she will get back to them.
Perhaps some "activist" will insist that SHE sign a same sex marriage license and then it begins again.

Now, if she directs her staff or the deputy not to issue them, many people will abandon her.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 84
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Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/9/2015 6:38:59 AM
Message 83, 90 & 91 ...


((Dee) ... a federal judge changed state law by making the licenses valid without the signature of the county clerk.

(Me) ... Really? Exactly what law did the federal judge "change"?

(Dee)Exactly, cotter. She doesn't have to issue them ...
That's not what I said but you are apparently too dumb to understand what is going on. (I bet you sleep really well at night with ignorance being all that blissful ... eh?)

In the meantime, please tell us who it was that said she doesn't have to do her job? When did that start? Since when doesn't she have to issue marriage licenses to everyone who has the right to have one?

... and there is now case law affirming that they need not have her signature as stated in conflicting parts of Kentucky law..
Please post a link about where we can find that. (We won't be holding our breath.)

An accommodation for her religious beliefs was made.
In what way?

Everybody knows that there are deputy clerks.
Are you really that dumb or just leading us on here? Wait ... I get it ... you're pranking us ... right? That's it ... you're faking being so dumb.

She wasn't doing her job and she wasn't allowing the "deputy clerks" to do their job either. She wasn't allowing them to follow the law. After she went to jail (was gone), they stepped in to do the job she was supposed to be doing all along and they issued marriage licenses according to the law.

She went to jail because she was breaking the law and forcing others to break the law. And if she does that again, she will go back to jail. She has vowed she will not violate her conscience and so far that has landed her in jail. She will no doubt go back to jail.


Perhaps some "activist" will insist that SHE sign a same sex marriage license and then it begins again.
It wasn't just "some activist" that wanted her to do her job ... it really was American citizens expecting equal rights under the law.

Now, if she directs her staff or the deputy not to issue them, many people will abandon her.
And that's probably not true because she has all kinds of people who are just as ignorant as she is who support her breaking the law.

Thankfully we have a judge with a spine who will not be afraid to send her back to jail if she continues to break the law.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 12/25/2014
Msg: 85
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/9/2015 6:53:02 AM
I think the central question is, should the state Legislature pass a law removing clerks' names from the licenses to accommodate Kim Davis's religious convictions?

I feel she has been violating the constitution that mandates separating church and state by using her state powers to enforce her religious convictions.

But an accommodation by removing her name from the license is the pragmatic political solution.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 86
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/9/2015 8:26:58 AM

should the state Legislature pass a law removing clerks' names from the licenses to accommodate Kim Davis's religious convictions?


Since Ms. Davis is refusing to issue any marriage license, same and opposite sex marriages, she is denying the right of anyone to marry. And interesting question arises: "does the constitution guarantee anyone the right to marry?" Is marriage a constitutional right? If it is then Ms. Davis must issue marriage licenses and has no right to religious accommodation, since imposing her rights would place an undue burden on those seeking to marry.

Ms. Davis is currently being granted an accommodated by a federal court ruling that marriage licenses be issued, by deputy clerks, with Ms. Davis's stamped signature on them. This Ms. Davis objects to because affixing her name to the license, in her viewpoint, is endorsing same-sex marriage. And this may become a losing argument, because the government, like other employers, must make a reasonable, least restrictive, religious accommodation. Since the state legislature does not convene for another 4 months a special session would have to be called to accommodate Ms. Davis. It is estimated that calling a special session would cost taxpayers of Kentucky several hundreds of thousands of dollars. Calling a special session of the legislature to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars doesn't sound as reasonable and least restrictive as simply having her name affixed to licenses. In any case a federal judge cannot make a religious accommodation that conflicts with state law. However, state courts may be able to grant Ms. Davis's request to not have her signature affixed to marriage licenses under Kentucky's RFRA (religious freedom rights act) which would not change the law but would grant Ms. Davis a religious accommodation that is allowed under Kentucky RFRA law.

Let's see what instructions Ms. Davis gives her deputy clerks concerning marriage licenses.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 87
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/9/2015 1:02:17 PM
An accommodation for her religious beliefs was made.
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So, If I were a clerk and I said my religious beliefs included women not be allowed to drive, do you really think not allowing you to get license plates would be a religious accommodation? Are you that stupid? The government does not have the right to establish a religion, so a government official cannot discriminate against anyone based on religious beliefs.

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This story is is not about gay "rights?" Those were not gay "rights" activists protesting, with the rainbow colors and all? Really? Huh..........
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Again, your anti gay prejudice and inability to grasp the principle involved is why you think this is just a gay issue. Allowing her to discriminate against gays for religious reasons means allowing anyone else in government to discriminate against any citizen for any reason and disguise it as a religious belief. Where's your anti government rhetoric? You aren't against big government interfering in people's lives. You are absolutely in favor of government interference when it fits your prejudices.

------------
I wonder: If my photo was of a blonde, would the supposedly non-racist Liberals resort to Jerome's Law so frequently in response to something that I posted? Hmmm. . . .
-----------
I assume Jerome's law must have something to do with discrimination against blacks? If so, then perhaps people resort to that as an example because if you aren't smart enough to relate to something that could affect you personally, you couldn't possibly understand a broader abstraction.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 88
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/9/2015 1:15:58 PM

I assume Jerome's law must have something to do with discrimination against blacks?


Nope...what she's doing is calling anyone who is white and disagree's with her POV-Jerome and prescribing their POV Jerome's Law..
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 89
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/9/2015 2:17:24 PM

I assume Jerome's law must have something to do with discrimination against blacks?


I guess Dee will have to enlighten us since Google has never heard of it either.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 90
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be Treated Like Any Liberal?
Posted: 9/9/2015 2:24:25 PM
gosh, this all got answered back on the first page:

1) a Republican's son who is a judge, made a judgement (apparently someone in Kentucky actually does their job). All Republicans and their offspring should march in lockstep, and not question. Except when the Republican doesn't do what we want, THEN its ok to question the decision of a Republican. WE can't be the people who don't understand, b/c then we'd be "liberal". Obviously, it must be the judge who must be temporarily confused. As soon as he does what we want, there will never again be a reason to question him.

2) a government worker is legislating from the bench. That's always a bad thing. Oh, unless its a religious thing. then that's OK. The Founding Fathers were right about everything, except for that separation of Church and State. They were just confused, you see. We know better.

3)Hypocracy is always bad. Rich liberals should not tell poor people how to live. Oh, wait, but if a Republican who doesn't believe in the santity of her own marriages questions the santity of others, somehow that's not hypocracy. That thing in the New Testament about worrying about the sand in someone's eye while ignoring the plank in your own? Well, we can ignore that, b/c we are the self-anointed Christians. Jesus wasn't talking to US, He was talking to you. moron.

4) if a liberal decided to not do their job, in order to stand behind a liberal policy, what would Rush Limbaugh et al tell the Republicans to think? Oh yeah...send the offender off to jail. punish, punish, punish. an eye for an eye. let stupidity be painful.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 91
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/9/2015 3:13:13 PM
I presented the facts. Nothing said is to the contrary. Most of what the recent posts are arguing have nothing to do with what I actually posted. Ad hominem/personal attacks do not amount to much except conceding.

Thank you for that.

Irish is in love with me and I just can't love him back so I know that what he writes in response to what I post is in the anguish of unrequited love.

Jerome's law.
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a liberal making a comparison involving black people or the black civil rights movement approaches 1— that is, if an online discussion goes on long enough, sooner or later a liberal will compare someone or something to being black or the black civil rights movement"

I have seen lots of Republicans question what she did? Do you listen to Rich daily? I don't. Is that what he said?

 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 92
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/9/2015 3:52:18 PM

Jerome's law.


Since no one has compared anything in this thread to the civil rights act or black suffrage we can only surmise that it is you, who has incorrectly cited the use of Jerome's Law, to force the issue towards the civil rights act or black sufrage. And you continually cite instances of" Jerome's Law" when no one has made any comparison to blacks or the civil rights act. Are you a liberal?


Irish is in love with me


Sorry Dee-you are not my type...I tend to go for intellectual women who can string more than 3 words together in a coherent manner. You don't qualify. The reason I comment on your highly inaccurate posts is you're an easy target...



Ad hominem/personal attacks do not amount to much except conceding.


conceding(are you ending a sentence with a verb?)??WTF are you talking about?

Would the following be ad hominem?


Irish is in love with me and I just can't love him back so I know that what he writes in response to what I post is in the anguish of unrequited love.


Complaining about ad hominem attacks and making ad hominem attacks in the same post show a certain lack of intelligence. Add that to the multiple incoherent 10 word posts throughout the threads create the image that Joe often uses...can you guess which one that is...St____ Fv___....fill in the blanks (if you can)

Lets examine some of the statements and claims that are completely wrong:


There is now the muslim flight attendant who refuses to serve alcohol.


Case closed-a reasonable accommodation was made for her.


a federal judge changed state law by making the licenses valid without the signature of the county clerk.


No-not at all...the deputy clerks are using a Kim Davis stamp on licenses.


she did violate a court order. but did the judge have to issue THAT order? Was there authority for the court to issue that order?


ROFLMO


the court decision will be interesting because it will address a PUBLIC OFFICIAL.
does a federal court have the authority to force a state elected official to perform a duty?


Yea, it's called federal preemption.


Now, if she directs her staff or the deputy not to issue them


At least one deputy has said he will comply with the court order and disobey any direction from Ms. Davis not to issue licenses.

Just plain old dumb comments that are just plain old wrong....google before you show how mis-informed you are...you really don't look like anyone who's been within 100 miles of a board room or any graduate courses.


I have seen lots of Republicans question what she did?


Which ones would that be? Bobby Jindal? Mike Huckabee? Ted Cruz? The Donald? Carly? Carson? Paul? Walker? Who? Which GOP hopeful?
 8inscrew
Joined: 11/17/2014
Msg: 93
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/9/2015 4:07:44 PM
Ooops..... you did in #78...... by calling her a dixie democrat.
Something about you not thinking much or something.

Also, dee saying that is not ad hominem.
Sarcasm yes. A personal insult? No.

You brought the ad hominem by referring to her using Joe's favorite phrase.

Why your lack of integrity? Irish?
Noticed it before......

Umm mass murdering American thread.
You said the sandy shooter got his guns legally, yet explained that straw purchases are ILLEGAL.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 94
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/9/2015 4:47:45 PM

Ooops..... you did in #78...... by calling her a dixie democrat.


Gads, another one that makes me interpret what they're talking about. Do you guys ever read what you write...or is conscious string of thought writing your modus operandi?

A dixie democrat never was a liberal...they were conservative democrats which have now become republicans. Other than that I have no idea what you're writing about. Or you're attempting to say I've invoked Jerome's Law....a rather broad stretch at best....in which case I can't see the connection.


dee saying that is not ad hominem.


That's not how I see it...I see it as a personal attack.


Why your lack of integrity?


That I might find Dee's accusing me of being a suiter insulting? If that's so then I lack integrity.


You said the sandy shooter got his guns legally, yet explained that straw purchases are ILLEGAL.


It was a legal straw purchase...the mother bought Lanza the guns. The guns were not for her....to purchase a hand gun-and Lanza's mom bought him hand guns-one must be over the age of 21 in Connecticut. She purchased the guns for another person-thus it was a straw purchase-yet the other person she gave the guns to was her son-thus a gift. It is a legal loophole in gun regulation.

Thanks for the attempted dressing down...glad you're able to keep the discussion on topic.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 95
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/10/2015 1:13:22 AM
Jerome's Law
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a liberal making a comparison involving black people or the black civil rights movement approaches 1— that is, if an online discussion goes on long enough, sooner or later a liberal will compare someone or something to being black or the black civil rights movement"
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So, you are going to try to evade criticism by invoking the race card?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 96
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/10/2015 4:16:14 AM

So, you are going to try to evade criticism by invoking the race card?


It only took her third post to invoke that race card and has used it in nearly every post since. It's sort of like invoking Godwin's law...you lose every discussion you resort to the race card. But, I think she's made up "Jerome's Law" since it's not searchable on the internet, and created it just to invoke the race card.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 97
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/10/2015 11:30:42 AM
what Kim Davis has done is prove that there is no such thing as "Separation of Church and State", the government being an entity "of the people by the people and for the people" is in fact acknowledging and promoting the existence of God once it minted "In God We trust" on all the U.S. Currency and therefore have place itself in the business of encouraging citizens to place their trust in God, so why would the government then toss a citizen in jail once they do place their trust in God ...it can even be argued as being a case of "Entrapment"
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 98
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/10/2015 12:25:19 PM
Well, the government does open casinos to get money and then offer to treat people for gambling addiction.
I will look up the briefs filed. There should be interesting arguments.

As an aside:
A- "insert comment on any subject but race"

B- "How dare you say that as a black person. You should know better"

A- "what does race have to do with this"

B-"why are you playing the race card?"

Budumpdump.cymbal.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 99
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History
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/10/2015 12:41:10 PM
Message 105 ...

So if we use the money, we support the belief in god and mixing it in with the legalities of running our government?
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 100
Should Davis, the Court Clerk, Be in Jail
Posted: 9/10/2015 1:02:06 PM
Well, the government does open casinos to get money and then offer to treat people for gambling addiction.
I will look up the briefs filed. There should be interesting arguments.

As an aside:
A- "insert comment on any subject but race"
---------------
You dragged race into this to evade the issue just like you are trying to do by diverting the subject to gambling.
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