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 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 207
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEISTPage 10 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
@Drink

Don't you realize you are dissing Me, the Almighty, omniscient, omnipotent Creator of everything, by making a false claim to Godhood? Keep that up and I'll see to it you NEVER win big in a lottery, no matter how much you pray!

You wouldn't wanna win anyway. Don't you know that the love of money is the root of all evil? You don't wanna join the banksters in the special place I have reserved for them; and you won't. I happen to know you are nowhere near that evil.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 208
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 9/20/2016 6:13:45 PM
I fear not to diss the great deceiver...the false god, pretending to be me.

Money is not the root of all evil. The pretender is.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 209
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 9/20/2016 7:32:35 PM
Not money, the love of money.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 210
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 9/21/2016 9:01:01 AM
@ Drink

There's only room for One on my throne. I cast the last pretender and his deceiving minions to earth (where they became lawyers & bankers) a long time ago. I've had 7 billion kids, but outside of my #1 son, they're all brats due for a good spanking. Tell ya what though. If you're REALLY good, I might adopt you.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 211
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/8/2016 11:29:56 AM
To Msg 134 on page 6:

"Professor Truscott said that the experiment showed that;
'A future event causes the photon to decide its past.'”

http://www.digitaljournal.com/science/experiment-shows-future-events-decide-what-happens-in-the-past/article/434829

Is this further evidence of a "universal base consciousness?"
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 212
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/8/2016 5:14:49 PM

Is this further evidence of a "universal base consciousness?"


All of matter, or atoms exhibit a rudimentary form of consciousness. Neural networks build upon the previously established complexities of consciousness. Sound waves exhibit a primal form of consciousness. Particles/Waves are the lowest level of consciousness.

The universe is aware of itself. We are aware of the universe, but the universe is more aware of us than we are it. Otherwise you would probably be a super intelligent alien, or a god.

God is probably a super intelligent alien anyway. Welcome to the impossibility of being here, only sometimes do you get the experience that will help you understand it.

You won't find it in science books/articles, you will only find it by searching within yourself.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 213
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/9/2016 4:15:03 AM
I still have a funny feeling that there is a "whole other thing going on" that causes this all to seem so weird and crazy, and framing and interpreting things like we do with spooky action, the particle/wave dilemma, time in the quantum world, etc is just from framing and interpreting it all wrong in the first place due to being unaware of something fundamental that's very different than we currently assume...such that we are at the equivalent of thinking of things in terms of 4 geometric solids for earth, air, fire, and water...and once the paradigm shift hits us on our heads it won't all seem so crazy and nonsensical anymore.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 214
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/9/2016 1:58:12 PM
^^^ Could be. On the other hand, what if this is the paradigm shift and we are being smacked upside the head right now?

What is it about these ideas that makes you want to go in that direction. Is it some kind of bias you can pinpoint? When I think of any kind of negative bias that I have towards such ideas, i find it to be related to religion, like: "Man, if this sh!t turns out to be true, the religious nuts are going to be all over it like stink on doo."

Or, do you feel that you have some logically justifiable reasons for going in this direction? Can you define them well enough to put it in to words? Or, is it something that feels like it is just beyond the reach of the landscape of your mental horizon?
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 215
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/10/2016 1:48:04 AM
Cress, I watched the youtube link in message 134 which I think was cited as empirical evidence in support of your universal base consciousness hypothesis.

There are some major issues I have with it. The work on individuals in close proximity to the machine was interesting and not totally surprising - after all, EEG probes are placed on the scalp but it's not that crazy to go from that to a tiny quantum electric effect on a device sitting in front of you. What I don't like is their subsequent attempt to take it out of the lab and apply it in 'the real world' before having any understanding of what is going on. In any case, their methods and interpretations seemed to be severely flawed.

Selection bias - timing is sometimes wrong (explained away as 'premonition'), it works sometimes for some things and not for other things like sport (explained away as 'not involving compassion').
Lack of control or monitoring of variables - eg electronic interference (note the correlation is strongest at the time of peak electricity use in the evening and lowest at 3am when electricity use is lowest). Also electronic media transmission and use spikes with major events.
Wishful thinking - claim of 'compassion' as a primary factor when it is irrelevant to their original lab results in the 'High, Low' number test.
No proposed mechanism, especially for regional or global effects.

Instead of trying to refine their findings with more careful isolation and control, they diluted it with less isolation and control, and strained to make it fit their preconceptions. Fancy university or not, doing that is not following the scientific method.

The whole thing reminds me of this cautionary tale:
http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-news/microwave-ovens-spark-radio-signals-peryton-05122015/
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 216
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/10/2016 9:35:35 AM
^^^ They didn't use EEG in they're really world experiment. They used a device of their own making called an "egg", which performs a double slight experiment two hundred times a second, resulting in a set of truly randomly generated numbers.

I don't think that the 9/11 example was precognition. there are other explanations for it, like 9/11 was an inside job. But if your a scientist and you come out and say something like that you are going to be systematically destroyed.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 217
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/10/2016 10:10:16 AM
^^^ oops sorry just woke up: really and they're should be real and their, and your in the second paragraph should be you're. I'm really terrible at editing when I'm groggy.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 218
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/10/2016 10:22:59 AM
cress - an example is the particle/wave duality. It's like we have trouble nailing it all down because the particle or wave framing isn't right in the first place. Or as another one...it seems like something goes back in time, but maybe it's just because there's something else that we don't know and we come up with that interpretation just because that's all we can come up with at this time.

Of course, my opinions may always suffer from not knowing enough myself in these areas.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 219
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/10/2016 10:48:33 AM

Lack of control or monitoring of variables - eg electronic interference (note the correlation is strongest at the time of peak electricity use in the evening and lowest at 3am when electricity use is lowest).


If this were so, then we would capture the same results every day.


Also electronic media transmission and use spikes with major events.


Again, EEG was not used in their second experiment.


Selection bias - timing is sometimes wrong (explained away as 'premonition'), it works sometimes for some things and not for other things like sport (explained away as 'not involving compassion').


Its been a while since I viewed the material, so I am not exactly sure what you are referring to. I'll have to give it another look.


Wishful thinking - claim of 'compassion' as a primary factor when it is irrelevant to their original lab results in the 'High, Low' number test.


Once again, I don't remember it being "irrelevant", and that seems like something i'd notice, but then, as I said, it has been a while since I've viewed the material. I'll give it another look and let you know my take on it. Also, with a larger experiment, requiring similar but different parameters, it is not unheard of to reformulate a working hypothesis to fit the new data. Further testing, correlating the information from both experiments, will then be the deciding factor here. Again, it has been a while; I'll have to review.


Instead of trying to refine their findings with more careful isolation and control, they diluted it with less isolation and control, and strained to make it fit their preconceptions. Fancy university or not, doing that is not following the scientific method.


This is not at all what happened. Their method, in the second experiment, did not at all require isolation. This is somehow a miss interpretation of the material on your part.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 220
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/10/2016 11:56:12 PM
Ok, I reviewed. I should have a comprehensive post up some time tomorrow.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 221
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/11/2016 2:03:29 AM

Lack of control or monitoring of variables - eg electronic interference (note the correlation is strongest at the time of peak electricity use in the evening and lowest at 3am when electricity use is lowest).
If this were so, then we would capture the same results every day.

Not at all - look at the peryton example I gave. It works when the dish is pointed at the nearby microwave oven and the door is opened before the cooking stops, but not at other times. Who knows what effect orientation, distance, duration, shielding, etc. would have on these results? Who knows when particular satellites are transmitting overhead or police scanners driving past? Who knows whether it would work in a Faraday cage? This is exactly what I mean when I say they did not do the necessary work to isolate and control, to do science. You don't just say "cool - we've found a correlation... let's go into a pyramid and then pick out random media events to see what other data we can gather that fits our worldview."

The work on individuals in close proximity to the machine was interesting and not totally surprising - after all, EEG probes are placed on the scalp but it's not that crazy to go from that to a tiny quantum electric effect on a device sitting in front of you.
Again, EEG was not used in their second experiment.

Sorry, the word 'but' in my sentence would have been better written as 'so'. I understand that they are not using EEG; I was saying that the conceptual leap from measuring EEGs outside of the cranium to their more slightly more distant measurement of quantum electrical effects on a bench in front of the subject is not necessarily surprising. I would like to know whether the distance between device and subject has any effect on the strength of the correlation - does it diminish in proportion to the inverse square of the distance? Do MRI and CT scanners interfere with the effect, or can we use them to find out which parts of the brain are most strongly correlated with the effect to test ideas of 'compassion' being a significant factor?

Instead of trying to refine their findings with more careful isolation and control, they diluted it with less isolation and control, and strained to make it fit their preconceptions. Fancy university or not, doing that is not following the scientific method.
This is not at all what happened. Their method, in the second experiment, did not at all require isolation. This is somehow a miss interpretation of the material on your part.

I understand the second experiment is supposed to be testing group effects. The problem is, who knows whether such correlations are real when so many variables are uncontrolled and we don't understand what is going on or what external factors are affecting the results? It's a total leap of faith to think we have any idea what those correlations are actually showing.

Ok, I reviewed. I should have a comprehensive post up some time tomorrow.

Sounds interesting. I only watched it once so it's quite possible that I missed/misunderstood some things. And maybe they have addressed some of my concerns elsewhere without covering it in that particular talk.
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 12/8/2016 7:15:03 PM
I don't believe in "atheists."
 ApriLikesrosasblancas
Joined: 11/28/2016
Msg: 223
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 12/15/2016 6:57:00 AM

HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST


Simple, just cut down all the natural (GOD's) resources we have to survive, then put them and LEAVE them ALONE in a distant place in the desert with the resources of SCIENCE, which is what they believe.

Merry Christmas.:).!!
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 224
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Posted: 12/15/2016 10:40:52 AM
That's so funny, because it's a scientific mind which would survive that, whether they're a bit theist or not.
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 12/15/2016 10:52:36 AM
There's no such thing as an "atheist."
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 226
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Posted: 12/15/2016 11:57:18 AM

Simple, just cut down all the natural (GOD's) resources we have to survive

Actually, lol, we're already cutting down much of "God's" natural resources here on earth. The ironic thing is, those in charge of doing it and/or are politically in favor of it tend to be more on the religious ("God's") side. :) They snow their little minions/followers thru political news and such, that they're on God's side in favor of such, and others who say it hurts our planet are just blowing smoke (despite almost all scientists confirming, to one degree or another, yes, it is harming our created planet).

, then put them and LEAVE them ALONE in a distant place in the desert with the resources of SCIENCE, which is what they believe.

If someone has to play MacGuyver, one's certainly not going to open a Bible for a sense of psychological peace to lay to rest -- although one who can't will be more inclined to, sure. We become weak when facing death. But to get out of any survival situation, you use one's logical brain -- science -- the thing that separates us from all other animals, so whatever created us, if it's anything that judges, would want us to do -- and would scorn those who do not use said faculties given to them.

There's no such thing as an "atheist."

Don't know what you mean about that... but atheist (a-theist like a-bacterial) = non-theist. You're saying there's no such thing as someone who's not a theist. A theist is one who holds a conscious Belief that a god or gods exists... a god meaning a supreme ruler of the world/universe. Babies are not born with this belief (nor any religious belief or the ability to understand the concepts to form a belief like that, or about politics, sports, sex, biology, etc). Hence, not holding the belief means they're non-theistic (=atheist).

That aside, you're saying Everyone on earth holds a belief that there is in fact a god or god(s)?
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 227
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 12/15/2016 4:19:03 PM
And I figure aprilroses meant that she thinks that someone in that survival situation would start to cry and beg to god out of desperation and fear.

Some do, some don't. But an atheist probably wouldn't.
 ApriLikesrosasblancas
Joined: 11/28/2016
Msg: 228
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 12/15/2016 8:16:08 PM

But an atheist probably wouldn't.


Oh Please Drink, rolling my eyes at you.!!

Merry Christmas.!!
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 229
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Posted: 12/16/2016 4:34:06 AM
Yea, you keep rolling those eyes, while I get some shelter, water, and food together so that we can survive. Keep sitting on your butt and you might not get any dinner after I've prepared it. Might not get a place in the shelter either...you're sleeping outside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtU5V1b5tGc

Keep up with this show, and see how many people get converted or start begging for god.

http://www.history.com/shows/alone/season-3/episode-1/alone-season-3-preview
 platypus_man
Joined: 8/29/2007
Msg: 230
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 12/18/2016 4:38:51 AM

HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST

Oh, that's simple. Have the deity come and explain itself. Until that happens, we must assume it's a myth.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 231
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 12/18/2016 7:59:24 AM

HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST

send out a memo that all the religious employees get the Christmas Holidays off with pay
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