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 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 51
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEISTPage 3 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

Very simple. Put a space between the initial A and T, like this, ATHEIST becomes A THEIST.

Physically this is equivalent to removing the brain so there is space between the cranial cavity and the body.

LOL. Nice. Of course, answering a different question than the OP's -- "What is an 'atheist'?", your answer is applicable, too:

"a-theist", separating the a & t. A = "non". Like "abacterial" or "asymmetrical".

Atheist=non-theist. This is not a definition by popular demand, but by the English language, which makes fully demonizing the word hard to do in any Honest way

Anti-theist = a type of non-theist (atheist). This is the definition many will use to demonize one who's atheistic. When they deal with someone who's clearly just not religious/theistic, the emotional card trick (that fails logistically, but that never stops an evangelical) is to tell that relatively innocent person who's not theistic that they are STILL atheistic because they're non-theistic -- and atheist means anti-theist so you're against what I believe! You're the bad guy! Why are you so bad?! ;)
 denialism
Joined: 9/26/2015
Msg: 52
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/7/2015 7:00:49 PM
I think an atheist wants to be demonized in much the same way a theist wants to be persecuted. It justifies the righteousness of their belief or disbelief in a god and their ardent pursuit of evidence for or against it.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 53
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/7/2015 8:51:23 PM

I think an atheist wants to be demonized in much the same way a theist wants to be persecuted. It justifies the righteousness of their belief or disbelief in a god and their ardent pursuit of evidence for or against it.

I wouldn't say that. That way too broadly categorizes/stereotypes something on such a broad definition for each. Not every theist is a bible-thumper who wants to be persecuted to give drama/strength/foundation/purpose to their beliefs. Not every atheist (non-theist) is an anti-theist who wants to be demonized as the bad guy with this 'different' view to give drama/strength/foundation/purpose to their beliefs.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 54
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/11/2015 11:04:20 AM

HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST

stick them in a foxhole


Posted by: denialism
I think an atheist wants to be demonized in much the same way a theist wants to be persecuted.

that pretty much sums it up...Atheists are generally Ex-Theists...and both groups are generally Agnostic Sleeper Cells
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 55
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/11/2015 1:33:02 PM

stick them in a foxhole

Actually, one ex-football player who died in Iraq was an atheist. Sticking someone in a foxhole may make one teetering on the notion of a God believing in it, just as one who's passively theistic become more actively theistic in their own minds. Certainly it can make a non-theist HOPE there "is a god", sure. I guess any facing-death situation can help turn someone toward their religion or increase the odds of them becoming more a 'believer'. Doesn't say anything for accuracy though, but more about human emotion.


I think an atheist wants to be demonized in much the same way a theist wants to be persecuted.
that pretty much sums it up...

I disagree (as seen by my prev post). That's more of a cartoonish way of labeling theists as bible-thumpers, or non-theists as active anti-theists. Sad, inaccurate stereotyping.

Atheists are generally Ex-Theists...

Yeah, if you count childhood, etc. Many non-theists are. Doesn't really say/mean much... just a reflection of society, sure. Everyone's born non-theist just as much they're born non college football fans.

and both groups are generally Agnostic Sleeper Cells

Most atheists (non-theists) are agnostic. Agnosticism is the position that it's impossible to know if there's a god of any kind or not. Hence, the most popular result of that is not being theistic. Atheist = non-thiest, that's it. It doesn't mean actively anti-theistic. BUT, in society upheld by active religious groups over the years, demonize not being theistic where they want to not just change the definition of a word (atheist), but change the English language in order to. But hey, facts schmacks. It's all in the good name of Hey-Zeus! ;)
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 56
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/13/2015 7:12:15 AM

Posted By: norwegianguy456
Sticking someone in a foxhole may make one teetering on the notion of a God believing in it,

it works both ways..it you can't find an Atheist in a foxhole then you wouldn't find a theist in a doctor's office, it is the Lord almighty that heals and anything else would be the work of Satan


I disagree (as seen by my prev post). That's more of a cartoonish way of labeling theists as bible-thumpers, or non-theists as active anti-theists. Sad, inaccurate stereotyping.

Theists are bible thumpers or they would be Heretics


Yeah, if you count childhood, etc. Many non-theists are. Doesn't really say/mean much... just a reflection of society, sure. Everyone's born non-theist just as much they're born non college football fans.

the motto of the church and tobacco companies are "get them while they are young and you have them for life", and this is why when one claim that they no longer believe in God but yet refer to themselves as an Atheist is still playing the same game but on the opposite side and use the title of Atheist to be demonized by those that do believe and in turn persecute them for believing


Most atheists (non-theists) are agnostic. Agnosticism is the position that it's impossible to know if there's a god of any kind or not.

it's also impossible to know or not if there is a Santa Claus with a flying reindeer that has a bright red nose,

Atheist is an agnostic that lost their faith,.... Theists are agnostics that have faith
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 57
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/13/2015 3:51:38 PM

it works both ways..it you can't find an Atheist in a foxhole then you wouldn't find a theist in a doctor's office, it is the Lord almighty that heals and anything else would be the work of Satan

True. You'll find theist & non-theist people everywhere. Nobody's going to convert to theism or non-theism from the reverse just because. Some may become more naturalistic if they're of a bible-thumping/literalist upbringing when going to the doc's office and facing some real important life-altering things (wakeup call), and some may become more dreamy about an after life if they're facing death when they're non-theistic. Point is, each situation isn't a given by any means to truly 'change' anyone. At the end of the day, it has weak results.

Theists are bible thumpers or they would be Heretics

I disagree. Most theists aren't bible thumpers. They just believe there "is a God". Many aren't all that Xian, but may generally refer to it from a cultural standpoint. To be a theist, one doesn't even have to be religious. Just a belief that there is a god. Technically, one doesn't even have to believe in an afterlife, although an afterlife is a main motivator to believe in it (because we don't want to die).

this is why when one claim that they no longer believe in God but yet refer to themselves as an Atheist is still playing the same game but on the opposite side and use the title of Atheist to be demonized by those that do believe and in turn persecute them for believing

I disagree. Again, atheist doesn't mean anti-theist. Most atheists, going by the Actual core definition that one can't change, but only add Alternative definitions, actually just means non-theist. Like a newborn baby. A=Non, not Anti. One either is a non-theist or a theist (or a mixture of contradicting thoughts/beliefs). An anti-theist is just a subset of a mere non-theist/atheist.

it's also impossible to know or not if there is a Santa Claus with a flying reindeer that has a bright red nose,

Sure, it is possible to know whether there's a Santa Claus or not. It's not beyond the knowledge of ability to find out. Being agnostic means it's impossible to ever be able to actually know... not merely "It's impossible for me to have a solid conclusion right now because I never cared/looked/investigated."

Atheist is an agnostic that lost their faith

An atheist/non-theist many times is agnostic -- believing one can't know if any gods exist based on how they see the universe and what's been presented, etc. But not all atheists are agnostic. Some are non-theist because of more than that -- they believe that no god in fact does exist. They are in the minority of atheists.

Theists are agnostics that have faith

I would say underneath it all there are some theists who are Technically Technically agnostic, but then again, that depends on how technical you want to define agnosticism. Agnosticism means without-knowledge. But Thomas H Huxley who coined the term said that it's a Lack of belief DUE to the belief of it being unknowable. An "I can't know, thus I don't know" position. If you want to only count the first part of "I can't know", then you can add theists to it -- although one would call them "weak theists". That when asked if God exists they say "I can't know if a god exists or not, as it lacks evidence and always will... but I believe there is." But not all theists have that weaker position.

However, yes, most non-theists will have that weaker position -- although they aren't necessarily agnostic. They don't necessarily think the existence of a god is Unknowable in concept, but at least hasn't been shown, nor should be clung onto until sufficient evidence of existence has shown through. Until then, no, I just don't carry the belief in the existence of one. Not saying it's totally impossible in some form; I'll discount a particular God out of a mythical book -- just one more than the next guy does. Until I get at least enough evidence to make a Reasonable step of faith, sorry, can't.

Where the agnostic non-theist would say much the same except it'd be riding on "It's impossible for me or you TO know if it's true or not, so therefore I withhold a belief that it is true." The other non-theist says it COULD be possible to know, but... (crickets chirp)... nothing coming forward yet, and probably not knowable in this lifetime as mere humans. I guess it all depends on how refined you want to define agnostic.
 prairiefire60
Joined: 10/10/2015
Msg: 58
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/13/2015 3:59:10 PM
I'm wondering why anyone would want to turn anyone into anything. I know the religious folks think it is their mission to go around the entire world and turn who ever into a Christian ... but why? Odd, I don't see atheists banging on my door trying to convert people like the JW's and Mormons do.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 59
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 10/15/2015 12:21:48 PM

Posted By: norwegianguy456
I disagree. Most theists aren't bible thumpers. They just believe there "is a God".

you're describing Deists, Pagans or Spiritualists which believe in a God but claim they are not religious ...but Theists believe in only "one God" that governs which is why they are Bible Thumpers

but either way whether one is theist, deist, spiritual etc... it's impossible to claim a belief in God and not be religious


I disagree. Again, atheist doesn't mean anti-theist.

in the eyes of the faithful if you're not for Christ then you're against Christ which makes you Anti-Christ



Sure, it is possible to know whether there's a Santa Claus or not. It's not beyond the knowledge of ability to find out.

explain the first steps one would go about proving that Santa exist ... would it entail going to the North Pole to interview little elves?


Being agnostic means it's impossible to ever be able to actually know...

once one start claiming they don't know if God exist or not..they become in the eyes of the Faithful an Atheist, which is why Agnostics are Atheists that lack Faith
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 60
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 11/16/2015 2:37:58 PM
Why would you want to do that?

I am personally a Theist, but I believe organized religion has done as much damage to the world than good. Organized religion was created to control the masses, the means of production. There religions evolved based on what type of society they were. For instance, societies of hunters and gatherers were based on nature, the female and fertility images. Then there were the Hurder societies, that glorified violence, hero that went into battle, hero worship. Then there were the agricultural religions, based on a totally omnicient being, like the pharow god. When these societies intermixed the different ideologies moved from one group to the other.

I also have read that the way many Atheist approach their convictions are similar than a religion. You have for instance the age of enlightenment, where we moved our beliefs to be secular and have faith in Nationalism, naturalism, even Darwinism, socialism, communism. Yet that type of thinking gave us the twentieth century and levels of depravity never reached before by men.

So now we are moving again towards a preponderance of religious beliefs, and the old divisions. Christianity vs Islam.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 61
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 11/16/2015 3:12:30 PM

you're describing Deists, Pagans or Spiritualists which believe in a God but claim they are not religious

A theist does not = religious. Yes, I described one who's Deist. My side comment was that most Xians are pretty much Diest. A Diest is a type of theist. All theist means is someone who believes there's a God or Gods. That's it. They can hate God, love God, treat God like a nobody. Doesn't matter. It's about what they believe Exists, that's it.

Theists believe in only "one God"

That's a mono-theist. A type of theist that you describe.

but either way whether one is theist, deist, spiritual etc... it's impossible to claim a belief in God and not be religious

Not true. In fact, you can be religious but Not believe in any god or gods (see many Buddhists). You're riding off false re-definitions... assumptions by common folk as what we're brought up to believe are definitions and such. It's actually not that hard to look it all up.


Again, atheist doesn't mean anti-theist.
in the eyes of the faithful if you're not for Christ then you're against Christ which makes you Anti-Christ

Which is an idiotic attempt at logic, if/when one believes that. And also -- no, not all Xians believe that silly statement either. That'd be insulting to Xianity as a whole. That's what some super-fundamentalists believe.

explain the first steps one would go about proving that Santa exist ... would it entail going to the North Pole to interview little elves?

Satellite images of the north pole. Nothing's been found there. With that, combined with the fact that it shatters the laws of (God's) nature to deliver Xmas presents around the world in one night (riding on reindeer too). So, it's proven wrong. Are there exceptions? Oh oh, maybe right? Well, here's the bad news to those living in illogical dream world for Santa (and other things)... they have the burden of proof to show that there is Santa to how they construct what Santa is, lives, etc. His existence is proven false. He's an alleged entity living at the north pole. He ain't there, nor is it possible nor any observance (god knows every kid has looked out for eons for him).


Being agnostic means it's impossible to ever be able to actually know...
once one start claiming they don't know if God exist or not..they become in the eyes of the Faithful an Atheist, which is why Agnostics are Atheists that lack Faith

Yes, most agnostic are non-theistic (atheist), because they don't hold the position that a god(s) exists. TECHNICALLY you could say a certain type of agnostic is theistic -- they believe it's impossible to actually know if god exists or not, but they still believe it. Agnosticism is about Knowing, Theism is about Believing. In general, we forgo the technicality, as far too many theists would be agnostic... so we tend to go by the basic definition that it's one who is "on hold" in their belief Because they believe it's Impossible to know if a god exists or not.
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 11/16/2015 4:20:44 PM
Man, you guys are way off. Sure been a lot of b.s. talk in here lately.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 63
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 11/17/2015 5:33:18 AM

Posted By: norwegianguy456
A theist does not = religious. Yes, I described one who's Deist. My side comment was that most Xians are pretty much Diest.

Christians are not Deist ...
Christians: believe in one God that "rule all" and they "supposedly" follow the bible
Trinity Followers: are not consider "Theist" because they follow three Gods and "supposedly" follow the bible
Deist: claim to be spiritual and not follow the bible, but that's impossible because they follow the ten commandments
and that is why it's impossible to believe in God and not be religious


Posted By: norwegianguy456
Not true. In fact, you can be religious but Not believe in any god or gods (see many Buddhists). You're riding off false re-definitions

Buddhism is a philosophy not a religion
Religion constitute the laws handed down by a Supernatural Entity
Philosophy constitute the teachings handed down by Man


Posted By: norwegianguy456
Which is an idiotic attempt at logic, if/when one believes that. And also -- no, not all Xians believe that silly statement either. That'd be insulting to Xianity as a whole. That's what some super-fundamentalists believe.

your mistake is you keep trying to turn Jesus into God ....being against God or not believing in God would "according to the belief" make one Atheist or Anti-theist .....but Jesus was not God which is why it is not about being against God but everything to do with being against Christ and thus doing the work of Satan.....this is why if you're against Christ you're AntiChrist


Satellite images of the north pole. Nothing's been found there.

Satan and his little elves could be living in an iceberg or below in an ice cavern ..which only mean that Santa could exist yet the Satellites fail to find him ....so do you have any other suggestions as to how we can prove the existence of Santa ...perhaps search for a reindeer with a Red Nose so bright that it can guide Santa's sleigh at night


they believe it's impossible to actually know if god exists or not, but they still believe it. Agnosticism is about Knowing

that statement is a contradiction ...how can you claim that it's "Agnostically Impossible" to know but yet Agnosticism is about Knowing ...this is why Agnosticism is based in Faith and why they are sleeper cell bible thumpers ..they even have Churches


Posted By:drinkthesunwithmyface
Man, you guys are way off. Sure been a lot of b.s. talk in here lately.

you whine more than an Ex-girlfriend
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 11/17/2015 3:59:58 PM
Ok, I'm starting to lose track of who holds what opinion about god and what religion is.


it's impossible to claim a belief in God and not be religious

It is my opinion that having a belief in god is one thing that is definitive of being religious. Something like believing in god...is being religious.


...deist...One who acknowledges the existence of a God upon the testimony of reason, but rejects revealed religion...

My idea of what religion is, is whenever someone is being careless with their reasoning. Dogmatic. Gnostic revelation just one form of this carelessness. Conjuring up reasoning to support a belief, instead of letting reasoning be objective and impartial.

Also...I thought that the difference between deism and theism was that deism is believing that there's some kind of god, but stopping there and going no further. Whereas theism is quantifying things about that god to some extent or another.

you can be religious but Not believe in any god or gods (see many Buddhists)

True. But I'd hesitate to call Buddhism a religion, depending on what buddhism we're talking about.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 67
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 11/18/2015 5:42:17 AM


it's impossible to claim a belief in God and not be religious

It is my opinion that having a belief in god is one thing that is definitive of being religious. Something like believing in god...is being religious.

whether one has a belief in God or believe in God both requires Faith ....in that example having Faith is what makes you religious because Faith applies to nothing else other than God
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 68
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 11/18/2015 8:57:39 AM

Posted By: andyaa
Belief in God makes you religious, now faith makes you religious, you're all over the place mate!

I'm Omnipresent


Believing in a deity without or need for evidence requires faith. Nothing to do with religion.

a belief in a deity is a belief in their commandments....and that makes you religious


You can also have faith in your chosen religion

not Faith due to the religion...but Faith in the deity that handed down the religion


You know there are dictionaries available rather than struggling with opinion here.

opinions is what debating is all about.. .you need to break your addiction to "Google Cut and Paste" for other sources
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 69
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 11/18/2015 9:25:13 AM

Deism is the belief in a creator, who made the world but does not take a personal interest in it -- doesn't require worship, answer prayers, judge behavior, or necessarily promise a life after death (unless that was part of the original creation). Deism is a fairly benign belief, because there are no consequences for accepting or rejecting it.

This is a good definition just explaining Deism.

Theism is the belief in an active, interventionist god who not only created the world

Not necessarily, no. Theism's Extremely Basic. It's just a belief in the existence of a god or gods. That's it. Deism is a sub-set of theism. It doesn't have to imply being religious or a god or god(s) that are interactive/intervening. It's very broad-based and basic -- just a belief that one exists and that's it.

Atheism is the absence of belief in any gods. It is not a belief system and it is not a religion.

Very true. But a-theism just means "non-theism". A=non/not. It's what theism is Not. That's it. If one is not a theist, they are a non-theist (atheist). It's a B&W either-or situation. Every other category out there falls into one or the other.

Agnosticism is formal uncertainty about the existence or nonexistence of god(s). The agnostic asserts it is impossible to prove existence or nonexistence.

Agnostics by the strict definition do have a certainty -- that it's impossible to Know if any gods exist. Agnosticism is about Knowing -- that one Cannot Know, while theism is about believing.

Theists sometimes try to tell atheists that because they cannot prove god(s) don't exist, they are agnostics. This is not true. An atheist has no belief in god(s)

But most agnostics have no belief that any god(s) exist -- because they believe it's impossible to Know if they exist or not.... hence a lack of belief. If you believe it cannot be known whether any gods exist or not, most likely, you don't hold a belief that any gods DO exist. Again, by your (what I think is too conditional) definition of theist:

Theists are 100 percent certain their god(s) exist

... so if a theist is 100% certain their god(s) exist, one cannot be Agnostic + Theist. That means they're non-theist, which = atheist. I will say though, that that statement of yours is NOT required for a theist. They don't have to be 100% certain. They just have to hold that belief. I can still believe the Detroit Lions will win their next game, but I'm certainly not *100%* certain. :)

Agnosticism by general definition = "I don't know". It's technical definition goes a bit further = "One cannot know". This usually results in a Lack of belief there IS a god or gods (atheistic/non-theistic).
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 70
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 11/18/2015 10:25:33 AM

But that is just being deist. There has to be and is a difference, that difference is that you believe the deity has some function or role in the universe. Religion hasn't come into it yet. This is where others on here get muddled up.

No -- theism is open-ended. Miscommunication in words here in where the word 'just' is placed. I'm not saying theism is the belief that JUST a god exists (restriction) -- I'm saying theism is JUST a belief a god exists. To what degree, a singular god, multiple gods, interactive god(s), non-interactive god(s) -- that's just a subset. Theism is SIMPLY a belief that a god exists. It's non-specific and generic. A deist is a theist who believes said God is non-interactive/intervening.

You are confusing lack of belief with no belief because of evidence.

No belief because of [no] evidence = a lack of belief. :) It's a Reason Why there's a lack of belief attached to it. It's an extension of simply a lack of belief.

You have to believe there is a deity to consider nothing can be known about it.

Agnosticism isn't just about a belief in knowing about a god(s). It's a belief that one cannot know whether or not said god even Exists. Big difference.

If you are atheist and think 100% that deities do not exist (which you would have to be a deity to know) then this becomes a faith in itself.

That's a Strong Atheist. Or anti-theist. A type of non-theist. They just don't lack a belief in the assertive belief that gods Do exist (theism), but they ALSO have an assertive belief that gods do NOT exist.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 71
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 11/18/2015 11:50:20 AM

You are now back to the earlier definition I posted. Although you've got non interactive in theist which then makes that deist even by your definition.

I don't include non-interactive as part of the definition of theist, no. A belief in a non-interactive god is a subset -- a specific type of theist, which is one who believes that there is a god. Theism is Non-Specific as far as types of gods go. Theism is an assertive belief that god(s) exists. That's it. Saying Bob is happy is just saying Bob is happy, that's it. He could be ELATED, he could be mildly happy... he could be full of sexual glee, he could be happy about x, y, or z. It's a very general statement to merely say "Bob is happy". Same with theism -- theism is non-specific -- it doesn't say anything specific about what type of god or conditions... all it says is that they assert that god(s) exist. They don't have to be 100% certain (like they'd bet their whole bank account in Vegas on it) -- but they hold the belief that god(s) does exist.

Again back to the original definition [agnosticism]

You said you have to believe in the existence of god to believe that you cannot know about god. I disagree -- agnosticism is the belief of not being Able to Know of the Existence or Non-Existence of a god, hence, most people who believe it's impossible to know if god exists or not don't assert that god Does exist.

There is no term for someone who knows for a fact that God does or does not exist other than stupid. It up there with proving a theory

I wasn't saying/implying knowing for a fact, although many people do believe it's a Fact that god exists in one way or another -- just faith on what exactly god wants one to do, etc. I was making distinctions of the type of non-theist one can be.

- A theist is one who has an assertive belief that god(s) Do exist.
* A deist is a theist who believes god is non-intervening/non-interactive
* A monotheist is a theist who believes that there is just 1 god
* A polytheist is a theist who believes that there is more than 1 god

- An atheist (non-theist) is one who is not a theist
* A strong-atheist is one who ALSO has an assertive belief that god(s) do Not exist (anti-theist)
* A weak-atheist is one who merely doesn't hold the belief that god(s) Do exist (merely non-theistic)
 Aprilikeswhiteroses
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 72
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 11/18/2015 7:16:31 PM
^^
Letter G = GOD.
To read your post, I had / needed to fix the letter G. first.
copy, paste fixed:


1-

I don't include non-interactive as part of the definition of theist, no. A belief in a non-interactive God is a subset -- a specific type of theist, which is one who believes that there is a God. Theism is Non-Specific as far as types of Gods go. Theism is an assertive belief that God(s) exists. That's it. Saying Bob is happy is just saying Bob is happy, that's it. He could be ELATED, he could be mildly happy... he could be full of sexual glee, he could be happy about x, y, or z. It's a very general statement to merely say "Bob is happy". Same with theism -- theism is non-specific -- it doesn't say anything specific about what type of God or conditions... all it says is that they assert that God(s) exist. They don't have to be 100% certain (like they'd bet their whole bank account in Vegas on it) -- but they hold the belief that God(s) does exist.



2-

You said you have to believe in the existence of God to believe that you cannot know God. I disagree -- agnosticism is the belief of not being Able to Know of the Existence or Non-Existence of a God, hence, most people who believe it's impossible to know if God exists or not don't assert that God Does exist.



3-

I wasn't saying/implying knowing for a fact, although many people do believe it's a Fact that God exists in one way or another -- just faith on what exactly God wants one to do, etc. I was making distinctions of the type of non-theist one can be.

- A theist is one who has an assertive belief that God(s) Do exist.
* A deist is a theist who believes God is non-intervening/non-interactive
* A monotheist is a theist who believes that there is just 1 God
* A polytheist is a theist who believes that there is more than 1 God

- An atheist (non-theist) is one who is not a theist
* A strong-atheist is one who ALSO has an assertive belief that God(s) do Not exist (anti-theist)
* A weak-atheist is one who merely doesn't hold the belief that God(s) Do exist (merely non-theistic)




Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, It feels much, much better now.!!
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 73
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 11/19/2015 6:05:47 AM

- A theist is one who has an assertive belief that god(s) Do exist.
* A deist is a theist who believes god is non-intervening/non-interactive
* A monotheist is a theist who believes that there is just 1 god
* A polytheist is a theist who believes that there is more than 1 god

- An atheist (non-theist) is one who is not a theist
* A strong-atheist is one who ALSO has an assertive belief that god(s) do Not exist (anti-theist)
* A weak-atheist is one who merely doesn't hold the belief that god(s) Do exist (merely non-theistic)


see how definition debates turn into a "Google Cut and Paste" fest

so allow me to pose a question that might force original thought

if one was to ask a Deist where they get their morals from if not from the bible...what would a deist perhaps say
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 74
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HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 11/19/2015 9:41:32 AM

It's uncertainty, they know one exists that differentiates from theists who believe one exists but cannot know for certain because of evidence.

No, that is Not the definition of an Agnostic. At all. :) The definition of agnostic is Not one who Knows one exists -- they Don't know if one exists or not. They believe it's Possible one exists, and it's Possible one does not exist -- but more specifically, it's a belief that you Can't Know if one exists or not. It's not that you Can't Know ABOUT God. Again, it's that you Can't Know if one even exists or not. Big difference.

Everyone's either a theist or a non-theist. An agnostic can technically fall in both ranges, but usually is a non-theist (atheist). Depends on how loosely you wish to use the term agnostic. One can hold the belief that you can't know if one exists or not -- BUT they can still believe one does purely on faith. Usually, being agnostic is the reason why one puts a belief that there Is a god "on hold" -- which does mean they are Atheistic. However, due to the social backlash of "atheist" -- they like to just leave it at agnostic. :) They're 5th-grader scared of labels that peers don't like - lol.

see how definition debates turn into a "Google Cut and Paste" fest

That's not a google cut-n-paste fest. It's my own layout of common-sense. This is not a theological debate in this spawned debate, but a language debate. It's actually quite easy to understand, except part of some people's religious beliefs + popular-social-definitions that aren't correct, it makes it difficult to understand things that are not on the level of basic arithmetic.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 75
HOW TO TURN AN ATHEIST TO A THEIST
Posted: 11/19/2015 12:03:13 PM

Posted By: andyaa
Of all the arguments that fundamentalists resort to in their defense of the Bible, none is more ridiculous than their claim that the Bible is necessary for people to know how to live moral lives.


I've asked a question to force original thought but as I suspected you are so addicted to "google cut and paste" that you plasticised your answer word for word off another website ..perhaps from here . http://hwarmstrong.com/morality-without-bible.htm

and this time since you failed to cite the source it's clearly plagiarism ....
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