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 Aprilikeswhiteroses
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 207
The POPEPage 11 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
Today's lesson is :

"How Use the word Charlatan in a sentence"


Example # 1
According to the news, Jo van is a charlatan


Example # 2
Jo van is a known charlatan who will lie about people's religious belief.


Example # 3
Jo van The charlatan is trying to deceive religious people and the Bible just because his is an atheist.

Example #4

The charlatan Jo van has way too much time on his hands that is why he is writing nonsense.




AND THAT ^ LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WAS TODAY'S LESSON.!!
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 208
view profile
History
The POPE
Posted: 10/26/2015 3:25:21 PM

I don't fully understand how we might be 'closer' to a banana than we might be to a fruit fly, so I think the last figure for fruit flies must be wrong.

I could be wrong, but I think that on this larger evolutionary scale because of how it all works, how much DNA we share with something doesn't necessarily equate perfectly with how "close" we are related. There are a lot of things going on genetically that one must calculate in. There are very small and simple organisms, for example, which have many times the genes that we have, but that wouldn't mean that they are more complicated or advanced or sophisticated.

I don't doubt that many/most of those people are probably "good people", or at least, are trying to be.
(I think that the vast majority of people are "good people", believers, or not.)

Do "good things" by all means, I'm all in favour of that.
But do it because it's the right thing to do, and NOT because you think it will please some mythical "god".

One of the big problems that us non-religious people have with religion is this -

Everyone might want to be and do good, and think that religion is about being and doing good...but simply wanting or trying to, and feeling that it's important to do so, just does not cut the mustard. That is very inadequate and always will be by itself. The key to everything, what makes all of the difference, is being able to know how to be and do good. Despite whether or not religion gets it right sometimes...which is inevitable, and doesn't validate anything...it is intrinsically (by it's fundamental nature) handicapped in this regard and is the very antithesis of what we need in order to actually be and do good.

What is required here is the pursuit of reflective objectivity not infected with any dogmatic mindset. Part of the so-called "war" between science and religion is trying to be intellectually responsible on the one hand, and trying to undermine that effort on the other hand. Touting and developing what is necessary for all this, versus censure of what is really needed.
 aj7125
Joined: 11/28/2014
Msg: 209
The POPE
Posted: 10/26/2015 3:40:05 PM
April, msg 251, spot on! (JMO)
 8inscrew
Joined: 11/17/2014
Msg: 210
The POPE
Posted: 10/26/2015 3:59:22 PM
The lesson was: it's ok for you, as a christian, to call someone names?
Childish passive aggression is fine by your god?
Got it.

Why not address some of the points?
Oh wait a minute.... maybe you can't.
Here are some facts for you April. Enjoy.

The church and their christians have done many, many atrocious things around the world.
For several thousand years. Thousands of years. Generation after generation.

Child rape and execution, murder by the tens of millions, the plague, destruction of
temples, other folks' places of worship, whole sections of medicine, art and science have been destroyed
and repressed for decades. Whole cultures erased from world history.
Whole cultures. Extinct.
Eradicated by your church...

They sacked, looted, and destroyed cities, raped the women and took them as spoils.
Rape murder and kidnapping? Fine by christians and their god.

For profit, or prophet...... as it were.
Ironic wording or global community planning a few thousand years old?


Even the nazis didn't hold a candle to what christianity has "accomplished".
Cry around all you want. It is a fact.

Why anyone would align themselves with an organization that corrupt, with a lonnnnnnnnnnnng
History of violence, destruction, repression, genocide, including every man, woman, child, ox, sheep, chicken,
..... well it's a clear picture for some.

April.... the bible says rape victims should be put to death. Stoned in the street... for being victim of a crime!
Someone could rape a young girl, then just buy her from the Father. The rapist doesn't want her? Her family
Led by the father, was to stone her to death.

You should look at the stoning of Du'a Khalil on youtube. It's real and horrific.
Not done by christians this time.... but the bible admits to many stonings, even makes it "law".
Ever see christians demonstrate against gays or abortion? Not very christ-like.
Imagine if they had a bunch of rocks? Whoa. I can see them casting stones and condemning others.
Smite the rape victim then pat each other on the backs...
Many examples of these human rights violations that the bible says are perfectly acceptable.

Human rights violations. Sponsored by your church. For thousands of years.


As a christian, you are supporting this abuse. You continue to pay homage to it, you tithe to it.
You try and spread this.

Even Germany renounced the nazi after their human rights violations were brought to light.
Christians know about the crusades and the other abuses. Just business as usual, right?


Anytime a person starts talking about their god, and how I need "help"...... why does it involve giving 10%
of my income and my weekends to help re-roof a church for free, or donate my time to their cause?

I do donate my time, to holiday soup kitchens, a pet rescue, and in my local community. I hold doors, lend an
arm to the elderly, dig and tow folks out all winter long. One of my places has a lot of homeless, due to easy camping.
Several times a month I help in some way. Not money, but a blanket? Some canned food? A beer? Why not?

I give tools, appliances, clothing, extra home items, food, money, my time..... even my hair every two years.

But your god says to kill me, because I won't worship him? F that noise.

How can you join and support a group that does those things?
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 211
view profile
History
The POPE
Posted: 10/26/2015 4:36:36 PM

F that noise.

How can you join and support a group that does those things?

Their excuses are stuff like -

- Those people aren't "real" Christians.

- They don't do those awful things anymore that are in the bible or have been done in the past.

- Other people, like non-religious people, do bad things too.

- She herself doesn't do these bad things, so she is exempt from any guilt, therefore can still identify with the group which is guilty and seems to tend towards these things nonetheless.

-"I'm not perfect. I am a sinner. But as a Christian, I am saved and forgiven, so all of this other stuff is irrelevant to any discussion."
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 212
The POPE
Posted: 10/26/2015 5:17:34 PM
There is no war between science and religion.

Pretension and religion - maybe.

Religion does not undermine science. We are not talking about the crazy atheists or the nutty religious,now.
______________________________
______________________

""""The lesson was: it's ok for you, as an atheist, to call someone names?
Childish passive aggression is fine by your non belief?
Got it.

Why not address some of the points?
Oh wait a minute.... maybe you can't.
Here are some facts for you . Enjoy.

The non-religious and their antheists and antitheists have done many, many atrocious things around the world.
For several thousand years. Thousands of years. Generation after generation.

Child rape and execution, murder by the tens of millions, the plague, destruction of
temples, lawsuits against believers and folks' places of worship, whole sections of medicine, art and science have been destroyed
and repressed for decades. Whole cultures erased from world history.
Whole cultures. Extinct.
Eradicated by atheists...

They sacked, looted, and destroyed cities, raped the women and took them as spoils.
Rape murder and kidnapping? Fine by atheists and their non-belief.

For profit, or "cool points" ...... as it were.
Ironic wording or global community planning a few thousand years old?


Even the nazis didn't hold a candle to what many other atheists have "accomplished".
Cry around all you want. It is a fact.

Why anyone would align themselves with an organization (yeah, atheists are part of one,antitheists even more so) that corrupt, with a lonnnnnnnnnnnng
History of violence, destruction, repression, genocide, including every man, woman, child, ox, sheep, chicken,
..... well it's a clear picture for some.

Some athesist think that rape victims should be put to death. Stoned in the street... for being victim of a crime!
Someone have raped a young girl, then just buy her from the Father. The rapist doesn't want her? Her family
Led by the father, was to stone her to death.

You should look at all the crime committed by anti-theists and atheists on youtube. It's real and horrific.
Not done by atheists this time.... but the non atheists engage in many stonings, even makes it "law".
Ever see some atheists demonstrate against gays or abortion? Not required to be anti-theists or atheists to be against either or both
Imagine if they had a bunch of rocks? Whoa. I can above me see atheists and antitheists casting stones and condemning others.
Smite the rape victim then pat each other on the backs... excuse the crime
Many examples of these human rights violations that the atheists say are perfectly acceptable.

Human rights violations. Sponsored by atheists and antithesists - all around the world. For thousands of years.


As atheists and antitheists, many engage in and are supporting this abuse. You continue to pay homage to it, you worship it. (Obviously many read from the same script)
You try and spread this.

Even Germany renounced the nazi after their human rights violations were brought to light.
Antitheists and atheists have put the crusades and the other abuses to shame. Just business as usual, right?


Anytime a person starts talking about their antitheist rhetoric and how the religious need "help"...... why does it involve giving so much %
of their income and weekends and time to help debate something they don't believe in?

They, like believers do donate their time, to holiday soup kitchens, a pet rescue, and in my local community. They and believers hold doors, lend an
arm to the elderly, dig and tow folks out all winter long. One place has a lot of homeless, due to easy camping.
Several times a month christians and atheists and anti-theists help in some way. Not money, but a blanket? Some canned food? A beer? Why not?

Both groups give tools, appliances, clothing, extra home items, food, money, time..... even hair every two years.

But many atheists have it in their heads that believers,particularly of the Christian type, want to kill them, because they don't worship? F that ridiculous belief of atheists and antitheists.

How can you join and support a group that does those things?"""""
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 213
The POPE
Posted: 10/26/2015 5:55:59 PM
IMO, There is a better chance for a practicing Muslim to get elected POTUS than a self proclaimed atheist
 villabolos
Joined: 7/24/2015
Msg: 214
The POPE
Posted: 10/26/2015 7:55:08 PM
I have a friend who years ago got this girl pregnant. He practically pushed her in to the abortion clinic.
Even though it is years later, every chance he gets, he makes it a point to tell people he is an atheist and he tries to shoot down anything Christian. Even earlier this year, we were at a 200+ person wedding, and when he got up to speak, he let everybody know he is an atheist.
He's just like Jo.
Every chance he gets, he wants to let people know his beliefs. This only started after his girlfriend aborted his kid at his urging.

It is not to hard to see he is hurting greatly on his insides over that abortion. He was never like this before.
He is doing everything he can to rationalize his behavior.
Much like most atheist, he hasn't been in a Church in years....but he is an expert on Christianity. He chooses to get his Christian education from places like yahoo and huffingtonpost.

It wouldn't surprise me that if you were able to look into the lives of the militant atheist, you'd find a lot of very similar situations.

Keep fighting the good fight, April!!

There are so many ridiculous remarks in this thread it's impossible to even address them. I remember one was about Catholic Priests giving marriage counseling.
What I am told a session will be like is he will ask...do you pray together??
Every single time the answer is "no".
THen he'll say...will you pray together??
IF they say "no", that's probably going to be the end of the session.
OR one may say:
-God first
-your spouse 2nd
-you 3rd
All pretty basic. If you can't accept there are things out there bigger than yourself...there is a good chance your marriage is going to be in trouble.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 215
view profile
History
The POPE
Posted: 10/26/2015 8:11:48 PM
Very simple: There is nothing intrinsic of what Atheism is...just a lack of belief, or even a belief that there isn't a god according to some people's definition...which encourages or leads to immorality.

Whether directly or indirectly, immorality comes from a lack of emotional, intellectual, or social growth or adjustment, or also a genetic absence of empathy, etc.

On all fronts, factual and truthful information and education, in one realm or another, is what abates and prevents this.

Atheism (not anyone who simply claims to identify with), a choice to be skeptical and intellectually responsible and honest, naturally associates with and (potentially) leads to emotional, intellectual, and social growth and adjustment.

Religion is the opposite. This is not simply because of engaging in negative behavior because a holy document dictates it. But it is because the basic nature of dogmatism/unquestioned belief, and psychologically needing the culture of religion in general, sets up a mindset either in the individual or the group which puts the pursuit of objectivity in the back-seat and is always a potential to undermine this pursuit on any level or in any area of life. Even a genetic hard-wired source of immorality can be addressed if we know how to do so. And knowing how to do so requires that mindset of pursuing objectivity, information, and education in some way or another.

Even if someone thinks that not believing in a god, or believing that there isn't a god, would justify immorality...it is not because the one logically leads to the other, but instead it is simply because one thinks that it does. And one can only believe that the one justifies and excuses the other because of a lack of objectivity or education, or because religion has convinced them that it makes sense.

John shot Bob with a gun. Alan does not have a gun, so Alan cannot shoot anyone with a gun. Whenever someone named 'Alan' who is accused of not having a gun in fact shoots someone with a gun, then it cannot be said that an Alan-without-a-gun shot someone with a gun. Obviously Alan did have a gun, and cannot be said to be among those who don't have a gun.

In closing, the very fact that people cannot grasp these ^ things about religion is because they're religious. Grasping things requires a capable and developed mind...

...information and knowledge has been explained by the metaphor of "mind viruses". In the world of real biological viruses, we have an immune system that fights against bad viruses...HIV/AIDS is a situation where that immune system itself is undermined and compromised. Religion is the HIV/AIDS of mind-viruses.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 216
The POPE
Posted: 10/26/2015 8:20:42 PM
""Atheism (not anyone who simply claims to identify with), a choice to be skeptical and intellectually responsible and honest, naturally associates with and leads to emotional, intellectual, and social growth and adjustment.""

Nothing posted by anyone on this thread supports that statement.

However, I am sure now. Pretension is the opposite/enemy of religious belief.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 217
view profile
History
The POPE
Posted: 10/26/2015 8:27:22 PM

I have a friend who years ago got this girl pregnant. He practically pushed her in to the abortion clinic.
Even though it is years later, every chance he gets, he makes it a point to tell people he is an atheist and he tries to shoot down anything Christian. Even earlier this year, we were at a 200+ person wedding, and when he got up to speak, he let everybody know he is an atheist.
He's just like Jo.
Every chance he gets, he wants to let people know his beliefs. This only started after his girlfriend aborted his kid at his urging.

It is not to hard to see he is hurting greatly on his insides over that abortion. He was never like this before.
He is doing everything he can to rationalize his behavior.
Much like most atheist, he hasn't been in a Church in years....but he is an expert on Christianity. He chooses to get his Christian education from places like yahoo and huffingtonpost.

It wouldn't surprise me that if you were able to look into the lives of the militant atheist, you'd find a lot of very similar situations.

This is only a ridiculous anecdote which has nothing to do with the morality of atheism or religion.

Nothing posted by anyone on this thread supports that statement.

I don't give a f-ck what anyone else has posted on this thread, when it concerns that statement being supported. That is extremely irrelevant.

However, I am sure now. Pretension is the opposite/enemy of religious belief.

You are, at this moment, being just about as full of shyt as you can be.
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 218
The POPE
Posted: 10/26/2015 11:19:21 PM
http://usatoday.com.co/pope-francis-endorses-bernie-sanders-for-president/
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 219
The POPE
Posted: 10/27/2015 3:59:14 AM
"The church and their christians have done many, many atrocious things around the world.
For several thousand years. Thousands of years. Generation after generation."


"The non-religious and their antheists and antitheists have done many, many atrocious things around the world.
For several thousand years. Thousands of years. Generation after generation."


And what is the commonality? We're all human beings.

The potential to commit atrocious and altruistic acts resides in each and everyone of us.....regardless of religious or non religious beliefs.




And for the record.....I think Mr. Jo van is lovely and not a charlatan at all.
I may not agree with his beliefs....me being a Christian and all....but there is much we can learn from our differences. :)
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 220
The POPE
Posted: 10/27/2015 4:48:54 AM
Neither an atheist nor a religious person can disprove or prove the existence of God. It all comes down to a matter of faith. The faith in the existence of God or faith of the absence of God. And all the debating in the world will not prove whether God exists or doesn't.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 221
The POPE
Posted: 10/28/2015 5:15:13 AM
Oh dear oh dear.
If I were a "charlatan", that would surely mean that I wasn't an atheist at all..?
Ar "using the word "charlatan" in a sentence", it's a spectacular fail I'm afraid.

So, I'll ignore the angry, almost hysterical outburst of 'ad hominem' attacks, rather than taking them apart, a line at a time.
Though "trying to deceive religious people and the Bible just because his is an atheist." is a 'doozey'! -What does that even mean?

It's ok April. I forgive you..

I don't know why you're getting all angry with me. I'm not the only one who's unconvinced.

Every other single religion also thinks that yours is "wrong", and you also think theirs is "wrong".
So we only disagree on something like 0.025% of all religions, and we agree about the other 99.975%
We have lots more in common, than separates us.
Can't we all just be friends...?

Thank you KJ,
I fully agree, I also think that he's lovely,
as is your most lovely self.

And Villa,
I don't "take every chance I get", but this is a thread about the "pope".
It seldom comes up, during my daily life.

If you believe in "god", maybe you could ask "him" why he "aborted" the first 4 tries me and my 'ex' had at having children.
That's what medical people call a "miscarriage"; a "spontaneous abortion".
Apparently "god" (if you believe in "god"[s]) aborts about 25% of all pregnancies, many so early, that people don't even know. He never explains why he does this.
That's more than all the 'abortion clinics' combined.
So all those religious people "protesting" against abortions, should really be asking "god" to just stop doing it,
because if it's a "sin", he's the biggest culprit of that particular "sin".

Dee:
"Pretension"..?
I'm not even sure if that's a word.
It's usually used to describe devices in seat-belts, or a type of concrete, or maybe a sort of headache.

I think that what you're trying to say, (hard to tell really) is that you feel that you're out of your depth, because some people are using "words", and stuff, and when that happens, you just resort to 'ad hominem'.
That's basically the "intellectual strength" of your "argument"; when you can't find an answer to any well-presented, cogent and reasoned argument, put forward by anyone with whom you disagree, you basically say;
"anyhow he's a * * * * * * * "
- Anything can be inserted there; "abused by priests", "militant", "just a big stinky poopy-face",
or now, "pretension"[sic].
Look..
Just because you don't understand something, that doesn't necessarily mean that all the people who do understand it , are being "pretentious", they might actually just be cleverer than you.
And calling people names, certainly doesn't make you look any cleverer. Au contraire.
Pretentious? Moi?
If you want "pretentious", I suggest that you look towards the people who elevate themselves to the status of "priest", "rabbi" or "mullah", but then claim that it was "god's calling". (Including thousands of child-rapists)
They're almost the definition, personified.
HTH

8ins:
Word.

Yule:

IMO, There is a better chance for a practicing Muslim to get elected POTUS than a self proclaimed atheist

Well.... some people say.....
It's true though, and I'm always forgetting how 'seriously' "faith" is still taken, in US. politics.
Not a single openly "out" atheist in the whole senate, apparently, although about 40% in the general population. Weird eh?
Tony Blair once famously said "we don't do religion".
But he turned out to be a great big liar, and a possible war criminal.
He very-much does " do religion", so making him the "middle east peace envoy", (when he clearly believes in the same fairy-stories on which "Israel" was founded), was rather like putting a 'believer in pixies', in charge of sorting-out a dispute between the 'believers in fairies', and the 'believers in elves'.
Rather predictably, (IMO) he made little progress.
There will never be any peace in the middle east until someone rational and objective, in other words; an atheist, adjudicates, and bases it on facts, and not fictions and/or"beliefs"..(IMO)
Religions have fvcked-up [/Med. Term] the whole area, for about the last 2,000 years,

BBNI:
My "proof" is that he either doesn't exist at all, or else he does exist, and he likes to watch children being raped.
There's no "middle ground" for me, on that.

Who are all those other "gods" who must all be lying, to all those other people who believe in all those other "gods", people don't just share ONE single belief?

If a single "god" existed, (or several, in any claimed form/version), and "he/she/it/they " could do all the things claimed, by all the various different religions, or even half of the things claimed, it's existence would be blindingly obvious, and self-evident.

I wouldn't need a book, or a priest, to tell me all about it.(/him?)
And there would only BE one religion, and ONE set of "beliefs"/"rules",
and we'd all know about them, everywhere in the world.

All religions claim to be the one "true" religion, the roman catholics certainly do.

But then, they also claimed that the "Turin Shroud" was "genuine", - until it was exposed as a mediaeval fake.
They also claim to have many other "true" "relics", the RC church loves it's "holy relics".
-Indeed, there are enough alleged fragments of the "true cross" to make a life-sized replica of the Titanic, and still have enough left over, for a life-sized model of the Statue of Liberty, and the Spruce Goose.

And then there were all of the cover-ups, of all those rapes, for all those years, all the way up to the current 'private pope'.

There's really no "kind" way to break it to you.

I think there's just the teensiest tiniest possibility, that many of these people, the self-appointed, so-called "leaders" of all these so-called 'faiths', aren't being entirely truthful.
But as ever, it's only in my most humble, and most unpretentious opinion.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 222
The POPE
Posted: 10/28/2015 10:51:50 AM

Neither an atheist nor a religious person can disprove or prove the existence of God. It all comes down to a matter of faith. The faith in the existence of God or faith of the absence of God. And all the debating in the world will not prove whether God exists or doesn't.


It's not just a debate of whether there is or isn't a God. Different religions have different versions of what is heaven and hell, and the rules to get into either place, and the merits of any one of them can be disputed forever. For example: a suicide bomber who straps bombs to himself, goes to a crowded public place to blow himself up, with the intent of killing as many innocent people as possible, to rid the world of non-believers. His religion might consider it a good religious act that will guarantee him a spot in Heaven (their version of it), while all of non-believers who were killed would end up in their version of Hell. It's totally backwards thinking to me, but there are a lot of things about religions that I find backwards or hypocritical.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 223
The POPE
Posted: 10/28/2015 1:16:38 PM

My "proof" is that he either doesn't exist at all


And how does one prove that


or else he does exist, and he likes to watch children being raped.
There's no "middle ground" for me, on that.


?...For you there's no third option? That a God/God's exist and no one religion has the inside track.


If a single "god" existed, (or several, in any claimed form/version), and "he/she/it/they " could do all the things claimed, by all the various different religions, or even half of the things claimed, it's existence would be blindingly obvious, and self-evident.


All the "claims" aside...how does one explain "us" and all the universes? The big bang? The smallest of particles that hasn't been found yet? How were those things created/happen?


All religions claim to be the one "true" religion, the roman catholics certainly do.


Yep, that they do. What I believe is that all religious teachings/books are thoughts on how to be better people...the problem is that when people get involved they tend to "interpret" the teachings in ways that distort the simple intent-how to be a better person. And then there's the "my religion is the one true one" which, in turn, enables people of one faith to invade, conquer, rape enslave, and pillage people of a different belief...all in the name of God.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 224
The POPE
Posted: 10/29/2015 9:02:42 AM

And how does one prove that

I don't need to "prove" that "god" doesn't exist, it's up to the people claiming that he does exist, to provide the evidence upon which they make that claim.
Their literature claims that he "spoke" to people frequently , parted seas, destroyed other ("enemy") cities, performed "miracles", turned people to salt, etc etc. It even claimed that if you become a "christian", "god" will provide you with the ability to step on scorpions, without being stung.

If they expect me (or anyone else) to believe those claims, they should provide some evidence.
Religions don't provide evidence, they have always relied on being able to kill everyone who doubts, as "heretics", "blasphemers", or "apostates".

I'm not making any "claims", I'm simply not believing their claims.

?...For you there's no third option? That a God/God's exist and no one religion has the inside track.

No.
There are far too many discrepancies and contradictions between the beliefs of the many competing religions.
They all claim that (their version[s] of) "god" wants everyone to follow his "rules/plan".
Which generally involves some form of "worship", as instructed by the people who (coincidentally) make their livings from such "belief", in those same (expensive) "places of worship".

The alleged fact that this alleged "god" only whispered his "instructions" into the ears of single individuals, in just one place, at just one point in history, completely contradicts the notion that this alleged "god" is "omnipotent", and omnipresent".
"Chinese whispers" was never a reliable method of transmitting any message.

If "god" exists, then he watched all those children, all being raped, by his supposed "representatives" here on earth, inside his alleged "holy churches", and he did nothing.
Why would anyone want to "worship" such a creature.?


All the "claims" aside...how does one explain "us" and all the universes? The big bang? The smallest of particles that hasn't been found yet? How were those things created/happen?

Good question.
I'm quite happy with the story so far as is currently known; abiogenesis, and evolution. There is lots of actual evidence to support it; more and more fossil evidence is always being discovered.
Also, now we have DNA analysis, which has confirmed/proved what was previously "just a theory", and shows that we share genes with other life forms, shows which branches are more closely related, and when we diverged.

Similarly with the 'Big Bang'. (Comparatively) Recent advances in cosmology, particle physics, astrophysics, quantum mechanics, and other specialist areas of physics have all helped to build a better understanding of how we (and everything else) came into being.
I think it's perfectly fine to say "we just don't know yet", where appropriate.
(Eg 'Dark Matter/energy/flow etc)

It's supreme egotism (IMO) to suppose that we know everything, or that we ever will.
We might be able to think more/better than many other animals, but I don't think we're as important as religions all claim. Certainly not in the vastness of the cosmos anyway.
We're not 'masters of the universe', and we're certainly not "eternal".
We're just inquisitive little monkeys.

As I keep saying, the beliefs of the various religions should only ever be viewed in the context of the wider general beliefs and knowledge of their times.
The end of the 'stone age', the start of the 'bronze age', writing, for the first time, the 'neolithic revolution', and various migrations, for various reasons, or none at all.

Before the 'neolithic revolution', which first created agriculture and domesticated animal-husbandry, and, for the first time ever, the settlements which went with it, all of mankind's ancestors had been hunter-gatherers, and moved almost constantly.
(This was also the first time in human's history when it became possible to accumulate vast wealth and possessions, to denote 'status'. . If you're living a nomadic existence, lots of stuff, to have to move around every time, was actually a disadvantage)

Also, don't forget that this wasn't all that long after the end of the last 'ice age', when there were many catastrophic flooding events, which changed the world completely. As the climate warmed, and the ice melted, people migrated further north, (again) as did the animals they hunted.
And all of those migrations and 'flood myths' were still a part of their oral traditions before writing was invented.

Anything bad which happened to those earliest of 'settlements', especially things for which there were no apparent explanations; diseases, sudden deaths, droughts, crop-failures, or a whole raft of other 'natural disasters'; earthquakes, volcanoes, tornadoes, hurricanes, storms and lightning strikes, or just fires, were attributed to 'angry/vengeful gods', or 'evil spirits', 'demons', 'devils', 'witchcraft' and/or 'curses'.

It's hard to imagine how scary it would be, to live at a time, when all you knew, was what you heard from other scared people.
These were frightened people, just trying to stay alive another day, and extremely prone to 'mass hysteria' if someone shouted "witch", in a crowded theatre.

These were people with virtually no medical knowledge, many women died during childbirth, and a huge proportion of infants didn't make their 5th birthdays (There are still areas where 25% infant mortality rates persist today).
Food and water was often contaminated, and diseases spread quickly, due to ignorance about hygiene, a lack of knowledge, and no indoor plumbing.
Life expectancy at birth was probably about 30. (It goes up a bit, if they managed to survive childhood)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy
Death was commonplace, and scary, and all mental illnesses (and many physical ones too) were believed to be "possessions". Eg., Epilepsy, or any other forms of 'fits', like insulin related ones.

Religions try to answer all questions with either "god did it", or "the devil did it".
This might have been excusable/understandable 2,000 years ago, or even 400, or 100.
But there's really no excuse today:

The current (public) "pope" has said he'd like to see more "exorcisms".

Pope Francis is being credited for a recent revival in interest in exorcisms among the faithful and Catholic clergy , a practice that until his appointment as pontiff, was largely taboo in modern Catholicism. Dioceses across Europe and Latin American in particular have seen an uptick in the number of reported possessions and many have responded with increased training.
Francis does not shy from mentioning the Devil, unlike his modern predecessors. In his addresses, he often warns about the devil’s temptations and educates Catholics on how to avoid them. Francis and the Vatican are endorsing a week long exorcism conference at the Pontifical University of Regina Apostolorum in Rome being attended by 160 priests from around the globe, according to Catholic Online.
.
http://www.ibtimes.com/pope-francis-exorcism-how-hes-brought-practice-back-modern-catholic-church-1884000

These are dangerous, ignorant, backward beliefs.
If you don't believe me, just 'google' "exorcism" or "killed believed possessed", and you'll see many tragic examples of the dangers of these sorts of primitive beliefs.
Children are being abused, and/or killed, right now, because of these beliefs.

You'd think that an organisation which claims to be a 'beacon' of "compassion" , would show a little more compassion towards the mentally ill.
Can you imagine how somebody genuinely suffering from schizophrenia would react to being told that the "devil" had "possessed" them..? Or to having an "exorcism" performed on them..?
People are being killed and/or tortured, right now, because of these beliefs.

I'm one of the laziest people ever, but I'm interested, and inquisitive enough to have bothered to find out a tiny little bit more, about as much as possible, especially our ancient history, and what we (humans) thought, back then, and how they lived.

Ever since the invention of writing, we've begun to accumulate knowledge, and now, there's lots, and all so easily available, (in the west anyway), there's no real excuse for this "pope's" stupid beliefs regarding the "devil"..

Religions prey on people's fears, and thrive best in an environment of pure ignorance.
This "pope" is trying to drag us backwards, to the 'middle-ages'.
Don't let him.

JMO
 Aprilikeswhiteroses
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 225
The POPE
Posted: 10/29/2015 1:35:18 PM

..is that bible. The 'holy document'. That thing which, for some odd reason, just has to be there in order for people to have an excuse to allow all of the other good things to exist. But it's a very ass-backwards relationship - all of that good stuff, but the bible at the center and foundation. That is disgusting...f-cking disgusting...to me.


drinkthesun, I think you do need a hug.!!

Remember that anger,and resentment only gives you tense muscles,and a sore jaw from clenching your teeth.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 226
The POPE
Posted: 10/29/2015 2:53:14 PM

Their literature claims that he "spoke" to people frequently , parted seas, destroyed other ("enemy") cities, performed "miracles", turned people to salt, etc etc. It even claimed that if you become a "christian", "god" will provide you with the ability to step on scorpions, without being stung.


He supposedly had all of these special powers, but he couldn't prevent himself and (if I recall correctly) two other guys from being crucified. Why didn't he turn the crosses and nails into dust, and if necessary, go all Rambo on the people who were trying to kill them? That would make a better story than being nailed to a cross and accepting defeat, and allowing the other guys who were being crucified at the same time to die a painful, slow death. It would suck to be them.

And what other religion(s) uses the image of a murdered dead human as the symbol of their religion-other than other Christian sects? Why not have the official religious symbol of Christianity be that of a young, vibrant Jesus at the peak of his career of preaching? If the symbol of a murdered Jesus is suppose to be a reminder that humans can be total a-holes, we are reminded on a daily basis when we watch the news and told about the constant wars going on with people being slaughtered on a daily basis. How is religion working out for those people-especially if they're given the old standard line "He died for our sins"? So what's the excuse for other people dying-especially if they died because of other people's sins? As far as I'm concerned, it's totally meaningless phrase. What would his excuse for dying be if he died of old age?
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