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 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 334
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2 dutch..Split - break - cut- Eeeeeverything, the dinner bill AND .......the "mood thing"...:-)

It's not Everrrrything at all times -- it's to what "dutch" refers to. On a Wed afternoon she had margaritas, and he had a few Bud Lights. They split the bill -- they went "dutch" on that. It refers to the stereotype of people born from those in the country -- being "cheap". Point is, a gal's Even Cheaper if she EXPECTS a guy to pay for Everrrrrything at all times, and gets offended if there's any situation when dating that she would (gasp) even contribute, or heaven-forbid pay for something she consumes.

No, it's not.

And that's why I tell my daughter, If HE makes you pay on first date, better for him to be in the same "level" (financially speaking) than you.

Easy there Tiger, you're not putting everything I say into perspective in what I meant, but I'll clarify for ya. :) There's far less social argument about a 1st date -- because it's Much more accepting that it's the guy's treat. The social argument actually starts to get momentum (as seen in OP's situation), when boy isn't asking to take girl girl out in typical time spent together, as they have settled in where they've been seeing each other some -- all while the gal not being in any financial distress compared to the guy, but Feels Entitled for guys to pay "just because".
 revoskeepnus
Joined: 8/4/2015
Msg: 335
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who pays
Posted: 2/18/2016 11:22:29 AM
I come from the hills. And, men are men. They would be offended if I offered to pay. Ya'll are the big bad providers and make around 30% more than we do on average...

I guess that's why I never really understood city culture. I have never been on a date from POF or elsewhere... that I paid.

I offered to pay, because it's polite, but men around here don't go for that crap, nor do they see it as a burden. They take pride in "takin care of their wemin'...

I think in general richer people are cheaper. It's how they keep their money. Poor people don't really learn to save money, so I guess the gender roles are more normalized in rural areas. I'm all about free stuff... I'd rather find a man to take me dumpster diving than go to an expensive restaurant... museums, parks, hiking, etc. If a man is going to suggest an extravagant place to eat or meet (6 dollar beers, etc) then he better be able to pay. Of course, there's the women who will think cheap dates/buying beer/wine/picnics as cheapness... who knows.

But if you invite a poor girl from a poor area out, and she doesn't offer to pay, it may be that she isn't wanting to offend you.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 8/14/2015
Msg: 336
who pays
Posted: 2/18/2016 12:27:02 PM
I'm sure I've said this before, but I'm too lazy to check.

I always offer to pay the check or at least leave the tip.
I think this is just a POF thing.
I've never had a guy ask me out and then take my money
for dinner. Sometimes they'll let me leave the tip, but more
often than not, I don't pay.

I have paid on subsequent dates by catching the check as it
lands, but first date has never been an issue.

I went on a date with this awesome, beautiful woman, but I'm not going
to see her again because she didn't offer to pay...said no
man ever.
 SunshineGirl__
Joined: 10/7/2014
Msg: 337
who pays
Posted: 2/18/2016 1:29:31 PM

… equal pay for women means lower relative pay for men.


That is hilarious! are you under some delusion that something magical took place in the 60s, and suddenly women were given “equal pay,” particularly at the expense of men???? Maybe you over-indulged in some of those “60s” LSD trips.


That era didn't make women start contributing.


Nothing “makes” women do anything. We aren’t puppets churned out on a conveyor belt. Surprise!


Maybe there was a short period of time where gals were contributing, but then realized "Sh!t, this equality stuff is going to cost us money.


FFS…….I really wish you’d give up trying to speak for women because you are utterly totally completely clueless.
 LadyInWonderland
Joined: 11/27/2015
Msg: 338
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who pays
Posted: 2/18/2016 1:46:30 PM
IMHO, this sums it up==>

dragonbytes:
"But after a while the whole who is paying gets very blurry, and it while I suppose it's still dating, it's more like just living life to me."

Add this to start ==>

crook_catcher:
"Dragon I don't have issues with that either.
My approach has always been that if I ask a woman out I fully intend to pay for the experience. She's agreed to go with me and that's her recipical obligation at that point as far as I'm concerned. As the dating relationship progresses I've found that it develops naturally into a joint venture between both parties. ymmv :) "

That's comfortable for me.

This too==>
I ran across some interesting thoughts in a book by the folks at Debrett's:

"There are three possible parts to a date, of which at least two must be offered: entertainment, food and affection. It is customary to begin a series of dates with a great deal of entertainment, a moderate amount of food, and the merest suggestion of affection. As the amount of affection increases, the entertainment can be reduced proportionately. When the affection is the entertainment, we no longer call it dating. Under no circumstance can the food be omitted."*

*I just went back to take a look and I found it was "Miss Manners" being quoted. I've never read "Miss Manners" but I say Yay! for her. I like her already, 70-something and a nice Wellesley girl.
 showboatsupreme
Joined: 1/25/2016
Msg: 339
who pays
Posted: 2/18/2016 4:46:32 PM
Dutch after 3 dates if our profiles are still up.

Easy peasy.
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 340
who pays
Posted: 2/18/2016 4:55:39 PM
what are the Dutch thought of this way> If you want company to eat with, have a cuppa why the " who pays" Guess thats why single people sit home with Netflix and chill.. no one pays.
Dutch people are quite generous btw
Maybe we should call it " go POF"
 Butterchickenchuck
Joined: 9/18/2015
Msg: 341
who pays
Posted: 2/18/2016 5:04:29 PM
Perhaps there should be a new movement :

MEN'S WALLETS MATTER ?
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 342
who pays
Posted: 2/18/2016 5:06:41 PM
I've personally seen height-challenged "short" (but financially wealthy) guys do well despite the complaints on here

women say.."oh but you look so tall sitting on your wallet.."

weird, I think most ethnic groups are stereotyped as being "Cheap" at one time or another

have heard it about Dutch, Scots, Chinese..Jews..

I speculate that someone had a cheap friend of one of these descents & started the rumors..that spread..

like most stereotypes does not apply to a whole group
 crook_catcher
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 343
who pays
Posted: 2/18/2016 5:09:20 PM

MEN'S WALLETS MATTER


Would their motto be If we don't go Dutch, fuss we must!? ;)
 sundownertoo
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 344
who pays
Posted: 2/18/2016 5:15:14 PM
A fat wallet is worth 4 inches or 5 inches.....everywhere. Hahaha. A fat wallet trumps baldness, obesity and a whole lot of the usual "red flags".

I wonder where that saying came from as well as I've found the Dutch more than generous.

VVV. Thank you Fullmoonguy
 showboatsupreme
Joined: 1/25/2016
Msg: 345
flirting pays
Posted: 2/18/2016 5:27:46 PM
Good flirts bring out my generous nature :)
 FullMoonGuy
Joined: 3/7/2014
Msg: 346
who pays
Posted: 2/18/2016 5:31:26 PM

I wonder where that saying came from as well as I've found the Dutch more than generous.


From innovateus.net:

"What is the origin of the term ?Go Dutch??

The expression "Go Dutch" has its origin around 1652-1784, during the English-Dutch wars. Around that period, the English commonly used the word Dutch in a number of expressions to convey a negative feeling. The British considered the Dutch to be stingy and miserly and used the phrases involving the Dutch to imply derogatory remarks. Among the several phrases that denoted negative stereotypes include Dutch uncle, Dutch oven, Dutch wife and Dutch courage(which meant courage induced by alcohol)

What are the terms related to ?GO Dutch??

To Go Dutch means to split the cost of a bill and share the expenses equally among the members of the group. Go Dutch is generally used when two people out on a date share the expenses incurred. A term related to “Go Dutch” is “Dutch Treat” where the members of the group paid their part of the bill which in reality cannot be called a treat, in the first place. Dutch Picnic is a public picnic where the participants bring in their own food contrary to public picnics where the organizers are responsible to provide the food. A Dutch Feast is known for the host getting drunk before the guests. "

And from Wikipedia:

"During the Anglo-Dutch Wars between England and the Netherlands in the 17th century, the English language gained an array of insults (including "Dutch uncle"), such as:

"Dutch courage" (alcohol-induced bravery)
"Double Dutch" (incomprehensible, nonsense)
"Dutch cap" (contraceptive diaphragm)
"Dutch wife" (prostitute; sex doll)
"Dutch widow" (prostitute)
"Dutch comfort" (saying that "Things could be worse!")
"Dutch metal" or "Dutch gold" (cheap alloy resembling gold)
"Dutch treat" (social date where the invitee pays for himself/herself)
"Dutch concert" (noise and uproar, as from a drunken crowd)
"Dutch-bottomed" (empty)
"Dutch nightingale" (frog)
These terms also gained prominence in 17th-century New England during its rivalry with New Netherland, which the Dutch captured (and later recaptured) during the Second Anglo-Dutch War.

These colorful (though now incongruous) phrases became part of English usage worldwide, and some are still in use."

 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 347
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who pays
Posted: 2/18/2016 6:18:44 PM
Um...like...should women be required to register for the draft/selective service? Why, or why not?
 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 348
who pays
Posted: 2/18/2016 8:03:06 PM

I went on a date with this awesome, beautiful woman, but I'm not going
to see her again because she didn't offer to pay...said no
man ever.


This is not just about the first date. The OP went out on 10 dates with a woman that never offered to pay anything on these dates. ( BTW she finally did pay for something on a subsequent date ) If a woman expected me to pay for every date, then we are not a match. Regardless of how attractive is.


I've never had a guy ask me out and then take my money
for dinner. Sometimes they'll let me leave the tip, but more
often than not, I don't pay.


Unless you date much younger men, age is probably a factor here. I think younger people in general are more willing to split the bill. Regardless of who technically asked whom.
 flman2015
Joined: 10/3/2015
Msg: 349
who pays
Posted: 2/19/2016 6:43:17 AM


MEN'S WALLETS MATTER ?


Now you're talking, a Wallet Liberation Movement :-)
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 350
who pays
Posted: 2/19/2016 6:47:07 AM
Wallets (Human ATMs)..Going Their Own Way?

interesting that a woman can actually " proudly" state that she'll kiss & fvck if bought dinner..but will not, if not ?
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 351
who pays
Posted: 2/19/2016 6:59:11 AM
Fantastic, Mr. Flman! I like this movement!

I can be there in 3 hours to help liberate yours.

Shall we start at Las Olas Blvd.? :D
 TrvstInKarma
Joined: 9/1/2015
Msg: 352
who pays
Posted: 2/19/2016 9:33:04 AM
Unless you date much younger men, age is probably a factor here. I think younger people in general are more willing to split the bill. Regardless of who technically asked whom.


---

Not in my experience. I've gone on many dates with significantly younger men who were not making a lot of money, but they always (!) paid, even when I tried to split after a few dates, they were not going to have it. Then I've gone out on dates with guys my age or older who couldn't be bothered to pay for a cup of coffee....
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 353
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who pays
Posted: 2/19/2016 9:59:49 AM

FFS…….I really wish you’d give up trying to speak for women because you are utterly totally completely clueless.

I wasn't speaking for women. It was a tongue-in-cheek response to her (seemingly) tongue-in-cheek idea that women have contributed due to the flower power era, but then stopped. Chill out. :)

Nothing “makes” women do anything. We aren’t puppets churned out on a conveyor belt. Surprise!

Well, you furthered my point that that (free love/flower power) era didn't make women start contributing. But it is common sense that culture influences many people (men & women) to go about things differently. No being puppets is required for culture to influence many people's ways & behaviors. My point was that that era didn't as far as shifting the dating scene in terms of who-pays.


This is not just about the first date. The OP went out on 10 dates with a woman that never offered to pay anything on these dates. ( BTW she finally did pay for something on a subsequent date ) If a woman expected me to pay for every date, then we are not a match. Regardless of how attractive is.

Good to bring it back to the original concept. He not just went on 10 dates, but on his 10th date he brought it up -- and she said No she's not contributing and that it's too soon (which was BS). But she seemingly later realized it was BS because on the next date or so, she contributed (in a weird way) by giving him money to pay. Which, if I was in his position, I'd raise an eyebrow, but hey -- baby steps.

I think that's the most interesting part of OP's story. That she emotively responded to contributing in finding a reason... realized that things have progressed and they're not in any preseason of dating anymore... but then gives him money to pay for some stuff. It's really odd that one would be culturally conditioned to find it Weird/Awkward to go up and pay for drinks/movie tickets/etc. With many, is the men-always-pay-for-everything-in-all-circumstances a silly little Pride thing?
 TrvstInKarma
Joined: 9/1/2015
Msg: 354
who pays
Posted: 2/19/2016 11:06:09 AM
So what am I supposed to do when men just won't let me pay? I've gone out on many dates and the men just pay, they grab the check the second it arrives, or they pay for the movie tickets before I get to the window. Do I yell at them and say "no, I WANT to pay"? Lol, no I don't think so. And I'm not talking about guys who want to get into my pants either, this is true for males that I never had or will have sex with. I once paid for bowling when I went out with a younger guy who didn't make much money, and he didn;t like it AT ALL. In fact, he made up for it by buying dinner afterwards, he told me he doesn't like it when a woman pays for him, just not how he was raised. That has been my experience. And I doubt men would like to take me out if I were an entitled, man-hating shrewd - au contraire, I love men, I enjoy spending time with the right kind, and they enjoy my company as well. Note I said company -not expecting just to get some pvssy, they can get that for free elsewhere.
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 355
who pays
Posted: 2/19/2016 11:11:28 AM
^^^^
Correct me if I'm wrong but those arguing against your principles in this forum are not the people you are dating, so their opinion doesn't really matter with respect to you.

You are getting what you want and need out of the men you are choosing to date, the opinions or thought process of those you are not dating is inconsequential. Remember that "the lion does not lose sleep over the opinion of sheep".
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 356
who pays
Posted: 2/19/2016 11:21:33 AM

.................he told me he doesn't like it when a woman pays for him, just not how he was raised. That has been my experience.


I read you loud and clear Karma!

As many times as this subject comes up and as many opinions, from:
He pays/she pays/they pays, everybody pays, Old McDonald had a farm, E-I-E-I-O, LOL (sorry just couldn't help my self, the tune popped into my head)
ANYHOO, There is NO ONE SIZE FITS ALL!

When in doubt, I ask. Communicate. ( I still think Rock/paper/scissors, or "coin toss" is a good idea!)
 TrvstInKarma
Joined: 9/1/2015
Msg: 357
who pays
Posted: 2/19/2016 11:25:01 AM
You are getting what you want and need out of the men you are choosing to date, the opinions or thought process of those you are not dating is inconsequential. Remember that "the lion does not lose sleep over the opinion of sheep".

---

Well said, Belle, and I will remember those words.
 LiliMarleen
Joined: 5/24/2009
Msg: 358
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who pays
Posted: 2/19/2016 11:41:47 AM
I just don't understand these ongoing arguments about this.

Date somebody who agrees with you. Nothing else will work anyway.

My husband, who is a very evolved guy otherwise, just loves to feel that he won me over with his displays of largesse and generosity.

This morning, as he was leaving for a conference, I was doing all kinds of wifely little things for him to make him as sartoriously splendored as possible for his big presentation. I crawled out of bed to do this because I'm very sick with a sinus infection and feel totally crappy. I jokingly pointed out how much he has won the lottery, and (once again, I might add) told him about this ongoing argument on here.

He agreed about winning the lottery and pointed out that he didn't mind investing a little on the front end. Then he reminded me how he had driven 200 miles through a snow storm for our second date and how awesome that made him, and I told him that I knew that was just because he wanted to see my ass, but agreed that he was totally awesome for all the amazing things he did during our courtship, and then he went off to the conference.

This dynamic worked and works for us.

Find one that works for you, whoever you are.
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