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 SunshineGirl__
Joined: 10/7/2014
Msg: 434
who paysPage 18 of 58    (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44)

Most youth who commit grossly violent crimes have been sexually abused.


You said the same thing about “promiscuous” women. Of course it was an accusation at that time; not an excuse like this time.

There are plenty of people who have been abused who manage to not commit crimes of any kind.
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 435
who pays
Posted: 2/22/2016 4:53:05 PM
exactly. One can't simply toss out percentages without back up. There is no evaluation re FAS spectrum and the incarcerated. CJ will play the abused card to try to get their clients a lighter sentence.
Willie is selling his book on Amazon
 Whatsamattababy
Joined: 12/24/2015
Msg: 436
who pays
Posted: 2/22/2016 5:36:05 PM
Then I guess some people are just plain "bad". Not for any other reason than that they choose to be ;)

Seriously though, I suppose we all believe what we need to believe. I do apologize if I was out of turn - I shouldn't try to impose my belief system on others.
 FullMoonGuy
Joined: 3/7/2014
Msg: 437
who pays
Posted: 2/22/2016 6:07:31 PM

The major predictors of youth substance abuse and violent crime are things like poverty


Can you explain how it is that people in "poverty", with little money for food or rent, and no money for "luxuries", manage to have money for so many illegal drugs?


Want to keep kids from joining gangs (or egging houses, for that matter)? Open free recreational facilities for youth.


Yes, because all of those existing city and county parks are just not enough for them to toss around a football or kick around a soccer ball.

Being poor has never been an excuse for being a criminal.
Or for having a neighborhood full of trash and graffiti.

It's only an excuse for not having as much stuff as richer people, or stuff as fancy.
 Dallasroadie
Joined: 2/12/2016
Msg: 438
who pays
Posted: 2/22/2016 6:07:57 PM
Whatsamatterbaby , I don't think you are right but you're not completely wrong either. Abuse (physical and sexual as well as mental) , FAS, drugs, all play a part in some criminal activity. And yes, some are just bad to the bone. And many more that have had terrible things happen to them never offend. It's amazing what Johnny/Susie Girl Next Door will do for meth or cocaine.

And what happened to Pickton as a child? I don't know and I'm not reading his book. There is a petition going around for Amazon to quit selling it. He's one crazy s.o.b. Was he bad to the bone too or abused?

And don't apologize for your opinion or belief system.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 439
who pays
Posted: 2/22/2016 6:15:12 PM
One's give-a-damn could easily be busted when a smash with a brick on the back of the head for your purse, to get the money for the next hit of crack, is applied. The scum who killed a woman with a rock outside the hockey arena as she waited for her son to finish practice, in Surrey BC..was he ever caught?
Maybe it's reasonable that her continuing to live was less important than him getting $20 for a rock of crack?

baby I think you were being sarcastic. .but I do believe SOME are just a bad seed..born evil..that likely conflicts with your beliefs..sorry.
was Dellen Millard abused? Was that why he murdered his father in order to inherit faster? Or just greed?
maybe the 2 immigrant guys shot dead in convenience stores in Edmonton within an hour, a few months ago, deserved to die for working the night shift in a store..the punks got the money, no reason to kill, other than for a thrill..
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 440
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 2/23/2016 7:11:46 PM
It seems to happen with some people no matter what they talk about...the topic became crime and punishment, and the same dynamic sabotaged any real communication or learning - two sides, both with some legitimate point. But it's useless under the shadow of snippy remark come-backs, chained to a win or lose competitive debate, and no one learns anything except that they can remain within their righteous bubble and not lose that sheltering feeling that they are righteous and don't need to consider anything more.

Men versus women...how to date and who should pay...libs and conservs and dems and reps...always the same f-cking shit with some people.

What is important...what is vital...is not your stance nor your particular present knowledge or experience. But what is important is knowing how to structure a discussion, and how to think and learn as you go. That is the precious thing which you rarely find.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 441
who pays
Posted: 2/24/2016 7:41:34 AM
"can you explain how poor people with little money can afford drugs?"

>>>just for the sake of debate, they can't afford the expensive stuff. They may sniff glue or chemicals instead. They'll go for crack version of cocaine. Heavily diluted heroin. Cheap booze/wine over the good stuff. They won't be able to afford detox, so other groups might just "experiment" and not be seen as a drug user as a result (http://www.nytimes.com/1987/08/30/us/rich-vs-poor-drug-patterns-are-diverging.html) while a poorer person is abusing longer, or has no job to practice being a functioning alcoholic at.

Sometimes, the parks are where the bullies are, turf to be defended. Or the equipment's just not safe to play on. Being poor isn't an excuse to live in an underground economy, but it can limit the options for people looking to do better than their parents. As for a criminal mind, there's plenty of white collars pursuing profits that have poisoned people with bad products.

all it takes is an ability to dehumanize others. Hitler did it, yet he had friends and lovers who thought he was a decent enough fellow. Sometimes, evil is banal, and not completely, thoroughly, to-the-bone evil.

now, how's all that for a tangent off the subject? :)
 sundownertoo
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 442
who pays
Posted: 2/24/2016 8:05:06 AM
Poor people and drugs? The sell everything they have including their body and soul. And "we" pay, society as a whole because we pay to care for them, police them, house them, feed them. It does take a village, depending how you look at it. If there was an true answer, we'd not have a problem.

As for dating. It still gets back to the guy pays. But after half a dozen or so dates paid for by the man, ladies, take out your wallet and treat. And no, some nice little scones made by your little hands baked in your finest and most expensive crockery won't cut it. Make him dinner. If you want to be equal - be equal.
 Lasthookbringsme
Joined: 11/8/2015
Msg: 443
who pays
Posted: 2/26/2016 2:27:56 PM

I would just like it if she occasionally said "I got this one" or "let me take care of the tip." Is there anything wrong with that?


No, there isn't anything wrong with feeling that way.

Then, again -- my dates have insisted that the invitations were entirely on them. I don't arrive empty handed -- they always enjoy the ethnic baked food gifts that come along with me for their enjoyment. (One thoroughly enjoyed my lavender/tea coffee cake and the other loved my rose-almond cake)
 Lasthookbringsme
Joined: 11/8/2015
Msg: 444
who pays
Posted: 2/26/2016 2:46:37 PM

And no, some nice little scones made by your little hands baked in your finest and most expensive crockery won't cut it.


I don't bake scones, Blue.

And yes, the dates LOVE my creatively baked goods. The hours of research, time and spent resources preparing these treats (and sometimes with historical context these men understand) are important, not only culturally and socially, but also important to establish trust and express appreciation.



Make him dinner.



I do! According to you, that doesn't cut it, either; because it's expected that I make and serve dinner while his invitation is considered a treat. What's equal? Their both gifts! And those men know what I contribute is better than any restaurant fare.

You don't get to decide what's equitable in my dates and relationships; I and my dates/partners decide that.

And the next time you refer to somebody as a prostitute, I would suggest that you make that consideration for yourself, when you sell out equality for kudos from indefensible and deliberately cheap men, every time you attack one of your betters; it just makes you look old and bitter.
 LetitiaLeGrande
Joined: 3/22/2015
Msg: 445
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History
who pays
Posted: 2/26/2016 2:48:42 PM
rose almond cake sounds delicious!!. If we are going steady or in a relationship of some length I would expect to contribute to dates and outings in some manner also.
 sundownertoo
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 446
who pays
Posted: 2/26/2016 5:29:57 PM

And yes, the dates LOVE my creatively baked goods. The hours of research, time and spent resources preparing these treats (and sometimes with historical context these men understand) are important, not only culturally and socially, but also important to establish trust and express appreciation.


Lol. That is a whole mouth full of pretentious bullshyt. It's actually quite funny. And I'll take old and bitter over pretentious, chubby and entitled any day.

I just can't see how you can't get that after half a dozen or a dozen dates at his expense why you can't pull out your wallet and bit him a glass of wine and dessert.

Or, if you like, give out some creative baked goods that you've spent time and energy researching for their historical, cultural and social context. ( I laughing just thinking about what went through your little head when you wrote all that). Lol.

My point has always been, BOTH need to contribute to make a relationship work. One, or the other, shouldn't feel as if they have been used or that the other doesn't appreciate them or that the other person hasn't "given" as much as they have.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 447
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History
who pays
Posted: 2/26/2016 6:58:30 PM

No, there isn't anything wrong with feeling that way. ["I got this one" or "Here, lemme get the tip"]

Yeah, I don't think there's a controversy there. But is there anything wrong with the Guy feeling that the gal is position to do that as far as Tact is concerned -- in terms of contributing within her comfortable means -- when it's past the "invitation" dates, after things have settled in? That's the real question & sub-cultural controversy.

Then, again -- my dates have insisted that the invitations were entirely on them.

And I agree that "invitation" dates would be, by default, expected to be upon them. I think the only time they wouldn't Necessarily be that way Every Every Single Time, would be if they went on so many dates neither could count while each and every one one was odd in the sense that he cordially Invited her to go out with him. If he did so, he couldn't get upset that she didn't offer to contribute on any one of them -- that's his doing. But at the same time, if he got flustered that she seriously would like to get the tip on one of them down the line or get drinks on the nightcap -- then he'd surely have self-esteem problems.

In most scenarios, the guy isn't Inviting the gal after the initial Dating phase. It's not an invite to be the initial suggestor on what to do. A litmus test to whether two people are Dating (being an item to some degree) -- is that someone's friend calls them and asks them what they're doing this or next weekend. When having no set plans, if they're Dating someone, they'll say something to effect of: "I'm not sure. Sally/Bobby and I are going to go/hang out on Fri and/or Sat, but nothing's outlined. Why, what's up?" No plans are needed to know you'll be seeing the other. Reflective of that is there's no phone call to ask the other if they can take them out, etc. One's past the "pre-season", even if they're taking it relatively slow.

I do [make him dinner]! According to you, that doesn't cut it, either; because it's expected that I make and serve dinner while his invitation is considered a treat. What's equal? Their both gifts! And those men know what I contribute is better than any restaurant fare.

And that's great! I think as long as it $+effort in doing so balances things out to a decent degree, it should matter, of course. EX: If a guy takes her out to dinner+drinks once a week and pays the whole tab on everything every time, and she cooks him dinner about every week too, there shouldn't be a contribtor's argument anywhere. He's not any more "the man" or "the leader" in that situation than if they were doing the "I got this one, you got next one" routine... or she-cooks-in-the-kitchen and he-cooks-out-on-the-deck. :)

You don't get to decide what's equitable in my dates and relationships; I and my dates/partners decide that.

Actually, I disagree. It's the couple that decides what's OK for them -- and if it's unequal and OK, it's unequal and OK. Extreme example: Sugar daddies where they're both OK with that. :)

And that's not the controversy here so much -- it's the Expectations on what one views as a baseline Normal when waltzing into being an item, like the OP's position. When one feels Entitled to have everything paid for, while still having a Large imbalance of what one does for the other when everything's assessed, the argument is that's wack. The entitled one shouldn't feel that's the Normal flow and scoff at those who don't want a Large imbalance once they're seeing each other, but among those who do -- that's where this controversy starts. :)
 Stellan77
Joined: 2/8/2016
Msg: 448
who pays
Posted: 2/26/2016 7:12:53 PM

If we are going steady or in a relationship of some length I would expect to contribute to dates and outings in some manner also.


So before you are going steady or in a relationship you make no contribution?

I don't think a guy could convince a woman to pay for him by saying he'll reciprocate by cooking her dinner.
 TrvstInKarma
Joined: 9/1/2015
Msg: 449
who pays
Posted: 2/26/2016 7:15:42 PM
I have a date tomorrow with my guy friend (who I wouldn't mind dating). I told him I want to go out, he asked me what I wanted to do, I told him, and he took care of it all. He's picking me up tomorrow night, and he is going to pay for it all. He's a great guy and I don't take that for granted. I love that he is a handsome, generous man who doesn't sweat a few bucks.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 450
who pays
Posted: 2/27/2016 12:47:47 AM
@@

***yawn****
 loveisatemple
Joined: 3/28/2014
Msg: 451
who pays
Posted: 2/27/2016 4:27:03 AM
In one ltr, we always split the check. He never picked it up. When we cooked together, we pooled money. In another it was contributed eqully in various ways like me cooking every meal, buying groceries.
He often paid for the restaurant meals but not always. We tended to pool the money.

In courting, rather briefly, they might have paid for the drinks or inexpensive meal, more of a gesture than an expense, but I brought money of course. In general my exes were not splashy with money.
My gfs and platonic male friends were more likely to treat on occasions, which I reciprocated. I never felt annoyed these guys weren't wealthy, but neither was I. We just made it work. We both did appropriate things like gifts, but they were modest.

I just don't lead a life of heavy meals or fine dining because to spend overly seems a waste vs spending on other things. I found it healthier to cook.

In short, I think there is not 1 way in any one ltr, just that both agree it's ok, much less tell others the correct ways to date.
I had been invited on occasion and split the meager check and found that in bad taste. It's not about the money.
 sundownertoo
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 452
who pays
Posted: 2/27/2016 6:37:38 AM

I have a date tomorrow with my guy friend (who I wouldn't mind dating). I told him I want to go out, he asked me what I wanted to do, I told him, and he took care of it all. He's picking me up tomorrow night, and he is going to pay for it all. He's a great guy and I don't take that for granted. I love that he is a handsome, generous man who doesn't sweat a few bucks.


And if you were paying , every time you went out with this guy , how would you feel? He's a nice guy, you enjoy his company, he doesn't appear to take you for granted. And you pay every time you see each other. Would you do that?
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 453
who pays
Posted: 2/27/2016 6:59:21 AM

I love that he is a handsome, generous man who doesn't sweat a few bucks.


But obviously you sweat over a few bucks, since one of your goals in dating is to always get free meals. You're on the "Treat of the Week" plan, where you date a different guy every week. When was the last time you actually put out a few pennies towards the thousands of dollars worth of food you ate? And don't give me the baloney about "But the guys won't let me pay." That's BS. Did they put a gun to your head and threatened violence if you dare pay? This is meal whorism at its finest.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 454
who pays
Posted: 2/27/2016 7:35:36 AM
LOL, the mantra is:

" I absolutely believe in equality , women's lib, I am a strong, proud feminist..etc.

.but I've got breasts so I need never pay for anything"

seems kinda 1940's to me..but whatta I know?
 Stellan77
Joined: 2/8/2016
Msg: 455
who pays
Posted: 2/27/2016 7:53:55 AM

And don't give me the baloney about "But the guys won't let me pay." That's BS. Did they put a gun to your head and threatened violence if you dare pay?


Women put a gun to my head and threaten me if I dare pay for them- solves the problem.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 456
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 2/27/2016 10:18:08 AM

I have a date tomorrow with my guy friend (who I wouldn't mind dating).

I don't know how many dates it's been, but if it's the guy with some bling-bling you referred to before, you very well could be at the point of Dating. He's not a "guy friend" if you go out on dates on the weekends, notably with him paying. Calling him your "guy friend" going out on a date with but "wouldn't mind dating" is a reflection of the odd logistics that some put forth about contributing to dates.

I told him I want to go out, he asked me what I wanted to do, I told him, and he took care of it all.

As a side note, that's just one example of "inviters" don't pay -- it's the guy. :)

He's picking me up tomorrow night, and he is going to pay for it all.

Go you! :)

I love that he is a handsome, generous man who doesn't sweat a few bucks.

Again, it's not about a few bucks -- that'd be taking a walk together and stopping by the ice cream shack. It's a lot of bucks, and that Is Important to you. And he's not a "guy friend" -- he's a guy you're seeing, albeit on a low-key level. Except for him paying for everything at all times, even when you call him up to do so. :)

Aside from the dating games of pretending it's not dating when it is -- there's nothing wrong with dating a guy and him paying for everything. Or necessarily of you calling him up to have him take you out and he complies (pant pant). As long as you two are on the same page and all-good about it, with no false implications from one to other -- that's just fine & dandy. A problem is when a gal in a situation like that starts taking his all-expense-paid/no-strings-attached dating services for granted. Liking him doing so doesn't mean not taking it for granted. It's seeing it as how-a-guys-supposed-to-be, instead of "wow, I lucked out. this is more than what a gal should fairly expect in the dating field. hence, go me."
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 457
who pays
Posted: 2/27/2016 10:41:16 AM
seems to be a bit of an impasse here.

a free dating site like POF likely not the best to find "non-cheapskate" guys.

the internet is a big, big place. ah but the ladies can't get a guy to pay her site registration fee before meeting him,,hmm

here's 3 promising selected sites:
http://www.sugardaddyforme.com/
http://www.millionairedates.com/ (This one is nice "tired of paying bills? join us now!" ? )
http://www.dateamillionaire.com/
not sure if there are equivalents for guys who do not want to pay..try Googling,maybe
 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 458
who pays
Posted: 2/27/2016 10:43:55 AM

As a side note, that's just one example of "inviters" don't pay -- it's the guy. :)


I think some women will only ask a man out when they think he would insist on paying. Thus these women could claim they would have offered to pay. Even though that may have been false.
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