Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Dating Experiences  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 CallaLily004
Joined: 6/27/2015
Msg: 58
view profile
History
What does old-fashioned values even meanPage 3 of 58    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)
^^^^ Now you state this after I just composed the following to post. This was in response to your last prior post....

Markmywords23 --- Thank you for the clarification as it does help a bit more in understanding the situation. So yes, you both have different views, not only on who should pay for or at least contribute once in a while to the dining expenses, but "when" it should be brought up as well. She thought it was too soon, and obviously you did not see it this way. You have not stated whether this is a deal breaker for you, but… going by your topic question: How many dates should a man pay for before the woman contributes? And when is it appropriate to bring it up? It sounds like you will be moving on and just wanted answers for future reference as the above clearly is something that doesn’t suit you well for a possible committed relationship. All that being said, IMO… I do not agree with the following posters comment:



AlanJ805… So, I make it clear to women I date right up front--at least by the 3rd date--that I will not be their suitor.


Why make automatic judgements/rules about someone when you have not even had a first date and have not had the chance to see (get to know) them? Those actions would turn me off immediately and there would not be a first date. Just to be clear, I will always contribute if I like/enjoy the company of that man. If I don’t, why waste my time, just to get freebies from him??? Ummm, No thanks. I look at it this way…. Always start with a new slate and not go by past experiences. Why not just see how things go and after like the 3rd-4th date, if they show no signs of “treating you” to make you feel special (being this is your desire), then just move on. When someone clearly likes or enjoys your company “most” are happy to contribute something to the new dating situation, providing that their income allows. If these actions are not shown, then you have the right to think that all they want is for you to be their suitor and no words should be spoken….. why ask??? Just clearly MOVE ON.

EDIT: So, being that you two have already committed to being "exclusive", will this continue???? being that her contribution is not making you happy?
 Chromis1
Joined: 9/9/2015
Msg: 59
view profile
History
What does old-fashioned values even mean
Posted: 12/23/2015 8:41:25 AM

Yes, we are exclusive. We established this after about date six.


Don't want to take the topic too astray, but I see that on the dating side of this website your profile is still visible and that you were online today. But ... you're exclusive? Is your girlfriend OK with this?

Just a heads up and from one yinzer to another: If exclusivity has been established, little destroys trust faster than keeping your dating profile open.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 60
What does old-fashioned values even mean
Posted: 12/23/2015 8:49:43 AM
On Festivus I wish to list a grievance. Chromis has disappointed me by making me look up "Yinzer". I was expecting it to be some weird sexual fetishist and was profoundly disappointed.
 Chromis1
Joined: 9/9/2015
Msg: 61
view profile
History
What does old-fashioned values even mean
Posted: 12/23/2015 8:55:06 AM
^^^ Yinz got a problem n'at?
 alanj805
Joined: 4/16/2014
Msg: 62
view profile
History
What does old-fashioned values even mean
Posted: 12/23/2015 9:24:20 AM

If these actions are not shown, then you have the right to think that all they want is for you to be their suitor and no words should be spoken….. why ask??? Just clearly MOVE ON.


This may not speak directly to the point you were making, but it's my preference to talk about things rather than to just draw conclusions and make decisions from observations alone.

This thread (as well as most other relationship discussions) is rife with people drawing conclusions from limited experiences rather than actually communicating directly with the person involved. Other posters concluded this woman must be a gold digger by the [limited] description of the situation, and the OP himself acknowledges that he doesn't even want to open the dialog with the lady, even though it is important enough to him to discuss it with strangers on an internet forum. Those with such an attitude because they fear of how it makes them look, or that the other person would get offended, or the other person may simply lie, etc. should reflect on how suitable they--or the other person--is for dating at all.

I have never regretted discussing something important to me directly with the person it affects, and then making decisions from whatever comes of that. It's a great way to actually get to know one another and thereby further the relationship, which I thought was the whole point of dating.
 CynthiaSM
Joined: 3/29/2014
Msg: 63
What does old-fashioned values even mean
Posted: 12/23/2015 9:43:17 AM

Good question, Cynthia, about her not wanting to pay for dinner but being okay with sex. She and I haven't had that discussion and I probably won't bring it up. If I do, she may realize the hypocrisy and send me to a cold shower.

I'm sorry, OP. That says a lot about your relationship right there. The longer this thread goes on, the more issues are disclosed. Seems the issue is bigger than irritation that she doesn't pay, or doesn't ask you out, or got upset that you raised the subject of paying. Do you honestly think that if her hypocrisy is pointed out she'll resolve the disconnect by withdrawing sex, as opposed to asking you out (and paying) for a date?

I've read stories of women using sex, or withholding sex, as a weapon. Is this the kind of person you want to be involved with?


I have never regretted discussing something important to me directly with the person it affects, and then making decisions from whatever comes of that. It's a great way to actually get to know one another and thereby further the relationship, which I thought was the whole point of dating.

+1
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 64
What does old-fashioned values even mean
Posted: 12/23/2015 9:46:00 AM

the OP himself acknowledges that he doesn't even want to open the dialog with the lady, even though it is important enough to him to discuss it with strangers on an internet forum.


Apparently the OP did attempt to open the dialogue with the lady:
I brought this up after date ten and she took offense, said it was too soon for me to start complaining.
...and was effectively told that dialogue wasn't welcomed, at least with respect to the topic at hand. While I totally agree with never regretting discussing something important to me directly with the person it affects, I think in this case the OP is getting a good warning sign of what to expect from his lady friend, both when it comes to her expectations and her unwillingness to communicate when someone draws something to her attention.
 Butterchickenchuck
Joined: 9/18/2015
Msg: 65
What does old-fashioned values even mean
Posted: 12/23/2015 10:03:21 AM
“To be fair, I should point out that she has offered to cook for me. In fact, we've cooked for each other. Again, everything about the relationship has been wonderful except when the restaurant check arrives.”


“Then let it go.”






What if he can’t let it go because it’s important TO HIM ?

Would people still say “ let it go “ if it was something that also bothers them ?

Examples :


Everything about the relationship has been wonderful except when…

…he smokes
…she constantly complains about her ex
….he doesn’t bathe often enough
…she refuses to go downtown
…he doesn’t floss
…she spends the night at her platonic guy friend’s house and returns the next morning all aglow and reeking of sperm

IOW , it may not be a big deal to some but clearly it IS a big deal to the OP or he wouldn’t have brought it up.
 CynthiaSM
Joined: 3/29/2014
Msg: 66
What does old-fashioned values even mean
Posted: 12/23/2015 10:11:53 AM
No one is saying "let it go" in a vacuum. They're saying he has a choice to make. He appears to have gone as far as he's willing to go to discuss the issue with this woman. He has to make a decision, he has 4 options: 1) let it go, 2) break up over it, 3) try to discuss again (which he seems unwilling to do), or 4) keep on with the status quo letting it fester within him.

People are casting their vote/expressing their opinion that if everything else is perfect, then he should choose his battle and not let this one thing (ONE thing from the OP's perspective) ruin a good thing.

Your alternate examples are ridiculous and not even worth addressing.

EDIT: vv agree this is about communication but OP said he already tried to discuss with her and she's not willing to discuss. Correction. She discussed. He didn't like her response. Now he's afraid of her retaliation if he raises it again.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 67
view profile
History
just because its always been done that way doesn't mean it's not monumentally stupid
Posted: 12/23/2015 10:12:21 AM
This doesn't seem to be as much about financial behavior as it is about a communication issue. If you have problems with someone not paying their share, the first person to tell is THEM. Relationships where you walk on eggshells are not real relationships - it's performance art. You're showing a front to your partner - basically acting - and using your friends and family and internet strangers in a forum to solve issues.

The easiest answer is usually the best - TALK to them.
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 68
view profile
History
just because its always been done that way doesn't mean it's not monumentally stupid
Posted: 12/23/2015 10:34:18 AM
After five weeks, and ten dates, and the “exclusive” talk has already happened, this is a relationship. It is no longer a “dating scenario”, or a matter of one pursuing the other.

At some point, in every real relationship, you have to start letting your guard down. You have to stop being on your best behavior, you have to let your guard down, and let them see the real you.

A part of that process is to do more of the everyday things together, instead of “going out on dates” where one or the other has to pick up the tab. I’ll come over to your house and fix that leaky faucet, you cook us some supper (or order Chinese delivery), we’ll watch a movie on Netflix and then maybe we’ll both get lucky.

Sure, you should still have a “date night”. Take her out dancing on Saturday night. But most of the time when you get together, it should be everyday things. If you’re with the right person, going to the grocery store can be fun.
 buxombad
Joined: 12/20/2015
Msg: 69
just because its always been done that way doesn't mean it's not monumentally stupid
Posted: 12/23/2015 11:01:54 AM
I cannot fathom dating somebody and not knowing early on whether they are self-centered or not. It is impossible for the self-centered to hide who they are . . . it is only those who refuse to see what is before them who can date for any extended periods and not know the person before them. Some people choose to blind themselves to the truth of who they are dating . . maybe because they are so attracted or maybe because they so badly want to be dating.
 Chromis1
Joined: 9/9/2015
Msg: 70
view profile
History
just because its always been done that way doesn't mean it's not monumentally stupid
Posted: 12/23/2015 11:03:58 AM

the first person to tell is THEM.


Yeah. Right. He tried. She shot back. He won't be returning fire. Next option.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 71
just because its always been done that way doesn't mean it's not monumentally stupid
Posted: 12/23/2015 11:08:21 AM
Like P.T. Barnum said: There's one born every minute.
 CallaLily004
Joined: 6/27/2015
Msg: 72
view profile
History
What does old-fashioned values even mean
Posted: 12/23/2015 12:40:22 PM

This may not speak directly to the point you were making, but it's my preference to talk about things rather than to just draw conclusions and make decisions from observations alone.


I agree with you 100% regarding that communication is "KEY" to making a relationship grow/work for both parties, and that is how I usually proceed when starting out, or even in a committed relationship when something is bothering me. That being said, I now have to apologize for my wrong assessment to my earlier comment about the why ask…just move on" for THAT particular dating scenario. I did not mean NEVER communicate when there is something troubling the relationship. I came to that conclusion because I felt that if someone is truly into you, they would have by that point offered to treat/contribute towards a dinner - AGAIN, providing that finances was not an issue. In my view, I was going by the norm of today’s society and not thinking outside the box for a “GOOD” possible reason in this case. The reason that I am referring to is, what if that particular person did not offer/contribute anything because in the past it was made known to her that it is an “Insult” not to let a man pay every time for the date and thus why she did not ever offer (did not want to insult) and -- thinking all was peachy . You see…. A discussion would have clearly made a difference, and it would have worked out for the better to clear up the confusion/question on the other party’s behalf. So yes, I was wrong in drawing that original conclusion.
 Inner_Gorilla
Joined: 12/3/2015
Msg: 73
just because its always been done that way doesn't mean it's not monumentally stupid
Posted: 12/23/2015 12:58:29 PM

Sure, you should still have a “date night”. Take her out dancing on Saturday night. But most of the time when you get together, it should be everyday things. If you’re with the right person, going to the grocery store can be fun.


I agree with Ohenry here big time. My partner pays for her part, but sometimes I have bought tickets to the valet, then paid of dinner and drinks and even bought her some delicate lingerie, while she went out and bought a new coat and an incredible dress. Total money spent on my part close to $400. Total money spent on her part, actually because of the coat, about $600.

Yet the next day while going out for breakfast neither her or I complaint about picking the tab for it. So it's all about arriving at that comfort factor in the relationship, while those special dates can always be the old fashioned way.
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 74
who pays
Posted: 12/23/2015 1:00:40 PM

How many dates should a man pay for before the woman contributes?


After 48 years, my dad has paid every time he's ever invited his wife out, even before they were married, in spite of the fact that she worked for most of those years.

Assuming a weekly dinner, the answer is about 2500 meals.
He died, otherwise, I'm sure the number would be higher.
On the other hand, she was responsible for the remaining meals.

They were very communicative and talked about money and expectations quite often.
I wouldn't call either of them 'traditional' or 'old-fashioned'.

So, it's a 'your mileage may vary' question and you should be responsible for expressing your dissatisfaction in some way or another in order to come to a compromise that both you and she can agree to.


And when is it appropriate to bring it up?


When you feel it is appropriate to bring up the subject of money or any other facet of your relationship.
Recognize that compromise may mean you don't get (all of) what you want.
Recognize that some people don't compromise.
 LAgoodguy
Joined: 8/21/2008
Msg: 75
What does old-fashioned values even mean
Posted: 12/23/2015 1:23:15 PM
From dating women who seem to talk about being old fashioned but same time not acting very old fashioned.
I get more of the feel that those women like the idea of being chased. It makes them feel wanted, When they feel guys would do anything for them.
More on the line of an ego boost, Same as they expect guys to chase them. Its how they measure there own self worth.

It would be one of the reasons why most of the time if you listen to them they make no sense.
Its really all about making them feel good..
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 76
What does old-fashioned values even mean
Posted: 12/23/2015 1:26:55 PM
Funny how people complain about paying, but don't complain about sex.

In any case, who pays is who wants to pay. Forget about the number of dates or what takes place, if you don't feel like paying, you simply don't.

My exes paid for everything, excepts the things I bought for them, did for them, etc. That's what I'm used to, and I have no business dating anyone who will resent me for not paying for dates. Home alone has never been proven boring to me.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 77
What does old-fashioned values even mean
Posted: 12/23/2015 3:53:47 PM
^^a bit of a non sequitur.. ¿ so paying is a quid pro quo for sex?

¿ women do not enjoy sex? they do it in return for meals, etc._ ¿ WTF ?
 dpwesu
Joined: 3/25/2013
Msg: 78
What does old-fashioned values even mean
Posted: 12/23/2015 3:56:53 PM
This is yet ANOTHER shining example of why I pay for my own admission tickets, my own meals, drinks, and cups of coffee.......
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 79
What does old-fashioned values even mean
Posted: 12/23/2015 4:22:20 PM

My exes paid for everything, excepts the things I bought for them, did for them, etc. That's what I'm used to, and I have no business dating anyone who will resent me for not paying for dates.


So you allowed your ex's to control your mind, and you have no power to be deprogrammed. If you had ex's who insisted that you pay for dates, would you insist on paying for all future dates? It's all their fault that you expect guys to pay to date you.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 80
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 12/23/2015 6:02:32 PM


To be fair, I should point out that she has offered to cook for me. In fact, we've cooked for each other. Again, everything about the relationship has been wonderful except when the restaurant check arrives.
Then let it go.

I disagree, no +1 there (as another poster had). He also said they've cooked for each other. So that's a wash. Never wanting to or even offering to contribute on the "side dish" side of things so to speak after things have been established? Entitlement issues to consider.

markmywords23- The person who does the inviting pays.

In the form of Invitations? That's a rarity for dates. Asking someone (if they'd like to go) out? Common for dates. So if that's what you meant, I disagree. It's not that simple, otherwise there'd be less of a who-pays issue.

The one who brings up the idea to go out / asks if the other would like to go out -- there is no tradition, rule, or unwritten rule, that they are the one to pay. At all. :) If it's the guy -- oh, heck yes. But the gal? She'd have to Explicitly ask to Take Him Out for that apply. So it's not the "person" who asks the other person to go out. Now, would I LIKE your rule? Yes, it's better than present-day's default/common one that the guy-always-pays + girl contributes somewhat to her easily-affordable range OR fake contributions for 'politeness'. Because if our society Was by those who brought it up to go out, in the end, it wouldn't always be that person anyway so much. Guys would still pay more often, but it would eliminate much more people in society having Entitlement Expectation issues.

I think the gal could be an otherwise great gal -- but is hung up on it. I don't think gold-digging radar at all -- just Entitlement "tradition", and would feel weird/insulted if she had to pay or something. The red flag being her being "Well I Never" when he brought it up, and saying it was "too soon" - LOL. That was not truly the case. If she thinks it's rude to have the gal even contribute on the 10th date, she'll think it's rude on the 20th date, etc. There's no "too soon" about a gal contributing to a date past the first 1-3 or so when it's the evaluation phase (which that is clearly past). So her response raises an eyebrow. But I think she just stumbled and didn't know what to say/how to react -- because she's conditioned that the Guys Always Pays, outside special events.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 81
What does old-fashioned values even mean
Posted: 12/23/2015 6:03:05 PM
Perhaps $200 in a discreet envelope, or left on her dresser, the best approach?
 LetitiaLeGrande
Joined: 3/22/2015
Msg: 82
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 12/23/2015 7:03:09 PM
wow 10 dates over 5 weeks? She has not offered to reciprocate? I don't know if you guys are getting down and dirty but really she should be paying her way at least half of the time. If it bothers you, say something or suggest that you go to her place for dinner etc.
Women want equality yet some seem to feel entitled to be bought and paid for just because they have a vejayjay.
Show ALL Forums  > Dating Experiences  >