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 Blackwood85
Joined: 5/20/2013
Msg: 818
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And while a lot try to paint women like me as whores who are only out for a free meal let me say this...I usually arrive early and order what I want. If he never shows...and this happens, it's ok because I don't mind taking me out. And if he does show it's his option to tell the waiter to add my stuff to his bill. I've never had that not happen. But if it did I'd see it as a turn off and not see him again. I hate bean counters. It's indicative of things to come. With bean counters I will always be in arrears no matter how hard I try. I have no wish to engage with men like this.


If that's your way of weeding guys out then that's flawed as all hell, in one breath you say men are dumb but expect him to follow your "Clever" plan of proving that they're cheap.


Hi how are you, my name is XXX. Your smile is awesome, it makes me smile and you are an absolutely stunning lady. I would very much like to get to know you, I feel anything worth having is worth working for, I would very much like to demonstrate that in my efforts to get to know you. let me know what you think and how you feel about us getting to know each other. XXXX

P.s. You are absolutely worth putting in the work and effort to get to know. I hope you allow me the opportunity to do just that


I agree with Clooney when he said that it reads like a resume, it feels like the guy is selling shit.

"Hi how are you? My name is Sean. Your company is awesome, it makes me smile knowing that I have the potential to work for an absolutely awesome and stunning company such as yours. I would very much like to work for and get to know the ins and outs of your company. Of course I feel anything worht having is worth working for, and I would very much like to demonstrate that in my efforts to work for your company. Enclosed is my contact information and resume along with references. I would like to contact your company in a few days to follow up, I'm looking forward to contact you all in a few days. Thank you"
 NJgirl116
Joined: 7/3/2015
Msg: 819
who pays
Posted: 3/13/2016 8:58:28 PM
The above still sounds better than "you're worth putting in the work and dating." One human being telling another human being what they're worth is condescending and talking down to them. I'm not merchandise, you don't put a price tag on me. You may be interested or not interested in dating me - it says nothing of my worth. As mentioned in one old thread here, the same woman will have some men wanting to marry her, some wanting to date her and some wanting a roll in the hay only. (I remember a suitor tell me that I was "worth having babies with" and I felt freaking insulted, although I did not express it to him since he had certainly meant it as a compliment).

And to take the thought further, if I have some men wanting to marry, some wanting to date and some a roll in the hay, who of the three determines my worth? One guy who wanted to marry was a PhD, a professor and an author; another, who wanted to date, was also a PhD and a professor, although in another field; the guy who wanted a roll in the hay was a college graduate and a businessman. Then again, yet another guy who wanted to marry (my ex-husband), was initially an illegal immigrant working at a bakery with someone else's social security number. This thought process leads nowhere; no one determines my worth.
 ThroatLozenge
Joined: 3/2/2016
Msg: 820
who pays
Posted: 3/13/2016 9:12:28 PM


I agree with Clooney when he said that it reads like a resume, it feels like the guy is selling shit.


You know what's worse then receiving a resume?

Being told...You're Hired!

That's right, she tells me that out of all the men she is dating that I made the cut.

Gosh darn! I won the the most popular Kewpie Doll!

What did she win again?

Another night with her cats...

Bella & Luna, please fetch me some Ben & Jerry's

vvvvv

I would never play games with a woman by telling her that... she made the cut.

Make it a game and I'll make it a circus.

I didn't mean to offend cat owners either.
 NJgirl116
Joined: 7/3/2015
Msg: 821
who pays
Posted: 3/13/2016 9:21:14 PM
^^^The above is what happens when you start playing games with a smart man. Instead of feeling honored by your "final choice", he makes fun of you on a public forum. Ladies heed!
 Llove2laughtoo
Joined: 1/11/2016
Msg: 822
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Posted: 3/13/2016 9:47:30 PM

Msg: 835
(my ex-husband), was initially an illegal immigrant working at a bakery with someone else's social security number.


Interesting. I know this is but let me take a guess, he was from Europe, right?
 Whatsamattababy
Joined: 12/24/2015
Msg: 823
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:03:05 PM

Make it a game and I'll make it a circus.


Does the fact that this sounds kinda fun to me make me a bad person?
 ForeverTexas25
Joined: 1/18/2015
Msg: 824
who pays
Posted: 3/13/2016 10:38:53 PM
Whoever initiates the date should pay for it, but the other should always at least offer to pay for it or at least contribute to the bill. So if a guy asks me out I assume he's paying, but I will always offer to contribute to the bill. If I ask him out like say to get together for lunch or to go grab tacos or see a movie, then I'm expecting to pay.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 825
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Posted: 3/13/2016 11:17:38 PM

She may not be able to afford $20-$70 per date. Maybe this is why she cooks for you.

He wasn't expecting her to pay $20-$70 per date. It was to chip in. It was already more dates past the initial one that they could count on one hand -- and she wasn't. And she was irked that he even insinuated it. If she is cooking for a guy, she's paying more than chipping in on a date, and he should chip in for that (bringing something to the dinner table). It wasn't about, and rarely is, about affordability when it's about merely chipping in (and it wasn't in her case).

One human being telling another human being what they're worth is condescending and talking down to them.

Well, to be fair, he wasn't saying how much she's worth -- he was saying (by merely reviewing her profile) that she's absolutely worth him putting in work & effort in getting to know. His tone wasn't condescending at all. But it sure was cut-n-paste. :)

And to take the thought further, if I have some men wanting to marry, some wanting to date and some a roll in the hay, who of the three determines my worth?

I think it's the other way around -- how much are those situations worth to you? Each one of those scenarios are comparing apples & oranges, though, as they're in different situations (not all off initial messages). Some will be more worth it than others to you. Part of it being worth a lot to you depends on your taste and what resonates with you.

That's right, she tells me that out of all the men she is dating that I made the cut.

Well, I think while on an initial date she tells you that she is out dating other guys -- all while she in the end is aiming for someone to be in a relationship with -- that should offend you even more. After all, you haven't even made any 'cut' yet! We must assume, notably if it's a pretty gal, unless specified otherwise, that she has guys she's talking to and going out on at least occasional dates with early on. We must also presume that if she actually is aiming for a relationship with an ideal guy, she is going to be making 'cuts'. In fact, you'd hope so, because if she keeps repeatedly seeing other guys, that's certainly no good for you if you like her.

So in the end, if you "made the cut" -- I would assume that means she wants to go steady, as she dropped or wants to drop all other prospects (if you do too). I would think it'd be condescending if said a certain way (which I could visualize) -- but it wouldn't necessarily be so. Especially if said in a tongue-in-cheek way, making fun of the dating process. It doesn't have to imply that she was the only gal in your consideration and that you're not a panel of judges yourself (although, again, I could see a particular gal thinking that way).

Whoever initiates the date should pay for it, but the other should always at least offer to pay for it or at least contribute to the bill.

I agree -- but not just Offer to pay for some of it, but to actually Expect/Want to chip in to some degree in almost all cases. A "but I will always offer to contribute," doesn't cut it, as this thread is about the story-behind-the-story: Are you going to feel Any Less about the date or guy if he lets you contribute when you offer? I don't believe the offer carries Any integrity if the person doesn't 100% Desire to contribute to some degree.

If you agree, then there still is a problem: That unfortunately isn't going to be adopted as the Norm in the dating scene at any point in the visible future. A radical sweeping like the level of the acceptance/toleration of gay marriage would need to be, for it to change sometime soon. There's always going to be a high % of women who will be turned off at least to a small degree when a guy asks them to contribute, or a guy expecting a gal to take the lead on paying a date bill in the instance where she took the lead of suggesting the date. I think there's plenty of gals out there who will offer to chip in and not feel any wishes were broken if he accepts, and ones that want to actually pay for the date when she t asked to take him out. But for guys engaging with a gal they like, they don't want to step on land mines, so many of us are conditioned to be accepting of err'ing on the side of paying the bulk of things. But like the OP, we will raise an eyebrow when it's coming upon date #10 and she's not even motioning to ever even chip in when every date isn't some formal ask-to-Take-you-out.
 cassie2425
Joined: 3/4/2016
Msg: 826
who pays
Posted: 3/15/2016 11:53:09 AM

Here is an example of the messages I get from men who have no problem taking a woman out on a date. And yes, I replied to him and hope to go out with him tomorrow:


Hi how are you, my name is XXX. Your smile is awesome, it makes me smile and you are an absolutely stunning lady. I would very much like to get to know you, I feel anything worth having is worth working for, I would very much like to demonstrate that in my efforts to get to know you. let me know what you think and how you feel about us getting to know each other. XXXX

P.s. You are absolutely worth putting in the work and effort to get to know. I hope you allow me the opportunity to do just that.


This is how it's done, and yes, the guy is older than me and very handsome.


I wonder if we will get an update.
 ThroatLozenge
Joined: 3/2/2016
Msg: 827
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Posted: 3/15/2016 12:05:12 PM


I wonder if we will get an update.


The meal or the morning after?
 Blackwood85
Joined: 5/20/2013
Msg: 828
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Posted: 3/15/2016 3:40:32 PM
I still find it funny that we totally shitted on that message, a message Karma clearly liked and was impressed with and wanted to hold as an example of how to send a greeting that proceeded to be dissected to death.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 829
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Posted: 3/15/2016 4:14:18 PM
I did find it amusing that someone thought it wasn't great, then the next day changed their mind and thought it cute. I found it interesting, tho, that the general consensus was pretty much in agreement over the message. People even passed it by friends who agreed. We may disagree on a lot of issues, but its nice to see some things, we agree. BUT. that said, I hope TVK had a good time. everyone dances to a different tune.
 Nth_degree1111
Joined: 9/16/2009
Msg: 830
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Posted: 3/16/2016 11:33:38 AM
Interesting that Karma is back on the boards but avoiding this thread. She does that a lot.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 831
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Posted: 3/16/2016 11:53:21 AM
it seems fairly common that people tend to dislike those full of themselves.. [.. Oh I am so beautiful, and I look 15 -20 years younger than my actual age..I routinely score handsome ripped guys 20 years my junior who line up to pay for everything for me.. }
[ ...
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 832
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Posted: 3/16/2016 12:07:40 PM

I still find it funny that we totally shitted on that message, a message Karma clearly liked and was impressed with and wanted to hold as an example of how to send a greeting that proceeded to be dissected to death.


I think honesty is always the best policy. The truth is that those kinds of messages are copy-pasta and aren't effective at getting dates. She probably didn't even follow up with him, she just wanted to show that some guys are willing to pay for everything. I have no problem with the man or the woman paying for the first date, I just care about what's true. I think it's better to say things that will build attraction and connect with someone emotionally instead of "Yo.. me will pay for you.. lol"
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 833
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Posted: 3/16/2016 12:28:57 PM
"I truly believe every person has their threshold--if the person they want to date is hot enough, it will cover a multitude of sins."

>>>i'll amend that to say, options or lack thereof alter where the threshold lies. Beggars should not be choosers, as the saying goes.
 ThroatLozenge
Joined: 3/2/2016
Msg: 834
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Posted: 3/16/2016 12:44:00 PM
I think a more pressing concern is who continues to pay for how long.

Ducking my head...
 TrvstInKarma
Joined: 9/1/2015
Msg: 835
who pays
Posted: 3/16/2016 9:22:27 PM
Well, I can't post in the "Mature WOman" thread anymore because


You have reached the max number of times you can post to this thread.


Which is fine, because I have nothing more to say.

To the ones who think I'm bragging or full of myself - not so. I report about my dating experiences, the good ones AND the bad ones. If I was "full of myself", I'd never admit to having bad dates, being stood up, lied to, cheated on. But I do. And I also report about the good things - which are: people IRL DO think I look younger (sorry, just saying how it is), I DO get lots of messages from young hot guys (as I'm sure other women do as well), and in general, men have no problem paying for my dates. What am I supposed to do, lie about my experiences so others feel better about themselves? If anything, I hope to inspire other (older) women that fun can be had on dating websites. That women do not "lose their appeal" after a certain age. That women do not age "worse" than men. And again - I don't know how many times I have to say it - I DO date men who are older or my ages as well, not just younger ones. There are a lot more single younger guys out there though, so of course I'm going to meet more of those (and I'm fine with that). And yes, as a rule, younger men look better than older men, just like most younger women look better than older women. There is someone for everyone though, so no need to get all bent out of shape.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 836
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Posted: 3/16/2016 11:09:39 PM

If I was "full of myself", I'd never admit to having bad dates, being stood up, lied to, cheated on. But I do.

I don't think you'd win any awards for being "full of yourself" -- but people very full of themselves will write and complain about that stuff. That doesn't take away from someone being full of themselves. They'll talk about being screwed over by others just like anyone else -- or even more so.

people IRL DO think I look younger (sorry, just saying how it is), I DO get lots of messages from young hot guys (as I'm sure other women do as well), and in general, men have no problem paying for my dates. What am I supposed to do, lie about my experiences so others feel better about themselves?

No, that's not being "full of yourself", no. I think some of your posts conveying/acting like you aiming & Wanting to pay in certain instances but with an attitude of "Shoot, they won't let me. I'd like to, but what's a girl to do?" certainly don't convey full-of-oneself.

However, other posts that overshadow that, and should be noted is the very different POV conveyed by you with the "I deserve" motif -- and that a guy's less of a man if he doesn't pay up. I think that's where most of the eyebrows being raised are coming from. I don't think it's you dating younger guys by itself at all, no.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 837
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Posted: 3/16/2016 11:36:36 PM
There are lots of suckers out there, that's nothing new. I know guys that waste money calling telephone psychics and taking women on expensive vacations. I have nothing against taking someone on vacation and paying the bill if the other person can't afford it, but the women they bring don't even appreciate it. I'd rather go for a walk to feed some Canada geese with a woman that's actually nice and wants to spend time together.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 838
who pays
Posted: 3/17/2016 3:17:52 AM

...men have no problem paying for my dates.


You have said before, that as soon as he stops paying, you stop dating him. If you're classifying the dates as "my dates", why is it you never intend to pay "my bill"-or his as well if he treated you to free meals in the past?
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 839
who pays
Posted: 3/17/2016 4:30:34 AM
Isn't it odd how ~ 99% of people " look much younger than their actual age" ..45 year olds being carded at bars..people thinking that their child is their sibling..etc, etc.
when's the last time you heard someone say, "I look older than my actual age" ?
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 840
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Posted: 3/17/2016 6:05:44 AM
Karma darling, why even worry about people who don't agree with our approach to dating? They are obviously not the people we would date, so it irrelevant.

There's will always be a different between a shot of Henny XO (about $50 a shot), and the Vodka they serve when they are offering cheap drinks to get the girls to come to the club. And that's how the cookie will always crumble.

People stick to what they can afford and women accept whatever reflects their value and worth.
 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 841
who pays
Posted: 3/17/2016 6:30:32 AM

However, other posts that overshadow that, and should be noted is the very different POV conveyed by you with the "I deserve" motif -- and that a guy's less of a man if he doesn't pay up. I think that's where most of the eyebrows being raised are coming from. I don't think it's you dating younger guys by itself at all, no.


Sometimes it's one sided. It's about what a man should do to satisfy a woman, a man should appreciate being with a "quality" woman etc, what a woman's value and worth is etc. These things should work both right ways. When a man is on a date, his time and feelings should be just as important.
 Cdan1957
Joined: 9/17/2013
Msg: 842
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Posted: 3/17/2016 7:03:49 AM
I guess the point is Karma that no matter what the topic is you always find a way to slip in there that people think you look younger and that hot young guys are always contacting you. Even if the subject has absolutely nothing to do with how you look or who contacts you you always seem to find a way to toot your horn. Your profile has a couple of bikini pics and a photo shoot that looks topless. Your profile screams "lets fck" I tend to believe that most of the women your age and older are not looking for the same thing you are so I am not sure how many women here your age or older can relate to what you say.
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