|who paysPage 35 of 58 (18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58)|
You are the most important person in your life, and you should come first. It is not selfish to do what is right for you.
That sounds like a Machiavellian attitude. It is selfish if pursuing your own self interest comes at the expense of others.
Posted: 3/17/2016 12:03:34 PM
As long as he treats her with respect, value, appreciation, and love, he is in turn getting the same and whatever he seeks out of the dynamic.
I'll take that as a "close enough" to stating that men deserve respect, value, appreciation and love.
As for experience, you're young still and yes, 3 relationships and on to a 4th...for you that's "experience" while to many of us, its not all that much. But by the same token, you are far more experienced than some.
You can interpret it as you wish, the main point of it all is that there are things that men do for women when they really want to be in her life in more ways than horizontal.
The main point is also - there are things that women do for men when they really want to be in his life in more ways that what he spends on her (time and money).
Posted: 3/17/2016 12:44:57 PM
|Well, he must be doing something right.|
He's a millionaire with 2 ex wives.
Both marriages less then 10 years.
Posted: 3/17/2016 1:11:51 PM
|Clooney - even your Mars and Venus dude has been around the block more than a few times. He was married to that D'Angelo woman who wrote the same type of books and she's on hubby # 7 or 8. Hell, Dr. Phil is on #2.|
I think I'll take advice from someone wh0 made it at least past the 10 year mark. My older brother and his bride just celebrated their 40th. So, I'll ask him for guidance and not some putz millionaire that may well be applying for divorce #3 soon and have to go out there and buy a new cookie for himself.
Posted: 3/17/2016 1:46:24 PM
The point I didn't quite make was that Harvey avoided the '10 year' crossing line that equates to a long term relationship aka practically lifetime spousal support/alimony in many states.
Tom Cruise ducked out of his marriage to Nicole at the 9 year mark.
But yeah, I get the taking advice from someone who's been happily married over 10 years versus less.
Posted: 3/17/2016 4:33:27 PM
|Thinking of it on a per pound basis, maybe some are not so expensive. Do I have to pay more the bigger they are? Or less? A 200 pounder vs. A 300 pounder? Is there an inflection point somewhere on that graph, cost per pound, vs. Total poundage/weight? Will a good guy pay for the lipo and other required cosmetic surgery? A mil or 2 gets me an obese chick? Would a 400 pounder be less total cost? Only half a mil maybe?|
Posted: 3/17/2016 4:40:25 PM
|People want what they want. when I met my best female friend, she preferred taken men she could just have sex with. Could she be convinced that it was wrong to get all the guys she was getting? nope. did it annoy me then, that she would rather be with them than with a guy she knew well? yep. but it is, what it is.|
It isn't selfish to do what is right for you. It is selfish to screw other people in the process. The best advice, meanwhile, is likely the one that makes you contemplate it. Think about it for yourself. Take the thesis, consider an antithesis, and from those two, form a synthesis that fits you uniquely.
Posted: 3/17/2016 8:32:03 PM
Well, Steve didn't actually tell me anything but he did make it clear how to distinguish someone who is looking to have a future with you from someone who isn't.
Yup.... The girl who wants a future with me isn't going to worry about if I buy her everything and would rather have that be an occasional thing that she can appreciate, while the girl who demands that I pay for everything all the time just wants a future with my wallet, not me.
Funny, for guys, we don't need a celebrity to tell us how to have common sense, we just do it.
Posted: 3/18/2016 12:55:47 PM
KNOW THIS: It is your right to expect that a man will pay for your dinner, your movie ticket, your club entry fee, or whatever else he has to pay for in exhange for your time.
About as bad a flub as his Miss Universe flub. He's got a great personality, but that doesn't mean he's right. This line = Entitlement Syndrome. To be fair, this applies during the intro period of time when and only when he's chasing the girl and she's giving him 'a chance'. Outside of that, it's a Ridiculous POV. He also wrote in a book of his that the couple shouldn't have sex for Months. But I guess some folks will pick and choose what's true-because-he-said-it. :)
NO more "free lunches" so to speak for men
And women. Talk about "free lunches", especially if you agree with that Steve Harvey mantra saying that women are Entitled to a free lunch for merely their time (as if they're a legal escort). Although there's nothing to be sympathetic about your guy-friend-not-purely-just-a-friend who takes you out on Dates, that's a free lunch. Does your counselor say that's healthy that he picks you up and pays for everything on weekend Dates? Don't get me wrong, it's his own issue being too chicken personally or circumstantially to make a Clear move on you, but if you're not interested in being an item Or too much time flies by where things are going in that direction but he's still Taking you out on Dates -- that's not traditional, status quo, etc -- but more importantly & relevant, it's not healthy to continue in that direction.
- they have to show they value me, and yes, spending money on dates is one way of doing that.
You should have to show value to the guy just as much. How is spending money on You showing his value as a catch, besides showing he's financially viable (which could even be understood before a 1st date with some)? Let's just call a spade a spade. Like many things we take for granted but Expect, we don't think they're doing something great for us -- it's that we feel gyped/losing-out if suddenly we Weren't getting what we're getting.
As long as he pays for the privilege to get inside her. She shows up, he pays for the privilege.
Pretty much, yeah - lol. It's based on tradition -- and tradition is about women being lesser people set to be caregivers -- where they don't or hardly work for money, and the guy pays not to impress, but just to even have the date. But it's treated the same way to win someone/something over -- a 1-way street of the guy being the contestant doing songs & dances, and the woman being the panel of judges to decide on whether to open things up for him (acceptance).
A man just wants to feel loved, respected, honored and appreciated. You and Karma seem to forget that and go on and on about "its all about me".
The POV that's held by some is the same as if it's an ex-bf who's trying to win his ex-gf back where he "has a lot of 'splaining to do" -- where it should be all about her, and him certainly nothing to be worthy of being 'won over' in any way.
It's when a person (guy or gal) has a stance of Entitlement, of we-deserve we-deserve with nothing of substance to show for it, is what is clearly disrespect, and rightfully so. However, when it's "Hey, I like it when the guy pays for everything on any type of date, and you would too if you were on this side of the field," I respect that. And certainly have high regards if it's added with "But I certainly don't have any dislike when a guy's in position for me to contribute when it's date #x that wasn't Asked to Take me out or anything."
Posted: 3/18/2016 1:44:49 PM
|A question for those princesses who feel they should get a free ride in life because they were born with a vagina:|
During your arguments about why you should never pay for anything, there was no mention of a time when you might consider paying. What happens if you meet Mr. Wonderful Open Wallet man who you are head over heels over, and there's the chance of co-habitation-whether it's by marriage or living together arrangement? If you two decide to either get a place together or move into his place, is that still a he-pays-for-everything situation, or would you consider sharing the housing and living expenses? If you chip in for the expenses, would you pay 50% of all expenses, or would you expect a discount, because you still feel it's a man's job to take care of bills and expenses, since he's been doing it all along?
I've heard of the rare case where a baby was born with both a penis and vagina. That would be totally confusing later on in life when it comes to deciding who pays the bill on a date. If a guy dates conjoined twin sisters, would he be expected to pay for both every time on dates?
Posted: 3/18/2016 2:17:24 PM
|A 'keeper' will pay for the anti-chafing cream and eventually the gastric bypass or lap band insertion.|
Posted: 3/18/2016 2:45:29 PM
Steve Harvey is laughing on his way to the bank, while you're counting the last few bucks in your pocket and deciding between dinner or condoms.
There was a time when Harvey was a funny ass comedian and had his own hit sitcom, that's why his bank account is large, I don't think it has to do with him being an so called relationship expert. The same guy who cheated on both his ex-wives and on wife #3, Harvey is also coming from a Christian perspective and tells women not to date Atheists but the bible also looks down divorces and extramartial affairs but what do I know? I'm just a fellow Christian who doesn't judge.
It is your right to expect that a man will pay for your dinner, your movie ticket, your club entry fee, or whatever else he has to pay for in exhange for your time
Because my time and value as a human being doesn't mean shit apparently. I'm not a human being, my body is just a shell with no soul, really just a walking penis with two balls who carries a wallet. I don't have interests, I don't have emotions, I'm not a complex person, apparently I just want to get laid and I'll have to pay up to even have the privilege to do so. I should feel so lucky to even have the chance to enter such a golden vagina who's juices flow from the wineries of Portugal. My time is just as valuable, there's a shit I could be doing by myself, I could be playing "The Division" I could be working out, I could be finishing my story for graduate school, I could be partying it up, there are things I could be doing but not because I'm spending time with a girl that I like, that's how I'm really showing interest, I rather not have my time wasted by a girl who's not interested in me.
You should have to show value to the guy just as much. How is spending money on You showing his value as a catch, besides showing he's financially viable (which could even be understood before a 1st date with some)? Let's just call a spade a spade. Like many things we take for granted but Expect, we don't think they're doing something great for us -- it's that we feel gyped/losing-out if suddenly we Weren't getting what we're getting
It's a classic example of Worthington's Law (More money=Better than)
I can show a girl how much I value her without spending a dime, there's a lack of creativity in dating and it shows in this forum all the time.
Posted: 3/18/2016 4:51:43 PM
|Steve may had been funny 10 years ago. If he is an relationship expert 'm happy to predict your future for $50.00|
As a natural blonde I do kinda have the golden vagina. Where do these lines come from - Memes?
Bless you Darling Blackwood for knowing Worthington's Law
We need to compost Lessington's Law
Posted: 3/18/2016 7:36:49 PM
How is that working out for you? You're constantly bragging about all of the guys you've dated and will be dating, but there's no mention of a steady, long term boyfriend or The One, or anything else serious, There is just a line-up of guys waiting for the opportunity to buy you meals for no particular reason, and you have no reservation about using them as your personal ATM. The only place I would take someone who is just after a free meal is to the local soup kitchen at the homeless shelter. The demanding of men to provide you with free dates seems more like a revenge thing for you, to get back at the men who didn't treat you like the Queen of Womanhood in the past. You need to find an unbiased counselor.
First of all, I'm not bragging. I'm talking about DATING on a DATING forum. I also talk about the bad dates I've had and the guys who've rejected me, I would not call that bragging. But I'm also going to tell the truth, and that is, I have no problem getting dates. As far as "THE ONE" (is there such a thing?) - I was married for 20 years, so I'd say I have enough long term relationship experience and I'm in no rush being "locked down" again, unless I meet someone who is pretty close to perfect. Anything less is just not going to do it, just being honest.
Having said that, there have been several longer term relationships after my marriage ended in spring 2012. The longest one lasted seven months. I was also involved with someone for 2.5 years off and on, and he was the main reason I was not ready to seriously date anybody else. Ever since that ended last summer, I just have not had the desire to really date anyone, even though there have been several guys who were pretty interested. Just didn't feel it though, the breakup last summer really got to me and I've been focusing more on myself and my needs. I bent over backwards for most men in my life, and had to learn to put down boundaries and think of myself first.
I don't use men, the OFFER and ASK to take me out. Of course I'm not going to say no, why would I? I'm sure these guys are looking out for themselves first, just like I am. Everybody is. If they don't want to pay, that's perfectly fine with me, but it's just a turn off for me. Why am I obligated to be "OK" with going dutch? I don't like it, and if a guy were to insist, I'd pay my share and never see him again. For some people, dating overweight people is a deal breaker, for me, going dutch the first few times is a deal breaker. Just like a man has a right to not see me again if he doesn't like me because of how I look or how I act, I have the same right. And a man who can't buy me a happy meal is just turn off to me.
Posted: 3/18/2016 8:00:35 PM
Why am I obligated to be "OK" with going dutch? I don't like it, and if a guy were to insist, I'd pay my share and never see him again. A man who can't buy me a happy meal is just turn off to me.
Spoken like a true diva princess!
Posted: 3/18/2016 8:40:05 PM
|If a person had a pattern of being used by partners in the past, and has decided the solution is to continue dating in terms of keeping score, but this time being the winner and not the loser....that person might still have a problem finding a healthy relationship that is not about what they GET, but what they share together. Of course, how many healthy people are out there to have healthy relationships? perhaps there is joy in numbers.|
Posted: 3/18/2016 8:53:43 PM
|Does Harvey have tips on how to deal with the thunder thigh chafing? Might be more pertinent /useful..info..|
Posted: 3/18/2016 9:24:50 PM
|^^^^^^^^^That's the reason why the long legged briefs were invented for you guys...;-)|
Plus...it keeps your bits from sticking to your thighs....so, I've been told.
Whoever wants to....there settled!
Posted: 3/18/2016 9:25:53 PM
|So, after 37 pages... Who pays?|
Posted: 3/18/2016 10:21:05 PM
counselor suggested I put up better boundaries and do what I'm doing now. NO more "free lunches" so to speak for men - they have to show they value me, and yes, spending money on dates is one way of doing that.
In other words, a man has to "prove" himself before you start spending money on him. Yet when a man has a similar attitude about not spending a lot of money on a woman in the beginning, he is considered "cheap" and "not a gentleman" by some women. LOL.
Posted: 3/19/2016 2:18:15 AM
...NO more "free lunches" so to speak for men
That's a funny way to put it, considering she is after free lunches, free dinners, free everything else from men.
Posted: 3/19/2016 10:52:06 AM
I can show a girl how much I value her without spending a dime, there's a lack of creativity in dating and it shows in this forum all the time.
When it comes to meshing with someone else's interest, not spending Any money on anything in a lengthy timeframe, even when out with friends, isn't so easy to do. I think it's easier when it's a matter of very little money. "Meet me in the woods, we'll take a walk," won't fly with too many gals you haven't met yet on POF -- but aside from the humor, even among girls who are looking to pay for things, given most environments & popular tastes, there's usually going to be something that'll at least cost maybe not many dollars, but will cost several dimes.
With that said, I do agree that one can show a gal how much he values her or values a date with her without making his wallet hardly taking a punch. But some gals use the logic that him paying for everything is showing value to her -- it would have to weigh on financial sacrifice. Said gals will have any problem with guys using coupons or bringing her somewhere where he gets a free movie/dinner and such. But other gals who demand to get paid for as The-Way, even if he's not asking to Take her out, is because a lot of guys go out of their way to do it no matter what... so they take it for granted and then when a guy doesn't, they feel like something's wrong as it's against their conditioning. They can't logically explain why guys Should in the modern era when it wasn't a date where he asked to Take her out... it's more than a mere preference. In the end when challenged on it, it ends up being a "just because". There's nothing she earned when I'm not chasing her or asking to take her out -- but for guys like myself who don't like it when I think about it, it's a "just because" too.
I don't use men, the OFFER and ASK to take me out.
When they ask to take you out and you accept -- there's no argument on the who-pays. Seriously, no argument. You're doing just fine there. The only Potential issue would be if you potentially like him or not. As long as there's actual potential and it's not liking the act of going out by itself (especially when paid for), then You're All Good.
If they don't want to pay, that's perfectly fine with me, but it's just a turn off for me.
If it's perfectly fine with you, it can't be a turn-off. I think this sentence reflects the complications people have about justifying it, not wanting to look bad, when, yeah, sorry -- call a spade a spade. It isn't fine with you. You see him as less of a man, a turn off to you, and not what a guy Should be doing (ex: saying a real bad joke, etc).
Why am I obligated to be "OK" with going dutch?
You're obligated to Appreciate it if he wants to pay for everything. Feeling entitled isn't appreciating it, even though one out of staged courtesy can say thank you. But let's be real, it's not about going-dutch which is splitting it as an even 50-50 right then and there. Any form of him not paying the Whole thing almost all the time, whether he asked to take you out or not on date #x, is going to be your turn-off and seeing him as lesser a person. It's not purely a mere taste issue. A mere taste issue would be "I don't like guys with beards/purely-shaven," or "I don't like overweight guys." This is different because it's not merely about taste but about judging them -- as you see them paying for Everything virtually every time as The Way it's supposed to be. Otherwise, you wouldn't refuse to ever see him again if he didn't.
The argument isn't about a taste issue -- but about the judgment on them... about judging obligations. When the guy asks to Take you out and you accept because you Like him in that way -- he is obligated to pay. But other than that? What's the obligation that he always has to pay for Everything every time? Remember -- no free lunches, right?
Posted: 3/19/2016 11:46:51 AM
I almost wish the focus would come off of you already, because for my part the idea isn't to pile-on or single-out, so I'm just about tired by now of the dialogue being as it is. But, you keep putting things out there which are too good of an example by which to explain my points...not for the purpose of belittling or criticizing, even though that's an inevitable by-product sometimes...but just to demonstrate and make myself clear.
I don't use men, the OFFER and ASK to take me out. Of course I'm not going to say no, why would I?
Why would you say no? Gee I wonder...
This demonstrates an instance when your intentions were not from having an interest in the man. You just said that you don't use men, but then showed that an interest in the man has no bearing on saying yes to his invitation for a date...only the fact that he asked you out (it being an opportunity to be taken out). And intrinsic in this is the thinking that if there is any fault or obligation, then it is all his because he was the one who asked you out - the fact that he asked you out excuses you from any obligation to say 'yes' only because you are interested in him, as opposed to saying yes only because he asked you and you don't see any reason to turn down that opportunity to be taken out.
Why am I obligated to be "OK" with going dutch?
Only speaking for myself - you're not obligated to go dutch. But you should be obligated to be honest. If you're not saying yes to a date request because you're interested in the man, then you're being dishonest.
You need to do what's right for you. But my point in all this is that your attitudes about these things indicate and prove what your intentions and motivations are in dating. Unless you just don't have the sense to understand all of this or don't care to try, and are just unwittingly shooting yourself in the foot. It happens. A lot. We all screw up in some way or another.
If they don't want to pay, that's perfectly fine with me, but it's just a turn off for me...and [would] never see him again
We all know very clearly that it's such a turn-off. But WHY is it a turn-off? We know the reasons given, and the explanations for those reasons. But do you really understand those reasons or the explanations for them? Do you really feel like they make sense? Does it all match the kind of guy that you really want, or claim that you want?
If so, if it all does match who you want, then I wouldn't claim that that's wrong. Or that you won't find who you need to find. But all of this ^ is the point here.
Posted: 3/19/2016 12:17:35 PM
|I wonder how much the views around all this have to do with upbringing? While my father was the financial provider in our home, he strongly stressed that I should be able to provide for myself financially. It's never occurred to me that I shouldn't pay my own way. I'm greatful for this. I feel that any other way could create a power imbalance, among other problems.|
Posted: 3/19/2016 3:02:47 PM
|HAHA...I dont go on that many dinner dates unless they sound like substance...which is never the case....its rare with the dinner thing and when it happens I do pay but again its usually lunch....until it might go further but the best would be a drink and chat....if you cant find out what she about then .....you might just give up...lol....good luck!|
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