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 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 895
who paysPage 36 of 58    (18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58)
I understand the skin care regime for an abundance of stretch marks from rapid weight gain/change can be quite expensive.
 NJgirl116
Joined: 7/3/2015
Msg: 896
who pays
Posted: 3/20/2016 8:15:28 AM

My dad is a fantastic provider

I think family memories do matter. My father was not around when I was growing up. My grandmother and my mother were the providers. Now as an adult, my mother and I have a joint household and have zero debt. My marriage was brief and I don't date much so "who pays" is not an issue - no one gets near our money.
 AngeL_FeaT
Joined: 3/17/2016
Msg: 897
who pays
Posted: 3/20/2016 8:58:15 AM

First of all, I'm not bragging. I'm talking about DATING on a DATING forum. I also talk about the bad dates I've had and the guys who've rejected me, I would not call that bragging. But I'm also going to tell the truth, and that is, I have no problem getting dates. As far as "THE ONE" (is there such a thing?) - I was married for 20 years, so I'd say I have enough long term relationship experience and I'm in no rush being "locked down" again, unless I meet someone who is pretty close to perfect. Anything less is just not going to do it, just being honest.

Having said that, there have been several longer term relationships after my marriage ended in spring 2012. The longest one lasted seven months. I was also involved with someone for 2.5 years off and on, and he was the main reason I was not ready to seriously date anybody else. Ever since that ended last summer, I just have not had the desire to really date anyone, even though there have been several guys who were pretty interested. Just didn't feel it though, the breakup last summer really got to me and I've been focusing more on myself and my needs. I bent over backwards for most men in my life, and had to learn to put down boundaries and think of myself first.

I don't use men, the OFFER and ASK to take me out. Of course I'm not going to say no, why would I? I'm sure these guys are looking out for themselves first, just like I am. Everybody is. If they don't want to pay, that's perfectly fine with me, but it's just a turn off for me. Why am I obligated to be "OK" with going dutch? I don't like it, and if a guy were to insist, I'd pay my share and never see him again. For some people, dating overweight people is a deal breaker, for me, going dutch the first few times is a deal breaker. Just like a man has a right to not see me again if he doesn't like me because of how I look or how I act, I have the same right. And a man who can't buy me a happy meal is just turn off to me
.

One of the smartest ladies in the forums!
 cassie2425
Joined: 3/4/2016
Msg: 898
who pays
Posted: 3/20/2016 9:01:58 AM
NJgirl . That's a very interesting statement . And very telling.

I wonder if maybe we should be worrying more about who has a closed heart than who has an open wallet.

Actually, there is a bunch of stuff I wonder about, like, why is it easier for some to have sex with another persona than it is to buy them dinner? Even the OP, they had by date 10 already had sex yet the OP's lady wouldn't spring for lunch. You will allow a man's penis inside you but you won't spring for dessert and a glass of wine.


One of the smartest ladies in the forums!


Not so, not one of the smartest, not by far. There are far smarter on here that garner respect.
 ThroatLozenge
Joined: 3/2/2016
Msg: 899
who pays
Posted: 3/20/2016 9:06:16 AM
Dinner is easier for some that ran out of blue pills.

YMMV
 SLAFFA
Joined: 8/13/2007
Msg: 900
who pays
Posted: 3/20/2016 10:40:38 AM
It IS 2016 folks.

Which means it is NOT 1950!

If you are 45sh or older and maintain rigid thinking on this and/or have responded to this thread more than 5 times?

OLD is not for you... and chances are good that your OLD results thus far have been poor.

IF who pays for what is important to you, SPEAK UP. TALK to the other person beforehand.

IF you are doing OLD and are UNsharp enough to cough up 40, 50 or possibly way more bucks for a FIRST meet?

If that is working for you, no reason to stop.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 901
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/20/2016 11:21:35 AM

We all know very clearly that it's such a turn-off. But WHY is it a turn-off?

Because most guys will. She (and others) would be in the Same position if it caught on culturally that guys give a gal a $20 tip at the end of each date night. There doesn't need to be a current reason -- it is because it is, it is because it was. So when a guy's only going to give her a 5-dollar bill or nothing at all, she's going to get ticked and will cry out that she's Never going to see that guy again. She'll bring up stories about how she said No-thats-okay but guys demanded she take a $20 on the doorstep. She'll try to come up with logical reasons why he should, especially if she doesn't ride the line of tradition elsewhere so much, but to only dig herself a hole even further. But at the end of the day, they're not so much lying to you, they're lying to themselves -- as it's fueled by the guys giving gals roughly a $20 tip at the end of each date. So when a guy doesn't tip her at the end of the night, she's measuring what she deserves by what she and her peers normally get. It's not about what's truly deserved.

"Why should I Not like a guy giving me a $20 tip at the end of the night? Should I say NO?" No, you shouldn't say No if you like him and guy-tipping-girl caught on culturally. But the true measure of an Adult is to not be high-school-ish, and emotionally Demand people do things "just because". Don't lie to yourself that it isn't about the money just because you're not trying or aiming to get rich off anything. It is about the money. Otherwise, you wouldn't walk away from a guy because he didn't give you a tip at the end of the night. If you are turned off at all because a guy doesn't give you roughly $20 at the end of the night -- it Is about the money, but you don't fully realize it. And saying that you're fine with taking a $10 tip from a struggling, handsome working guy isn't going to convince anyone of anything.

I wonder how much the views around all this have to do with upbringing?

It's upbringing, but not dependent on parental upbringing. For most, it's cultural upbringing. And not necessarily at a young age, as many times at a young age when nobody has a real job, gals will have experiences with BFs where she's contributing -- but as an adult, she'll flip her hair and scorn at a guy not paying for everything on date #x when he didn't ask to take her out. Why?

For the same reason if you paid junior high teachers $250k a year. You think if they gave them a paycut down to $200k, they'd be a-okay with it? Nope. To them, it's taking something Away from them -- even though they're still getting more than they deserve. It's called human selfishness. So to some gals, if you're going to surprise them with a change -- where the gal's supposed to pay the tip on a bill and/or buy a couple drinks for the nightcap -- even though it's not "dutch", she's not paying close to half, she's still going to think she's being gyped and the guys are cheapskates. All she's thinking about is me-me-me -- that she's not getting what she was getting before. Justification be damned. :)
 NJgirl116
Joined: 7/3/2015
Msg: 902
who pays
Posted: 3/20/2016 11:32:43 AM

NJgirl . That's a very interesting statement . And very telling.

Thank you. It was meant to be.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 903
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History
who pays
Posted: 3/20/2016 4:15:13 PM
So, how many people are really in these forums? Maybe 4, including myself? Reverse-studying you who talk to yourself through half a dozen avatars each hasn't really taught me much that's interesting. Shouldn't bother anymore.
 cassie2425
Joined: 3/4/2016
Msg: 904
who pays
Posted: 3/20/2016 4:38:24 PM
^^. 47, I counted. And only half of them pay.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 905
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History
who pays
Posted: 3/20/2016 4:52:48 PM
Pay? You mean that somebody actually pays? What are they paying for? There's nothing here to pay for.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 906
who pays
Posted: 3/20/2016 6:56:01 PM
why is it easier for some to open their legs than their wallet? Some people are more sensual than financial :)
 Blackwood85
Joined: 5/20/2013
Msg: 907
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History
who pays
Posted: 3/20/2016 6:56:53 PM

When it comes to meshing with someone else's interest, not spending Any money on anything in a lengthy timeframe, even when out with friends, isn't so easy to do. I think it's easier when it's a matter of very little money. "Meet me in the woods, we'll take a walk," won't fly with too many gals you haven't met yet on POF -- but aside from the humor, even among girls who are looking to pay for things, given most environments & popular tastes, there's usually going to be something that'll at least cost maybe not many dollars, but will cost several dimes.

With that said, I do agree that one can show a gal how much he values her or values a date with her without making his wallet hardly taking a punch. But some gals use the logic that him paying for everything is showing value to her -- it would have to weigh on financial sacrifice. Said gals will have any problem with guys using coupons or bringing her somewhere where he gets a free movie/dinner and such. But other gals who demand to get paid for as The-Way, even if he's not asking to Take her out, is because a lot of guys go out of their way to do it no matter what... so they take it for granted and then when a guy doesn't, they feel like something's wrong as it's against their conditioning. They can't logically explain why guys Should in the modern era when it wasn't a date where he asked to Take her out... it's more than a mere preference. In the end when challenged on it, it ends up being a "just because". There's nothing she earned when I'm not chasing her or asking to take her out -- but for guys like myself who don't like it when I think about it, it's a "just because" too.


The best date I've ever had was an Dave n'Busters type place before the concept of Dave n' Busters existed, it was a regular arcade with a lot of old school games that use nickels, there was also a cafe bar that served beer as well. Me and her had a great time and I spent maybe a total of maybe 10 dollars the entire night. Granted we were both 23 so maybe it didn't take much to please us back then. Recently me and another chick went to a bar and played pool, that bar also had a live band. While not terribly creative, I'll take it over a dinner and a movie, we both bought each other drinks and playing pool cost a dollar which she paid for because she had quarters and I didn't.

I think though the entire thinking is flawed, I could spend 50-200 dollars on a date and not give a shit about the girl and just trying to get laid and hope that my wallet accomplishes that eventually it's just two people putting on airs. The amount of money I spend on a first date doesn't mean shit, I could be financially irresponsible....I like that guy is a labeled cheap because he has a limit on what he'll spend but not financially responsible if he spends way too much more than he theoretically has but at the end of the day you're right, it really just boils down to them not wanting to pay because why pay when they're getting it for free? It's a perk that they don't want to lose and there will always be men out there that will pay no matter what, there's no rationalizing it but some women will try instead of just being honest with themselves.
 halcyon_skies
Joined: 7/27/2015
Msg: 908
who pays
Posted: 3/20/2016 10:47:42 PM

I wonder how much the views around all this have to do with upbringing? While my father was the financial provider in our home, he strongly stressed that I should be able to provide for myself financially. It's never occurred to me that I shouldn't pay my own way. I'm greatful for this. I feel that any other way could create a power imbalance, among other problems.


I've experienced this in my upbringing, too. My dad used to be fond of the quote: "He who pays the piper calls the tune." It has served me very well.
 Llove2laughtoo
Joined: 1/11/2016
Msg: 909
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 6:10:40 AM

Msg: 913
One of the smartest ladies in the forums!


Just because you say something doesn't make it true.
 Stellan77
Joined: 2/8/2016
Msg: 910
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 8:34:26 AM

One of the smartest ladies in the forums!


I think Karma has her own personal cheerleader.
 Cdan1957
Joined: 9/17/2013
Msg: 911
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 8:56:48 AM

I think Karma has her own personal cheerleader.


More like a pen name. Joined on the 17th, posted on the 20th and is already gone. Don't you have to wait a while afer joining before you can post?
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 912
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 8:57:56 AM
unless one analyzes dating, giving every part of it a conscious thought, yes, i'll agree that when it comes to relationships, we unconsciously fall back on what we saw at home...assuming we saw it "work". That said, someone might believe they should take care of themselves, but they also want to know their worth, and so they demand the other person pays in order to prove it....but in everything else, they are taking care of themselves, so they insist they are self reliant.

I thought angel feet was blondeangel? I gotta start putting post its on the laptop so I can keep up with the actors....
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 913
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 9:24:46 AM

Just because you say something doesn't make it true.

But unfortunately, if enough people say something -- including many peoples' maw & paw -- it becomes true 'just because'.

they also want to know their worth, and so they demand the other person pays in order to prove it....but in everything else, they are taking care of themselves, so they insist they are self reliant.

I think for most gals in society, that mindset is set in there as justification if/when they've had to think about it. I believe in a nutshell, it still exists in the modern era because it'd be very hard to take away, as it originated many generations ago out of mere practicality where women didn't work and they were auctioned off to the best catch/bidder.

So at this point, for a modern gal who doesn't need every date she goes on bought & paid for, taking something away is only going to be seen as taking something away. Much like if one's way overpaid at their job and a pay cut was imposed. Even if they're Still Overpaid, they're not going to realize it -- it's just something taken away and they'll be pissed about what they Deserve. Knowing that many gals aren't going to respond optimally or even kindly to this, guys on the dating market are not going to want to sacrifice their dating experiences to have girls get Used to different scale -- so they just let it roll, which keeps the out-dated wheels churning.
 Nth_degree1111
Joined: 9/16/2009
Msg: 914
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History
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 9:31:42 AM

I think Karma has her own personal cheerleader.


Because she too feels that a man has to prove his value to her. They are birds of a feather.
 Chromis1
Joined: 9/9/2015
Msg: 915
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 9:47:21 AM
NJgirl:

So, after 37 pages... Who pays?


Whoever wants to, right?

If neither wants to, it's "next", yes? Such a simple concept, yet ... 37 pages.
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 916
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 9:48:16 AM

.........we unconsciously fall back on what we saw at home...assuming we saw it "work". That said, someone might believe they should take care of themselves, ..............


LOL, "work"?
I learned early, that no one was going to take care of me, after high school.
"Should?" LOL No, Had to.

My father made a decent wage, my mom stayed home.

I found a daily journal belonging to my mom, about 23 years ago. I was helping her move, LEAVE the SOB she was married to for 38 years.
This journal was one of many.
From the first year of their marriage, my mom recorded EVERY nickel, yes I said nickel, she spent of HIS hard earned money.
In this journal she wrote, she had to justify her reason for spending the money to buy an under slip for me to wear under my dresses.
He made the money, he controlled the money, he spent the money. My mom had to ask.
No thank you!

LOL, While you're at it, GTO, loan me a pad of Post-its also. I'm curious how many times One angel can appear and reappear. Maybe it's a flyin' technique. LOL

Edit:


...........where women didn't work and they were auctioned off to the best catch/bidder.

I just gagged.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 917
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 10:00:21 AM

... yes, i'll agree that when it comes to relationships, we unconsciously fall back on what we saw at home...assuming we saw it "work"


That doesn't explain the issue on hand-which is should a guy be expected to pay for all expenses on all dates, since most people weren't even born when their parents started dating to witness who paid. What people witness is the arrangement a couple make post marriage as to what is the most financially viable option in order to raise kids and cover living expenses.

What do people see and learn when it comes to the dating world and dating rules, when they fall back on what they saw at home, if they were raised in a single parent home (which is very common)? Are single parents telling their daughters to only date guys who will always pays for everything, and telling their sons to always pay for everything on dates? If they are not being coached by a parent to follow those rules, where are some women getting the idea that they deserve a free ride in life at the expense of a guy, and it's his responsibility only to always have enough money to make a woman happy?
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 918
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History
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 11:03:34 AM

From the first year of their marriage, my mom recorded EVERY nickel, yes I said nickel, she spent of HIS hard earned money.

They were married, though. It was her money, too. She should be keeping track of it, because it's shared money -- especially if he's bringing in the money for the both of them.

He made the money, he controlled the money, he spent the money. My mom had to ask. No thank you!

Well, if she kept track of expenses, I think her having to ASK on frivalous things would be too much, of course. But he should be asking on big things, too. It's shared money ("Should we get a pool?"). It'd be crazy if a wife had the mindset that she didn't have to ask for that -- same with the guy.


where women didn't work and they were auctioned off to the best catch/bidder.
I just gagged.

Unfortunately, that was how it was. The reason we've seen age-of-consent go UP in very modern times in several states is because things were different back in "traditional times". My point is, one can't say one's BAD and the other is still good (men always-paying).

To your marriage scenario -- the closest comparison to the dating scene would be the girl not working and barely making ends meet, and not able to afford going out even by herself much at all... while the guy being self-sufficient. In that case, it's not out of an "I deserve", but more along the lines of feasibility To date that he'd pay for the dates.

In the end, what's the "line drawn"? It *should* be the same as two gay people going out. If one has a good job, and one's poor -- the person will the good job is going to be towing most the expenses when going out. Unfortunately, even allowing things to err on the side of the guy paying more still isn't going to cut it with Entitlement people. They want to treat the female as if she has almost zero money to her name on every date, even when they're beyond the point of him asking to take her out.
 cassie2425
Joined: 3/4/2016
Msg: 919
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 11:27:37 AM

From the first year of their marriage, my mom recorded EVERY nickel, yes I said nickel, she spent of HIS hard earned money.



They were married, though. It was her money, too. She should be keeping track of it, because it's shared money -- especially if he's bringing in the money for the both of them.


NG, you totally missed this one. I can't fathom having to account for every nickel I spent of "matrimonial" money. I find the scenerio mentioned by Lady to be disrespectful and I can't imagine living like that for years. Even "back in the day". This man literally did the "he who has the money is the boss and god of this relationship". NG, I totally disagree where you said "she should be keep track...". Nope, its household money used for the family unit and she should not have to account for a dollar on a loaf of bread or 20 bucks for a pair of shoes for little Johnny. Having to account for nickels is control freak shit.

I did not see anything remotely like this in my parents marriage and my father was the primary wage earner and my mother worked part time out of the home later on when the 4 of us children were well into our teens. My parents had a shared partnership and the "togetherness" of their relationship and how they treated each other with respect, kindness and love was a model for me as well as my siblings as we all have/had long and successful relationships.
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