Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Dating Experiences  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 920
who paysPage 37 of 58    (18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58)

So, after 37 pages... Who pays?

Everyone should pay for themselves, or just stay home if they can't cut it. That would solve all this silliness.
 Blackwood85
Joined: 5/20/2013
Msg: 921
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 2:21:28 PM

I did not see anything remotely like this in my parents marriage and my father was the primary wage earner and my mother worked part time out of the home later on when the 4 of us children were well into our teens. My parents had a shared partnership and the "togetherness" of their relationship and how they treated each other with respect, kindness and love was a model for me as well as my siblings as we all have/had long and successful relationships.


Pretty much the same with my parents, they did what worked for them and they just adapted to the situation, when my Dad was in the Marines, my Mom stayed at home and watched us and worked on getting her degree in early childhood education, she opened up a home daycare eventually and made money that way. Then when we moved to Chicago, my Dad still worked in the Marines and my Mom worked in a daycare, my sister and I were old enough to watch ourselves at that point and were expected to take care of the house while they were gone. Then when we moved back to NC, they both worked, my Dad was out of the Marines by that point and my Mom worked as well, me and my sister were in high school at that point. Sometimes one of them worked and the other didn't depending on the circumstances. My Dad loved cooking so he cooked dinner all the time and took care of the house while My mom worked and when my Mom quit doing daycare and was out of a job for a few months she did the household stuff.

Their entire marriage taught me that flexibility in any relationship is important and shit can happen at anytime. I also learned not to let shit get to me and stay on an even keel and that money isn't everything. So if a woman wants me to show my value to her and how much I value her through my wallet then we're not a good match now she'll miss out on the other good qualities like my faithfulness, loyalty, my sick sense of humor, my awkward good looks, some other abilities that I won't share of a sexual nature but hey maybe they'll find their rich nice guy, who am I to really criticize someone's dating philosophy.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 922
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 2:37:33 PM
Oh, and another thing...

A lot of the explanations for some people's adopted dating etiquette is some form of "that's how it's been done" or "parents and grandparents did it that way". Referring to some particular "traditional" perspective.

Some of us who're advocating the appropriateness of not expecting the other to pay for you during first-dating and paying for yourself, are including in that issue the question of whether or not someone has put any thought or effort into examining the logic behind how they operate.

There are many things that have been done a certain way in the past, but are no longer. And that's because we reexamine those things to recognize what might be wrong or inappropriate about them, in order to evolve and grow up. Every person's life includes doing this very thing in many areas. Or at least should. This is, or should be, a truth for each person, for each generation, for each era, and so on. Otherwise we'd still have all kinds of evil and inhumane aspects to our society. The reader is thinking of a few right now, aren't you?

So, the fact that something is some kind of behavioral tradition in some way is a good explanation to the question of 'why', for understanding why it's there. But not an excuse. And not any kind of logical justification by itself. After a certain point, it on the other hand is no longer a good answer to the question of 'why'.

A person can easily choose to exploit and benefit from an inappropriate norm simply because they can, due to the fact that it is a passed-down norm and goes unquestioned...but that is no excuse if that norm happens to be bad or inappropriate nonetheless.

Some of us who strongly butt-up against the idea of 'going dutch' being a turn-off, and expecting a man to pay and TAKE a woman out during first-dating...we don't only have a problem with it being inappropriate and nonsensical, but we're wanting also to find out if the woman in question is the kind of person who puts any effort into examining herself and her own behavior...or is she the kind of person who'll choose to exploit something even though it's wrong due to it being an unquestioned element of behavioral zeitgeist. Going to a bar with the intention of getting guys to buy her drinks, for example, but with no interest whatsoever in any of those guys nor being honest with them about her lack of interest. Or a waitress being flirtatious, for another example, in order to get some tips but not being interested at all in the guy she happens to be waiting on. Or screaming 'abuse' or 'rape' when it isn't taking place, because she knows that people generally have one attitude about men, and another about women. Things like that.

Also...in places like the U.S.A (not only) we have both a very diverse cultural mix as well as stark contrasts between generations and between any given lingering remnants of various stages of our collective evolution as a nation culturally. We've done a lot, been through a lot, and come a long way...concerning many cultural and societal questions. Therefore, whenever anyone scoffs at the idea of these topics being discussed and argued over so deeply, they should think again. It is to be expected.
 Butterchickenchuck
Joined: 9/18/2015
Msg: 923
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 2:48:12 PM
I don't mind the tradition of paying for the first date any more than holding a door open for a woman.

However, if she doesn't at least OFFER to fork over some moola during the second date I'm going to file her under "self entitled mooching Princess " and move on.

Mama didn't raise no suckers.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 924
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 5:04:46 PM
"That doesn't explain the issue on hand-which is should a guy be expected to pay for all expenses on all dates, since most people weren't even born when their parents started dating to witness who paid. What people witness is the arrangement a couple make post marriage as to what is the most financially viable option in order to raise kids and cover living expenses."

>>>good point, Maleman, so i'll stand corrected. I can say my first lessons in proper dating came from my parents talking to me, which could very well have been venting about what wasn't going on in their marriage. For example, my mother's comments about not trying to take a woman to bed straightaway, but courting her, could very well have been a lament the typical marriage lacking a "date night". I can look back and attest, it screwed me with a few gals who weren't looking to be romanced, just fooled around with. but anyway,i think we might indeed listen to what our parents say about the issue...or maybe what they don't. or maybe nothing gets mentioned, so we learn elsewhere.

If a parental unit has nothing to say about what to expect on a date, i'm sure there are movies and TV shows and the like showing what the "cool dude" does, or what the shlep fails to do. I think, tho, dating is such a personal thing, we either follow a lead from somewhere, or we have a plan to get what we want from a date. In other words, we fellows might pay b/c we "Don't know any better", or b/c it makes us feel like a provider, or b/c we want something in return, or....

I think when it comes to dating, there's a lot of rules we follow for some reason or the other. Or games we play or refuse to play, for some reason. we don't always date to get laid, but to get a lot of things.
 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 925
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 7:14:53 PM

I think Karma has her own personal cheerleader.


There were a few other women that agreed with Karma. Eternity and Sunshine girl. But both profiles were deleted.
 rockstartrucker82
Joined: 11/22/2015
Msg: 926
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 7:19:10 PM

I don't mind the tradition of paying for the first date any more than holding a door open for a woman.

However, if she doesn't at least OFFER to fork over some moola during the second date I'm going to file her under "self entitled mooching Princess " and move on.

Mama didn't raise no suckers.


I'm kind of the opposite. The first couple dates are usually something free, but I'll cover something cheap, but I'm not buying a girl dinner. I've had way too many first dates, I'm done just being there for a free meal or a free ticket to something. But I'll happily treat a GF to almost everything.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 927
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/21/2016 11:05:46 PM

I can't fathom having to account for every nickel I spent of "matrimonial" money.

As I said -- as you're missing something -- keeping track of frivalous things (namely every nickel) is too much. But if someone's doing the shopping for the family and all the stuff for the kids, sure -- keeping track of expenses is a good thing if they're tight on money (or the person doing the spending has spending problems). People will do it just for themselves, so I can see if one's bringing in all the $, and the other person is going out doing the expenditures, it's good to Generally keep track.

So, the fact that something is some kind of behavioral tradition in some way is a good explanation to the question of 'why', for understanding why it's there. But not an excuse. And not any kind of logical justification by itself.

I agree. People think because something's tradition it = good. But again, people aren't going to see it the way you want them to see it. Their Emotions are driving it. You're Taking something Away from them if they're not getting what they're used to getting, justification be damned. The Dating Market has kept this 'tradition' in place because guys compete for gals' attention (and post-date affection). So if most guys are doing it + grandmaw's tradition says so -- you really think as a population they're going to question their free feedings & shows? Heck no. The guy who balks at paying for it all is going to be seen as a cheapskate. And even if the population of guys one day were to stop paying unless it's only a certain type of date where he's chasing her affection and asking to Take her out -- you really think that's going to last very long? Of course not -- guys would compete by offering to pay no matter what to garner a gal's interest, and we'd be back to where we started (now). :)

we don't only have a problem with it being inappropriate and nonsensical, but we're wanting also to find out if the woman in question is the kind of person who puts any effort into examining herself and her own behavior ..... Going to a bar with the intention of getting guys to buy her drinks, for example, but with no interest whatsoever in any of those guys nor being honest with them about her lack of interest.

I don't think it's like that, although I do believe there's a sub-group of gals who are at least willing to do on the dating platform much like the gals going to a bar wanting to get guys to buy them drinks. If it was the case for dates bought & paid for purely by the guy 90%+ of the time, you'd find Much Less women Expecting a guy to pay. Most women, IMO, who Expect or feel Entitled to it see it as Respect by the guy. They expect and/or feel entitled to Respect. They take it the same way a modern, rational gal will take it as if the guy specifically asked to Take her out on a 1st date and she agreeing -- but him merely being "the man", in the Entitled gal's mind, equates to that Always being the case, regardless of what he says or how the date was formed... because, well, he's "the man" and she's the "lady". Him NOT paying is Disrespect for use of a lady's time with him and opportunity to go out on a Date, as she feels. There's a separate time and place for her to buy him a gift or cook him something at some point. Obviously said Entitlement women's minds will vary to a certain degree, but I've had the conversation with many a gal who's on the entitlement-side of the field, and they pretty much agree that's how things roll.
 cassie2425
Joined: 3/4/2016
Msg: 928
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 5:45:54 AM
NG, still not getting it. Go read #932 again and to me hat Ladybwas describing a happy and healthy relationship between her parents. Lady's mother was leaving him after 38 control freak years where she has to justify spending every nickel. This was not Ozzie and Harriet happily keeping a weekly ledger and sharing a glass of wine. There was a couple like this on Dr. Phil yesterday - he was pressuring his wife to quit nursing their son at 8 months as it was attention seeking on her part, he had all pass codes to her phone, computer, email address and Facebook and monitored hem daily. Control freak. If I have to account for every nickel, I'm with a control freak. This is not love, this is sick.
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 929
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 7:05:24 AM
I don't think any family values can come into play when we are discussing who pays for a date.
Should it be the person with the most disposable income? The less attractive one? The one with a hidden agenda?
I honestly never thought who pays would be such a freaking deal breaker.
I too cannot imagine accounting for every nickel.
My Mother taught me to always have my own money. Simple.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 930
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 9:07:09 AM
the more one wants a dating situation to mean something, symbolize something...the more complicated they make it. Those who are just interested in having a fun time...do so with like-minded individuals.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 931
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 10:14:11 AM

Lady's mother was leaving him after 38 control freak years where she has to justify spending every nickel.

As I said, again, it's too much (control freak) to have to record every nickel. Finances are unfortunately something that causes fights -- which leads to the subject itself, where actually, if one person is bringing home everything and the other person is doing all the shopping & buying, keeping track of expenses On a Reasonable Level can be a good thing. Even for a single person. No need to throw out the concept altogether because of control-freaks about it, is my point.

I don't think any family values can come into play when we are discussing who pays for a date.

I think the society's tilted perspective does resort to family-values ("tradition") as it's main backing.

Should it be the person with the most disposable income?

"Oh, Sally, you make $65k as a teacher. I make $62k, and there's really no differences on our tax deductions, so... you pay the waiter, babe."

The less attractive one?

"Oh, Billy, I paid in the beginning because I was out of shape. But I got in shape and you let yourself go over these last several months, so... get the bill until ya hit the treadmill..."

The one with a hidden agenda?

"Oh, Sally, I got this bill. I have a hidden agenda with you tonight, so paying's the least I could do... Waiter?"

I honestly never thought who pays would be such a freaking deal breaker.

IRL, it isn't as much... because most guys gals run into are going to pay, as they don't want to risk rocking the boat and making any deal breaker. But it's Potentiality there, unfortunately. If we had a temporary sub-cultural movement where a majority of guys weren't going to get the whole bill and were either splitting it or you-get-this-one-i-got-next without budging, you would see a cultural WTF reaction by the ladies. It certainly wouldn't be shrugged off as "no big deal" by ladies in general.

It's never going to be treated on a gender-neutral scale, though -- with the help of "tradition" setting the tone, and advantage-female. But the male population is just as much to blame, though. There's guys who are going to want to pay even when not really trying to garner the gal's interest who's a working woman, but just not to rock the boat... and other guys who to "be a Man" are going to do so to keep those cultural wheels churning. When wonders why a gal feels Entitled -- I always say one can also ask the guy who always-insists on paying for a gal. He sheds light as to the emotional reasons why it is that way as the norm.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 932
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 10:55:09 AM

I honestly never thought who pays would be such a freaking deal breaker...
My Mother taught me to always have my own money. Simple.


Does that mean you would be fine going dutch or alternating who pays on dates? Or would you expect a guy to pay for the first few dates before offering to contribute? Yes, it is weird how some women would immediately drop a guy if he didn't want to pay the entire bill on a first meet or all subsequent dates. There's got to be more to it than the standard excuse "I'm traditional", but not traditional in anything else.
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 933
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 11:14:05 AM
Going back to Steve Harvey, I don't believe I claimed that he was a relationship expert, nor a good comedian, you guys are taking it to another level, a level I never implied. I simply agree with what he has put forward in his book.

As for the whole family values/traditions stuff, my dad was the provider by choice, and my mom's income (as she's a professional Baker) was her own income to use for whatever she wanted. He paid all the bills, he provided for all my siblings, we went out every weekend, and he bought my mom gifts. mainly jewelry, a car, perfume, flowers, etc. He also paid for my mom's classes to become a professional baker, and any other classes she wanted to take.

My father presented the fact that a woman should be able to fend for herself and not depend on a man, that that is the reason to acquire education and embark on a career. It was never implied that I should not make anything of myself because a man will take care of anything. If he had wanted to keep my mom financially strapped and completely dependent on him, he would not have paid for her classes nor let her practice her craft. So when he passed away, my mom still had her craft to fall back on, plus what he set up in the event of his death.

My God father, same thing, he took care of he whole bit, and my God mother did not have to work, but when they were both in the USA, they both worked, although her income was for her to keep to cover whatever personal expenses she said.

Now now, I totally understand that the majority of people simply cannot afford such a set up, but some can. My boyfriend will be moving in with me in a few months and we already discussed who is taking care of what. So he essentially agreed to take care of all household expenses, and for me to focus on paying down my debt. So there you have it *taking out tongue*, some men are just of a different quality.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 934
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 11:36:29 AM

Now now, I totally understand that the majority of people simply cannot afford such a set up, but some can. My boyfriend will be moving in with me in a few months and we already discussed who is taking care of what. So he essentially agreed to take care of all household expenses, and for me to focus on paying down my debt. So there you have it *taking out tongue*, some men are just of a different quality.


Is stupid a quality?
 cassie2425
Joined: 3/4/2016
Msg: 935
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 11:50:04 AM

So there you have it *taking out tongue*, some men are just of a different quality.




Is stupid a quality?


Exactly Coma.

You would think that someone that is so educated could have used a different word than "quality". I think even a mention of a different cultural belief would be more plausible than "quality". And some scoff at Sugar Daddy and Gold Digger or meal whore.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 936
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 11:52:34 AM

My Mother taught me to always have my own money. Simple.

It really is that simple.
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 937
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 11:54:18 AM
But of course stupid is a quality, lmao

Some people have managed to be so stupid, they are smart. Look at Kim Kardashian and her whole family, look at Paris Hilton, etc. Stupid as f*ck and make money out of making people think they are actually stupid. They are making money out of show casting their stupidity, and people are sitting in front of the TV, buying what they sell, following their every move, wanting to be like them.......so much they are actually supporting them.

If everyone who follows these women were to just stop, stop buying the crap they advertise, stop watching them on TV, stop buying gossip magazine, stop googling crap about them............the jig is up and they go broke.

Stupid is a quality that allows many people to make a living, either because of them, or inspite of them, off of them. etc. Sh*t, stupid is a quality that can potentially have Trump become the next President of the USA.

"If you cannot dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullsh*t"
 dragonbytes
Joined: 9/15/2015
Msg: 938
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 11:59:46 AM
It's understandable why the issue of who pays comes up frequently.

Many are living in the past, when women made less money than men, and men were expected to take care of women.

Now young women are making more than young men, so for those under 30 it's understandable why men feel women should contribute at least 50% of the expense.

Our society has changed faster than our traditions, some women are still living in the past.


But now there's evidence that the ship may finally be turning around: according to a new analysis of 2,000 communities by a market research company, in 147 out of 150 of the biggest cities in the U.S., the median full-time salaries of young women are 8% higher than those of the guys in their peer group. In two cities, Atlanta and Memphis, those women are making about 20% more.

But the new study suggests that the gap is bigger than previously thought, with young women in New York City, Los Angeles and San Diego making 17%, 12% and 15% more than their male peers, respectively.

The rise of female economic power is by no means limited to the U.S., nor necessarily to the young. Late last year, the Bureau of Labor Statistics announced that for the first time, women made up the majority of the workforce in highly paid managerial positions.


http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html

My parents, my father didn't want my mother to work, but he didn't make a lot of money and only gave her a meager allowance. Once we were in grade school, my mother got a part time job while we were in school in secret and didn't' tell my father. Then she bought him a watch, and told him about the job. The watch made it go over easier.

But eventually she was out earning him, and he never liked that.


Now now, I totally understand that the majority of people simply cannot afford such a set up, but some can. My boyfriend will be moving in with me in a few months and we already discussed who is taking care of what. So he essentially agreed to take care of all household expenses, and for me to focus on paying down my debt. So there you have it *taking out tongue*, some men are just of a different quality.


Same same ,but different. My wife gives me a 42% of her net salary so I can pay down my own credit card debt.
 Nth_degree1111
Joined: 9/16/2009
Msg: 939
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 12:20:35 PM

They are making money out of show casting their stupidity


*showcasing*
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 940
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 12:45:50 PM
Maleman
Yea I would be fine with it, I don't think keeping score is all that healthy.
The Man I was with until his death - our first date - we shared his lunch :) PB and J.
Together a lifetime.
However if anyone wants to come help with yardwork I'll buy you dinner.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 941
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 1:17:57 PM
And again, this right here is the telling part. It cannot be pressed that anything is unacceptable up to this point. What two people agree on is what they agree on, be it right or wrong, smart or dumb. But then you get this part. And this is what really tells you everything.

some men are just of a different quality
 Aprilovesrosasblancas
Joined: 2/24/2016
Msg: 942
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 3:56:39 PM

Same same ,but different. My wife gives me a 42% of her net salary so I can pay down my own credit card debt.


It's not same, because going By your pics your wife is a lot younger than you and different race, meaning they pay her less money than a normal white person.

Something does not sound right /fair/ here.
This man didn't pay for first date or anything, he only charged everything in a "C-CARD".

Let's analyze the situation of this woman:

She is young compared with "her husband", we all know what happens with men after 60, and we all know what happen with women in the 40's .....lol
She has to work hard while he is online all day
She has to pay back whatever he spent in her AND him from the time he met her.
She must love very much to be in US to accept that unfair deal life is giving her.

I hope she wakes up soon...and.........leaves.........and...... finds a man same age as her, have kids and a normal family.!
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 943
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 4:24:44 PM
the food bill alone will likely be enormous for someone who eats constantly
 Llove2laughtoo
Joined: 1/11/2016
Msg: 944
who pays
Posted: 3/22/2016 5:35:55 PM

Msg: 958
we all know what happens with men after 60


I am turning 60 in two weeks, can you share with us what happens to men after 60? I don't know what you are talking about.
Show ALL Forums  > Dating Experiences  >