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 Olivoil
Joined: 5/3/2015
Msg: 996
who paysPage 40 of 58    (18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58)
Exactly, crook_catcher.
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 997
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 8:55:48 AM
Great post Mr. Crookcatcher!

But could you define "initially" ?

Some of us would like to know exactly how many dates that's equates to.

Cause it might effect the choice of venue if say...we only have one left or none. ;) ;)
 Whatsamattababy
Joined: 12/24/2015
Msg: 998
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 8:59:14 AM

watch out for those gals that choose a place where you order and pay at the counter before seating.

She orders and quickly goes to get napkins.


Seriously, where do you find these people? I've maybe met one or two men like this in my life. I think you might have a gift.
 crook_catcher
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 999
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 9:00:38 AM

But could you define "initially" ?


Lol. Absolutely! It's anytime I'm the one doing the asking. ;)


 flman2015
Joined: 10/3/2015
Msg: 1000
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 9:06:26 AM


But could you define "initially" ?


Initially, definition while dating:

The man's first lifetime.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 9/15/2015
Msg: 1001
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 9:10:08 AM

Ladyinred0407 Sir Dragon, The other side here, LOL (of Lake Michigan), Aside from your silly notion that one can wear white socks with sandals, (still cracks me up) I think you and your wife are doing just fine. Who are we to decide what she should or should not do with her income?
The above quote from Belle, says it all!

Have a great, albeit rainy day! Sure beats the snow some folks are getting this week!


It's predicted that the rain will turn to snow tonight. Hoping the roads on Friday AM aren't all icy

aprilovesrosasblancas post didn't bother me in the least. I just found it weird that she thinks this is abusive, but had no problems with Belle in a very similar situation. I was trying to get to why she thinks it's so different or abusive. (or whipped which is what norwegianguy456 thinks about Belles BF.)


Now now, I totally understand that the majority of people simply cannot afford such a set up, but some can. My boyfriend will be moving in with me in a few months and we already discussed who is taking care of what. So he essentially agreed to take care of all household expenses, and for me to focus on paying down my debt. So there you have it *taking out tongue*, some men are just of a different quality.


My original post about this is that belle and myself are in very similar situations.


aprilovesrosasblancas It's not same, because going By your pics your wife is a lot younger than you and different race, meaning they pay her less money than a normal white person


Actually, I said "Same same ,but different". Which was a play on a common phase in Thailand.

It means similar but not identical.

First, we don't know the age of Belles BF, nor do we know his race. I don't know why you are assuming they are similar ages and the same race. And her BF is moving in with her, while I am married. Her BF is covering all household expenses so she can focus on paying down debt. My wife is contributing part of her salary to help pay down debt that was in my name.

But IMO age and race and marital status are irrelevant to this discussion.

Thus, IMO this remains a similar situation. If you think it's abusive for someone to help out their significant other, then I don't really know why anyone even has a significant other in their life. Just date in a casual way is the alternative.

How hot someone is on a scale from 1-10, who pays, how many nickels do we spend, did we use a coupon, who paid for coffee, who called last, how many times did we look at our phone, how long is initial? etc, etc.

IMO some people seem to measure everything, but know the value of nothing.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 1002
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 9:11:59 AM

watch out for those gals that choose a place where you order and pay at the counter before seating.

I choose places like this sometimes. Of course I like to get there a half hour early and get my own whatever and crack a book before someone I'm meeting arrives. So that has nothing to do with anything.

I noticed that some of the women who are of the belief that a man must pay the entire bill for every date are totally against something cheap like a coffee date. They would never step foot in a place like a coffee shop to meet someone and would turn down an invitation to meet there. Their idea of a date is free meals and free drinks, and the more a man spends on a date, the more he is valued as a "real" man. Some use the excuse "I don't like coffee." The coffee shops I know of sell a lot more than just coffee. They have as much selection as a diner. But it's the idea that's a turn-off. Maybe they're more concerned with impressing their girlfriends by telling them a guy she met was willing to spend a ton of money on her.

I prefer coffee places because they are cheap, convenient and I don't have to sit with someone for more than 20 or 30 minutes I have no further interest in (and vice versa). I find that men get offended that I won't sit down to a meal with them on a first meet - and it's weird because you'd think they want to save time and money too before interest is established. If I have to I'll agree to dinner somewhere I have already wanted to go and would go to alone anyway, and then they are free to join and add to the experience (or not).

I get the line "I don't like coffee" or "it feels too much like an interview" also. And sorry, but it is an interview - there can be no romantic aspect to a first meet since no one knows if there's interest yet. My point here is I'm not sure you can win if two people have different mindsets about this.

I pay because I enjoy their company and don't want the issue of whether or not they can afford it at the time to be a determining factor in them deciding to accept or not. I've never dated destitute women so their ability TO pay has never entered into the picture. Experience has shown me that if the dating continues with a woman the financial aspect equals out in the long run. But initially since I'm the one asking... I'll pay. Old school I know. ;)

It makes more sense to ask someone you have met, know you like and want to get to know than someone you haven't met yet - so in that case you "hope" to enjoy their company actually, but I agree at the end of the day it's your call (and it's theirs to agree to it or not). This is what makes the world go around.
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 1003
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 9:25:02 AM
"Initially, definition while dating:

The man's first lifetime."


Thank you so much for that information Mr. Flman.

Now....would you be a dear and make sure to spread the word about this?

That would solve all this confusion about who pays. :D
 flman2015
Joined: 10/3/2015
Msg: 1004
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 9:46:16 AM


Now....would you be a dear and make sure to spread the word about this?

That would solve all this confusion about who pays. :D


For you, I'd even spread butter on toast.

Amazing isn't it ?, how people get confused over the simplest of things. ;-)
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 1005
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 10:42:23 AM

my point is that it doesn't mean it's balanced, nor ideal for the masses or relationships in general. I don't see your situation as some crazy situation -- no. However, relating it to the original concept of the thread -- I would hope you see it as not on equal footing and to have Appreciation for it, and not "he's a man, he's supposed to." :)

My point is that you don't get to decide what is "balanced" or otherwise, you're not in said relationship.


I just wish to remind you folk that time is money. Do some of you even know how many pairs of panties you could have afforded to get into if you had of bought dinners with the time you spent debating this?

The thought constantly runs through my head, lmao.


I'm thinking her loving must be real good, as well as the lack of other options he has.

He's probably putting in more time at the office.

In the event this was regarding me, we both have plenty of options, were single for many years prior to agreeing to our relationship, we are both professionals and with great income potential, and we are both "attractive" (since attractive is an adjective that varies depending who is judging it).


Ms Belle, Aunty Red here. I'd send you a private message, but you are too young for me, LOL
I am truly happy for you. I hope your health, allows for you and the man in your life to be happy for years and years.
No two relationships are the same and you are oh so correct, ".............between two people, .....both have to be satisfied, ...in agreement.............."

LOL Makes sense to me!


Thank you Auntie Red :-)


I pay because I enjoy their company and don't want the issue of whether or not they can afford it at the time to be a determining factor in them deciding to accept or not. I've never dated destitute women so their ability TO pay has never entered into the picture. Experience has shown me that if the dating continues with a woman the financial aspect equals out in the long run. But initially since I'm the one asking... I'll pay. Old school I know. ;)

Exactly my thoughts.


aprilovesrosasblancas post didn't bother me in the least. I just found it weird that she thinks this is abusive, but had no problems with Belle in a very similar situation. I was trying to get to why she thinks it's so different or abusive. (or whipped which is what norwegianguy456 thinks about Belles BF.)

I understood the implications of her posts and while I see where she's coming from, we cannot be quick to judge situations with very limited information. It is all a generalization and based on whatever you may have disclosed in the past, regarding your dating habits, past relationships, etc. It is very easy to assume that in some respect, there is an imbalance or unfair advantage going on in your marriage.

She is (after all) someone you brought to the USA from a foreign country, she is a lot younger than yourself, we all know the economics of other countries are wonky at best and therefore opportunities for education or good jobs are scarce, and it all leads to an assumption (supported by culture) that you are both getting what you want. She is getting a better life where she doesn't have to be on what I call "survival-mode", where you are constantly obsessed with how you are going to make it to the next day and setting up a way to live in the future. It is no secret that many women in foreign country will accept a relationship/marriage with someone if such has the potential to better their lives, sans actual feelings, let along romantic feelings. In such set ups, there is a fear that once they get here, it is only a matter of time before they break free, meet someone they really want to be with, find a way to support themselves, and bounce.

You on the other hand, are getting someone whose cultural disposition is to obey you, praise you, cook for you, treat you like a king, and let you make all decisions. I'm not saying this is exactly who she is, I'm speaking of the culture from which she was bred. You are getting someone much younger, with less immediate income potential in a new country, with a different language and culture, isolated from her friends and family, who you can control/influence. Again, she could very well be a super genius, making more money than anyone one of us can spend, and she's the boss of you, lol.

After all, for all we know, she could come from a wealthy and powerful family who was running the show in their homeland, and she fell in love with you and decided to build a life together in the USA. Like I said, we actually don't know and that's why should think carefully before handing out judgements.

Dragon, there is very little age disparity between my boyfriend and I, we are only 9 years apart and both White-Hispanic, we are both engineers, neither has little children to care for, etc, we are both in a position in which we are choosing to be with each other, with no due influence, without jeopardizing anything in each other's lives. So while our economics may be similar in our relationships, the parameters vary in that it is active choice, not an obligation.


IMO some people seem to measure everything, but know the value of nothing.

Exactly the principle of what I'm saying.
 Stellan77
Joined: 2/8/2016
Msg: 1006
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 10:44:13 AM

aprilovesrosasblancas post didn't bother me in the least. I just found it weird that she thinks this is abusive, but had no problems with Belle in a very similar situation. I was trying to get to why she thinks it's so different or abusive. (or whipped which is what norwegianguy456 thinks about Belles BF.)


That is not surprising. Look at April's past posting history- she believes it's always the man's job to prove he's financially stable to a woman, and that real manly men always pay for dates.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 1007
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 10:46:37 AM
I don't believe a man has a lot of options if he meets someone and then agrees to live with them and pay all the bills. I know women that have been with men like that and they were complete suckers. Most of the women broke up with those guys when they got bored of them or wanted to move on with their life. I don't judge the way anyone lives but I know suckers when I see them. What's that saying about the cabbage truck?
 cassie2425
Joined: 3/4/2016
Msg: 1008
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 11:21:55 AM
^^^. But it's okay for a woman to live with a man and HE pays all the bills?? If this happens that means she would be flat out using his ass.

Oh wait, I forgot, he's paying for the privilege of her company.
 Aprilovesrosasblancas
Joined: 2/24/2016
Msg: 1009
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 11:22:37 AM

aprilovesrosasblancas post didn't bother me in the least. I just found it weird that she thinks this is abusive, but had no problems with Belle in a very similar situation.


Look dragonbytes As I said, that was just my POV, is not personal.
If your wife is happy with that agreement that is her business she is old enough to know what is good for her or not.

about not having problem with the poster you did mention;
I haven't read all her post but the last ones she wrote, she is saying that her boyfriend is a professional who have the way to support her, himself and still have money for saving or spend on something else.

Your wife comes from a poor family and poor city.........
+================================================

Note:
I did answer that man the way I did because it bothers me when people mention my religion, just to put me down.

===================================================

Dragonbytes:

Waving THE FLAG OF PEACE towards you.:)

Holy Thursday today, Good Friday tomorrow....Remember to fast.!

Have a nice weekend.!!
 ThroatLozenge
Joined: 3/2/2016
Msg: 1010
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 11:42:40 AM
I want a sugar momma experience :(
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 1011
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 11:45:11 AM

^^^^ Eh? Who pays all the bills? And gets bored with them


I seriously hope you are not saying there are women that pays all the bills for a man as that is like the bottom of the pits in role reversal.


That is like a women with not even a small unit of respect for herself

He would be flat out using her ass:(


Um, what?
I said I also know women that lived with men where the man paid all of the bills. The women lived with those men until they got bored and moved on to the next man. How does it make a difference whether it's a man or woman paying for everything?
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 1012
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 12:10:41 PM

My point is that you don't get to decide what is "balanced" or otherwise, you're not in said relationship.

I disagree, and I think you also are one to step in to make comments on "what's deserved" like anyone else (which is fine). This statement makes you play both sides of the coin. You agree with Steve Harvey's quote that a guy is supposed to pay a gal's way no matter what, over time -- not as a mere dating tip, but what He's Supposed to do. Yet you claim one doesn't get to decide what's good/balanced/deserved outside of their own, and there is no cultural right or wrong, too much or too little on it? So which is it?

For the millionth time, if a man wants to pay for the all the dates, that's his right. But that is different than a woman that expects a man to pay for every date and never offers.

Exactly.

I noticed that some of the women who are of the belief that a man must pay the entire bill for every date are totally against something cheap like a coffee date.

I definitely agree if all the dates on the level of mere coffee dates. It's because said types, to one degree or another, want a 1-way situation -- where the guy is the contestant, and the female is the panel of judges. They don't see that as a mere taste issue, but how it's at least ideally supposed to be, unfortunately.

I seriously hope you are not saying there are women that pays all the bills for a man as that is like the bottom of the pits in role reversal.

It should be the bottom of the pits in ANY direction, if it's going to be the bottom of the pits in any one direction.

No cassie it isn't okay for a man to pay all her bills I never said it was I'd rightly assume she was using him

Well, all her phone/electric/household bills, or her bills on a date with him (when he didn't ask to take her out nor implied on initial ones)?

Experience has shown me that if the dating continues with a woman the financial aspect equals out in the long run. But initially since I'm the one asking... I'll pay. Old school I know. ;)

I don't think it's old school to do the initial asking, thus paying. Pretty common with little argument. There'd be little forum arguments if the issues were just about the initial asking-out ones by the guy. But I think dating continuing doesn't always result in the financial aspect more or less equaling out in the long run -- I think that's the issue that revs things up. It's when some feel Entitled to always or almost always be paid for, out of Obligation for merely going out on dates with said guy, even past the initial phase -- and it not being a taste issue, but a judgment issue on the guy if he balks at always-paying (see OP, issue comes up on 10th date).
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 1013
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 12:16:27 PM
"I want a sugar momma experience :("

I could give you that experience Mr. Clooney....for the low, low price of $995.00 per day.




****terms of service and limitations do apply.
 flman2015
Joined: 10/3/2015
Msg: 1014
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 12:23:19 PM


....for the low, low price of $995.00 per day.


I hope a democrat wins the next election because it looks like I'm going to need sugar stamps ;-)
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 1015
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 12:25:35 PM

I think that's the issue that revs things up. It's when some feel Entitled to always or almost always be paid for, out of Obligation for merely going out on dates with said guy,...


You can say it boils down to a communication issue. Much like another thread in here talking about why someone doesn't respond at all to to a single message sent early in the day, and yet is expected to do so without any reminder or follow-up communication at lunch or later in the day. Assuming things just leads to problems, and it's not very good communication. Being a 'gentleman' for the first date may seem to be culturally 'normal', but it's only a first date - not an established pattern - and doesn't need to be, depending on the situation.

A good mantra for BOTH genders to adopt in an early relationship -- If you don't discuss it ahead of time, be prepared to pay. <<---- That way, whomever or however you pick up the tab, it's already covered adequately.
 crook_catcher
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 1016
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 12:34:04 PM

There'd be little forum arguments if the issues were just about the initial asking-out ones by the guy.


The dutch brigade would beg to differ.

It's really easy to figure out....at least I think so anyway. If I'm not enjoying my dates company there won't be a "next date". If I'm enjoying being with her, her monetary contribution means nothing to me. If she offers fine...if not that's fine also. I'm not asking nor expecting. I'm certainly not going to judge her based on how she recipocates when I'm the one doing the asking....regardless of how long we've dated.

That's why I can't understand the pov that says "hey I've gone out with this woman five times and she's not paying anything and it's pissing me off" I'm thinking if that's the case you're really not enjoying her company at that point as much as you're just looking for a time occupier and want reimbursed for your efforts. jmo.....and the war rages on. Lol
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 1017
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 12:40:05 PM

I said I also know women that lived with men where the man paid all of the bills. The women lived with those men until they got bored and moved on to the next man. How does it make a difference whether it's a man or woman paying for everything?


There is an unlimited number of reasons why relationships end, and an unlimited number of reasons or boredom causing the end of a relationship.

Just yesterday, one of my friends was telling me that she is actively dating two guys and the two guys know of each other, she doesn't use protection with either (they all know this), and they are all fine with it. Oh, and they are both excellent cooks, and live locally. She is now scouting out girls to get into the mix. So I asked her why she doesn't just stay with the one that makes her head explode (as well as other parts of her), whenever they kiss, instead of the second guy who s*cks in bed and is selfish as heck. She tells me one is for the sexual satisfaction and emotional connection, the other is for the intellectual conversations and because he makes future plans with her (offered her a road trip coming up).

You see, the guy with the amazing sex is young, and she doesn't see much a future with that guy, and he doesn't text her or communicate as often as he likes (and he is apparently not with other women either). The awful sex guy texts her daily, they talk for hours (since they are both involved with research), and always makes plans with her. So she is doing patchwork to fulfill her needs, and now is on this whole "non-monogamous" quest.

It is partly my fault, I created this monster, lmao. I recommended she start dating just to go out and have some fun, to distract her from all of the drama she was going through (roommate issues, temporary unemployment, a guy who was d*cking her around)............she ended up f*cking the first person she met, on the same day they met, and now she's d*cking everyone around.

There is no specific way to win the game, like someone else said, it is a matter of people the right person at the right time. She is meeting all these people at a time in which he has nothing to offer, they can be perfect in their own ways, but she is not ready to give anyone her undivided attention.

I don't think I am ever going to get bored about being treated well, but I will get bored/tired of being treated badly.

In terms of women paying everything for a man, I've seen this happen often, particularly in dynamics where she has a demanding profession, where she needs a partner to help her with basic stuff. Many women who own or work at hair salons, have boyfriends/husbands who do not work, who are there to run the errands, pick them up, get them food, and whatever else, like they are there to do what they cannot do because they work. Also, women who are psychic and have their own practice, whether business or home, they typically have boyfriends/husbands who stay at home because someone has to greet the customers, manage the whole business, keep things in check and do the daily things that the women cannot tend to because they are working. That is the dynamic that works for them.

Culturally speaking, yes, they are thought less of a man because they don't work, as if he were lazy and is taking advantage of the woman in question, but they work just as hard making sure everything is perfect so that their spouses can continue to work without anything else falling apart.

Even people who do 50/50 split for reasons not having to do with the 50/50, so let's not assume we know exactly where something is headed just because our idea of what should be, should be.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 1018
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 12:42:14 PM
if it is between the 2 people, why 40+ pages arguing about it?
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 1019
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 12:45:50 PM
^^^^^^
*drumroll* .....................because everyone thinks they are an expert in other people's relationships. Same happens when watching a fight on TV, all of a sudden you want to tell the boxer what he/she needs to do, and then comes the critique at the end of it all about what should have taken place point by point. Like WTF? If you're an expert and you think you could have done a better job, get in the ring yourself and fight, and stop telling other people what they need/should do.

NG, you are past the point of making any sense, you're going in circles.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 1020
view profile
History
who pays
Posted: 3/24/2016 1:51:08 PM

I'm not understanding it NG the bit about all her household bills and so on

You said the guy shouldn't pay all the girl's bills -- I was asking, do you mean all her household bills or all her date bills? They are Her bills too on a date. A guy treats a gal when he picks up her bill (or vice versa). My point is, outside the initial asking-out phase, a gal shouldn't be paying a guy's bills any more than a guy should be paying a gal's bills -- whether they're household bills or dinner bills. By default, a guy & girl's roles should be treated equally -- or no?

A good mantra for BOTH genders to adopt in an early relationship -- If you don't discuss it ahead of time, be prepared to pay.

Yeah, past the asking-if-youd-like-to-go-out phase of 1-3 dates -- it'd be ideal to talk about it. I think, as the OP points out, that can be touchy. Even as far as the 10th date! LOL. Most guys (including myself) will feel it out early on. If things are going great, it'll extend a couple dates of her not picking up on the notion of at least contributing to the bill, until I'd say something.

Of course, one good thing to bear in mind, is to lightly talk about dating in general on one of the first dates -- and to converse about the concept of girl-guy paying -- by bashing guys who refuse to pay the whole date when they ask a girl out (to show you're not some cheapskate), but to also to roll the eyes toward working women who refuse to ever contribute to dates beyond that. But, this can be touchy, and ideally, guys just hope/bank on the gal offering to contribute by itself at some point shortly down the line.

I'm certainly not going to judge her based on how she recipocates when I'm the one doing the asking....regardless of how long we've dated.

Well, what if she's doing the asking? That's certainly a common situation once past the first date or three. A lot of times, especially if ya hit it off, the communicative exchange between the two isn't much different than two buddies texting/talking and agreeing to do go to X/Y/Z.

That's why I can't understand the pov that says "hey I've gone out with this woman five times and she's not paying anything and it's pissing me off"

Unless he's been chasing her pretty much the whole time, I can understand at least concern by the guy, sure. By the 5th date, it's quite common the gal recommended going to a certain place for that 5th date while they were out on or right after date #4. They at least lightly talk almost every day -- they agreed/confirmed to go out on that date #5, and (scratching head), she's not even motioning to contribute for anything. He has concern because it's beyond the guy-chases-girl thing, and usually this is a sign the gal expects all dates paid for if she's even out in public with him.

Now, I'll agree on the enjoying a gal's time immensely... as a blatant example, if he's having wild sex at this point with this hottie -- it's going to take until date #15, not #5 for him to be caring about it. :)
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