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 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 286
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LADIES - A Question of Height...Page 12 of 16    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)

I can answer Yes to all 4 questions...

Which has nothing to do with being in their league, dude. No rambling required for someone to see that on a common sense level. Being guy-friends doesn't make one in their league. And never have I said that 10s only go out with 10s. People can get some out of their league to some degree, with luck/connections/etc. Not denying that can happen.

It goes back to the original related questions, assuming a decent game/persona:

- Do you believe SI Models could NOT easily get or want to get a guy more attractive than me?
- Do you believe that I could just as easily pick up these women as I could 6s?

That's what league's about.
 BBEisBack
Joined: 9/16/2015
Msg: 287
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/2/2016 8:19:43 PM

That's what league's about.


You're out of their league on a Social-Economic Level..... You're not invited to the Places where you'd meet them.....
Those Women tend to be on the taller end of the scale, they do Date Men their height or even shorter.. On looks, Ive seen them Date Average looking guys, too....

But You have this whole picture in Your mind & nothing i say will change it.....
That won't stop Me from saying you're wrong......
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 288
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/2/2016 8:53:52 PM

You're out of their league on a Social-Economic Level..... You're not invited to the Places where you'd meet them.....

I'm not assuming in this hypothetical I wouldn't be able to meet them, tho. Social-Economic Level can affect one's league in general when there's extremes, and in this case does. However, it wouldn't Necessarily mean she'd be out of a particular good looking / good job having guy's league if she was not so attractive looking and not incredibly famous. But SI Models + that? Yeah, out of my league. A guy would have to be a reasonably successful, modelesque guy to be in their league.

But You have this whole picture in Your mind & nothing i say will change it.....

Change what, tho? Disagreeing with me on what leagues mean? I'm not talking about my % chances in X or Y circumstances of picking up a particular hot girl VS model VS whomever (who'd be out of my 'league')... it's about the definition of league.

Do you disagree that a gal being out of (higher than) a guy's 'league' means that she can easily get a more attractive/socio-economic guy than him?
 BBEisBack
Joined: 9/16/2015
Msg: 289
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/2/2016 9:28:18 PM

But SI Models + that? Yeah, out of my league. A guy would have to be a reasonably successful, modelesque guy to be in their league.


You don't have a Frigin' clue how wrong You are.... But I'm not going to get into specifics to prove You wrong...
I guess I've seen behind the Curtian & you haven't.... If I wanted to, I could get on a Plane & be at those locations, with a invite to the party.... It's not My thing....

As it is, I've said more than I should..... I'll just leave it at that......
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 290
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/2/2016 9:32:52 PM
Again, just answer the question, as I'm talking about definition of a league:

Do you disagree that a gal being out of (higher than) a guy's 'league' means that she can easily get a more attractive/socio-economic guy than him?

If you disagree, what do you define 'league' as? Do you think there are no leagues -- which means every guy has the same chance in the same situation as far as looks & fame/popularity/riches are concerned? Or that it's always based on personal taste that's essentially random (which would mean basically every guy has the same chance)?
 Whatsamattababy
Joined: 12/24/2015
Msg: 291
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/2/2016 10:14:24 PM
^ I haven't picked on you in a long time and you must miss it, poor thing. See, here's what: You have your ideas about people and "leagues", and that's fine. But you leave no room for those who have different values. Not everyone is the same as you, Hon.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 292
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/2/2016 10:25:37 PM

^ I haven't picked on you in a long time and you must miss it, poor thing. See, here's what: You have your ideas about people and "leagues", and that's fine. But you leave no room for those who have different values. Not everyone is the same as you, Hon.


Value is actually the perfect word to describe advantages in dating or in other areas of life. As an example, someone that's a hard worker or has talents has more value for a company. When you do online dating, you have to communicate your value through text and pictures. In person, it can be much easier. You can do so many things that aren't available to you online. You can communicate value through the tone of your voice, your body language, what you say, the people in your social circle, etc. The main problem I see in the profile review section is that no one actually communicates any type of value to the people they want to date. It's like putting up concert posters that say: "Come check out this band that no one listens to. They might be alright."
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 293
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/2/2016 10:55:31 PM

You have your ideas about people and "leagues", and that's fine. But you leave no room for those who have different values. Not everyone is the same as you, Hon.

Oh, come awn, you're smarter than that, though. I'm talking about how others value others, based on how they perceive their level of value -- I'm not talking about my personal tastes, what I think is hot for myself and should be for others, etc. I'm talking about observation of the trends of people, generally speaking -- not what I like or dislike. Totally different concept.

When you do online dating, you have to communicate your value through text and pictures. In person, it can be much easier. You can do so many things that aren't available to you online. You can communicate value through the tone of your voice, your body language, what you say, the people in your social circle, etc.

I totally agree. One may be able seen as a more Valuable commodity in their online profile than IRL ("OMG, he's like 100lbs heavier and 3" shorter IRL!"), but many times when it comes to someone whose stat-sheet values or message-writing-game value isn't oh-so high, IRL they'll do better. That's why for guys who are short (Hawking), they'll have a better Value in-person VS making-it-or-breaking-it online.

A 5'4" gal who has her Match minimum height at 6 foot (not an accident), is Likely going to find more Value in the same guy @ 5'8" in-person VS online.

A gal's "league", IMO, is based on how high a Value of a guy she can reasonably obtain (ie without a stroke of mad luck). I think the argument is how big X, Y, or Z plays a role in one's Value. My controversial POV is that looks plays the biggest role when it comes to boy mingles with girl at an event/bar/church/etc. So does (known) popularity and riches, if applicable. How good your game is (body language, voice, communication skills resonating with the opp-sex) plays a key part, and by itself can help make one more popular/raise-status in their area by itself, or amp up attraction that otherwise wouldn't be there by the mere look of a mug shot. It's not going to make a 4 turn into an 8, no. But it can make a key difference and get one who one would otherwise think was a bit out of your league -- but More Importantly get/keep the gals (or guys) that one very well otherwise would have slipped away (as that happens often in the dating scene).
 Szaszaspasz
Joined: 11/13/2012
Msg: 294
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/2/2016 11:05:14 PM
It depends on the person in question. I'm 5'4" as well. At least I hope you would not ask me to wear high heels.
 CecillyAnn
Joined: 2/2/2016
Msg: 295
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/6/2016 8:46:00 AM
Height is not an issue for me at all. I've been just as attracted to short guys a to tall ones!
 jaja808
Joined: 12/11/2015
Msg: 296
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/6/2016 2:43:19 PM
Norwegianguy456: You've got it all wrong. Whether or not leagues exist, is irrelevant. What's important in life is love and happiness. I know a lot of people who are less attractive than me that have less attractive mates than me and they couldn't be happier. Their life is full of love and happiness. You seem to be looking at life at life like "What can I get???" You should change your focus to "What have I got?"
 Llove2laughtoo
Joined: 1/11/2016
Msg: 297
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/9/2016 3:41:38 PM

Msg: 200
the guys with Ferraris, six feet tall and good looking are not in this murky pond looking for dates.



Msg: 202
While still married to her, Christie Brinkley's ex-husband, millionaire Peter Cook had profiles on various dating sites, including A*.F*.F.


I just read that Khloe Kardashian setup an online dating profile in the OK Cupid site. So, yes, good looking ladies with Ferraris are members of these murky ponds looking for dates.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3438200/Khloe-Kardashian-reveals-set-online-dating-profile-says-spends-Friday-nights-working.html
 Stellan77
Joined: 2/8/2016
Msg: 298
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/12/2016 11:25:31 AM
The thing I want to know is, where does a 5'0 woman get off calling a 5'6 guy short?
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 299
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/12/2016 12:41:01 PM

So, I'd be interested to hear from females on their views on height and how much it matters in choosing a partner.


OP, There is no "One size fits all".
For every woman, who is short, medium, or tall, there is a different opinion. A different preference.
From it "Really, really matters" to "I could care less".
?My opinion? Height is irrelevant.
( My only requirement is, he must be able to place both feet on the ground, while seated on the bike, waiting for the traffic light to turn green!)

Search for the woman who desires you, standing, sitting and horizontal.

LOL, Since when did "League" become "Height"?
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 300
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/12/2016 1:21:07 PM

Norwegianguy456: You've got it all wrong. Whether or not leagues exist, is irrelevant.

When it comes to the topic of boy-meets-girl, it absolutely does.

What's important in life is love and happiness.

But to find it on this subject you need to garner someone's sexual (more-than-platonic) interest. That's a requirement. A necessary ingredient for that to even have a chance to begin. That's what this discussion is about -- being able to land Interest with someone else. Once interest is established, THEN love, happiness, and fruitfulness, has a chance to Begin.

The thing I want to know is, where does a 5'0 woman get off calling a 5'6 guy short?

Ahhh, you just came across the important concept of height with women, that's often misunderstood. The key is, it's how tall he is compared to Other Guys, not really to her. Compared to her, that's a given 99%+ of the time, so that goes without saying. And that's not where the controversy is. A short guy won't have a big problem finding a gal (and likely even prefer one) who's at least a bit shorter than he anyway.

In a gal's eyes, he's measured compared to Other Guys. That's the measurement of "short", "tall", "above average", etc.

For every woman, who is short, medium, or tall, there is a different opinion. A different preference.
From it "Really, really matters" to "I could care less".

Strongly disagree. It's FAR from random. :) I mean, technically, you could say the same thing about old guys with Big pot bellys and no money. You could find gals who are everything from Absolutely No Way to "really, really matters" to "it matters somewhat" to "I could care less". Point being, no, it's not random or close to random when it comes to a reasonably attractive 'catch' of a gal. Notably below average height matters a lot, statistically in taste.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 9/15/2015
Msg: 301
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/12/2016 8:03:53 PM

The thing I want to know is, where does a 5'0 woman get off calling a 5'6 guy short?


5.0 is very short for a woman. 5.6 is short for a man.

So what? I don't see why these facts causes a problem.
 irishgirl772
Joined: 6/3/2013
Msg: 302
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/13/2016 4:06:59 AM
The bigger or taller the guy is, the smaller I look. For me, it has nothing to do with wearing heels.
 Chromis1
Joined: 9/9/2015
Msg: 303
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/13/2016 7:01:55 AM

For every woman, who is short, medium, or tall, there is a different opinion. A different preference.
From it "Really, really matters" to "I could care less".
?My opinion? Height is irrelevant.


Exactly right. A lid for every pot, right?

I'm 5'8" but that hasn't stopped me from dating women who stand 5'8" or even 5'9" . And in heels, wow, they were a lot taller than me. They didn't care and I didn't care. They were attracted to my brain. I think. No, actually, I know. Several of them said "I really like an intelligent man". Brain power trumped height, even in heels.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 9/15/2015
Msg: 304
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/13/2016 7:02:55 AM
Several weird things about male height.

1) Men who are average to taller seem to complain about OLD the most. Why is that? Then they give advice to shorter men, but based on what experience? No doubt it's based on their personal experience.

2) Men who are shorter, we like OLD and say it works better for us. That's what the only short guys on this thread think. I have to believe, our opinion is more of an expert opinion than some guy who is 6 foot tall.

3) Some women look at men as the equivalent of a fashion accessory. Sure, when I was younger a sexual tryst is good with anyone that is attractive, but who wants a LTR with a ball buster? Their insecurity doesn't stop at just male height.

About #1 IMO average height and taller men are used to being able to attract women in real life based on body language clues. They don't get rejected based on their appearance. While shorter men often get ignored solely because we are short. BUT with OLD those average height men don't get any body language clues, it's more about their communicating skills and personality. They get rejected online a lot more than they do in real life. So they very often don't like online dating, as they aren't used to getting rejected.

While a shorter man has dealt with a lot being ignored and if they approach anyway, they deal with rejection. The natural rejection that occurs online is not as bad since our pool of potential dates is so large.

About #2. Who says I would want to have a relationships with this kind of woman?

Men and women talk a lot about personal confidence being very attractive in a male.

I think this is subtle, but I have had experience in multiple environments. When in a singles bar in Manhattan, I might as well be invisible. But when anyplace in Thailand, I get a fair amount of interest. This casual interest builds confidence that makes men more appealing overall. While some short men have early experiences that destroys their confidence, and it's tough to build it when they are older. I haven't really experienced a lot of rejection, but it was likely just luck because my first relationship was so long I skated over being rejected by random women until I was 30. I seldom had a need to meet women at random. So I don't think about height as it affects women as much as I think about MY needs in any kind of relationship.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 305
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/13/2016 10:19:20 AM

The bigger or taller the guy is, the smaller I look. For me, it has nothing to do with wearing heels.

You're going to look smaller being in flat-footed shoes next to a guy who's 5" taller than you, than wearing 5" heels standing next to the same guy. If a taller guy makes you look smaller, then obviously a taller you undoes that to whatever degree. Common sense, right?

1) Men who are average to taller seem to complain about OLD the most. Why is that? Then they give advice to shorter men, but based on what experience? No doubt it's based on their personal experience.

I don't see average to taller men complaining More about OLD, ratio wise. There's more average to above average height guys around, and there's plenty to complain about in general for guys in a sausage fest like POF of course. Certainly height differential is Not the only thing to frustrate folks in the dating world, nor is it at all claimed to be.

2) Men who are shorter, we like OLD and say it works better for us. That's what the only short guys on this thread think. I have to believe, our opinion is more of an expert opinion than some guy who is 6 foot tall.

No, it doesn't -- as far as finding reasonably attractive people is concerned. Don't try to convince Hawking that OLD is better than IRL in finding a gal. Gals are more picky about height online than IRL.

About #1 IMO average height and taller men are used to being able to attract women in real life based on body language clues. They don't get rejected based on their appearance. While shorter men often get ignored solely because we are short.

I disagree. It's been found time and time again in experiments and requires no imagination at all. Gals will skip over a guy based on his height. They're looking for flaws, snags, etc. -- and certainly more picky than IRL when looking online, generally speaking. Take a guy who's 5'5" -- his options drop. Pretty much all gals 5'5" or higher aren't going to want him. A very high % of gals 5'3", 5'4" who would otherwise be in his league aren't going to want him. Just like lack of body language cues, it's also an environment where the numbers are staring them in the face.

When in a singles bar in Manhattan, I might as well be invisible. But when anyplace in Thailand, I get a fair amount of interest.

Short American/Canadian guys going out to Thailand aren't going to be so short anymore -- and being a Western import. Totally comparing apples & oranges there -- that should have been no surprise by any means of course.

But yes, when you go into Thailand and the situation shifts, as well as how you compare, your confidence builds -- which yes, makes you even more attractive than you'd otherwise be.

That's why I always told Hawking that sure, you'll bat .100 out there, where other guys who are (merely) decent looking and aren't models by any means will be batting .333. But if you're down about batting .100, it's going to end up making you bat more like .001, which IS a huge difference.

You don't have to think about height if you approach gals who are within your height range. Walking up to a gal who's a bit taller than you or more isn't a good idea (unless your confidence won't be shaken by a Very low batting average). As I said before, short guys can find shorter girls. Problem is, even there, most shorter gals will still want guys close to average height, and most won't be attracted to the "short guy in the room".
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 306
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/14/2016 12:39:33 PM

You don't have to think about height if you approach gals who are within your height range. Walking up to a gal who's a bit taller than you or more isn't a good idea (unless your confidence won't be shaken by a Very low batting average). As I said before, short guys can find shorter girls. Problem is, even there, most shorter gals will still want guys close to average height, and most won't be attracted to the "short guy in the room".


I agree somewhat. As slim as a guys' chances may be in real life, the online process skews it even further... My analysis of local women and their height preference minimums/maximums -as publicly listed on sites like Match - is that, at least online, that line for 'below' national average men is seldom crossed by women of ANY height. Granted, petite ladies that are around 5' 3" are more likely to prefer someone under 5' 10" than ladies a few inches taller, but I find it rather discouraging the frequency of shorter ladies that STILL set their computer dating 'minimum' preference ABOVE that 5' 9.5" national average. Sure, it's just a preference - and nothing is written in stone - but the computer matching algorithms don't know that.

A lot of real-life dating is situational and environmental. There are plenty of exceptions to every rule of attraction, but online - computer matching programs are much more strict with their 'fuzzy' math. Allowing for some variation is built into a lot of matching software, but it's not enough, apparently. So what do people do? They cheat...
-- When I check male profiles in the local market, and close to 80% of men list their height ABOVE that national average, that tells me its more than just a choice to be dishonest - it's changing numbers to match the online demand. It's pretty much the same superficial reason why people cheat on their age or income or with doctored photos - getting 'attention' pretty much REQUIRES being 'above' average in some way - at least online.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 307
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/14/2016 1:07:49 PM

at least online, that line for 'below' national average men is seldom crossed by women of ANY height.

I 100% Agree. To clarify my statement -- what I meant was that short guys can FIND shorter girls (to approach), and it's not an issue of shorter women being a rare breed, as the basic complaint isn't "The only girls available are taller than me!" If all girls cared about was the guy being at or above Her height in her common footwear, there would be Much Less of these threads. :)

Granted, petite ladies that are around 5' 3" are more likely to prefer someone under 5' 10" than ladies a few inches taller, but I find it rather discouraging the frequency of shorter ladies that STILL set their computer dating 'minimum' preference ABOVE that 5' 9.5" national average

As a side note -- the average height of a white male in the US has been placed at 5'10" to 5'10.5" (not to make things even More discouraging for short white guys lol). Other ethnicities lower it a bit though for the male breed. But yes, you'll find the average Preference of a short gal (5'2") not being too much shorter than the preference of a little above average height gal (5'6"). It's not going to be a 4" difference, but more like a 1-2 inch difference. It's because the focus is on how tall he is compared to Other Guys.

When I check male profiles in the local market, and close to 80% of men list their height ABOVE that national average, that tells me its more than just a choice to be dishonest - it's changing numbers to match the online demand.

Yeah -- unless short guys usually Give Up off the bat ("Screw this! I have no chance!") -- yes, that's an indicator of guys lying about it. Kind of like for every 1" a guy lies about his height, a gal lies by 1-2" on her waist-line. ;)
 FullMoonGuy
Joined: 3/7/2014
Msg: 308
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/14/2016 1:37:03 PM

You don't have to think about height if you approach gals who are within your height range. Walking up to a gal who's a bit taller than you or more isn't a good idea (unless your confidence won't be shaken by a Very low batting average). As I said before, short guys can find shorter girls.


Segregation and discrimination by height.
So enlightened.


You don't have to think about height if you approach gals who are within your height range.


No one would have to think about height if more humans moved beyond Neanderthal thinking and didn't make such a big deal out of it.


You don't have to think about height if you approach gals who are within your height range.


Yes, guys should just know their place and act accordingly.
 Stellan77
Joined: 2/8/2016
Msg: 309
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/14/2016 1:53:27 PM

You don't have to think about height if you approach gals who are within your height range.


That might not work. Plenty of shorter women prefer taller men. It's also not unheard of that a taller woman will say yes to a shorter man. Avoiding certain women based on height just limits your chances. Not all women are cut from the same cloth.
 SunshineGirl__
Joined: 10/7/2014
Msg: 310
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 2/14/2016 2:03:17 PM
Men are the ones who make such a big deal out of it.

Women see an attractive man and think…he’s an attractive man.

Men see women date any attractive man (who isn’t him) and think….he’s tall, I’m short. He’s generous, I’m cheap. He’s a dirty scumbag ex-con bad boy, I’m a “nice guy.” Well she deserves to be abused by him because she didn’t pick me.

Please do move beyond “Neanderthal thinking.”

Msg 305, I don’t think it’s necessary or appropriate for you to tell a woman how she feels about men she chooses to date.
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