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 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 210
LADIES - I Will Die a Virgin Page 9 of 16    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)

Women are more likely to answer emails that stand out from the rest of the "Hi, how are you? I saw you like beaches. I like beaches too." Standing out and being different than the 50 boring men that just emailed her is more important than being tall.


That wasn't true for me. I sent out various types of first emails and it didn't have an impact on my positive replay rate. When I got more emails, it was often after I added new and better pictures and to a lesser extent after I made revisions to my profile.
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 211
LADIES - I Will Die a Virgin
Posted: 1/24/2016 3:23:31 PM
I don't see these many women who will date shorter men out and about. Same height, maybe.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 9/15/2015
Msg: 212
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History
LADIES - I Will Die a Virgin
Posted: 1/25/2016 4:59:37 AM

I'm short (5'2"), old (76), and bald. None of those physical aspects have hindered my dating life. Since age 16, I have been approached by girls who were taller (and, now much younger) than I. Height is only a problem, when you make it a problem. My girlfriend of 20 years ago, was 5'8", and towered over me, but it was a great relationship while it lasted ( even considered marrying her). So, to sum up, you have one life, and you should enjoy it with whomever you find attractive, and don't worry about what other people think.


From another thread, BTW, he is also a black man.

https://forums.plentyoffish.com/13145128datingPostpage9.aspx
 sundress2
Joined: 12/12/2015
Msg: 213
LADIES - I Will Die a Virgin
Posted: 1/25/2016 6:36:40 AM

I don't see these many women who will date shorter men out and about. Same height, maybe.


I have seen some women with shorter men. But the height difference was usually just 1-2 inches. Sure people can point out a few examples where a man was several inches shorter than a woman he was dating. But those are probably rare exceptions.
 Llove2laughtoo
Joined: 1/11/2016
Msg: 214
LADIES - I Will Die a Virgin
Posted: 1/25/2016 6:38:29 AM

I'm short (5'2"), old (76), and bald. None of those physical aspects have hindered my dating life. Since age 16, I have been approached by girls who were taller (and, now much younger) than I. Height is only a problem, when you make it a problem. My girlfriend of 20 years ago, was 5'8", and towered over me, but it was a great relationship while it lasted ( even considered marrying her). So, to sum up, you have one life, and you should enjoy it with whomever you find attractive, and don't worry about what other people think.


Those are very wise words.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 9/15/2015
Msg: 215
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History
LADIES - I Will Die a Virgin
Posted: 1/25/2016 7:31:04 AM

I have seen some women with shorter men. But the height difference was usually just 1-2 inches. Sure people can point out a few examples where a man was several inches shorter than a woman he was dating. But those are probably rare exceptions.


Men are on average 5" taller than women, so statistically if people paired off randomly, most couples would have the men taller. What you see in real life is a noticeable preference for men taller, but it isn't a huge preference. (NOTE, nothing tells us who is more likely to want the man taller, the man or the woman, or maybe both. I have a preference for smaller, though it's not a hard line.)

If choice were out of their hands, 10.2 percent of heterosexual couples would have a man either the same height or shorter than the woman, but in real life since men tend to be taller than women anyway, only 7.5 percent of heterosexual couples don’t include a man who is taller than a woman.

So the difference is 10.2% Vs 7.5%, if you want to make it look more significant you can say couples are 26% more likely to have men taller than a random pairing, or you could also that the height selection made a 2.7% difference.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/how-common-is-it-for-a-man-to-be-shorter-than-his-partner/
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 216
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 8:33:58 AM
“It's not hard for a man to get dates with women taller than he is. Lots of my girlfriends were the same height or taller. Other men here can probably tell you the same thing - that they've dated taller women. Having a good attitude will get you dates faster than being insecure about things you can't change.”

If it were “easy,” couple height distribution would be a lot more random than it is – instead, 94% of couples consist of man taller than woman, and most of the other 6% involve really tall women who don’t have a lot of options.

That said, the majority of the women I’ve dated have been taller than me. But of course, the majority of women are taller than me. Most were only 1 or 2 inches taller than me, though there were about 3 that were 5’8+. How do I explain that? Teenagers and college-aged women are both easier to manipulate/trick and much more open-minded than 40-year-old women. I’ve never had a date with anyone older than 24, and most were 18, 19, 20 (again, recall that last date was 9 years ago so I was much younger). 40-year-old women have figured out exactly what they want (which apparently includes not having to stoop in heels to kiss their lovers after having done so a few times in their youth), know every trick in the book and many are perfectly happy not dating at all if the perfect man’s not around (which is often not the case with young women).

Plus, the ones on the market... are by far and large, as one of our good friends in the forum put it, “broken bottles.” The young women with the awesome attitudes toward short men and interracial relationships that I dated either got gobbled up in a long term relationship by an awesome guy, never to be on the market again, or they got burned so many times they turned bitter. And the remainder largely consists of women so picky they couldn’t ever pick a guy before from the many far superior suitors, so why the hell would they pick me now? 40-year-old single women who are open-minded about who they date hardly exist – certainly not at the same rate and in mass numbers as 18-year-old single women who are open-minded about who they date.

“When you're talking about a waitress, you're talking about hired guns, and that can be different than approaching the average woman.”

She was different from than the others (and trust me, I know exactly what you’re talking about with “hired guns”). From the moment we met, she lit up like a Christmas tree every time she saw me come into the restaurant, rearranged her work station to get my table and actually sat down with me for 5-10 minutes to talk about anything and everything. Furthermore, despite being a Hooters server, she wasn’t really way out of my league – she’s same height as me, also black-white mix, average looks and has hardly any “hooters.” And NONE of the other Hooters servers in that restaurant or any other restaurant that I can recall behave like that toward me – heck, they aren’t even “flirtatious for tips,” it’s just “Here’s your damn food. Have a nice day” (remember, we’re talking about Hooters servers, not strippers).

Because I really only liked her because she liked me (exactly the same situation as with my ex-girlfriend) and I go to that restaurant frequently which could lead to some awkwardness after a rejection, I continuously decided not to pursue it, but after 3 years of her being like that, I finally figured “What the hell” and asked for her number, and she acted like I shot her dog. Like I had violated some sort of “code” we had going, some sort of mutual understanding. And now I can’t go back to that Hooters, at least until she graduates from college and moves back to Ft. Myers, which is actually in May (which is another reason I finally decided, “What the hell” since the awkward rejection situation would only be temporary). Obviously from the fact that she’s in college (completely traditional student) means she’s much younger than me and was in fact 18 when I met her – she probably has no idea how old I am since I look so young and I never mention dates in my history during such conversations, so undoubtedly that theoretical relationship would have been messy anyway, though not anywhere near the mess of the last two 18-year-olds I dated, who were 100% white and far more dependent on their families than she is.

And, yes, I wouldn’t doubt that she was upset mostly because I took 3 years to pull that trigger and she had “friend-zoned” me by that point, even though we were only “Hooters friends.”

My female friends were with me for most of my “random stranger” rejections of the same period and claimed I did nothing much wrong with my approach – those women just weren’t “into me.” That said, I undoubtedly get a few rejections/non-approaches each night I’m out with them because “random stranger” women think I’m “with” them (especially my best friend, because we look like a natural couple, although she is so far out of my league that most MEN assume we’re not together and act like I’m not there, including cutting in between us while we’re dancing, but women look at the situation completely differently, I think).

"Do you think I care if there's a better looking guy in the building? "

Do you think *I* care? At least as far as deciding whether or not I'm going to ask out a woman? I'm acknowledging the competition exists and is superior in this thread. That doesn't factor into my decisions to approach women, here or real life. Unless the competition is actually literally standing in my way. Then I move on to someone else. You don't pile up thousands of rejections by being timid, by sitting at home with a "woe is me" attitude. I'm more social than MANY of you -- I meet far more people than almost all of you. "not getting out there" and "fearing the competition" are two things that are most definitely not contributing to my failures. I know that drives you guys crazy, because it doesn't make any sense to you that I might have a fairly normal life with a half-decent personality and am still dateless, but I'm afraid that is the case.

“Work out to gain muscle.”

I’ve pointed out quite a few times before that I was for several years one of the strongest men on earth by weight class... and not a single woman gave a flying fck because I was in the wrong weight class. I’m still in far better shape than the vast majority of men my age. I just hiked across the Chihuahua Desert! And none of the women I have dated cited my physique as a reason for dating me – most of them were obviously the types of women for whom looks were not really that important. “Nice” and “smart” were the top 2 reasons I got whenever I asked a woman who I was dating why she decided to date me. Almost never “cute” or “hot” or anything like that. The types of women who are gung-ho into physiques think such physiques are jokes or over-compensation on short men and basically nothing could ever make them date short men (aside from, again, money and fame). Speaking of which...

“hmmm, I guess the 6' tall, good looking, billionaire I met for a coffee date on match.com didn't get the memo.”

I’m just curious... did he mention being a billionaire in his profile or did you learn that on the date? I’m just wondering how they go about online dating without being targeted by golddiggers. I’ve come across a handful of (female) doctors and attorneys on dating sites and I’m always shocked to see them “slumming” (including you, I suppose, since you have a law degree). But on the other hand, you can’t meet everyone no matter what your job is. Well, maybe if you’re a politician.

“Standing out and being different than the 50 boring men that just emailed her is more important than being tall.”

Do you know how many dozens of threads there are around here in which women have declared that if they don’t find the guy physically attractive, it doesn’t matter what he writes – they’re not going to date (or usually even respond to them) if they aren’t physically attracted? If it’s a borderline call on the physical attraction, it might make a difference what he writes. Again, if a woman wrote me a brilliant sonnet but I found her physically repulsive, as desperate as I am, I’m not writing her back. I do wonder, since I am obviously a better writer and in many ways more appealing than the vast majority of men on here, how many times I’ve written a woman and she thought, “God, finally an intelligent, articulate man -- if only I found him attractive!” then hit delete.

“I think TGIF used persistence, passion and a certain lack of high standards. Much like a telemarketer, he wouldn't take no as a final answer.”

Yeah, I hate telemarketers, so I’m not doing that. I get rejected, I move on. Two of the four women I dated from real life situations did not initially tell me “Yes,” but they also did not say “No,” so I did keep working on them for a while (one for a year, the model for 3 months), but I’ve been outright rejected by nearly all women I’ve asked out in real life and I see no reason to be a pest under those circumstances. That’s just not in my nature, even though I understand it does work for some men – you know, like most of my co-workers, who are professional salespeople. If I had a salesperson personality, I’d be a rich sales person and would have no reason to be in this conversation.

“From another thread, BTW, he is also a black man.”

He also lived almost his entire life in NYC. Being in not just the largest/most densely populated but also most diverse and most open-minded city in the U.S. makes a world of different for a short male. I had less than 100 classmates from 1st through grade 12, usually none of them black females, in the most racist, closed-minded area of the country. If the distribution of women throughout the entire country who will date someone similar to him and I is as high as 1 in 100, then in an open-minded, liberal place where the population density is 28,000 per square mile, there were probably several hundred in his full “neighborhood,” whereas there were 20,000 total people in my entire county, which IS TWICE THE SIZE of NYC, so for there to be zero women willing to date me should not be terribly surprising. Seriously, there were *4* people in my square mile growing up -- my parents, my brother and I, since our nearest neighbors were over a mile away in every direction. I meet more people every time I spend a day or two in NYC than I met in the entire first 18 years of my life. His "age 16" situation was much different than my "age 16" situation.

For the last two decades or so I’ve lived in the “in-between” – nowhere as rural and as backwards as where I grew up, but not anywhere near the utopia that NYC is. And I’ve had dates with a handful of women. Seems about right.

Location, location, location.

We haven’t discussed it much here, but my best friend seems to think my youthful appearance has become a bigger hindrance than my height. Very few 40-year-old women want to date a man that looks young enough to be her son. And indeed, nearly all of my dates have been with college-aged women. So basically, I have aged out of my facial dating demo, which helps explain the difference between the last 9 years vs. the previous several years. Undoubtedly that old short dude has always looked his age in his face.

“I'm happy to see the ‘I Will Die a Virgin’ thread is still going on.”

Don’t really know why you’d think I’m a virgin after the 4 years worth of relationships I’ve mentioned here. How’s that dead son of yours whose memory you’ve decided to erase from existence?

Nice try, by the way. REAL mature.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 217
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History
LADIES - I Will Die a Virgin
Posted: 1/25/2016 8:39:12 AM
Dragon, your last post there makes a good point -- you'd still expect to See, if nobody had any tastes whatsoever (face, height, build, etc), that men were always taller than women -- even without women even having a taste on the subject. But what that means is that it'd still be far out there where a gal would have to be challenged with the notion of dealing with the height factor. Remember, in our society where women don't-care-as-much-about-looks, it's still the "Tall, dark and handsome," thing.

In 1980, researchers looking into the trend examined height data from 720 U.S. couples’ bank-account applications, and found that only one couple had a woman who was taller than her partner, The Atlantic reported. Fast forward 33 years and researchers are still finding that women prefer taller men, and that, on the off chance that a woman is with a shorter man, the height difference is usually small.

Also...

A 2008 study of 382 college students found that only four percent of women would be in a relationship with someone who was shorter, compared to 23 percent of men who would date a taller girl.

Now, taking surveys should be taken with a grain of salt. After all, surveys about how many people you slept with are off. Always the women's # is lower, and the men's # is higher on average -- which is mathematically impossible, as they Should be nearly equal. So what someone says they want or do is usually going to be skewed by avoiding judgment (or maybe for guys a bit of bragging if insufficient). In college, you have a variety of demographics too -- where for sorority girls or girls who are Short, you could pretty much say that it's Much lower than 4%, and for bookworm gals or gals who are Really Tall, it'd be higher.

Remember -- just because the guy's shorter doesn't mean he's a short guy. There are some pretty tall women out there. Look at Match. Women who are tall want taller guys, but not by much usually. Women who are short want guys a lot taller than she. In the end, women want guys who are taller than the next guy. They don't want the shorter ones in the room. So that 4% isn't a Short guy. That's only Part of that 4%. And also -- how short? What's the demographic of gals he's trying his hand at? That affects one's results Big.

In the end, especially for a Very short guy, one has to hit up the right demographics *PLUS* expect to strike out more than his 5'10" friend. More jungle brush to cut through, which may be too much for some people.
 Chromis1
Joined: 9/9/2015
Msg: 218
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 9:20:51 AM

Look at Match. Women who are tall want taller guys, but not by much usually. Women who are short want guys a lot taller than she.


On Match this is probably one of the least reliable "preferences". In my limited experience there, I found that the big majority of first contacts I received were from women whose height preference was actually in line with my height. So I concluded that those women who actively search, and contact, use height as a search parameter. I also found, however, that if it was me doing the initial contact, the fact that I was 2 inches shorter than her preferred height often got chucked out the window. In a few instances I did OK with women who were an inch taller, but admittedly this was more the exception than the norm.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 219
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 9:22:05 AM
It might take another million years of evolution before women realize that taller doesn't necessarily mean stronger and braver, and that most women won't need a tall, strong guy to protect them from dragons or wild boars or grizzly bears chasing them. Until then, short guys are mostly out of luck.
 SLAFFA
Joined: 8/13/2007
Msg: 220
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 9:46:44 AM
Here's a wild thought. Since now, ALL questions are ONLY subject to the "vote", and not a silly Mod who might have got up on the wrong side of the bed, why doesn't some silly man with a CLOSED MINDED POOR ATTITUDE simply post a poll question. Use your imagination.

Women could do the same thing. As so many here seem to think/claim that unless THEY are BBB [buxom, blonde & bimbo] they don't have a prayer doing OLD.

FACT: Very few women search by any parameter before sending an email. At least the ones over fiftyish.
 michelinman2
Joined: 1/11/2016
Msg: 221
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 11:25:00 AM

Don’t really know why you’d think I’m a virgin after the 4 years worth of relationships I’ve mentioned here. How’s that dead son of yours whose memory you’ve decided to erase from existence?


Hmmm. Apparently you ARE a d!ckhead Hawking. You've spent what, 9 years on here moaning about "nobody loves me because I'm short". So you got teased a bit about it. So you retaliate by bringing someone's dead son? Nice. Shows all sorts of character there. And just so you know, you never forget who you give birth to, never. It comes up daily in thought or a memory or a smell or a piece of music or something as simple as seeing his eyes in my grandson's eyes. It's just way easier not answering the questions, digging up the memories when someone who is pretty much a stranger says "how many kids do you have?".

Look at Slaffa, he's been here for 9 years too and at the perfect 5'11", he's still here on the hunt for Ms. Perfect. So apparently height has not much to do with it. It might get you in the door quicker but if you're a d!ck, you're a d!ck and the women won't stay and play.

Grow up Hawking. You're boring. And you're a d!ck.
 Chromis1
Joined: 9/9/2015
Msg: 222
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 11:33:29 AM

FACT: Very few women search by any parameter before sending an email. At least the ones over fiftyish.


SLAFFA, you sure about that? Certainly woman more often restrict their searches by age, and my guess is that a good number use race, income and height limiters, as well. Even those over 50. If you have a link to a study that demonstrates otherwise, I'd be interested in reading it.
 Chromis1
Joined: 9/9/2015
Msg: 223
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 11:40:28 AM

hmmm, I guess the 6' tall, good looking, billionaire I met for a coffee date on match.com didn't get the memo.


Does he need a Butler? Maybe a chauffeur? Tell him that his height and looks are irrelevant to me.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 224
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 12:06:02 PM

I don't see these many women who will date shorter men out and about. Same height, maybe.


I was just helping a woman in the profile review section that was asking how she could show she's open to dating shorter men on her profile. If a woman is into a guy, it doesn't matter what his height is.


That said, the majority of the women I’ve dated have been taller than me. But of course, the majority of women are taller than me. Most were only 1 or 2 inches taller than me, though there were about 3 that were 5’8+. How do I explain that? Teenagers and college-aged women are both easier to manipulate/trick and much more open-minded than 40-year-old women. I’ve never had a date with anyone older than 24, and most were 18, 19, 20 (again, recall that last date was 9 years ago so I was much younger). 40-year-old women have figured out exactly what they want (which apparently includes not having to stoop in heels to kiss their lovers after having done so a few times in their youth), know every trick in the book and many are perfectly happy not dating at all if the perfect man’s not around (which is often not the case with young women).


That's not true. My girlfriend is older than me and I find older women to be more open minded than younger women. It should actually be easier to pick up intelligent women with more life experience because they will understand the things you say to them. You get far less of the "tee hee hee, what?"


Plus, the ones on the market... are by far and large, as one of our good friends in the forum put it, “broken bottles.” The young women with the awesome attitudes toward short men and interracial relationships that I dated either got gobbled up in a long term relationship by an awesome guy, never to be on the market again, or they got burned so many times they turned bitter. And the remainder largely consists of women so picky they couldn’t ever pick a guy before from the many far superior suitors, so why the hell would they pick me now? 40-year-old single women who are open-minded about who they date hardly exist – certainly not at the same rate and in mass numbers as 18-year-old single women who are open-minded about who they date.


What kind of strange reality are you living in? Lots of women in their 30's and 40's and very open minded. Most of them are more comfortable with their sexuality because they have more experience than younger women. Your whole problem is your bad self esteem and terrible attitude. You see everyone else as a "superior suitor". Dude, I don't care how much money other men make or what they're good at. In my reality, no man is a "superior suitor" and deserves the woman more than me. It's so easy to see why you're not doing well. Women can tell you're insecure about your height, and they can tell that you don't even think of yourself as a good lover. That's why they reject you when you ask. You, as a person, have to be congruent with what you're saying.


And, yes, I wouldn’t doubt that she was upset mostly because I took 3 years to pull that trigger and she had “friend-zoned” me by that point, even though we were only “Hooters friends.”


You clearly care about the situation way more than her if you're scared to go back to the same restaurant, which is ridiculous. Three years to pull the trigger is a long time, but I have no idea what you're saying to people when you ask them out. One of the main problems is usually that people go from zero (friendly) to asking a woman out to a romatic date with no steps in between.


My female friends were with me for most of my “random stranger” rejections of the same period and claimed I did nothing much wrong with my approach – those women just weren’t “into me.” That said, I undoubtedly get a few rejections/non-approaches each night I’m out with them because “random stranger” women think I’m “with” them (especially my best friend, because we look like a natural couple, although she is so far out of my league that most MEN assume we’re not together and act like I’m not there, including cutting in between us while we’re dancing, but women look at the situation completely differently, I think).


Dude, your female friends don't have to worry about approaching women. You should be killing it if you have female wings with you. It was day and night when I used to go across the border to go to the night clubs. When I went with my female friend, I sang karaoke with girls that gave me their numbers, a woman offered to let me stay at her place next time I came to town, I got the bartender's number, and I did way better than when I went there with my guy friends. The difference is that I was also friendly with the men. I made plans with a dude that's into boxing to meet the next day and learn some new techniques. You have to work the room, you can't just walk up cold to random women and ask for their phone number. You should be building attraction with the women you talk to so they ask if you're dating the woman you came to the club with. That's the perfect opportunity to communicate your value. There are so many things you could say right there that will help you build attraction and get the number/kiss/etc.


Do you think *I* care? At least as far as deciding whether or not I'm going to ask out a woman? I'm acknowledging the competition exists and is superior in this thread. That doesn't factor into my decisions to approach women, here or real life. Unless the competition is actually literally standing in my way. Then I move on to someone else. You don't pile up thousands of rejections by being timid, by sitting at home with a "woe is me" attitude. I'm more social than MANY of you -- I meet far more people than almost all of you. "not getting out there" and "fearing the competition" are two things that are most definitely not contributing to my failures. I know that drives you guys crazy, because it doesn't make any sense to you that I might have a fairly normal life with a half-decent personality and am still dateless, but I'm afraid that is the case.


What is this "superior" crap? It's in your head and that's why you're failing. A guy that works at a retail store can do better in a club than a rich guy that drives a nice car because lots of those guys come across as trying too hard to impress women and if you can let go and show that you're more fun to be around and you don't care, you can run circles around those guys. You're dateless because of your attitude. You shouldn't be getting thousands of rejections. Women in your social circle should be asking you out because you show that you're a natural leader and you don't care what people think about you. It makes perfect sense to me why you're getting rejected. Your body language, eye contact, and attitude most likely aren't congruent with what you're saying to people.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 9/15/2015
Msg: 225
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 12:17:53 PM

SLAFFA, you sure about that? Certainly woman more often restrict their searches by age, and my guess is that a good number use race, income and height limiters, as well. Even those over 50. If you have a link to a study that demonstrates otherwise, I'd be interested in reading it.


Well, according to Funeral Times, women over 80 no longer care about height and search for a different criteria.

1) Must be able to get out of chair unaided.
2) Must be able to use your privates unaided.
3) Must have current life insurance. (potential income has replaced height)
4) Not able to see clearly is a plus.

Tough standards, not every can meet them.
 Chromis1
Joined: 9/9/2015
Msg: 226
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 2:14:52 PM

Well, according to Funeral Times,


Saw the same article in "Assisted Living the Dream".
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 227
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 2:27:44 PM
Is it a turn-off for women if a guy pre-arranges his funeral and doesn't get a top-of-the-line casket. and instead, gets the econobox?
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 228
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LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 2:28:29 PM

Apparently you ARE a d!ckhead Hawking. You've spent what, 9 years on here moaning about "nobody loves me because I'm short". So you got teased a bit about it.

Even though it was a pretty harsh statement he threw at you, to be fair, he's not "nobody loves me because I'm short". He's arguing points. He's not whining woe-is-me. In fact, one of the criticisms is that he's TOO OK with it (thus telling him that he carries less weight in what he can/can't do on the market).

Look at Slaffa, he's been here for 9 years too and at the perfect 5'11", he's still here on the hunt for Ms. Perfect. So apparently height has not much to do with it.

Unless I misread what you're saying -- Hawking's 5'3" (listed at 5'4").

Certainly woman more often restrict their searches by age, and my guess is that a good number use race, income and height limiters, as well. Even those over 50.

I would agree. Although over 50 starts having a closer to equal # of men & women (less options for the gals) and one being less stringent on specifics, I can easily see age being a filter. Maybe less stringent on other things, for perusing? Sure. But good luck for a guy 5'5" and under coming up in gals' searches of any age, while she being at Least above-average Jane looking.

If a woman is into a guy, it doesn't matter what his height is.

Let's be fair though -- when it comes to the internet or people-watching anywhere else -- for a woman to be attracted/interested in a guy, it Does very much matter what his height is. For 90% of the guys she's scanning, the height won't be an issue (him being roughly taller than she; or for a pretty tall gal, a guy at least roughly the same height as she).

Lots of women in their 30's and 40's and very open minded. Most of them are more comfortable with their sexuality because they have more experience than younger women.

If they're not on the rebound from a long-term divorce and new to the singles scene that they haven't experienced since early college -- yes, I totally agree with you.

You should be killing it if you have female wings with you.

Very true. Unless his female friends always want to be isolated in the corner of the bar/club/etc every time going out, socially cutting themselves off -- yes, he should be killing it. I'm sure said gals want him to meet n greet girls. They don't have to be that enthused about it -- just opened up mingling with people out there, wherever they're at. As long as the guy isn't projecting an image like he's the gay-friend or something -- as you say, he's going to be projecting value. But I think Hawking's given up. I don't think he's mopey about it -- he's just accepted it. He probably goes about things as if he's already been married for 10 years. It's just when this topic comes up, he over plays the uphill battle while also nixing over-optimistic stuff (because let's face it, too many people think it's not a big thang; it is, especially if the guy's significantly shorter than guys who are a bit below average height).
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 229
view profile
History
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 2:29:15 PM
“If a woman is into a guy, it doesn't matter what his height is.”

Besides that being one of those self-fulfilling properties (she can’t be into him unless she’s into his height), there’s also the matter that it’s not even true often after it has been fulfilled. I’ve seen numerous postings from women on here in which they started dating a shorter guy, thought they were going to be okay with it, then had to break up with him because they slowly learned they couldn’t handle it – and, yes, they said it was entirely because of his height (or the height difference). Others have said dating shorter men taught them the lesson not to do it anymore, sometimes because he supposedly had a Napoleon complex but just as often because the height difference drove them crazy and they didn’t want to deal with that again.

“My girlfriend is older than me and I find older women to be more open minded than younger women.”

Yeah, my experience is 100% the opposite of that. Common sense is 100% the opposite of that. In fact, there is a well-known expression related to it: “If You Are Not a Liberal at 25, You Have No Heart. If You Are Not a Conservative at 35 You Have No Brain.” This is not just about politics (in fact, it’s probably not that much about politics at all). My ex-girlfriend was wild and crazy and extremely open-minded when she was 18 and we were dating; a few months away from becoming a parent, she’s become stone cold conservative, thanks to 10 years of experimenting and experiencing and learning what she does and does not want. I am in fact no different – my desperation doesn’t change the fact that I’ve experienced many different types of women and now have much stronger preferences of what I want than I did in my early 20s. It just doesn’t matter what I want, because I still have to take what I can get.

And I’m not talking about open-mindedness in sexuality (which does seem to increase among females with age) – I’m talking about open-mindedness in whom they are willing to consider dating (or get talked or tricked into dating). Now eventually you do get to a point where open-mindedness becomes a necessity (because there are just less men), and what’s important to a woman evolves over the years (“cool hair” from teenage years probably loses its importance when most men start losing their hair), but 30s and 40s is not that point. A single, childless woman in her 30s is the most selective woman on earth, because she has no time to be fooling around with guys that aren’t marriage-material and she is a high commodity due to being rare and therefore can afford to be that selective, despite there being so few single guys at that point. There is absolutely no reason for such a woman to be more “open-minded” about who she’ll date. Now if she’s in her 30s, weighs 250 pounds, has 5 children... that’s another situation entirely.

You living in metropolitan Canada and me living in what is technically still the Deep South (Florida be cracker country beyond the beaches and Disney) probably means the women we’re surrounded by are very different. I swear, every other picture I come across is of a woman holding a dead animal. If I was still in Alabama, I’m sure it would be EVERY picture instead of every other picture.

“You have to work the room, you can't just walk up cold to random women and ask for their phone number.”

I will ask a woman to dance at a club “cold” – seems to work most other guys (hell, works on my female friends, and as I just noted, they’re married!) – of course, only works if the woman is attracted or too drunk to say know. But phone number? That I build up to. Now at a party or other event, completely different protocol since I probably wouldn’t be at a party if I didn’t know the host or an event if I didn't know the subject, so it’s pretty easy to start small talk at such things (unless I am the host... which is the case with almost every party or event I've been part of the last few months -- as host, you just have to move from person to person and can't make solid connections with anyone).

“Women in your social circle should be asking you out because you show that you're a natural leader and you don't care what people think about you.”

AGAIN, all of the women in my social circle are MARRIED (with the one “little sister” exception). Back when I was dating my girlfriend and my social circle included a whole bunch of attractive single women, I got hit on a lot... but was in a relationship! All those young women grew up and got married. Everybody I know is married (or in some kind of long term committed relationship), with the only exceptions being “little sister” and a handful of really bad ideas. How do I know they’re bad ideas? You know anybody for 10+ years, you can figure out if they’re “bad ideas.” My ex-girlfriend’s childhood friend who used to hit on me all the time when I was dating her friend is now single again and we reconnected at a wedding recently – I could try that, you know, if I wanted a nearly exact repeat of the girlfriend situation, including the racist future mother-in-law aspect. Some bad ideas just shouldn’t be pursued.

michelinman2: You seriously going to accuse ME of being a d!ck after you posted this: “I'm happy to see the ‘I Will Die a Virgin’ thread is still going on” and then tried to trick me into making my next post say “LADIES - I Will Die a Virgin”? You keep bringing that lame message board game, I will burn you down to the goddamn ground and send you back to the Stone Age, you misanthropic internet troll. You can’t be expected to be treated as a real person with real feelings if you spend half your time on here screwing around with a bunch of alternate personalities and handles, michelin“man” who somehow gave birth.

And the worst thing is, you made me agree with Sunshine Girl about something. I can NEVER forgive you for that.
 SunshineGirl__
Joined: 10/7/2014
Msg: 230
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 2:57:45 PM

It might take another million years of evolution before women realize that taller doesn't necessarily mean stronger and braver, and that most women won't need a tall, strong guy to protect them from dragons or wild boars or grizzly bears chasing them.


Where are the posts by unevolved women who said that? List them, please.

Do you really think a woman can’t tell if a man is strong??

Why is it so difficult to accept SOME women PREFER taller men. and so what if we do? If so many women are willing to date shorter men, there ya go. There is no demanding all women change their preferences to include you, and the reasons for their preferences are really irrelevant to you.

I’ve dated a man who claimed to be 5’8” but was actually eye to eye with me. he was a body builder so his top half was nice and muscular, but his legs were stubby and weird; kind of like bow legged, tadpole legs that didn’t match the rest of him. It really turned me off.

You know women may not need a man to fight dragons but that doesn’t mean we don’t want a nice muscular well built sexy hunk of a man to wrestle with between the sheets.
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 231
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 5:09:27 PM
I'm going to marry Hawking. He fights the good fight... and usually he is on point
Sexy hunks are all good, end of the day I want someone who gets my jokes.
PLus I'd be pissed he slays my dragon - Sparky is a good companion. Plus I never have to search for a Bic
 michelinman2
Joined: 1/11/2016
Msg: 232
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 5:33:49 PM
^^^ You're tall amd elegant. You can tuck him in a bag like a one of those purse dogs like Paris Hilton.
 FullMoonGuy
Joined: 3/7/2014
Msg: 233
LADIES - I Will Die a Virgin
Posted: 1/25/2016 5:39:20 PM

So, to sum up, you have one life, and you should enjoy it with whomever you find attractive, and don't worry about what other people think.


Absolutely.
Especially since all the people YOU find attractive also find YOU attractive, and cooperate without question.

Not.


I don't see these many women who will date shorter men out and about. Same height, maybe.


Quite correct.
Supported by the link Dragon provided:

" Things aren’t so different in the United States. In 2009, the Panel Study of Income Dynamics, a survey of more than 5,000 families by the University of Michigan, found that 92.2 percent of men were taller than their spouses (in 1986, that figure was 92.7 percent)."

When I have done my own specific observational studies, I have found the same thing.
Regardless of race or ethnicity, 8 or 9 out of 10 couples, in the long run, will feature a man taller than the woman.
 CynthiaSM
Joined: 3/29/2014
Msg: 234
LADIES - A Question of Height...
Posted: 1/25/2016 5:50:21 PM


hmmm, I guess the 6' tall, good looking, billionaire I met for a coffee date on match.com didn't get the memo.

Does he need a Butler? Maybe a chauffeur? Tell him that his height and looks are irrelevant to me.

Interesting side note - a friend of mine from high school; brilliant, valedictorian, full scholarship to Yale blah blah blah, dropped out of college to become personal valet (not 'boy toy') to some uber wealthy businessman. Traveled the world. Come to think of it, Mark is 6' and good looking. Coincidence? I think not.

But sorry, no can do. The meet didn't go well. Neither of us liked the other much. He retired from the evil empire about a week after our meet and his new company is only a couple blocks from mine. Hoping we don't run into each other at Starbucks. Come to think of it, his name is also Mark. Curiouser and curiouser.
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