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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon      Home login  
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 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 101
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in OregonPage 5 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
Sad someone lost their life here; glad it was just the one. Goodle boyz way out foxed this time, though.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 102
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/27/2016 3:02:13 PM
its ironic that their bragging they won't be taken alive, etc might make surrender that much harder. Hoisted by their own petard, perhaps. Sure hope the officer involved had a body camera to record what really happened.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 103
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/27/2016 4:54:39 PM
Well, feds drew first blood. Interesting what will happen next.

Momma- The feds did hear that because they killed that man (while surrendering???) 100s more are on their way (feds forgot about that "don't create a martyr" rule) so they are blocking access to the park.

Can the comments be interpreted as liberals supporting BLM abuses? Google the Berkeley study.
 BlackOnyx48
Joined: 1/7/2016
Msg: 104
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/27/2016 6:08:16 PM
Come if they want, and get laid out like the rest of them.
It wouldn't surprise me if the guy was trying to surrender...but I doubt it, regardless the Government drew first blood, and now either they fight or flee...at this point...if I was in charge, I'd hand them a deadline to surrender....
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 105
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/27/2016 6:12:27 PM
The reports I've read say that they planned this arrest very carefully to ensure there wouldn't be any violence. It's likely that the guy shot was pointing a gun.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 106
view profile
History
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/27/2016 8:19:24 PM
Message 105 ...
It seems like it would have been easier to surround the facility and close water, food, electricity, and fuel from entering.
I think that was already discussed and I'm thinking I heard they don't want to do that because it's cold and for one, they don't want water pipes bursting.

It worked well that they let them come and go back peacefully ... because they were able to arrest 2 of them peacefully in town shopping for groceries.

Message 108 ...
... 100s more are on their way (feds forgot about that "don't create a martyr" rule) so they are blocking access to the park.
Well that's not the real reason they are blocking access to the park ... but I bet it makes you feel good to sit around and make some shyte up like that.

Message 110 ...
It's likely that the guy shot was pointing a gun.
I have heard reports that they have a recording / video of how it went down. Given that they were attempting to do the arrests as peacefully as possible, I'm wondering if the man (who was under the tarp and said he'd shoot if someone pointed a gun at him) was also equally seeking peace or did he emerge from the vehicle with "I'm gonna shoot someone" on the brain? I'm thinking the latter.
 Kashmir60
Joined: 1/19/2016
Msg: 107
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/28/2016 6:09:46 AM

Authorities are saying he was reaching for his waistband when he was shot. This was after he raced away in his car and ran into a snow bank. There is video footage of this occurrence. The authorities are considering releasing it in an effort to shut people up about how this thug terrorist was trying to surrender.


Now that's fresh. If it had of been a black man after a highspeed chase that was shot by LE "reaching for his waist band" you would be the one that wouldn't shut up.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 108
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/28/2016 6:17:11 AM

Authorities are saying he was reaching for his waistband when he was shot. This was after he raced away in his car and ran into a snow bank. There is video footage of this occurrence. The authorities are considering releasing it in an effort to shut people up about how this thug terrorist was trying to surrender.


There's an eye witness report from one of the militia that LaVoy Finicum was shot before he drove into the snowbank and that he was exiting the car with his hands in the air.
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 109
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/28/2016 7:17:13 AM
"Kashmir, would you please tell us who you were in your former posting career,"


Artist formerly known as Prince??? Hahahaha! :D




"Whenever a poster deletes their old profile, they should have to come back and tell us who it is we are talking to now."


That seems like a reasonable request...except for the teeny tiny fact that the majority of disappearing profiles...particularly, as of late....are not self deleted.

So Skooch....can you see where that may pose a bit of a problemo? ;)
 Kashmir60
Joined: 1/19/2016
Msg: 110
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/28/2016 7:21:54 AM
[quotw]The difference between some of the black men who were reaching for their wastebands and this thug terrorist is that some of the black men who were shot didn't have a gun on them at all. This thug was armed and dangerous. You should try to keep context in your rants.

Really? So out out of all the LE involved shootings referenced in threads here, which one's didn't you climb on the soapbox and scream about how unjustified LE was?

What it comes down to is as long as you deem them a thug it's justified and the others need to shut up. I don't see how you can be anymore hypocritical than that.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 111
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/28/2016 7:53:36 AM
Even I have to agree with you, kash. (#118).
Watch the dissembling by them begin.

What I have said all along is if people justify the shooting and killing of black men under questionable, unjustifiable and suspect circumstances, as unchecked power knows no friends or kin, it will happen to others as well.

However, rather than, " ha ha, now you know," everyone should work together so that it happens less to everyone.
 BlackOnyx48
Joined: 1/7/2016
Msg: 112
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/28/2016 6:25:23 PM
More of these roaches came out of hiding today, now would be the time to go in there and flush them out.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 113
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/29/2016 1:15:52 PM

under questionable, unjustifiable and suspect circumstances,

Mmm... yes... "questionable and suspect"...

And this certainly raises some... "questions" and "suspicions"... really... as any police shooting should... and I think the biggest... in this case... is "What was different in this man's circumstances?"... after all... with multiple arrests occurring at the same time... in the same location... by the same agents... and him being the only one killed...

This is made even more curious by the consideration that there were others in the same truck... 3 to 4 others... one of whom apparently wasn't even arrested... much less killed... and none of them were killed... Why is that...? Why just this one...?

However, rather than, " ha ha, now you know," everyone should work together so that it happens less to everyone.

Ah... but the shame and indignity of being the target of the "ha, ha"... will often "shake the tree" where logic, fact and common sense have failed...

I would think you would know a lot about that...
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 114
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/29/2016 1:54:04 PM

Mmm... yes... "questionable and suspect"...

And this certainly raises some... "questions" and "suspicions"... really... as any police shooting should... and I think the biggest... in this case... is "What was different in this man's circumstances?"... after all... with multiple arrests occurring at the same time... in the same location... by the same agents... and him being the only one killed...


All this malarkey is fluff Joe! Eye witness's saw Finicum with his hands in the air when he was shot...That video being shown is a fake...ask anyone!


According to eyewitness Victoria Sharps, a woman who was in Finicum’s truck when it was stopped by law enforcement, there is no question about whether the rancher had his hands in the air or if he was shot unprovoked.

“He was just walking, with his hands in the air, and they shot him dead,” Sharps said, adding, “His hands were still up after he was dead.”
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/oregon-occupiers-ambushed-highway-lavoy-finicum-killed-cold-blood-hands-up/

The video in the lamestream news is an obviously doctored fake. The FBI assassinated Finicum!
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 115
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History
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/29/2016 2:19:17 PM
Message 123 ...
The FBI assassinated Finicum!
Of course they did!

That's why they set up the other roadblocks and offered that the home-grown terrorists could peacefully surrender. Don't cha know they did that so they could lure the others to the roadblocks and assassinate them too ... eh?

I have a feeling that Finicum was on a sugar-high from all those candy "dadit dadoos" they were ummm ... "consuming" ... yeah, that's the word I was looking for.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 116
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/29/2016 3:01:29 PM
the overhead video, short version:

http://news.yahoo.com/video/watch-deadly-shooting-oregon-militia-054808178.html

everyone can judge for themselves.
 BBEisBack
Joined: 9/16/2015
Msg: 117
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History
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/29/2016 3:19:34 PM
If you have trouble loading that Video, here's one on Youtube........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04OXDrZtKUM

I just hope the FBI weren't yelling for him to "Drop the Gun" & then shot Him when He tried to comply.....

The proper procedure, in that situation, would be have him lock his fingers behind His head & go to His knees or prone....

But there is no way I'm calling this a Bad Shoot, with the information We now have........
 BlackOnyx48
Joined: 1/7/2016
Msg: 118
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/29/2016 7:47:20 PM
I just went on youtube and watched the unedited version and it does cause concern.
It appears that he was trying to surrender to the officers directly in front of him.
He was reaching for something in his coat...maybe trying to throw his weapon to the ground...maybe not, however the officers were not in danger being no weapon had been presented.

Suddenly out of nowhere jumps another officer...it looks like that scared or confused him, and that was it...he killed him.
That officer was without cover, making him vulnerable...which was stupid, unprofessional and extremely dangerous.
In fact...that's exactly what you would do if your intention was to kill him...

Yes, I wanted this to end...but it was not necessary to kill that man.
 mark/1948
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 119
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Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/29/2016 8:08:44 PM
i watched this shooting as well. being from chicago i know about unjustified shootings. i saw him reach down toward his pocket twice, then bam. context is important, he was trying to evade, saying he didn't want to die in a box, and had intent . the whole group wanted a bloody confrontation. except the 4 non-patriots still on the reserve want to go home, only if they won't get arrested. the people of the town didn't want them there, and the feds showed great restraint. they tried to negotiate, but these people from another state wanted none of it. causes are important, and people will die for theirs ideas. however in the u.s. we try to use the courts, and these cowboys didn't want any of that. i'm a liberal by nature, but want justice no matter who breaks the law.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 120
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/30/2016 5:02:26 AM
I watched the whole thing on Youtube. He clearly was FIRST shot when he had his hands UP and he was surrendering.

Look at the recoil on the cop shooting him as well as the jerk of the man shot.

His hands went down ( I am guessing to where they shot him, don't know) and then they continued to shoot him.

Even some who hate the bunch admit that. But they contend that the man "deserved it" and "well, he wanted to die anyway,"
and "Well, if they hadn't taken over the park . . . " (see above)


Always amazed at what fear makes people tell themselves. And the bloodlust of liberals is also interesting in this case. (see above)
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 121
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/30/2016 5:28:34 AM
I can't watch youtube (am on dialup), but I wonder why the police feel the video is "clearing"?

I feel pretty sorry for the lot of them. As well as the locals whose lives have been pretty scary for the past month. And for the Native peoples, whose artifacts have been messed with.

No one deserves to be shot for being a damn fool, or looting, and/or being krezzy. Ever. But give enough guns, words, actions to enough peeps and sooner or later, it's likely to happen. LaVoy Finicum was the definition of likely.
 BlackOnyx48
Joined: 1/7/2016
Msg: 122
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/30/2016 6:41:42 AM
The Government set a horrible example of community trust when they killed this man.
We are all aware of the fight or flight syndrome...which is what seemed to occur here...all they had to do was give him a minute to decompress...but they rushed him, what did they think was gonna to happen...
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 123
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/30/2016 8:47:59 AM

however the officers were not in danger being no weapon had been presented.
....
Yes, I wanted this to end...but it was not necessary to kill that man.

Ah... therein lies "the rub" in this...

Clearly, the officers acted according to... standard procedures and training... for police in the US... which typically boils down to "shoot at the first hint, go home afterwards"...

I couldn't agree more... that the "threat" should be SO immediate... as to present the very real likelihood (and I do mean likelihood, not mere perception of possibility) of the officer being "cleared" posthumously... eg. weapon drawn... and possibly (I'm still a little conflicted on this one) actually in use at the time (as in, being fired)...

But that isn't how police are trained in the US... thanks primarily to... wait for it... the conservative "tough on crime" mantra... They are the ones who pushed this "shoot first, go home" mantra... That simply being "suspect" made ones life less valuable than the officer's...

Get rid of that little bit of nonsense... and police shootings in general... and among specific populations... will likely drop dramatically...

all they had to do was give him a minute to decompress...but they rushed him, what did they think was gonna to happen...

Agreed again... but then what would you expect... it is how police are trained pretty much everywhere in the US... Again, drop the "Wyatt Earp School of Police Training" and these incidents will drop for everybody...

Although... I am going to go out on a limb... and suggest that... given that he reached for his gun... not once but twice... this one was already headed in that direction... He had plenty of time to calm down... 3 1/2 minutes that he was sitting idling on the roadway while his colleagues were peacefully and non-violently arrested just meters behind him... the time that he ALREADY had his hands up BEFORE he reached into his coat, twice... These strike me more as acts of deliberation than panic...

I watched the whole thing on Youtube. He clearly was FIRST shot when he had his hands UP and he was surrendering.


And I bet you downloaded a reliable copy... pulled it into your $1000+ video processing software... so you could "onion-skin" it frame-by-frame... and compare relative movements in fraction of a second intervals too brief to be accurately received by the human eye (which is why video works in the first place)... so that you could confirm what you only believe you saw (hint: this is where that "fraction of a second" bit becomes really important)...

His hands went down ( I am guessing to where they shot him, don't know) and then they continued to shoot him.

How do you get "hands went down" from "grasping the lapel of the jacket, pulling it open and reaching into the jacket"...?

Is that an example of the "powerful observational skills"... that allowed you to analyze full motion video... by eye... in 1/30th of a second intervals... even though doing so is physically improbable to impossible... even with a pause button...?
 8inscrew
Joined: 11/17/2014
Msg: 124
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/30/2016 9:06:33 AM
The video looked to me to show:

Feds chasing the truck into a road block.
The driver ditching the rig rather then ram the road block.
A cop bolted in fear, running south. Running right in front of the truck as it entered the ditch.
The driver hop out in fear, no frog voice. No training.
Then a few seconds of omnidirectional ass chewing.
Which of course is impossible to placate.
Then the bolting cop regains composure and assassinationises his ass.

(Probably mad and embarrassed that he broke weak and bolted. Almost getting his dumb ass run over.)

Then the video is disseminated to the population, to set a standard for them to get used to.

Ok. We get it. Now show us the twin peaks video. It's almost been a year.

Edit... big difference between being militant and being "a" militant.
We all have a duty. As others pointed out and yet others are good example why.


Vvv omnidirectional ass chewing examaple:

Bad guy #1.. GET ON THE GROUND! DO IT NOW! OR I WILL KILL YOU!
Bad guy #2... DROP THE GUN! DO IT NOW! OR I WILL KILL YOU!

Who was he trying to obey first?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 125
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 1/30/2016 9:25:16 AM

I watched the whole thing on Youtube. He clearly was FIRST shot when he had his hands UP and he was surrendering.


Was that after Finicum just missed running over the FBI agent on his way into the snowbank? I watched the video myself, "onion-skinned it frame by frame" and I clearly saw the FBI agent to the right shoot Finicum while his hands we in the air...yep, Finicum takes a bullet from the guy to the right, reaches down...and slowly turns to the guy to the left and is shot again....and everything I've seen on the internet confirms this. So what if the guy had a 9mm tucked in his waist-pants...doesn't everyone? I'm just surprised that the FBI released the full unedited video for the world to see...why didn't they just shoot Finicum in the hand??? or just wing him...every movie I've seen with "real good guys" just wings the bad guy...why didn't the FBI do this?


A cop bolted in fear, running south.


Was this the one who almost got run over?


Then the bolting cop regains composure and assassinationises his ass.


I'm afraid you're wrong. The agent who was almost run over goes to the front of the grey truck and another agent who was in front of the grey truck moves to the left pointing his weapon at Finicum...this agent was stationary at the time Finicum ditched his truck and moved in to cover Finicum. This part is very clear in the video.
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