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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon      Home login  
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 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 201
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in OregonPage 9 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

Not Guilty verdict....From what I'm reading, they didn't present a very compelling case...


ROFLMAO...of course when charges aren't brought against Secretary Clinton, the radical reactionary conservatives cry "foul."
 BBEisBack
Joined: 9/16/2015
Msg: 202
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Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 10/27/2016 8:02:10 PM

BBE;
Not Guilty verdict....From what I'm reading, they didn't present a very compelling case...



BBI;
ROFLMAO...of course when charges aren't brought against Secretary Clinton, the radical reactionary conservatives cry "foul."


No, in fact if Trump wins and Hilary is charged, she may wish that she had gone to trial and they had put up a mediocre prosecution, While a Democrat still is in control of the DOJ...
 LLove2LaughToo
Joined: 6/6/2016
Msg: 203
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 10/28/2016 3:32:51 AM

Two things about the acquittal of Ammon Bundy and his armed followers should scare all Americans :

So it turns out that — if you get the right jury, anyway — you can occupy a federal wildlife refuge for nearly six weeks, can have multiple weapons and thousands of rounds of ammunition in your possession, and can use those weapons and ammunition to prevent federal employees from doing their jobs.

There are at least two things about the verdict in the Malheur Wildlife Refuge trial that ought to frighten any American — including those jurors who issued the acquittal.

The first is that it was a clear case of jury nullification. The jury plainly failed to enact their Constitutional duty to apply the law rather than their opinions, and speaking as a professor of politics and government as well as a citizen of the United States, that's scary.

If juries follow their opinions and not the law, then we don't have the rule of law anymore. We have a series of ad hoc popularity contests. That's bad.

But beyond the Constitutional problem, we are living in a politically frightening moment. We have a presidential candidate who has said that he might not accept the results of an election (but only if he loses).

A former U.S. Congressman, Joe Walsh, has recently insisted that if Donald Trump loses the presidential election, he'll break out his musket to, he no doubt fantasizes, fight off the coming hordes of Hillary Clinton re-education camp guards.

Trump supporters are threatening to target "certain" precincts in cities like Philadelphia. And violence and threats of violence have been a regular feature of Trump rallies.

Beyond the headlines, we are seeing a resurgence of the violence that was once endemic across the American West.

The 1970s saw the Sagebrush Rebellion as states across the west fought to reduce the federal presence in their areas.

The 1990s saw the rise of the militia movement, some of whose members and sympathizers shot at and otherwise made it difficult for federal agents to patrol the properties they oversaw.

The ‘90s also saw the emergence of the sovereign citizens' movement, a group that claimed that some Americans — basically white men — had the right to reject federal laws they found offensive or repressive.

More recently, the Constitutional Sheriffs movement currently insists that county sheriffs are the primary legal agents of their community, and are not subject to federal or other restrictions on their powers.

And now, a jury has decided that because its members don't like the federal government's presence in their lives, it is acceptable for a group of regular people to occupy a federal property, intimidate federal employees and abuse the local environment all at the same time.

It has decided that because its members do not like the federal government, the politics of personal outrage matter more than the rule of law.

Such emotional outbursts always feel good. But it is also true that those who sow chaos usually reap the whirlwind. The jury just sowed chaos. We will see what we reap.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/oregon-standoff-acquittal-scare-americans-article-1.2848280
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 204
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 10/28/2016 6:32:31 AM
Sounds like Justice Sotomayor's support for jury nullification on left issues.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 205
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 10/28/2016 6:58:15 AM

No, in fact if Trump wins and Hilary is charged, she may wish that she had gone to trial and they had put up a mediocre prosecution, While a Democrat still is in control of the DOJ...


I do believe the wind just blew up your radical reactionary repuglicant skirt-again. Have no fear, with Secretary Clinton controlling the media, rigging the polls, and having all those illegal murderers and rapists voting, there is no chance of comrade tRump winning anything.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 206
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 10/28/2016 8:06:15 AM
Since its OK for the lily white with guns to occupy anything (a second time), they'll just occupy every polling station. Get ready to mail them dildos in support. But at least wait until they claim the government that let's them go, is out to get them.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 207
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 10/28/2016 8:17:45 AM
So the radical left is worried about "militia" occupying voting places and the extreme left is worried about the black panthers occupying voting places.

One of these things is more like the other than they would like.
 BeckyHT
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 208
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Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 10/28/2016 10:26:08 AM
Oregon's citizens gave their verdict.

It was their right to do so.

It's nobody's business out of State.
 LLove2LaughToo
Joined: 6/6/2016
Msg: 209
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 10/28/2016 4:50:16 PM

Msg: 209
Yeah. That's pretty damned crazy. Gotta wonder where they found those jurors.


In the words of Joe Scarborough, "it is absolutely staggering to me that the jury acquitted all those defendants, they just spit in the Rule of Law. "
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 210
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 10/29/2016 5:27:01 AM
They yelled out of a window "We are not going to take it anymore."

The "it" being BLM taking their land and natural resources, cutting off their water, and then prosecuting them when they dare protest or complain.


Booyah.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 211
Militiamen compared to Indian demonstrators
Posted: 10/29/2016 5:48:20 AM
Surprising they aren't down in North Dakota, standing armed against the pipeline--and against MRAPs and biting dogs. It would be good militia training to see what AR-15's do against MRAPs, tear gas and SWAT. Or maybe a bunch of pale faces keeps the police calm.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/north-dakota-pipeline-protest-prompts-20-arrests-42988093
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 212
Militiamen compared to Indian demonstrators
Posted: 12/5/2016 6:40:34 AM
I hear that the protestors over the pipeline got a favorable ruling from a federal agency to temporarily stop it or at least reroute it

Hooray.

But I wonder, why do people support this protest but not the others who were protesting BLM abuses and takings?

Ethnicity is not a good enough reason.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 213
Militiamen compared to Indian demonstrators
Posted: 12/5/2016 7:59:45 AM
The BBC labeled it, "Indians finally happy with the Army". A historical pun. I thought people did support Black Lives Matter, but then I guess they weren't discussing something to do with environmental concerns

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/donald-trump-takes-on-federal-land-control/article/2579978

Or did you mean Bureau of Land Management? Their claim was Bundy didn't own the land, the government does, and he owed a mill in rental fees. Most people understand property rights--if you rent my property, you owe me money. Then Bundy made his comment about "the Negro" was better off a slave than to accept government subsidies.

"Bundy was quoted in a Times story referring to black people as “the Negro” and recalling a time decades ago when he drove past homes in North Las Vegas and saw black people who “didn’t have nothing to do.” He said he wondered if they were “better off as slaves” than “under government subsidy.”
On Thursday during an outdoor news conference near his ranch 80 miles from Las Vegas, he echoed the same sentiment: “Are they slaves to charities and government subsidized homes? And are they slaves when their daughters are having abortions and their sons are in the prisons? This thought goes back a long time.”

http://www.mintpressnews.com/clive-bundy-defends-racist-remarks-loses-supporters/189619/

Not only does that sound racist (even supporters of him dropped him like a hot potato), it sounds like he means he thinks he was getting a government subsidy...and again, not paying for it.

So, I guess that's why he doesn't get national support. Identity politics doesn't seem to work across the nation. But it was an interesting comparison to bring up, I guess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff

 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 214
Militiamen compared to Indian demonstrators
Posted: 12/5/2016 8:10:18 AM

Ethnicity is not a good enough reason.


But, religion is,,,, correct?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 215
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Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 12/5/2016 8:42:07 AM
Message 221 ...
Dee ...
... why do people support this protest but not the others who were protesting BLM abuses and takings?

I support the Native Americans because the land involved that stands to be polluted is their water source. Without that water how should they exist?

Mind you, it appears that it's okay to poison water used by Native Americans, but not people who live in Bismarck. It seems odd that the pipeline was originally supposed to run upstream of Bismarck but that route got rejected because of the close proximity to the state capital's drinking-water wells.

ie. to Hell with being concerned about Native American drinking water ... state capital drinking water is much more precious?

Then there is the problem with running the pipeline through land that contains recently discovered sacred sites and burial places ... land that had been taken away (unjustly over the past 150 years) from the Native Americans.

Dakota Access apparently is stating that it will employ “new advanced pipeline technology” to limit leaks. So then if that's the case, why can't they just put the pipeline back upstream of Bismarck? That way it wouldn't poison the Native American's water supply or disturb their sacred sites and burial places ... right?
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 216
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 12/5/2016 9:06:40 AM
"Trump holds stock in Energy Transfer Partners. Pipeline opponents worry that Trump's investments could affect any decision he makes on the project as president."
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 217
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 12/5/2016 10:46:20 AM

"Trump holds stock in Energy Transfer Partners. Pipeline opponents worry that Trump's investments could affect any decision he makes on the project as president."


Didn't Trump say during his campaign that running the Trump Empire won't interfere with the job as president? (lol) Trump could try to make an excuse by saying it's part of his job creation program, so he needs to be involved in it to make sure it's profitable. If he happens to make money on it, that's just a byproduct of creating jobs. I suppose they could hire people to stick their fingers in the pipeline when it starts to leak, to stop it from leaking.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 218
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 12/5/2016 10:51:33 AM
Thanks cotter for actually explaining your thinking.
But you didn't distinguish it from the BLM abuse protesters, where one was killed.
(I support both, by the way)

As to others, if it it raining, thekkkgrandwizard saying that it is raining doest mean that it is not.

Try again.
And try to set aside your guilt this time

No, Walt. Religion is not a good enough reason either. Why do you think so?
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 219
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 12/5/2016 11:01:22 AM

No, Walt. Religion is not a good enough reason either. Why do you think so?


Can't you religion to use reasons for expulsion? If you think you can, let's use religion for reasons to do anything. Come on now. It's only fair.

Do you "get it"?
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 220
Militiamen compared to Indian demonstrators
Posted: 12/5/2016 12:31:37 PM
But I wonder, why do people support this protest but not the others who were protesting BLM abuses and takings?


I can and do support Standing Rock because the owners of the land are protesting oil interests destroying their land for profit, aided by the government. The Bundy crowd's first protest was against paying grazing fees, and using their wives, girlfriends and daughters as human shields. Second protest at Malheur, wasn't even in their own state, nor asked for by those who were so called abused. Beyond that, they used the Native Burial Ground as a latrine.

Standing Rock was given, by treaty to those who are protesting now. The Bundy crew simply wishes to make money off of land that has never belonged to them.

What I don't understand is the kid gloves used against those carrying guns and threatening harm, vs the brutal treatment of those NOT carrying guns, on their own land, not threatening anyone.

I'm GLAD GLAD GLAD that the gubmint over our history has moved to protect national treasures from oil, railroad, cattle interests and save it for all citizens.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 221
Militiamen compared to Indian demonstrators
Posted: 12/5/2016 3:27:21 PM
^^Thank Teddy R for starting that. Meanwhile one of the NRA crowd will tell us the "Injuns" got diff'rent treatment b/c they didn't have guns. Guns keeps the government out. Except members of MOVE in Phillie might disagree. Remember, children, justice is always color blind.

And mean the while, that terrible warehouse fire in Oakland....welcome to a world of Chump and getting rid of all those awful, awful government regulations. Those artsy fartsy types paying only half the market rent, gettin' by on the system. To a young mind, i'm sure the Bohemian letout is romantic, there's a similar warehouse-turned-art-space in my state. But to an adult mind, they see the extension cords and half ass construction work that isn't up to code (oh, those job killing codes the construction guys keep complaining about that kill all those jobs in the Midwest). All those poor people dead, but at least they beat those job killing, life strangling government evil regulations. Can't imagine why the government has to be so evil and put all these regulations on us. Those damn nanny-staters. Why can't they leave us alone to build a ticking timebomb like the Ghost Ship out in Oakland?

At least we have Chump, who will kill two regulations for every new one. Two birds for every one stone around our neck. Hurrah! maybe we'll have some more Oaklands as a result of freedom!
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 222
Militiamen compared to Indian demonstrators
Posted: 12/6/2016 4:12:47 AM
So Trump is responsible for Oakland? LOL. LOL LOL

You people kill me.


Oakland is the victim of leftist"we are so PC that we don't want to disturb those would-be hippies living in an unsafe place."

I am glad to see and support the Native Americans as they take a clue from the the anti-illegal immigrant and unmanaged immigration Trump supporters and realize that if they don't seek to protect themselves, their land and resources, no one else will.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 223
Militiamen compared to Indian demonstrators
Posted: 12/6/2016 7:59:49 AM
that must be why they built a wall to keep out the white protesters. Oh wait, that was the North Dakota police plan, until they backed away from spot checks for residency. Wasn't that ironic. It is nice to see that when US veterans showed up, suddenly there was a solution. I guess dogs biting veterans, explosions injuring their arms, and spraying them with water and pepper spray makes for bad press.

those poor militia groups--if only the wanna be Navy SEALS and Green Berets hadn't been lying about their service.
 Llove2LaughToo
Joined: 4/14/2018
Msg: 224
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 7/10/2018 10:44:28 PM
Hey look, Comrade Trump pardons two terrorists.

#VoteRepublicansOut2018


Trump pardons Oregon ranchers who sparked 2016 militia standoff

President Donald Trump has pardoned two Oregon cattle ranchers whose sentence for arson led armed militiamen to seize control of a wildlife refuge in 2016.

Dwight Hammond, 76, and his son Steven Hammond, 49, were convicted in 2012 after a prescribed burn on their land spread to nearby public lands in 2001.

The pair served time in jail, but a judge later ruled that they must serve their full five-year sentence.

The ruling sparked anti-government protests that left one rancher dead.

"The Hammonds are devoted family men, respected contributors to their local community and have widespread support from their neighbours, local law enforcement and farmers and ranchers across the West," the White House said in statement on Tuesday announcing their full pardon.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44775113
 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 225
Militiamen occupy U.S. national parks building in Oregon
Posted: 7/11/2018 4:59:47 AM
Yep, he's REALLY trying to win friends amongst the extremists. Those who understand the impact these two home-grown terrorists had amongst a minority of Americans, will understand what this pardon really means. Chump is truly trying to sew up his base, and how concerned he is to do this. I would love it if any law enforcement organization had something to say out loud about this, and its ramifications for future standoffs.
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