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 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 251
the harder it gets, the righter it isPage 11 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)
^^^ (Msg 250): The OP is in a meetup group of sorts-the meetup group is church. But she says everyone is coupled up already. I agree with your query about why does God let bad things happen?
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 252
Finding the Right Person is Hard and Getting Harder, Particularly, if You are a Person of Faith
Posted: 2/6/2016 10:43:00 AM
OP, why should it be "tough without a man" when you are already ONE with the ONLY Perfect Man who has ever, or will ever, exist?

Any imperfect man of the flesh, of this Fallen World, can only pale in comparison ..be a sad Second best..
 xlr8ingme
Joined: 11/29/2015
Msg: 253
the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 2/6/2016 10:47:39 AM
I do not believe God lets bad things happen. Bad things happen as a consequence to living. We all have the freedom of will to choose what we may.

Thank you for your kind words OP (Els), but as another forumite stated, some of us are happy living alone. I view unions / partnerships as an act of GOD. I have peace with this fact after two life relationships to where both of my loves have passed. I can be rather selfish with my personal time. My children have been adults for quite a number of years.

This fact continues to lead me upon my life long spiritual journey. Sometimes letting go and letting GOD, means practicing our faith. Believing what we pray for will come to pass is one heck of a test.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 254
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the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 2/6/2016 11:22:13 AM

I would think that if you have a few "must haves", like this poster, why not go to where these sorts of people mingle and hang out. Or to a Meetup group or dating site that caters to this.

I think the restrictions in their cases restricts them pretty well -- not just no-sex, and likely nothing-past-2nd-base-when-serious -- but also sharing a Fundamentalist Xian POV. Results in slim pickings. HOWEVER, with that said, for a pretty gal, it just takes more time if they're living in a well populated area. And as a recommendation, not to mention the whole "I'm a virgin and plan to stay that way 'till marriage" until they click well after the initial phase of dating (or if the guy's humping their leg in that initial phase).

If they're 40 something and never have had sex, while being in a reasonably populated arena, then it's more than just that restriction. Likely, the issue isn't the no-sex guideline and in Fundamentalism -- but an issue which brought them to that underneath it all.

if God is always there when the good stuff happens and makes the good stuff happen, where the hell is God when the bad stuff happens, like car accidents, rapes, shootings, etc. ?

It's a classical, basic argument that even a somewhat clever kid can come up with -- but it's hushed upon and treated like a small deal, instead of the painstakingly obvious big one it is. :) More importantly, why is there cancer and genetic problems not brought on by sinful behavior? Why are asteroids or bad weather coming down to kill animals (notably us)? Superstitious assumptions can only hypothetically cover so much of that. The rest is "we don't know everything, it's faith," as a response by many literalists who believe God's hand shifts things around for our betterment in nature, if we're decent and believing in Him (and not of a God of a different religion!).

Problem with that line of thinking though, is that it screams bias that goes against the gift that "God" gave us: The ability of high reason, which separates us from all other animals. If we are to give credit to God making the ball (not-so-expectedly) bounce our way, we also have to credit God for making the ball unexpectedly/"unfairly" bounce away from us. Kind of like thanking God for making them win their football game (God must have HATED Michigan in the Michigan/Michigan State game this past year -- or at least UM's punter!).

Or relevant to this topic, God is given credit for few compatible dudes showing up on a dating site's list, who don't want to hold off getting past 2nd base until marriage. :)
 sillysarainsask
Joined: 1/12/2016
Msg: 255
the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 2/6/2016 12:46:59 PM
If "Bad things happen as a consequence to living" then the opposite would apply as well. BUT, some of you think the good things that happen are because of God, which makes no sense. And what about all the things that people pray for that never come to pass...pray that your child doesn't die from cancer, for example. You can pray all you want and then your child dies. So if God does the good things then God also makes the bad things happen, just to put it simply.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 256
the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 2/6/2016 1:04:02 PM
You know, there are thread about religion where these issues are argued about. I've even put my two cents in to a few of them.

But this thread is about dating as a person of faith. If it was about Christianity and determinism, I'd be right there with you. But it's not.
 sillysarainsask
Joined: 1/12/2016
Msg: 257
the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 2/6/2016 3:43:56 PM
You may be right Sir. But.

I "think" I know why this thread turned this way. The lady in question was commenting that dating is hard and getting harder, particularly if you are a person of faith. If she had never added the " particularly if you are a person of faith", it would have been fine. See, most of us can relate that dating is hard and could have commiserated. But no, she added that little kicker. So now she's special. Then she added the , and I'm a virgin and will wait until marriage. Plus she's thrown in a few passages from the book and added in her personal beliefs. Oh, and then we had the other virgin chime in.

So that is why this thread has gone this way. People have suggested Christian Mingle and a bunch of other suggestions and that went nowhere. So maybe the answer to the original statement is the obvious - maybe God doesn't want her to date.

Dating is hard if you are a person of faith or an atheist or are a man under 5'9" or a woman over 120 pounds or have aspergers or are over 45 or have a cat or like motorcycles or are on disability or are bald or have false teeth or wear a toupee or have tattoos....the list goes on.
 LJane_6
Joined: 6/10/2015
Msg: 258
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the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 2/6/2016 4:09:32 PM
"The other virgin"...LOL
 sillysarainsask
Joined: 1/12/2016
Msg: 259
the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 2/6/2016 4:47:05 PM
^^^. No offence meant.

I actually like that you stand up for your convictions, like the virginity thing. I stand up for my convictions too, like Pro Choice and pro gay marriage and gender equality to name a few. The religion thing irks me when the God card is thrown out too many times. I don't have an issue with those that believe and have faith, why would I, most of my friends also have some sort of faith and I have quite a few Muslims in my circle, a few that believe in Wicca, a couple of Buddists, a whole pile of heathens, a whole lot of my Metis friends believe in a creater and we have the whole Mother Earth group.
 Elsadora
Joined: 3/29/2013
Msg: 260
the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 2/6/2016 5:05:54 PM
Jane 6
Is that like the other white meat?
 NJgirl116
Joined: 7/3/2015
Msg: 261
the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 2/6/2016 5:11:00 PM
I attend religious meetup groups and I have run one, and have met quite a few people including at least 2 men (could have been more but there are two whose names and faces I remember), right here in NYC, who told me they do not believe in sex before marriage. One such conversation took place at a bar on the Upper West Side, where the Catholic meetup group goes to hang out after mass on Sundays, and the gentleman was a a Japanese American Catholic. I think that the double standard for men and women is alive and well. As a convinced Christian, this gentleman states that he has an unwavering point of view that he doesn't believe in sex before marriage, and that's that. But when it is a woman stating the same, she has to hear everything that OP has had to hear in this thread.
 sillysarainsask
Joined: 1/12/2016
Msg: 262
the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 2/6/2016 5:42:00 PM
"But when a woman is stating the same, she has to hear everything that the OP has had to hear in this thread."

I totally disagree. Can you imagine what would have been said if the OP had been a 42 year old MALE virgin? It would have been far worse. For one thing, the OP's "womanhood" (if there is such a word) has not been questioned but you can bet that a 42 male virgin would immediately have his manhood questioned. Followed by "what are ya, gay?" And that would have been on the first half page.

So no, don't go playing the double standard card here, it doesn't apply at all. And if you think it does, IMO you're really reaching for some sort of gender bashing issue. It's just not in this thread.

The OP IS unwavering and no one has said to her - go get laid, that will fix all your dating problems. Again, one thing the OP has been (and the other white meat, lol) is that she (both) are unwavering. That's cool, really cool.
 NJgirl116
Joined: 7/3/2015
Msg: 263
the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 2/6/2016 5:49:18 PM

the OP has been (and the other white meat, lol) is that she (both) are unwavering. That's cool, really cool.

I agree, it's great.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 264
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the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 2/6/2016 10:32:58 PM
Most Christians I know don't follow this custom, so I can see why it's hard to find a date. Unless you get married right away, the whole dating process seems kind of silly to me. It's the same as two friends hanging out. These guys must have a minimum of a 1,000 gig hard drive.
 LJane_6
Joined: 6/10/2015
Msg: 265
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the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 2/6/2016 11:44:03 PM
@Elsadora: Haha
@Sillysara @NJGirl: Thanks
@Coma_White: For me there can be sexual chemistry without having sex. I can feel a strong attraction to someone just by talking and getting to know them, kissing, holding hands, etc., though it may sound like a Jr. High romance to some. But yeah, for most guys it's a deal breaker, especially if they have had sex before (and like I said, almost all guys have by our age). I've had a couple of boyfriends who were ok with it, but they were pretty reserved themselves, (and I think one may have been asexual, as he seemed to have no interest in me that way, and I'm the only girlfriend he's had). TBH I got pretty bored with those guys, and the "fun" Christian guys usually have single Christian women lining up to date them. So, it's frustrating. I do know some celibate Christian couples, and a lot of them do start out as friends (hanging out in groups, etc), and once it turns into more they usually don't wait long before getting married. BTW, I'm just curious to know - in your opinion, how soon does the "average" guy expect sex in a relationship?
 Xray86
Joined: 5/12/2015
Msg: 266
Finding the Right Person is Hard and Getting Harder, Particularly, if You are a Person of Faith
Posted: 2/7/2016 12:56:12 AM
Elsadora's predicament is similar to many in the Latter-Day Saints faith encounter. The Church does have a sort of sub-culture unique to Latter-Day Saints centered in Utah, but the culture changes in other areas. I've noticed that some members with a Utah mindset have a laundry list of what they think is perfection to them. But those individuals miss out on what may be perfect FOR them. I've known plenty of women that think if a man doesn't have X, Y, and Z, then he is not worthy to be with. If not worthy as a person at all. A very wrong way to think about your fellow members. Ideally you're suppose to get to know people and see past their flaws and see what positive attributes they have. There may be this return-missionary that's perfect on paper, but he may not be as good as the man who faithfully attends church and has himself in order but hasn't served a mission. Maybe the "perfect" return-missionary has extreme patriarchal views on the role of a woman. Maybe the man who hasn't served a mission was caring for his ailing mother. Which of these two is the good choice? How do you know if you don't get to know people?

In our faith, we have the Law of Chastity where a person is suppose to be celibate until they get married. We hold to this principle not because some old guy told us to, but because it's one of the basic and fundamental beliefs involving symbolism and faith. We're also realistic, not everyone is going to hold true to that for whatever reason. But repentance is there for a reason. You screw up, you get back on your feet and try again (hopefully you're genuine). I myself am not a virgin, the transgression is between myself, the woman, and God. And no one else. I recognize the Law now and I stand by anyone's decision to wait till marriage.

Again in our faith, there are going to be people who are not virgins for whatever reason. Maybe they had weaker understanding of principles at the time, maybe they were married before, and maybe they were converts. People shouldn't be judged for what happened in their past and it's none of anyone's business. The point is what the person is doing now in his or her life. I suggest to you, Miss Elsadora, that you continue to get to know people but that you expand your awareness of other types of people. Hold onto your beliefs and get to know different kinds of people and see if their beliefs are similar to yours. I know I'm definitely not first choice when it comes to a lot of (American) women in my faith. I grew up in Germany and lived around the military all my life. Very different environment from Mormonsville, Utah. I can be loud when I do speak in the group, I'm no pushover by any means, and I have worldly knowledge that would make most in the Church blush at best. But I attend church regularly, support the teachings, respectful to others, and will never take a woman for granted because I'm a man with some title and authority. Maybe the man for you is someone you wouldn't expect and who will do anything for you and be supportive.

Hope this helps.
 BlackOnyx48
Joined: 1/7/2016
Msg: 267
Finding the Right Person is Hard and Getting Harder, Particularly, if You are a Person of Faith
Posted: 2/7/2016 9:04:28 AM
GO CAROLINA PANTHERS...................
 Elsadora
Joined: 3/29/2013
Msg: 268
Finding the Right Person is Hard and Getting Harder, Particularly, if You are a Person of Faith
Posted: 2/7/2016 9:53:08 AM
Blackonyx

Amen!

So the consensus here is we all have challenges in finding a mate. Trust me when I say that I get that. My use of faith or particularly wasn't trying to be exclusionary. It was speaking more to the exclusions that exist even in the Christian world. I think the guy above blackonxy, whom if my reading is correct is Mormon, said it better than I ever could, and I thank him for it.
 FullMoonGuy
Joined: 3/7/2014
Msg: 269
Finding the Right Person is Hard and Getting Harder, Particularly, if You are a Person of Faith
Posted: 2/7/2016 12:25:17 PM

People shouldn't be judged for what happened in their past and it's none of anyone's business. The point is what the person is doing now in his or her life.


Actually, that's not quite true.

Case in point:

A woman in my area on here that I have chatted with several years ago, was in an abusive marriage. Things were great during the dating and courtship and engagement, EXCEPT, family and friends of his would occasionally say to her at gatherings, "[blank] is a changed man since he met you" or ["blank] is a different guy since he started dating you."
She never questioned what they meant by that. But she found out what they meant about 9 months into the marriage when he started abusing her emotionally and physically.
Turned out those people making the comments knew he had abused girlfriends in the past, but thought he was a "changed" man now.
Was definitely her business if she was planning to spend the rest of her life with him.
And she found out the hard way.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 270
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the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 3/1/2016 1:31:27 AM

@Coma_White: For me there can be sexual chemistry without having sex. I can feel a strong attraction to someone just by talking and getting to know them, kissing, holding hands, etc., though it may sound like a Jr. High romance to some. But yeah, for most guys it's a deal breaker, especially if they have had sex before (and like I said, almost all guys have by our age). I've had a couple of boyfriends who were ok with it, but they were pretty reserved themselves, (and I think one may have been asexual, as he seemed to have no interest in me that way, and I'm the only girlfriend he's had). TBH I got pretty bored with those guys, and the "fun" Christian guys usually have single Christian women lining up to date them. So, it's frustrating. I do know some celibate Christian couples, and a lot of them do start out as friends (hanging out in groups, etc), and once it turns into more they usually don't wait long before getting married. BTW, I'm just curious to know - in your opinion, how soon does the "average" guy expect sex in a relationship?


@LJane6
Sorry I didn't reply right away. My computer is acting up and I need to back up all my songs and such before it crashes.
Anyway, every relationship is different and things should develop at a natural pace. If a guy sees you as someone he could be with for a long time, he's not going to be picky about when the relationship goes to the next level as long as it's reasonable. A guy can lost interest if he keeps seeing signs that she's not interested in sex, but I never believed there was a requirement to sleep together on the first or second date. Yeah, it's an important part of a relationship, but you have to feel things out with each person you date because the dynamic can change so much. You hear of the "three date rule" which is normal for a lot of people too I guess, but I've had good relationships where we went way past the third date before sex.
 LJane_6
Joined: 6/10/2015
Msg: 271
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the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 3/3/2016 9:00:15 PM
I've been away from this conversation for a while, but have a few more thoughts on it:


I always thought that using the "be good or you won't go to heaven is a control thing. Just another way to use, abuse and manipulate the minds of others. I've been doing "good" all my life because....I want to do good, not because I have to or someone told me to or so I can go to heaven...or anywhere else.


The churches I've gone to do not teach that being "good" gets anyone into heaven. The idea is that we are all "sinners," that's why we need God. In other words, ask forgiveness for sins, commit to God, and then be saved. Also, they don't say you will go to hell if you don't follow the rules. In that case, everyone would be going to hell. The only "rule" that is necessary is the one I mentioned above (believe and ask forgiveness). After that, it is assumed that you will want to do good, to bless other people, please God and because he gives you the desire to do so. I completely agree that it should be the parents' (or guardians') responsibility to teach kids right from wrong. Parents can bring their kids to church if they wish, and they will receive more teaching there. But when it comes to making a decision to believe in/follow God or not, that can't be forced. Every person has to decide for themselves. If you go along with something just because you are told to, but don't really believe it, it's not your true faith. Little kids can have faith in God, as it can be grasped on a fairly simple level, while others may grow up first and then decide.


A question for those who are weekly church going members-especially for those who are looking for the same in a mate:
What exactly is the purpose of going to church once or twice a week (and possibly for the rest of your life)? If you feel you're already a good person who knows right from wrong, is willing to help out a fellow human being in need, is kind and charitable to people, then why do you need further guidance, and in what areas do you need this extra guidance?


I agree with others who say it is about finding a sense of community. And would also add that it is a way to stay strong in your faith and get support. Someone compared it to an AA meeting, and that actually makes sense. It is easier to get busy with our lives and kind of push God/our faith aside without weekly support. As for the teaching part, a person may know the "basics" but there is always room for spiritual growth. Christians see God not as a set of rules/beliefs or concepts to master, but as a person to have a relationship with and get to know better. Church is part of that. And we get guidance on a lot of different topics, not just on how to be a good person, but how to apply spiritual teaching to relationships, work, finances and many other aspects of life.

As for the "why does God allow/cause bad things to happen?" questions, those really get to me as well. TBH I don't know. I will try to explain it as it has been explained to me. God created humans to have a relationship with, but didn't want to force them to choose him, as that would not be real love. So he gave humans and the angels a free will. The devil was supposedly once an angel who turned against God because he wanted to be God himself, so God cast him out of heaven. Once the devil entered the world he tempted people to sin, and they chose to do so, even though they knew it was going against God's laws. Therefore sin entered the world and all the destruction that comes with it. The bible says that our battle is not against eachother, but against evil itself. But it also says that God has already "won the battle" and one day we will be reunited with him (in the afterlife). That's where the whole heaven/hell thing comes in, because Christians teach that in order to be with God for eternity, we must first choose God. If someone chooses to reject God, hell is the other alternative. I have issues with people who say that hell is a place of eternal torment. One bible verse describes it as "eternal separation from God." That makes more sense to me, as if one doesn't choose God, they may not be with him in heaven, but intstead may just die and that's it. I've been told I was wrong about this, though. It's pretty well impossible to know the definite answers to these questions. I base my own faith in God on the spiritual experiences I've had (feeling the presence of God and seeing him at work in my life and others). I've had atheists fight me on this tooth and nail, but they really can't be 100% certain I was wrong, or that my experiences weren't valid, either.
 LJane_6
Joined: 6/10/2015
Msg: 272
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the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 3/3/2016 9:17:17 PM
@Coma_White: No worries. And that makes sense, thanks for the feedback. I've heard about the "three date rule." To me that still seems really soon, as you don't really know someone all that well yet. But yeah, I would hope that if a guy is interested, they would wait past the first few dates if the girl wasn't ready, as long as they didn't have extremely different ideas about it (like, I wouldn't expect most guys to wait until marriage unless they themselves had already made that decision, or were quite sure they were ready to get married in the near future).
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 273
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the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 3/3/2016 9:34:29 PM

In other words, ask forgiveness for sins, commit to God, and then be saved. Also, they don't say you will go to hell if you don't follow the rules. In that case, everyone would be going to hell. The only "rule" that is necessary is the one I mentioned above (believe and ask forgiveness).

Two things though:

(a) What if you strongly error in asking for forgiveness department, but believe? It requires both, but man, you really suck at asking for forgiveness and of the bad things you do vs fellow believer Sally, she's asking for forgiveness and she gets to go to Paradise upon death, but you don't because you weren't asking for forgiveness? Nobody's going to be perfect on asking for forgiveness (just like doing rights/wrongs). I understand it's "up to God" to judge whether one was par for the course. But what if it's Obvious that they hardly did it? Could asking for forgiveness for one bad thing in one's life be enough? If so, it'd question whether asking for forgiveness would really be a requirement.

(b) What if you followed the rules better than most people in life and "top of the class", but as with any imperfect human, you Never asked (nor aimed to ask) for forgiveness? Would the serial killer who did get into Paradise and not you? Or what if you didn't Believe, and that being the reason? Serial killer in, you out? And like the level of being 'par' on the scale of asking for forgiveness, what about Believing? What if you don't really believe, but go thru the motions because you're culturally wrapped up in it, but don't Anti-believe it? Or what if you Do strongly believe in God generally matching the basic concepts that roll with said religion, but not following that religion, and again, followed the rules better than most people in life? Serial killer in, you out? :)

As for the "why does God allow/cause bad things to happen?" questions, those really get to me as well. TBH I don't know.

That's only an issue if one follows a religion where the God is all-loving, all-powerful -- which the second part is key. If he's Literally all-powerful, he can prevent bad things from happening. Not personally bad -- as I understand he'd let life continue on, as that's the process of life. But to, say, not let innocent people suffer from cancer or starvation (as just two basic examples). Completely UNNECESSARY bad things do exist outside free will. Bottom line is we wouldn't see what we see today. If God made us beings on a higher level with the ability to reason (thus responsibility) beyond all other animals, surely we should use that gift and apply it to common sense, and put Intellectual Honesty over Communal Loyalty, since that's what it's all about.
 LJane_6
Joined: 6/10/2015
Msg: 274
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the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 3/3/2016 10:03:49 PM
What if you followed the rules better than most people in life and "top of the class", but as with any imperfect human, you Never asked (nor aimed to ask) for forgiveness?

All I can say to that is God knows the heart. There is no requirement to ask forgiveness for Every. Single. Sin. (heck I'd be asking forgiveness around the clock), just an acknowledgement of the fact that you are a sinner, and you want/need God in your life. A lot of people don't want to believe or admit that they are sinners at all. So pride keeps them away from God. But again, he knows the heart. If a serial killer says, "God, forgive me, but I'm going to go on killing people anyway," I'm sure it would not be a sincere repentance. You can't "trick" God. And saying a bunch of words does not mean much if you don't believe them. Sure, I might ask forgiveness for a sin and then do the same sin again. Everyone does, and that's expected. But it's more about your intentions and whether you do truly love and respect God. I think someone can be a true follower of God in their heart without audibly speaking those words, just as someone who prays out loud and boasts about God may be a hypocrite. In fact, there is one story in the bible where God tells the "religious people" not to pray out loud (or act "spiritual") just for show. There is another verse (I'm not direct quoting any of these, I'm really bad with references), that basically says everyone has seen God (in some form, such as in nature), so we are without excuse of whether to accept or reject him.


That's only an issue if one follows a religion where the God is all-loving, all-powerful -- which the second part is key. If he's Literally all-powerful, he can prevent bad things from happening.


Yes, we believe he is all-powerful. So, he can prevent them, but he doesn't. I agree that one is a b*tch to understand. However, I do know that God gives people grace in their situations. For example, I had a friend who travelled to a very remote part of Africa (like, where people had to carry jugs of water on their heads). She got very sick there, but said it was the best experience of her life. She also said the people there were some of the happiest she'd ever seen, and they danced and gave praise to God. Now, I understand that someone terminally ill might not be able to do this. But, this same friend was later diagnosed with terminal cancer. And even during her last days when she couldn't leave the hospital bed, she had a peace and spoke about going to be with God. It doesn't make much sense to our worldly minds, but it's those kind of experiences that make me believe.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 275
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the harder it gets, the righter it is
Posted: 3/4/2016 12:13:01 AM

Yes, we believe he is all-powerful. So, he can prevent them, but he doesn't. I agree that one is a b*tch to understand. However, I do know that God gives people grace in their situations. For example, I had a friend who travelled to a very remote part of Africa (like, where people had to carry jugs of water on their heads). She got very sick there, but said it was the best experience of her life. She also said the people there were some of the happiest she'd ever seen, and they danced and gave praise to God. Now, I understand that someone terminally ill might not be able to do this. But, this same friend was later diagnosed with terminal cancer. And even during her last days when she couldn't leave the hospital bed, she had a peace and spoke about going to be with God. It doesn't make much sense to our worldly minds, but it's those kind of experiences that make me believe.


I think belief in a supernatural being is a normal human trait. It comforts people. In history, people felt the same way about Zeus, Odin, Bumba, Shango, etc. Today, people of other faiths pray to their own gods whether it be Allah, Brahma, Apistotookii, etc for peace or help with their problems. I'm not a religious man, but I don't care if other people are religious if that helps them. I think the main thing to realize is that when you use any belief system, you're programming yourself with a strong confirmation bias and after a while, it's hard to forget that programming.
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