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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Absolutely there is a God.      Home login  
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 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 101
Absolutely there is a God.Page 5 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)

The only people who would hate God would be ones who Believe


It can be the case for some people, but I think it is possible to not believe in something and hate the idea of it at the same time.



You'd like that to be true, wouldn't ya?

There are atheist who use the bible as a means to strengthen their atheism. In some sort of a sense, it is an 'atheist bible'.

I don't get it though, I would imagine an non-theist would do anything else but read the bible, but they are out there, and a few of them are in this forum. One of them responded the purpose was to enlighten themselves or for intelligence, really though? It is just silly to me, with so little time in life you figure an atheist would go read a science book or something
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 102
Absolutely there is a God.
Posted: 2/14/2016 7:01:37 AM

Posted By: Aprilikesrosasblancas
Is God Omnipotent?
Yes He is.!
But there are 2 things God can't do.

1- Cannot lie

so God wasn't lying when he said that he is a Jealous God that must be feared? ...isn't Jealousy a Sin?


2- Cannot deny who He is.

are you sure,because one time he was a burning bush and another time he was a talking donkey ..always ask for I.D.


Posted By: kidreason29
Some have a wrong idea of omnipotence, for example the "can god create a rock so heavy that god can't lift it?", is basically saying "can god non-omnipotent? No?; then god is not omnipotent, because if god was omnipotent, god could be non-omnipotent". Basically trying to twist the logic of the definition;

God grieved that he created Man which points to his imperfection and creating "non-omnipotence-ally"


Posted By: kidreason29
" it is like saying, 'can god create a square with only three sides? No? then god is not omnipotent". Incorrect.

magicians do it all the time...it's called an optical illusion ..but yet God is incapable of performing such a feat, isn't reality all just an illusion ..some even believe it's a Hologram


Posted By: kidreason29
It is like an atheist who always talks about Christianity. "You mean an athiest would sit down on a sunday afternoon and spend the rest of the night reading the bible? Yes." Kinda moronic,

is it because they might become brainwashed?


Posted By: kidreason29
it is just someone loathing in their own hatred without realizing it.

damn why can't I believe in unprovable things like God or Bigfoot like everyone else.....I must be loathing in self-hatred


"can god create a rock so heavy that god can't lift it?"

believer are "forbidden" to answer that question they will try to take the question off topic or attempt to turn the question in on you or start speaking in parables ..but answer it not
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 103
Absolutely there is a God.
Posted: 2/14/2016 8:33:28 AM
By definition there could only be a four sided square. It would be I believe that it is a square(the illusion is my belief), (A ~= B; but I believe A = B)



is it because they might become brainwashed?

if everything is an illusion, then what is being brainwashed? Are you saying people read the bible to not become brainwashed, or they are reading it because they are?
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 104
Absolutely there is a God.
Posted: 2/14/2016 12:14:45 PM

Posted By: kidreason29
By definition there could only be a four sided square

you guys and your definition debates, but anyway are you sure by definition a square can only have four sides or can it have 6 sides


Posted By: kidreason29
It would be I believe that it is a square(the illusion is my belief),

yes...the illusion made you "believe" that both you and the square existed in a 2-dimensional Universe when in fact you both exist in a 3-dimensional Universe ..which is why a four sided square is an optical illusion


(A ~= B; but I believe A = B)

that you "believe" that a square has only four sides is why ..."to believe is to doubt".... funches 3:16


Posted By: kidreason29
if everything is an illusion, then what is being brainwashed? Are you saying people read the bible to not become brainwashed, or they are reading it because they are?

you claimed that an Atheist that talked about Christianity or would sit and read the bible was a moron ...would the same apply to a Christian

should people only limited themselves to talk , read or debate about that which they are?, if so, then I guess I've got to stop reading Spiderman comics
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 105
Absolutely there is a God.
Posted: 2/14/2016 12:25:26 PM
Unicorns , Sasquatch, and the Loch Ness Monster exist..I've seen pictures!! As well as Ogopogo from BC Canada!!
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 106
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History
Absolutely there is a God.
Posted: 2/14/2016 1:37:33 PM

you guys and your definition debates, but anyway are you sure by definition a square can only have four sides or can it have 6 sides

It's a definition. We could call a "turkok" something with 4 equal sides, and a "square" something with back hair. The word is a human short-cut agreed upon by others, to a description, is all. But no, God cannot make something that has only 4 sides have 6 sides -- while also still having only 4 sides (in the same dimension and meaning of 'sides', etc).

It can be the case for some people, but I think it is possible to not believe in something and hate the idea of it at the same time.

You can't hate something you don't think exists. You can hate stories about the concept of that non-existent thing. I don't hate Cinderella. She never existed. There's nothing to hate. I can hate the character in the story of Cinderella. You can say "Yeah, I mean that," but that's easy to assume because NOBODY believes Cinderella actually existed, so they take it in that context. I guess a non-theist could hate the character of God in the Bible -- but that's not a common theme. They may refer to the Old Testament of God being a d!ck at times of course, and "why the hell didn't God do that? what an uncaring pr!ck," but the main argument is IF the Bible's 100% flawless & true, then he WOULD BE a d!ck and not flawless, etc. Not an actual HATE of the character in the storybook in the Bible. More like hating fundamentalism or with some -- just religion in general.

There are atheist who use the bible as a means to strengthen their atheism. In some sort of a sense, it is an 'atheist bible'.

To strengthen their arguments against the Bible being inherently true. Yes, when you learn the Bible you can point out its many flaws that destroys the fundamentalist. The problem with fundamentalism is if you make someone Realize that it is truly flawed, their faith folds like a deck of cards and comes crashing down, since fundies ride on the "fact" that it's 100% true. The Bible doesn't strengthen their atheism -- showing the Bible for what it is strengthens their argument that it's not magically True -- but more importantly Refutes a Bible-believer's arguments.

It is just silly to me, with so little time in life you figure an atheist would go read a science book or something.

Whether one's an anti-theist, non-theist, mild theist, or a fundamentalist -- it's an interesting concept in society for entertainment. :)
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 107
Absolutely there is a God.
Posted: 2/14/2016 3:38:59 PM
#103


isn't Jealousy a Sin?


only when you covet other pple's sh.it


are you sure,because one time he was a burning bush and another time he was a talking donkey


this doesn't mean he denied who he was, it does show he was a shape-shifter in an illusory Universe he manipulates


but yet God is incapable of performing such a feat, isn't reality all just an illusion


even in an illusion or hologram, a square must have 4 sides to be a square; and since we are incorporated into that illusion (and not outside of it), it doesn't make a square anything other than 4 sided!


damn why can't I believe in unprovable things like God or Bigfoot like everyone else


Tell me how you believe that the whole Universe and everything in it is real, and please don't blurt out Anthropocentric foolish non-sense like: " since I am poof that I exist, then the Universe I'm in exists".
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 108
Absolutely there is a God.
Posted: 2/14/2016 3:53:19 PM
Why does the God of pure and unconditional Love, the Supreme Being of the Universe, threaten ETERNAL AGONY for any who do not praise his name.??
Huge ego?? Jealousy?? He is really THAT petty?...
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 109
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History
Absolutely there is a God.
Posted: 2/14/2016 4:23:37 PM

Tell me how you believe that the whole Universe and everything in it is real, and please don't blurt out Anthropocentric foolish non-sense like: " since I am poof that I exist, then the Universe I'm in exists".

Well, it's not too far from that argument. We define real in the sense relative to our interactions and what we do. So the burden of proof is on the one who says it's not real. What do you mean by "real" -- then you question can be adequately answered to your liking.

Say our existence/the universe is an advanced game of "The Sims", in a sense. And a 13 year old kid with acne is "god" letting this run and him messing with things now and again. This is still "real". "Real" is in terms of reference. "Did that Really happen?" It really happened in the TV Show -- it was real within that. It really happened in "real life" -- what we call this existence -- when I went to the store earlier today. Yep. To me, it IS close to "I think therefore I am". "I interact there for it also is." Sure, could be some mind-blowing virtual reality -- but at one point is something just virtual reality vs reality? Within the virtual reality, X that just exists in it is real -- but outside virtual reality, that X is not real outside of it. It's just in reference. Even if this whole universe is a virtual reality simulation, it's still AS real as things really happening within it.

Why does the God of pure and unconditional Love, the Supreme Being of the Universe, threaten ETERNAL AGONY for any who do not praise his name.??
Huge ego?? Jealousy?? He is really THAT petty?...

Well, it's just a by-product of Him spending too much time and getting frustrated on POF! :)
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 110
Absolutely there is a God.
Posted: 2/14/2016 4:29:51 PM

Why does the God of pure and unconditional Love, the Supreme Being of the Universe, threaten ETERNAL AGONY for any who do not praise his name.??
Huge ego?? Jealousy?? He is really THAT petty?...


So this is a question for Christianity, not for theist (people who believe in god). Also why do you refer to god as 'he', shouldn't it be 'the'?

Ultimately it is the idea that you have of god that leads you to have a belief or not; it seems non-theist and theist alike regard god as the one described to them by someone elses ideas
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 111
Absolutely there is a God.
Posted: 2/14/2016 4:47:18 PM

So the burden of proof is on the one who says it's not real.


do some reading on the "holographic paradigm" or principles, as reported on by physicists who study it. One notable guy is Leonard Suskind I think!

I put up some links in an earlier posting here, but there are way more.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 112
Absolutely there is a God.
Posted: 2/14/2016 4:54:48 PM
Christians don't have an answer as to why their loving God threatens ETERNAL AGONY and torture..best to ignore anything you cannot answer.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 113
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History
Absolutely there is a God.
Posted: 2/14/2016 5:56:30 PM

I don't believe in the bible...any of them. I don't buy the Jesus myth or the angry God of the Old Testament myth anyore than I buy into Greek or Roman mythological Gods. That being said, there is no way this blue sphere filled to the brim with so much beauty and so many life forms just spontaneously evolved out of nothing. I don't care what hawkings says about it in The Grand Design. There is no way our existence on earth, indeed the existence of matter itself, and the Higgs or God Paticle and the laws of physics just happened to develop to allow for our existence.

I can accept the idea of a multi-verse and our living in one of an infinite number of universes that happens to support our existance, but I don't accept my own existance or yours as just luck of the draw. There had to be an intelligent design behind all of this.

To think otherwise just makes no sense.


Wouldn't God need to evolve from something? You're back to square one.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 114
Absolutely there is a God.
Posted: 2/14/2016 8:02:13 PM

Posted By: norwegianguy456
It's a definition. We could call a "turkok" something with 4 equal sides, and a "square" something with back hair. The word is a human short-cut agreed upon by others,

definition debates springs up only when someone is trying to tilt the conversation into their favor


Posted By: norwegianguy456
But no, God cannot make something that has only 4 sides have 6 side

in this case God already has..... you guys keep limiting a square to the "2nd-dimension", but even if you draw a square or print a square on paper it will still have depth, whether the depth is minuscule or exist on a quantum level, the depth still exist and will add two more sides to the equation which is why a square that exist in the "3rd-Dimension" will always have 6 sides


Posted By: Yule_liquor
this doesn't mean he denied who he was, it does show he was a shape-shifter in an illusory Universe he manipulates

if God is disguising himself as a burning bush and a talking donkey and it's not Halloween then he's denying himself


Posted By: Yule_liquor
Tell me how you believe that the whole Universe and everything in it is real, and please don't blurt out Anthropocentric foolish non-sense like: " since I am poof that I exist, then the Universe I'm in exists".

the only absolute truth is the existence of yourself to yourself because everything else including God The Universe and a Leprechaun's pot of gold could be a delusion ..funches 3:16
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 115
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History
Absolutely there is a God.
Posted: 2/14/2016 9:11:23 PM

do some reading on the "holographic paradigm" or principles, as reported on by physicists who study it. One notable guy is Leonard Suskind I think!

I put up some links in an earlier posting here, but there are way more.

Actually, take a good look at what I wrote. It doesn't matter if reality is a hologram, it's still real. It's just Different than what we think it is, but still real within that different type of reality structure. Again, it could be a virtual reality program run by something else for it's own entertainment -- it's still real (within that virtual reality we call our universe). So I ask you -- what are you defining Real as?

definition debates springs up only when someone is trying to tilt the conversation into their favor

I'm not making it one, and I disagree with the 2nd part, but that's moot. I'm saying that a word is a short-cut to it's definition. So to simplify this insight we're talking about, get rid of the word to avoid confusion and get right to the definition when making a logical argument. Can something be only 4 sides of equal length -- yet still have 6 sides while it only has 4 sides? No. It's not about an "ability" of any god or being to do so -- it's a conflict of what something can be.

in this case God already has..... you guys keep limiting a square to the "2nd-dimension", but even if you draw a square or print a square on paper it will still have depth, whether the depth is minuscule or exist on a quantum level, the depth still exist and will add two more sides to the equation which is why a square that exist in the "3rd-Dimension" will always have 6 sides

What you're saying is that when you draw (or print) a square with 4 sides, you're actually drawing something with 6 sides. If that is true, you're not really drawing a true square -- it just looks like one to the naked eye. Again, something that can only have 4 sides (like a square or rectangle) can't have 6 sides when it still exists as having Only 4 sides.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 116
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Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/15/2016 1:08:16 AM
Mathematical abstractions such as squares and tesseracts are a result of deductive logic - which is a tool we use to help us get to grips with the patterns we observe in reality. Do logic and mathematics exist in the real world? Not really - they are conceptual tools we made, so they only 'exist' as signals in our neural networks. So what you're really saying is: "Can something that we made up (gods) make or unmake something else that we made up (logic)? I know, let's use logic to argue about it until the gods show up to sort it out!"

See? This ^^^ is why we should talk about gravity waves instead.

Gravity waves exist. Gravity waves open up a whole new regime for understanding the cosmos outside the prison of the electromagnetic spectrum. After the success of LIGO I hope that more space-based interferometers like eLISA and DECIGO are just around the corner, don't you?

"Gravitational wave observations will enable studies of: the formation and growth of massive black holes and their co-evolving host galaxies; structure formation; stellar populations and dynamics in galactic nuclei; compact stars; the structure of our Galaxy; General Relativity in extreme conditions; cosmology; and searches for new physics."

- Blurb from the defunded LISA project page.
 flman2015
Joined: 10/3/2015
Msg: 117
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/15/2016 4:11:18 AM



Do logic and mathematics exist in the real world? Not really


But that isn't what really matters. Logic and Mathematics are simply languages that (hopefully) allows humans to describe properties of the real world. Does an Ellipse exist in the real world ? yes, the orbits of most planets are elliptical. Does the equation that describes that Ellipse exist ? the equation may be considered as only existing in the human mind but, it describes something that does exist. In this case and, most others, the mathematical or logical abstraction is simply a reflection of an existing object.

In the majority of cases, logic and mathematics are used to describe the real world. However, it is possible (and it has been done quite often) to express worthless bullsh*t with logic and/or mathematics. Just because something is mathematically or logically true does not imply it isn't a flaming pile of worthless nonsense (but it will be self consistent).

Back to the absolutely god exists (LOL)

The "existence" of god is predicated on the existence of a language to describe it. Obviously, logic, coherency and consistency must go out the window to concoct such nonsensical concept. (covered by the phrase, "god works in mysterious ways", a phrase that should be considered one of the greatest religious intellectual achievements)

believers are hilarious.

Let's redefine omnipotence as being able to drink beer and eat peanuts. he can't create something he cannot lift but, he can create the whole effing universe out of nothing. religions, quite the landscape of intellectual wonders. I guess god went through some omnipotence-downsizing, he better be careful or he is going to be outsourced to India.







 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 118
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History
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/15/2016 5:50:50 AM

Does an Ellipse exist in the real world ? yes, the orbits of most planets are elliptical.

So-called elliptical orbits are part of physical reality, which is not and never will be perfectly describable. Reality is stochastic in many ways. Orbits decay, dust and gas bleed from atmosphere, larger collisions occur. Stellar winds and coronal mass ejections blast on and off randomly. Solar systems move about the galactic centre, and galaxies move relative to other galaxies. Gravity has infinite range, meaning nothing ever experiences exactly the same gravitational vectors from one moment to the next. Gravity waves propagate across the universe from all directions. Dark matter is spinning us around in the background. If you measure with enough precision, you will find constant deviation of real orbits from your ellipse approximation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osculating_orbit

Just because something is mathematically or logically true does not imply it isn't a flaming pile of worthless nonsense (but it will be self consistent).

Of course, such approximations are the only way we can get anything done in the real world. If 2+2=4, then progress.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 119
view profile
History
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/15/2016 8:52:30 AM

Do logic and mathematics exist in the real world? Not really - they are conceptual tools we made, so they only 'exist' as signals in our neural networks.

Math is a language -- logic isn't Quite the same. Math is a language used as a tool (like English) to describe things, get ideas across, and to also deduce things to come to new verified conclusions, etc. -- which is logical. Something being logical or illogical exists just as much as a valid or invalid proposal exists. It's not a tangible "thing", but does that mean it doesn't exist? Depends in what Context you're saying something exists or not.

Gravity waves exist.

Yes, and verifying they exist requires this non-existent "logic". ;)

The "existence" of god is predicated on the existence of a language to describe it.

The existence of a god as an idea that gets passed along a tribe or society is predicated on some sort of basic language, yeah. But the idea of a god in a very basic form wouldn't need an adopted language. One can think to themselves, to come up with this not-so-original idea, who was born & living like Tarzan in the jungle -- that there's some god up in the sky.

Obviously, logic, coherency and consistency must go out the window to concoct such nonsensical concept.

Like classic religious followers, we don't want to mix God (or Gods) with the religious stories surrounding them as being the same thing. The basic basic concept of a god existing -- and again, a god doesn't have to be ALL knowing, ALL powerful, ALL loving, and flawless with a 12" penis -- nor does a god have to follow some human storybook. I don't think the concept of a god(s) existing is nonsensical. It's once you start describing said god(s) in what it can and can't do, and/or how it exists, etc -- starting to write a storybook or handbook about it -- that's when that stuff starts going out the window.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 120
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/15/2016 9:03:53 AM

Posted By: norwegianguy456
Again, something that can only have 4 sides (like a square or rectangle) can't have 6 sides when it still exists as having Only 4 sides.

I do it all the time using a 3D program but yet you claim that God is incapable of performing such a feat ..so does that makes me God ...BEHOLD for I have a comet ..or is it a cometh ...

and that is what happen when you guys resort to these definition debates, you take a definition that favors your position ,set the definition in stone, develop definition tunnel vision and take the debate way off the target

the debate went from God creating something that he can't lift pertaining to omnipotence and descended into how many sides a square has and the gravitational "going-ons" in The Universe

it's as if you guys are Believers dressed in Atheist clothing commanded by the Lord All Mighty to create subterfuge to protect God's Omnipotence or lack of it
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 121
view profile
History
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/15/2016 12:35:05 PM

and that is what happen when you guys resort to these definition debates

It's people who play word games who are playing the "definition debates". I'm not playing that. Just being logical.

I do it all the time using a 3D program

No, you don't. You're not making something having ONLY 4 sides also ONLY have 6 sides, both in the same dimension. It has nothing to do with Ability. One can change a square into a six sided shape, sure. But it's no longer a square. Someone can make something 3D and turn a square into a cube -- it's no longer a square.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 122
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/15/2016 3:08:47 PM

Posted By: norwegianguy456
Someone can make something 3D and turn a square into a cube -- it's no longer a square.

a Square by only other name is still the same ......a cube is simply a "square" with 6 sides .. basic geometry....you fell right into that one

so if you wish to argue the point further, then place it on record and first admit that it's impossible for a square to have depth even on a quantum level ...if you're not willing to admit to that ..then problem solved

and then we can get back to the eternally unanswered and sidetracked question ..."Can god create a rock he can't lift"
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 123
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/15/2016 5:04:35 PM

"Can god create a rock he can't lift"



Can an omnipotent being do something that would make it non-omnipotent? Could an 'omnipotent' being, both be omnipotent and non-omnipotent at the same time? If this were the case then it should just be a different word.

Square definition: a plane figure with four equal straight sides and four right angles.
A plane can only be two-dimensional, not 3d+. A cube is a six sided figure with the sides as squares

A circle could be defined as a plane figure with infinitely many sides, to say zero could be an empty graph

my desktop background:
http://s13.postimg.org/ym0norxxj/Untitled.png
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 124
Absolutely there is a God.
Posted: 2/15/2016 5:42:35 PM
#116


it could be a virtual reality program run by something else for it's own entertainment -- it's still real


Its real because you are inherent in it, thus to you (or us) its "real", but what is truly real is that which underpins it ( ie: that which determines the value of 'dimensionless fundamental physical constants'), only because without something like a "virtually reality program" running, none of what you deem to be real in the here and now wouldn't exist as we know and see it.

....................

#115


the only absolute truth is the existence of yourself to yourself ...


You just don't get it!
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 125
Absolutely there is a God.
Posted: 2/15/2016 6:20:13 PM
problems occur due to using the same word with different definition/meaning. It would perhaps be more productive to stop debating what a word should mean and instead give a new word to each separate meaning.

America's #1 Mayonnaise is made with real*, simple ingredients: eggs, oil and vinegar.
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