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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Absolutely there is a God.      Home login  
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 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 151
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.Page 7 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)

Posted By: Aprilikesrosasblancas
ahh great.!!
And now that you are all at peace and happy, I am going to pray to give thanks to God...:-):-)

while you're at it can you ask The Lord Almighty for the winning lottery numbers and e-mail them to me and we can split the winnings,

you can give your half to the church and I will squander my half to prove the validity of "1 Timothy 6:10 " by engaging in debauchery and heathenism


Posted By: kidreason29
Here is a paradox for you: Don't take me too literally.

that's an easy one but not a paradox...since the only time I ever take you too literally is when you post
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 152
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Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/18/2016 6:12:28 PM
All of this talk about nothing being truly two-dimensional nor a plane is interesting considering that three-dimensionality in reality is an illusion after all according to some scientific schools of thought.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 153
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/19/2016 8:08:33 AM

All of this talk about nothing being truly two-dimensional nor a plane is interesting considering that three-dimensionality in reality is an illusion after all according to some scientific schools of thought.


that depends, there are some 'schools of thought' that say if you shrink down enough eventually you will hit 2 or 1 dimensions. Being inherently 3d spatially (not including time) it would be impossible to see anything that is 2d (it would appear invisible to us), also we can't see anything 4d (spatially) completely, the 'shadow' will appear to us as 3d not as a 'plane' as other 3d objects. I'm no geometer but I'm sure I'm correct
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 154
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/19/2016 4:54:56 PM

only if it believes that it's omnipotent ...because which came first ...God or knowledge?


I again, can't help but ask you to define knowledge. As I could say for something to be knowledge it would require an 'I', 'conscious thing' to 'know' that something.

So it could be said 'consciousness' was first before 'knowledge'.
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 155
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Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/22/2016 3:07:33 AM
I repeat, Funchest - the surface of a piece of paper is a surface, a 2-D surface, but it is not a PLANE. It's not a FLAT surface. That's why it can's completely vanish when viewed from an edge; all the points on the surface (the surface where paper stops and air starts) are not lined up in one plane.
ED BEAR
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 156
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Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/22/2016 6:36:38 AM

All of this talk about nothing being truly two-dimensional nor a plane is interesting considering that three-dimensionality in reality is an illusion after all according to some scientific schools of thought.

I agree. It leads to an interesting discussion about the construct of the universe on the atomic/sub-atomic scale, in how such quantum things can be in more than one place at one time in a sense, among other interesting things. But it takes away from the original sound bite about a God's theoretical "ability". However one wants to define 'sides' is moot. If something has 4 sides and ONLY 4 sides, could anything, including a God make it ALSO have 6 sides and *only* 6 sides? No. But that's not a question of ability. It'd be like asking "Could God divide a number by zero and get a whole number?" No. But, again, that's not a question of ability. Hence, it's a bad argument to question the existence of an all-powerful God.

Questions like those should bring up another question: Why would God need to be all-powerful, let alone all-loving at the same time? Many believe that that would Have to be in the definition of a god, conditioned by Western belief systems (as opposed to others that are polytheistic). There's plenty of evidence as a by-product of what unfolds in the world that there isn't an all-loving father-like-figure God overseeing and placing a hand in the world who's All-Loving.
 Aprilikesrosasblancas
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 157
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/22/2016 8:36:19 AM

while you're at it can you ask The Lord Almighty for the winning lottery numbers and e-mail them to me and we can split the winnings,


I am sorry but I can't do that., It's not fair to give you free money.!
What about the other people? they are God's children too.:-)
God has no preference, everyone is equal.!!
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 158
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/23/2016 8:27:00 AM

Posted By: drinkthesunwithmyface
All of this talk about nothing being truly two-dimensional nor a plane is interesting considering that three-dimensionality in reality is an illusion after all according to some scientific schools of thought.

all reality is supposedly an illusion due to it's true form being that of atoms which are rearranged and clumped together to create another illusion called Matter


Posted By: OhHiDoggy
Come on guys. Y'all are delaying the inevitable.
Eventually humanity will yield to the belief in a glorious higher power!

A.I. shall become "I Am" .....funches 3:16


Posted By: kidreason29
I again, can't help but ask you to define knowledge.

another definition debate....seriously? ...wouldn't knowledge in it's simplicity be a bit or a byte of memory/imprint


Posted By: kidreason29
So it could be said 'consciousness' was first before 'knowledge'.

how can consciousness be achieved without the knowledge to do so


I repeat, Funchest - the surface of a piece of paper is a surface, a 2-D surface, but it is not a PLANE. It's not a FLAT surface. That's why it can's completely vanish when viewed from an edge; all the points on the surface (the surface where paper stops and air starts) are not lined up in one plane.
ED BEAR

either plane or flat an object be ..disappear sideways it would ...if it was truly 2-D ...funches 3:16

the definition of a 2-D square was place in the dictionary and in the math books as such to keep from having to explain Quantum physics to those that are already confused or scared off by Math.... ..but the definition used is debatable ..that's why the dictionary should not be treated like a Bible as if every definition is set in Stone


Posted by: norwegianguy456
If something has 4 sides and ONLY 4 sides, could anything, including a God make it ALSO have 6 sides and *only* 6 sides? No.

sorry but it can...."Kidreason" explained it perfectly in "post 139" ...


Posted By: Aprilikesrosasblancas
I am sorry but I can't do that., It's not fair to give you free money.!

you're only giving me the numbers, I have to pay money for the ticket on the assumption that you're not delusional, which means I'm taking a big gamble


Posted By: Aprilikesrosasblancas
What about the other people? they are God's children too.:-)

yep that's a good question...why is God allowing some of his children to starve


Posted By: Aprilikesrosasblancas
God has no preference, everyone is equal.!!

I'm pretty sure those that are starving in the world would agree

so have I convinced you to now send me the winning lottery numbers my little bible thumper
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 159
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/23/2016 9:36:31 AM
according to April, people only starve because they are bad and lazy..she's stated that before.

also the God of unconditional love is so jealous that if anyone does not proclaim belief in him, he sends them to hell..to burn in undescribable agony..FOREVER..FOR ETERNITY.

seems slightly 'harsh' for the loving god.

also that the supreme being of the Universe harbors a petty 'human' emotion like 'jealousy'

he needs confirmation from beings, humans, so insignificant and so much 'lower' than him??

needs to be validated by lowly humans?
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 160
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Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/23/2016 7:27:10 PM
(norwegianguy456)

Yes, by the way, that's an interesting point of contention - Many people's proof of god is that there is beauty, and good things. If that were a good argument for god's existence, then one could just as easily point to what has no beauty, and to all of the bad things. Is the existence of bad things or the lack of beauty somewhere proof that there isn't a god...or that god is not intrinsically good but instead bad in some way?
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 161
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Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/23/2016 9:54:43 PM

Many people's proof of god is that there is beauty, and good things.

Which common sense dictates, god or no god, is a really bad "proof" of course. :)

Is the existence of bad things or the lack of beauty somewhere proof that there isn't a god...or that god is not intrinsically good but instead bad in some way?

It depends on how one defines said God. As Dawkins more or less says -- I believe in just 1 less god than you do, and I disbelieve in just 1 more god than you do. Once one starts describing said God's stipulations/requirements, then it's possible to disprove That one. So if said God is all-loving + intervening, that's one example. But we're built where popularity = evidence, notably of things we hold dear to our upbringing & identity (and ego indirectly)... so many people who believe in a God that's all-loving + intervening really make fools of themselves, on an intellectual basis -- but not on a popularity contest at all.

The existence of Unnecessarily bad things occurring (like cancer to a 4 year old boy) -- yes, defeats the existence of an all-loving God who can intervene. Unless you change the definition of 'love'. That said, when one gets into philisophical debates with a strong traditional Xian, their defense can make 'love' start sounding as askew as 'love' in a porn VS a romantic movie.
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 162
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Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/23/2016 10:43:51 PM
Funchest: A SQUARE is a PLANE figure. It is defined as existing in a plane. The surface of a piece of paper is not a plane figure; it's not a square, except in everyday approximation. (Or a rectangle, round coaster, or Green Bay Cheesehead hat.)

To amplify on Norwegian Guy said, nothing in the real world is a square - any more than a wire is a line or a dot is a point. A square - a perfect square - does exist, but as a conceptual object. One can easily visualize the set of points in a square - if one has a "flat" orthogonal 3-space. Our everyday 3-space is, if Einstein & co. are correct, not flat; it is distorted by gravity and - yes, here it comes - gravity waves. (See, I'm not off-topic!)

There are all manner of non-plane surfaces, such as spheres, saddles and pseudospheres, that are truly two-dimensional but not flat. Torii, too, for that matter, cylinders, prisms, polyhedrons, whatever. There are no "squares" on a non-plane surface.

A space (such as a zero-dimensional point, a 1-dimensional line, a two-dimensional surface, or a 3-dimensional 3-D space) is classified by how many dimensions must be supplied to specify any arbitrary point in that space.

One needs so dimensions to specify a point in a point. There is only one point.

One needs two non-parallel dimensions (X and Y, for example, or direction and distance from an origin) to specify any point in 2-space.

One needs three non-parallel dimensions to specify any point in 3-space. And so on for 4-dimensional space-time, or any higher-dimensional space, such as the proper fuel/air mix in an engine fuel-injection map depending on 4 or more input parameters. (Say, throttle setting, air temperature, fuel temperature, engine temperature, atmospheric pressure, turbo pressure, transmission gear, exhaust gas oxygen content, and so on...)

Where fractals come into it is that some consider a fractal - which fills a specific fraction of a plane or 3-space - can specify much of a higher dimension. A particular curve can be treated as having a dimensionality of, say, 1.2.

For example, it takes two dimensions to specify any point in a plane - but a fractal that is known to fill 1/3 of the plane can specify all of the points along it (and that's 1/3 of the total number of points in a place) with only one dimension plus the information contained in the fractal's configuration. We can't get to any point in a city by following only bus routes, but a significant proportion of those points CAN be reached, and we can walk or taxi to the remaining points relatively easily.

ED BEAR
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 163
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/24/2016 5:08:10 AM

Posted By: ed bear
To amplify on Norwegian Guy said, nothing in the real world is a square - any more than a wire is a line or a dot is a point. A square - a perfect square - does exist, but as a conceptual object.

since everyone is claiming that reality is an illusion is why the discussion wasn't about what a perfect square, plane or 2-D surface is...it's those pesty definition debates what caused the discussion to descend into that

the discussion was actually about whether or not God could create a four sided square that was also a six sided square that could exist in the same dimension without destroying or altering the four sided square

and I stated ...that such a square already exist as a cube which is a square with six sides

"kidreason" explained the concept perfectly in post "139" but if you disagree with it...explain why
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 164
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Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/24/2016 6:59:55 AM

To amplify on Norwegian Guy said, nothing in the real world is a square - any more than a wire is a line or a dot is a point. A square - a perfect square - does exist, but as a conceptual object. One can easily visualize the set of points in a square - if one has a "flat" orthogonal 3-space.

Yes, one can make the legit argument there isn't a true 2D plane existing -- but my argument is that's moot. Fine for another discussion about the universe's construct and how things interact on the quantum level... but about as relevant to the my question as the "Who pays?" thread on dates where people are talking about jail. :)

"Can you/God make something with *only* 4 sides ALSO have *only* 6 sides while still *only* having 4 sides?" -- the definition of sides being real-world definition of sides to not spawn off into another discussion. Look at the word *ONLY*.

I'll make it simpler, same concept, but to avoid spawning off on the unrelated questions: "Can you/God make a table with *only* 4 legs, but ALSO have *only* 6 legs, while still *only* having 4 legs?" No. But again, it has nothing to do with ability or lack thereof.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 165
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Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/24/2016 7:43:14 AM
There is no such thing as a perfect square - something is a square or it isn't. That is because a square is a precisely defined concept, not a thing.

Could the gods demonstrate omnipotence by revealing a hidden dimension within the existing concept of a square? No, because the concept of a square has no hidden dimension by definition. Only the concept of a square with a hidden dimension can be the concept of a square with a hidden dimension.

Can the gods demonstrate omnipotence by changing the concept of a square into the concept of a square with a hidden dimension? No, because the logical extension of that change being made to the square is that a line may equally be said to describe a square or 'a line with 4 sides' once the extra dimension is added. Adding dimensions gets them exactly no where in their quest to alter concepts.

Maybe gods could destroy all life in the universe so there are no concepts afterwards... but wait, don't gods understand the concept of the square? Clearly we require the gods to destroy the universe and commit mass suicide in order to demonstrate their omnipotence by altering the concept of the square. But then no-one is around to witness the demonstration, so omnipotence still wouldn't be demonstrated. Can gods even kill themselves anyway?

Either that or they need to destroy logic. If logic is destroyed, then colourless green ideas sleep furiously.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 166
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/24/2016 8:36:29 AM

Posted By: norwegianguy456
]I'll make it simpler, same concept, but to avoid spawning off on the unrelated questions: "Can you/God make a table with *only* 4 legs, but ALSO have *only* 6 legs, while still *only* having 4 legs?

nope it's not the same concept....because you went from using a 2-D square to using a 3--D object like a table ...but anyway you made the problem very easy to solve since I can now use "Depth"

you can have a 4 leg table that has two retractable legs that are hidden or looks like part of the table....that way what appears to be only a 4 legged table would actually be both a 6 legged table and a 4 legged table

if you're trying to prove something that God can't do ..you have to move beyond presenting illusions and go beyond the laws of physics

which is why the original question was...can God create a Rock he can't lift
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 167
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History
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/24/2016 8:42:53 AM

you can have a 4 leg table that has two retractable legs that are hidden or looks like part of the table....that way what appears to be only a 4 legged table would actually be both a 6 legged table and a 4 legged table

Something cannot have ONLY 4 legs and ONLY have 6 legs at the same time. Read the word ONLY. I'm not talking about something that could be built to have both. Read.
 8inscrew
Joined: 11/17/2014
Msg: 168
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/24/2016 11:42:59 AM
You are the rock funchef.... "he" cannot prove "himself" to you.
You refuse to be lifted...
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 169
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/24/2016 9:05:44 PM

which is why the original question was...can God create a Rock he can't lift


the original question actually was: if A = A, and A ~=B can god make A = B? it would have to be A ~= B and A = B at the same time (contradiction). This could work as an illusion.

which is why I then brought up quantum logic, where a being 'all capable' would also be 'capable of not being capable', basically something that is and isn't something at the same time( a zero and a 1 at the same time), which happens in quantum logic.

which is why 'god' could create a rock he can't lift because it is defined(in quantum logic) in his capability to be 'capable of not being capable'.

'god' would be omnipotent and non-omnipotent at the same time, god could be itself and not itself at the sametime, etc
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 170
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/26/2016 8:34:21 AM

Posted By: norwegianguy456
I'm not talking about something that could be built to have both.

the challenge was could God create "one" to have both and exist in the same dimension without destroying the other


Posted By: norwegianguy456
Something cannot have ONLY 4 legs and ONLY have 6 legs at the same time

a woman pregnant with twins could ....

give it up "norwegianguy".... no matter what you come up with... there's a simple solution of illusion


Posted By 8inscrew
You are the rock funchef.... "he" cannot prove "himself" to you. You refuse to be lifted...

I'm not to sure about that ...last Wednesday during a blizzard that hit most of the mid-eastern United States I was shoveling snow in winds blowing 50 miles per hours and God was doing a damn good job lifting my apse up


Posted By: kidreason29
the original question actually was: if A = A, and A ~=B can god make A = B? it would have to be A ~= B and A = B at the same time (contradiction). This could work as an illusion.

if you insert A~into B ....then it would appear that A=B .....but is actually A=B+A~ ..an illusion


Posted By: kidreason29
'god' would be omnipotent and non-omnipotent at the same time,

but once he decides to create, God at that point in time ceases to be omnipotent

if God create that which is more powerful then himself the "that" becomes God thus making God non-omnipotent
if God create something equal to himself they have to share power thus making God non-omnipotent
if God create something less powerful than itself becomes a sign of "need"...thus making God non-omnipotent

God can remain omnipotent as long as he doesn't create
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 171
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/26/2016 11:15:10 AM

if you insert A~into B ....then it would appear that A=B .....but is actually A=B+A~ ..an illusion
I don't understand


God can remain omnipotent as long as he doesn't create


I think you mean 'perfect', but I'm still with god being Omni and not Omni at the sametime
 IgottaName
Joined: 3/29/2014
Msg: 172
Absolutely there is a God....not.
Posted: 2/27/2016 6:32:16 AM
Yup. It makes no sense. Accept it. Now go out and bring sense to it.
I also like the idea of a multiverse and quantum realities and such. It's nice to think that somewhere there is a perfect version of me living the perfect life in the perfect place, but, as my mom pointed out, what if this is my best life? Well, **** it. The truth is none of that matters. I am here and it is now. I have this one shot at life and that's it. Gotta make the best of it I can.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 173
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History
Absolutely there is a God....not.
Posted: 2/27/2016 10:39:36 AM

a woman pregnant with twins could ....

Nope. A pregnant woman with twins is not something with 4 legs and only 4 legs, while also having 6 legs and only six legs. The word 'only' means that and nothing else -- there can be no 'also'.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 174
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/27/2016 1:35:30 PM

Posted By: kidreason29
I think you mean 'perfect', but I'm still with god being Omni and not Omni at the sametime

I guess that's depends on if someone can be pregnant but yet not pregnant at the same time


.Posted By: norwegianguy456
A pregnant woman with twins is not something with 4 legs and only 4 legs

a set of healthy twins inside a woman would only have 4 legs and 4 legs only


Posted By: norwegianguy456
while also having 6 legs and only six legs.

the twins together with the woman would have 6 legs and only 6 legs

you keep trying to turn reality into absolutes when it's all just a matter of perspective and illusion


Posted By: norwegianguy456
"Can you/God make a table with *only* 4 legs, but ALSO have *only* 6 legs, while still *only* having 4 legs?"

God have more important things to do like answering the prayers of "Aprilikesrosasblancas" for the winning lottery numbers to send to me so God probably hire Jesus the Carpenter to built the Table for him ...

Jesus most likely would reinforce two of the 4 table legs by hollowing them out and placing a metal leg within the two and the table would appear to have 4 legs but actually have 6 legs and vise versa
 Aprilovesrosasblancas
Joined: 2/24/2016
Msg: 175
Absolutely there is a Gravity Wave.
Posted: 2/27/2016 1:44:18 PM

God have more important things to do like answering the prayers of "Aprilikesrosasblancas" for the winning lottery numbers to send to me so God probably hire Jesus the Carpenter to built the Table for him ...


LOL.!!
You are a clown funchesf....lol
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