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 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 76
Great Job , isrealPage 4 of 82    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)

Of course Homo sapiens is one species. Of course you cannot look at the DNA of an individual or an MRI scan and notice any difference between the races.


Actually, you can make very good 'guesses' (aka professional opinions) on some MRIs - particularly of skulls. As for the DNA, I'm sure that's just around the temporal corner.


But as my source evidence is beyond any doubt, there are anthropologic differences between the races that go beyond skin color.


Even if your source evidence links to another anthropologist who disagrees with his stand?
That's so we can actually have sufficient information as to why one person prefers to say 'race exists' and another, equally qualified person says 'race doesn't exist'.

Your source evidence is NOT beyond any doubt. As he mentions, this is his explanation of why he has formed this opinion in the performance of his employment. Furthermore, any source for information is always suspect; that's why we have brains averaging 1350 cm with lots of crenulations.
 marilyncollet
Joined: 2/5/2016
Msg: 77
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/16/2016 7:20:44 PM
Race exists. There are physical and biological attributes much more common in some types of people vs other groups. Leftist nutcases like to assert opinions as fact to support their politically correct viewpoints of the world. Regardless, different groups the world over have evolved somewhat differently than other groups. We are all genetically close enough of course that differences between members of the same race may exceed differences between the races. But there is no ignoring the anthropologic differences that have developed over time in different regions of the world.
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 78
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/16/2016 7:31:58 PM
The problem being we're all no longer in our own little region of the world... the walls got knocked down.
I think Iceland is one of the few countries with very little diversity since their 'wall' of being an island in the middle of a very cold ocean still functions.
 marilyncollet
Joined: 2/5/2016
Msg: 79
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/16/2016 7:37:52 PM
True, as as we mix and intermingle, the races will tend to evolve towards the mean. That has been happening in the US since slaves were first introduced into the country, and whites from Europe met up with indians. Obama is as white as he is black. And we all have some DNA contributed from Neanderthals.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 80
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/16/2016 9:18:53 PM

marilyncollet


Is Jewish a race?
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 81
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 3:28:00 AM

Your opinions on race are nothing new and date back to the 1950s, you give no new perspective no new scientific basis for your opinions, you merely plagiarize what has been said many times before.

There is no "plagiarism", and the fact that you've been unable to provide examples, as requested, proves that.

There have been many new scientific discoveries regarding "race" during the lat 65 years, so I don't know why you seem so obsessed with the 1950s.
Here's what the American Anthropological Association had to say on the subject, as far back as 1998

In the United States both scholars and the general public have been conditioned to viewing human races as natural and separate divisions within the human species based on visible physical differences. With the vast expansion of scientific knowledge in this century, however, it has become clear that human populations are not unambiguous, clearly demarcated, biologically distinct groups. Evidence from the analysis of genetics (e.g., DNA) indicates that most physical variation, about 94%, lies within so-called racial groups. Conventional geographic "racial" groupings differ from one another only in about 6% of their genes. This means that there is greater variation within "racial" groups than between them. In neighboring populations there is much overlapping of genes and their phenotypic (physical) expressions. Throughout history whenever different groups have come into contact, they have interbred. The continued sharing of genetic materials has maintained all of humankind as a single species.

Read more at:
http://www.americananthro.org/ConnectWithAAA/Content.aspx?ItemNumber=2583

I suppose they are all "left thinking nut cases" too..?

I'm well aware that there are disagreements, but contrary to the claims of chap in the source you provided, it was the overwhelming consensus among experts in this field, which led to the AAA's published "Statement on Race".

Here's another famous paper, from 2006, and yes, I'm aware that there are some who refer to it as "Lewontin's" Fallacy", but they are now in a tiny minority.
(Just as those who dispute AGW are, within those expert fields)
There will always be "nut cases", as your posts adequately demonstrate.

The every-day socially defined geographical races do identify groups of populations that are somewhat more closely similar to each other genetically. Most important from the standpoint of the biological meaning of these racial categories, however, most human genetic variation does not show such "race" clustering. For the vast majority of human genetic variations, classical racial categories as defined by a combination of geography, skin color, nose and hair shape, an occasional blood type or selected microsatellites make no useful prediction of genetic differences. This failure of the clustering of local populations into biologically meaningful "races" based on a few clear genetic differences is not confined to the human species. Zoologists long ago gave up the category of "race" for dividing up groups of animal populations within a species, because so many of these races turned out to be based on only one or two genes so that two animals born in the same litter could belong to different "races."

http://raceandgenomics.ssrc.org/Lewontin/



With regard to Israel, so you read a book or two and now you know the facts? Don't make me laugh. It is obvious to me that you know very, very little.

I know more than I did, and tomorrow, hopefully, I will know more still.
For anyone interested in finding out more on the subject, there's an excellent talk on the subject, by Miko Peled, the son of one of Israel's founder zionist generals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4ZfnpN4Dfc

It's about half an hour long, and well worth watching, IMO.
I think he knows more about it, than you, or I, ever will.


Miko Peled
Born and raised in Jerusalem in 1961, Peled grew up in a prominent Zionist family; his grandfather, Avraham Katsnelson, signed Israel’s Declaration of Independence.[2] His father, Mattityahu Peled, fought in the 1948 war, and served as a general in the war of 1967; later, after the Israeli cabinet ignored his investigation of a 1967 alleged Israeli war crime, he became a peace activist and leading proponent of an Israeli dialogue with the PLO. He condemned the Israeli military for seizing the West Bank, Gaza, Sinai and the Golan Heights, calling the war a "cynical campaign of territorial expansion".[3] He was marginalized and shunned for his activism, and call for a two-state solution. Palestinian activist Susan Abulhawa has described Peled's father, who died in 1995, as "a man that many of us Palestinians could not figure out whether to love or hate" and whom "many notable Palestinians" nicknamed "Abu Salam" (Father of Peace).[4]

Miko Peled followed his father’s footsteps at first, joining Israel’s Special Forces after high school and earning the red beret, but he soon grew to regret his decision. He surrendered his status as soon as he earned it, becoming a medic, and finally, disgusted by the 1982 Lebanon invasion, he buried his service pin in the dirt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miko_Peled

His book's called "The General's Son".

I don't expect people to simply believe what I say, they should do their own research, and come to their own conclusions.
Israel needs to start being honest about the past.
Just as Britain has had to do, about it's shameful colonial history.
We can't change history, but we can change the future.
JMO
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 82
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 3:38:00 AM
Britain "has become honest about the past" ???

Well whoop-de -too..how noble!!

And still has a royal family living on the spoils stolen and plundered from the millions of people they enslaved and murdered..

Just like every other royal family..parasites ..but I guess it makes it all even and forgiven, being "honest" ?
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 83
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 4:07:35 AM
"Race" has all sorts of implications, based in reality- social and medical.

Even where there is race mixing.

People studying or applying medicine note the race of the person when making an assessment. They still teach this in medical training as well as in training for respiratory therapists, nurses, physical THERAPISTS, ETC.

Then there is EVERY DAY REALITY.

EXAMPLE? The taxi test. While Ronda Rousey, Rashida Jones, Jennifer Beals, Gabrielle Reese, Carol Channing amd Troian Belsario could easily get a taxi, Lennie Kravitz, Drake and someone like Ben Harper and Boris Kodjo may have problems. Yet they all have African ancestry,

Does the "race is s social construct" PCness negate their experiences?

That is reality.

Yes, we are all of the same species.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 84
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 4:17:51 AM
Of course to be PC, police forces should not mention "race" of wanted suspects, since race does not exist, we are told.

Just try to describe a suspect based on height, weight, nose size? Is that allowed? Or too un -PC?

The FBI's Ten Most Wanted list and all other suspect lists or descriptions must omit any reference to "race" or skin tone..perhaps omit photos, as they might lead to "racist" ideas..or thoughts..

I wonder why all these non-racist people keep careful stats on just about everything..segregated by "race"- a false construct..voting patterns, college admissions, % of politicians.

When there is uproar about a " white" cop shooting a " black" suspect.. How is that possible since "race" does not exist..?

How to know which people are on which side in a "race riot" ??..
 marilyncollet
Joined: 2/5/2016
Msg: 85
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 4:43:47 AM
Just glancing at what this fool wrote..he condemns the military for seizing the Golan Heights? Really? Israel seized the high ground from its mortal enemies swearing for its imminent destruction, and you think this guy's opinion is worth more than a bucket of warm urine? Don't make me laugh....again.
 marilyncollet
Joined: 2/5/2016
Msg: 86
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 4:58:08 AM
Some say yes Dee.. Some say no. Jews tend to have distinct differences....suffer from Taysachs disease, brac 2 genetic defects responsible for deadly breast cancers more than others, and have on average the higest mean iqs in the world...higher than asians. Is it culture at play or something else. You tell me? Blacks have their own diseases, like sickle cell. People will always disagree over what this all means...but the facts speak for themselves. And by the way, I personally believe that black people on average are superior to Caucasians when it comes to raw power, strenth and speed. I think athletic competitions bear this out.
 00Spy
Joined: 4/13/2013
Msg: 87
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 6:09:40 AM

Just glancing at what this fool wrote..he condemns the military for seizing the Golan Heights? Really? Israel seized the high ground from its mortal enemies swearing for its imminent destruction, and you think this guy's opinion is worth more than a bucket of warm urine? Don't make me laugh....again.

Self- defence...Thats a good argument.



Some say yes Dee.. Some say no. Jews tend to have distinct differences....suffer from Taysachs disease, brac 2 genetic defects responsible for deadly breast cancers more than others, and have on average the higest mean iqs in the world...higher than asians. Is it culture at play or something else. You tell me? Blacks have their own diseases, like sickle cell. People will always disagree over what this all means...but the facts speak for themselves. And by the way, I personally believe that black people on average are superior to Caucasians when it comes to raw power, strenth and speed. I think athletic competitions bear this out.


I was with you until... athletics... just ask Jimmy the Greek about that one.

But if there are no races does that mean an end to Affirmative Action for some?
 marilyncollet
Joined: 2/5/2016
Msg: 88
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 6:21:50 AM
Almost all of israels actions relative to its neighbors are for self defense aND for self preservation of the Jewish state.. Of course it can be argued whether Israel's actions are disproportionate at times. It cannot be argued however that they are not entitled to self defense. And yet the leftist nutcases on this board like Mungo Joe and Cottter will never concede Israel is entitled to self defense in the least. Those are opinions that are worth less than a bucket of urine.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 89
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 6:52:34 AM
00spy- there are many people in the NFL, NBA, etc. making a lot of money because of that belief. Where presumptions are making people money. Ha!

As far as I Q tests, they don't really show anything except that some people wrote the test and others had prep classes ( or your school actually taught you what an oligarchy is) or you were exposed to more (like names for furniture and you did a lot of "which one is not like the other" in class) and therefore could answer the question. Like family feud, if the people questioned for the survey do not look like the people on the show, chances are their answers will be different.

IQ tests do measure well what you know, just not why you know it.

_-------------
Re: #90.
Again, it is all in what you are taught and exposed to rather than inate intellect. The state of "urban" schools is apparent. There is not much room or funding for improvement if others who claim to be urban send their kids to private publically, funded schools, I.e. charters or magnet schools

Asians are suing now because they are limited in admissions to colleges.

Who for the most part makes the decision? Who is giving the awards, handling admissions, hires, has money for full tuition, etc, etc.

This is not a read. I wish black people would emulate that.
+++++(++++++(+++++++
On topic:
Israelis can and should fight for their home. Palestinians can also fight to regain lost ground. It is the nature of war.

The wall serves Israel well. Why the opposition to one here?
 marilyncollet
Joined: 2/5/2016
Msg: 90
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 7:02:17 AM
That is an argument, but of course does not explain why jews, a very small percentage of the population, are so ubiquitous in ivy league scools, the sciences, law, medicine, the arts and have so many Nobel prize winners among them.
 marilyncollet
Joined: 2/5/2016
Msg: 91
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 8:43:50 AM
So dee, you vote for culture over iq. Maybe to a degree. But I don't think a top scientist becomes a top scientist without also having the aptitude. With regard to the wall in israel, the sole purpose of that wall is for self defense and to stop terrorism. In the us, the purpose for such a wall would be completely different. They are not comparable issues.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 92
view profile
History
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 9:39:57 AM
IQ tests are suppose test your ability to learn, not test what you already know. But since different people will have different backgrounds in knowledge, it's hard not to have some look better or worse than they are. The reason higher IQs give many people a better chance in life is that they can learn & retain information better, as in a doctor needs to be able to access and keep into and know how to use that info, so someone going to medical school needs a higher IQ than someone who wants to be a chef, but both may well be able to do each others job...or not. IQ is a base level, not a tell all of what will become, and it's not really about what you already know, it's about if you can learn & retain. Of course you can be really good at one thing and suck eggs at another, no matter what your IQ score says.

As I said, it tests the ability to learn & retain, the ability.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 93
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 9:45:12 AM
Maybe they are supposed to, but they don't. If you have to choose from five answers, three containing words you weren't taught and have never seen before, what chance do you have?

How can you retain what you weren't taught? I realize that some people place all self esteem on IQ tests and I get that. A child in a poor environment can have all the intellect of the world and if not strengthened or nurtured further, it doesn't matter. Just like not that smart people get jobs and positions and opportunities because they know someone or grandma paid. It is not about race.
Then there are those who are simply cunning and take the ideas if others as their own. Lawsuits are filed weekly.

Also, culture is voluntary. No one voluntarily has a poor school or school system, so, no, it is not about culture.

I know some high IQ people who quit science to serve tables at a five star restaurant because they earn four times the money. I am always amazed when liberals put down blue and pink collar and hourly workers, this time as not too bright.

Again, I acknowledge that they have worth in showing what people know in facts and concepts. And not all people test alike. But high or not does not involve ethnicity or race in and of itself

Ask people in the border states and towns whether a wall would assist their safety.
 marilyncollet
Joined: 2/5/2016
Msg: 94
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 10:00:32 AM
Who has put down blue collar workers? Vocational training probaby leads to more jobs these days than a college degree. What has that to do with Israel or race? These threads sure do meander. What's going on in the border states? Are terrorists from Mexico blowing people up?
 Tootiefrutie1
Joined: 12/8/2015
Msg: 95
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 10:40:33 AM
"But high or not does not involve ethnicity or race in and of itself"

That may or may not be true. Along the way I've read articles about the different IQ's and aptitudes of people's of different ethnic and racial backgrounds.

For one:

https://www.nytimes.com/books/first/j/jencks-gap.html
 villabolos
Joined: 7/24/2015
Msg: 96
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 10:42:42 AM
So if there were no terrorist attacks, you'd be okay if Israel had an open border?? The muslims could pour in by the millions...build mosques...the calls to prayer would go out through the mosques everyday...speak every language but the national language of Israel,...muslim kids could be educated in muslim schools...they could go on welfare and have as many kids as possible and be supported by the Israeli gov't. ...free medical care for them...

I was all for what you were saying until you said it is okay for Israel to have wall but not the U.S.
If Trump is a hater and a demagogue for wanting to protect the U.S. and being a nationalist, the Israeli gov't is worse.
 marilyncollet
Joined: 2/5/2016
Msg: 97
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 11:22:58 AM
Yes. The wall in israel is of relatively recent origin. Before the intifada, there was free movement between israel and the West bank. I know I was there and crossed borders regularly. The us doesn't need a wall. Israel does. It's that simple.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 98
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 11:42:30 AM
Tutie. Re read what I wrote. There are differences in results but it is not because one group is inherently more intelligent, as measured in this part of the world.

It measures what you know and have been taught. It means nothing about your group. You will find highs and lows in all groups, some with more highs because of other advantages or experiences.

But, again, I understand people basing tmheir self esteem on that stuff. I get it.

As for the wall - goose gander.
 Tootiefrutie1
Joined: 12/8/2015
Msg: 99
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 12:36:13 PM
" Re read what I wrote. There are differences in results but it is not because one group is inherently more intelligent, as measured in this part of the world. "

While, I do believe that the environmental explanation holds true for the differences in racial and ethnic intelligence, many dispute environmental causes and claim the cause is at least partly if not totally genetic.

https://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf
 villabolos
Joined: 7/24/2015
Msg: 100
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 2/17/2016 1:16:32 PM
Marilyn-
Perhaps you should check with the FBI and Homeland Security about what is going on at "my country
s" southern border.
Anyways, it doesn't matter. There is no talking with people like you. I'm sure you feel the same way about me.

You make Trump out to be a racist. I was watching a local news channel the other night here in Houston. A black activist(Quanell X) who is a nation of islam member was staunchly defending Trump. He didn't say he was voting for him and nor did that topic even come up. He sure was in Trump's corner though. If Trump is a racist, that sure is an interesting individual to have defending him.


I'm curious though, why did you leave "your country"??
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