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 AUTHOR
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 1901
IsraelPage 77 of 82    (42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82)

Let me say this again....JOVAN is an absolutely horrible person. He is an antisemite of epic proportions.

Perhaps you'd like to define exactly what a "Semite" is,
-Then we can decide if I'm "anti-" them.

I see you've decided to continue to berate 47 in a thread about racial discrimination, for her opinions about circumcision.
I thought this was the place for it.
There are no medical benefits.

Part 1 - Circumcision Surgery Myths

Myth 1: They just cut off a flap of skin.

Reality check: Not true. The foreskin is half of the penis's skin, not just a flap. In an adult man, the foreskin is 15 square inches of skin. In babies and children, the foreskin is adhered to the head of the penis with the same type of tissue that adheres fingernails to their nail beds. Removing it requires shoving a blunt probe between the foreskin and the head of the penis and then cutting down and around the whole penis. Check out these photos: http://www.drmomma.org/2011/08/intact-or-circumcised-significant.html (link is external)

Myth 2: It doesn't hurt the baby.

Reality check: Wrong. In 1997, doctors in Canada did a study to see what type of anesthesia was most effective in relieving the pain of circumcision. As with any study, they needed a control group that received no anesthesia. The doctors quickly realized that the babies who were not anesthetized were in so much pain that it would be unethical to continue with the study. Even the best commonly available method of pain relief studied, the dorsal penile nerve block, did not block all the babies' pain. Some of the babies in the study were in such pain that they began choking and one even had a seizure (Lander 1997).

Myth 3: My doctor uses anesthesia.

Reality check: Not necessarily. Most newborns do not receive adequate anesthesia. Only 45% of doctors who do circumcisions use any anesthesia at all. Obstetricians perform 70% of circumcisions and are least likely to use anesthesia - only 25% do. The most common reasons why they don't? They didn't think the procedure warranted it, and it takes too long (Stang 1998). A circumcision with adequate anesthesia takes a half-hour - if they brought your baby back sooner, he was in severe pain during the surgery.

Myth 4: Even if it is painful, the baby won't remember it.

Reality check: The body is a historical repository and remembers everything. The pain of circumcision causes a rewiring of the baby's brain so that he is more sensitive to pain later (Taddio 1997, Anand 2000). Circumcision also can cause post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), depression, anger, low self-esteem and problems with intimacy (Boyle 2002, Hammond 1999, Goldman 1999). Even with a lack of explicit memory and the inability to protest - does that make it right to inflict pain? Ethical guidelines for animal research whenever possible* - do babies deserve any less?


Myth 5: My baby slept right through it.

Reality check: Not possible without total anesthesia, which is not available. Even the dorsal penile nerve block leaves the underside of the penis receptive to pain. Babies go into shock, which though it looks like a quiet state, is actually the body's reaction to profound pain and distress. Nurses often tell the parents "He slept right through it" so as not to upset them. Who would want to hear that his or her baby was screaming in agony?

Myth 6: It doesn't cause the baby long-term harm.

Reality check: Incorrect. Removal of healthy tissue from a non-consenting patient is, in itself, harm (more on this point later). Circumcision has an array of risks and side effects. There is a 1-3% complication rate during the newborn period alone (Schwartz 1990). Here is a short list potential complications.


Meatal Stenosis: Many circumcised boys and men suffer from meatal stenosis. This is a narrowing of the urethra which can interfere with urination and require surgery to fix.

Adhesions. Circumcised babies can suffer from adhesions, where the foreskin remnants try to heal to the head of the penis in an area they are not supposed to grow on. Doctors treat these by ripping them open with no anesthesia.

Buried penis. Circumcision can lead to trapped or buried penis - too much skin is removed, and so the penis is forced inside the body. This can lead to problems in adulthood when the man does not have enough skin to have a comfortable erection. Some men even have their skin split open when they have an erection. There are even more sexual consequences, which we will address in a future post.

Infection. The circumcision wound can become infected. This is especially dangerous now with the prevalence of hospital-acquired multi-drug resistant bacteria.

Death. Babies can even die of circumcision. Over 100 newborns die each year in the USA, mostly from loss of blood and infection (Van Howe 1997 & 2004, Bollinger 2010).

Isn't it time to think more carefully about whether we should be circumcising our boys?

But, you say, aren't there important health benefits?

There's a lot of hype about how circumcision is better for a man's health. But is it really?


Myth: You have to get the baby circumcised because it is really hard to keep a baby's penis clean.

article continues after advertisement

Reality check: In babies, the foreskin is completely fused to the head of the penis. You cannot and should not retract it to clean it, as this would cause the child pain, and is akin to trying to clean the inside of a baby girl's vagina. The infant foreskin is perfectly designed to protect the head of the penis and keep feces out. All you have to do is wipe the outside of the penis like a finger. It is harder to keep circumcised baby's penis clean because you have to carefully clean around the wound, make sure no feces got into the wound, and apply ointment.

Myth: Little boys won't clean under their foreskins and will get infections.

Reality check: The foreskin separates and retracts on its own sometime between age 3 and puberty. Before it retracts on its own, you wipe the outside off like a finger. After it retracts on its own, it will get clean during the boy's shower or bath. Once a boy discovers this cool, new feature of his penis, he will often retract the foreskin himself during his bath or shower, and you can encourage him to rinse it off. But he should not use soap as this upsets the natural balance and is very irritating. There is nothing special that the parents need to do. Most little boys have absolutely no problem playing with their penises in the shower or anywhere else! It was harder to teach my boys to wash their hair than it was to care for their penises. (Camille 2002)

Myth: Uncircumcised penises get smelly smegma.

Reality check: Actually, smegma is produced by the genitals of both women and men during the reproductive years. Smegma is made of sebum and skin cells and lubricates the foreskin and glans in men, and the clitoral hood and inner labia in women. It is rinsed off during normal bathing and does not cause cancer or any other health problems.

article continues after advertisement

Myth: "My uncle wasn't circumcised and he kept getting infections and had to be circumcised as an adult."

Reality check: Medical advice may have promoted infection in uncircumcised males. A shocking number of doctors are uneducated about the normal development of the foreskin, and they (incorrectly) tell parents that they have to retract the baby's foreskin and wash inside it at every diaper change. Doing this tears the foreskin and the tissue (called synechia) that connects it to the head of the penis, leading to scarring and infection.

Misinformation was especially prevalent during the 1950s and 60s, when most babies were circumcised and we didn't know as much about the care of the intact penis, which is why the story is always about someone's uncle. Doing this to a baby boy would be like trying to clean the inside of a baby girl's vagina with Q-tips at every diaper change. Rather than preventing problems, such practices would cause problems by introducing harmful bacteria. Remember that humans evolved from animals, so no body part that required special care would survive evolutionary pressures. The human genitals are wonderfully self-cleaning and require no special care.

Myth: My son was diagnosed with phimosis and so had to be circumcised.

Reality check: Phimosis means that the foreskin will not retract. Since children's foreskins are naturally not retractable, it is impossible to diagnose phimosis in a child. Any such diagnoses in infants are based on misinformation, and are often made in order to secure insurance coverage of circumcision in states in which routine infant circumcision is no longer covered.

article continues after advertisement

Even some adult men have foreskins that do not retract, but as long as it doesn't interfere with sexual intercourse, it is no problem at all, as urination itself cleans the inside of the foreskin.

Phimosis can also be treated conservatively with a steroid cream and gentle stretching done by the man himself, should he so desire it, or, at worst, a slit on the foreskin, rather than total circumcision. (Ashfield 2003) These treatment decisions can and should be made by the adult man.

Myth: Uncircumcised boys get more urinary tract infections (UTIs.)

Reality check: This claim is based on one study that looked at charts of babies born in one hospital (Wiswell 1985). The study had many problems, including that it didn't accurately count whether or not the babies were circumcised, whether they were premature and thus more susceptible to infection in general, whether they were breastfed (breastfeeding protects against UTI), and if their foreskins had been forcibly retracted (which can introduce harmful bacteria and cause UTI) (Pisacane 1990). There have been many studies since which show either no decrease in UTI with circumcision, or else an increase in UTI from circumcision. Thus circumcision is not recommended to prevent UTI (Thompson 1990). Girls have higher rates of UTI than boys, and yet when a girl gets a UTI, she is simply prescribed antibiotics. The same treatment works for boys.

Myth: Circumcision prevents HIV/AIDS.

Reality check: Three studies in Africa several years ago that claimed that circumcision prevented AIDS and that circumcision was as effective as a 60% effective vaccine (Auvert 2005, 2006). These studies had many flaws, including that they were stopped before all the results came in. There have also been several studies that show that circumcision does not prevent HIV (Connolly 2008). There are many issues at play in the spread of STDs which make it very hard to generalize results from one population to another.

In Africa, where the recent studies have been done, most HIV transmission is through male-female sex, but in the USA, it is mainly transmitted through blood exposure (like needle sharing) and male-male sex. Male circumcision does not protect women from acquiring HIV, nor does it protect men who have sex with men (Wawer 2009, Jameson 2009).

What's worse, because of the publicity surrounding the African studies, men in Africa are now starting to believe that if they are circumcised, they do not need to wear condoms, which will increase the spread of HIV (Westercamp 2010). Even in the study with the most favorable effects of circumcision, the protective effect was only 60% - men would still have to wear condoms to protect themselves and their partners from HIV.

In the USA, during the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s and 90s, about 85% of adult men were circumcised (much higher rates of circumcision than in Africa), and yet HIV still spread.

It is important to understand, too, that the men in the African studies were adults and they volunteered for circumcision. Babies undergoing circumcision were not given the choice to decide for themselves.

Myth: Circumcision is worth it because it can save lives.

Reality check: Consider breast cancer: There is a 12% chance that a woman will get breast cancer in her lifetime. Removal of the breast buds at birth would prevent this, and yet no one would advocate doing this to a baby. It is still considered somewhat shocking when an adult woman chooses to have a prophylactic mastectomy because she has the breast cancer gene, yet this was a personal choice done based upon a higher risk of cancer. The lifetime risk of acquiring HIV is less than 2% for men, and can be lowered to near 0% through condom-wearing (Hall 2008). How, then, can we advocate prophylactic circumcision for baby boys?

Science and data do not support the practice of infant circumcision. Circumcision does not preclude the use of the condom. The adult male should have the right to make the decision for himself and not have his body permanently damaged as a baby.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/moral-landscapes/201109/myths-about-circumcision-you-likely-believe
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/moral-landscapes/201109/more-circumcision-myths-you-may-believe-hygiene-and-stds

Now for this:

How dare the jews seek out the safety of their own country in their ancestrial homeland after 6 million of them were slaughteted by Europeans.

1/. Theodore Herzl first published "Das Judenstat" (so?) in 1897, that was not "after" WWII, it was before.
2/. Upwards of 60 million people were slaughtered, "by Europeans", during WWII., almost all of them (including the 6 million who self-identified or were identified as "jews) were also Europeans.
3/. It wasn't "their own country", other people already lived there, the Palestinians, and they were forcibly driven out, or killed.
They bulldozed some 350 entire villages by 1948.
4/. It was only their "ancestral home" if you believe the mythology of the bible, and even then, it was only for a comparatively short time, and ended 2000 years ago.
2,000 years ago the world was a different place, with completely different "tribes" and beliefs, and completely different "nations".
There is nothing rational about trying to recreate any of them.
We know a whole lot more now, than they knew then.

People should read this:
http://ifamericaknew.org/history/origin.html
It's written entirely by people who self-identify as "jews", but are completely against the occupation, "zionism" and the "israeli" state.
Including:

Israeli author, Simha Flapan
Norman Finkelstein
Noam Chomsky
Israeli historian, Benny Morris
Israeli author, Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi
Zionist writer Ahad Ha’am
Israeli historian, Ilan Pappe
Yitzhak Rabin, Israel’s Chief of Staff in 1967
Israeli professor, Israel Shahak
Rabbi Judah L. Magnes, first president of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem,
Israeli actress (and household name) Rivka Mitchell
Israeli author Boas Evron
Israeli historian, Tom Segev
Prof. William Rubinstein
Rabbi Mayer Schiller

All have contributed to "Jews against the Occupation", and are quoted here:

http://ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html
All those people are "jewish", and all have spoken out, about the injustices inflicted on Palestinians.
Or watch any of the talks by Miko Peled, an Israeli, the son of one of its founding generals.

No doubt they're all "horrible people" too.
(Marilyn, you do know that not many men speak like that? )
Have a nice day, it's miserable here.
 ghostata
Joined: 3/29/2018
Msg: 1902
Israel
Posted: 5/30/2018 5:31:20 AM
Jovan...don't post trash on my behalf...I'm not reading it. There is nothing you can post which can refute actual medical evidence and nothing will diminish your being an objectively cruel man. You have a lot in common with trump in that regard :-)
 Looney_TTT
Joined: 2/1/2016
Msg: 1903
Israel
Posted: 5/30/2018 10:47:20 AM
#1896
I have tried once to someone who is a despicable human being on what they said but could never get where I could with POF on how to do it.

What gives you the right (in your delusional mind) to decide that someone just has to be deleted?

You appear to be a "deplorable" - actually a really ignorant "deplorable" and you think you just have the right to try to have someone deleted?
 ghostata
Joined: 3/29/2018
Msg: 1904
Israel
Posted: 5/30/2018 1:25:01 PM
^^^^ are you kidding...deletion has been going on for years now.... it was the POF Admins who decided the animals here would have the right to delete others....and in case you have not noticed, the board has been decimated....we have lost some very good posters. The only reason I am here is because I refused to die just because some scumbag wanted me gone.... I always have profiles in reserve so I can afford to lost three or four per day and still be way ahead of the game.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 1905
Israel
Posted: 5/30/2018 2:25:18 PM
lmfao...I see what you did there Looney - caused someone to have a "squirrel moment".
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 1906
Israel
Posted: 5/30/2018 3:16:06 PM
I don't agree with deletions. People should be allowed to hold forth.
Note to self must do Jo's link.

On topic well it's all about geopolitics. Is there oil
in the Golan heights...hopefully we can have a two state
solution one day and they then can Unite peacefully
against jo and tell him to stop scuttling around
Liverpool in a taxi ...in a taxi ...handing out vacate
notices...

I'm going to Hamilton in a couple of weeks the long
wait is nearly over. I suppose you've all seen it...
I heard the hype is warranted .. our Alexander
Hamilton is brilliant. I wonder if they'll do one
with President Trump.... goodnight America.. london calling...
Just outside... really...
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 1907
Israel
Posted: 5/31/2018 7:34:30 AM

Note to self must do Jo's link.

Yes, you must.

On topic well it's all about geopolitics. Is there oil
in the Golan heights...hopefully we can have a two state
solution one day and they then can Unite peacefully
against jo

I'd reserve judgement until you've read the history, mainly from the beginning of the last century, after "Das Judenstat"; 1897, by Theodore Herzl, that was the beginning of the "project" to establish a state there. Then the "Balfour Declaration", from Britain, in 1917, which reneged on the promises made to the Palestinians, as a reward for their help in defeating the men who were half-man-half otter. (Lawrence of Arabia went to my school, so I declare a vested interest here. )
(Wikipedia is also good for an overview of the history of the conflict/occupation .)

When (if?) you read it, perhaps you could tell me why a religion should have their own country? -Especially if that happens by armed occupation of an existing country?
And if they should, then why are people so opposed to "Isis", when that's what they're trying to do?

Do the "moonies" deserve their own country too"?
The Zoroastrianism, the "jehova's witnesses", the "scientologists", the "Buddhists", "Sikhs", there are over 10,000 different religions, who decides which ones are "valid", and who decides which of them should have their own country?

There have been wars in the Middle East, over these religions since the religions were invented.
Each insisting that their "beliefs" are the only "true" beliefs.
No compromise, because the "word of god" can't be challenged or changed.

If only "god", (who the "jews" claim: "gave them the land" ) would just put in an appearance (as in the books which they also claim are "true"), and clarify things, (maybe with a legal deed of title, dated 3,500 BCE? ) then all this senseless squabbling and mass-murder could stop.

(I don't think that any of these "believer" fvckers are "praying" nearly hard enough!!! Put your backs into it!!! )
So far, nada, zilch, not a sign of any of the many different "gods" which they all claim are real.

Funny that....
 ghostata
Joined: 3/29/2018
Msg: 1908
Israel
Posted: 5/31/2018 8:46:39 AM
^^^ absolutely terrible...can you believe there were jews in the 1800's who actually wanted to reestablish their homeland in Israel and who still found Jerusalem important. They should be killed...oh wait.... ***hole Europeans already did that didn't they?
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 1909
Israel
Posted: 5/31/2018 9:35:21 AM
You misunderstand me Marilyn, - I'm against killing anyone.
It's really all the killing that I most object to.
Especially when it's done on the basis of beliefs which YOU have described as "absurd".

These are literally the beliefs of the stone age/Neolithic.
Everything bad which happened to those people, fires, floods, droughts, disease, earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, or just regular floods, were all attributed to "the wrath of god/(S)"
Who else could shake the ground, or send fountains of molten rock into the air, and then the ground?
(/rhetorical question: please don't answer.)
They "sacrificed" animals to "please their god".

The stablishment of "israel " is like one of those "historical reenactment societies", who've gone completely mad, and now think that's "the future".
They are no more a "race" than "goths" are.
Just some people who all share a delusion, and all take themselves far too seriously.
Which resulted in the murders of thousands of Palestinians, who didn't share their version of "what god wants".

There's no kind way of saying it.
These are people killing for a fantasy.
"God" didn't "give them" anything.
-Because, as you've conceded; "there is no personal god", and the stories in the bible, of "demons" and monsters are just "absurd".

I only wish I could say :"and you're back in the room" to them.
Put the pieces together.

Pointing this out doesn't make me a "horrible person", any more than it makes Richard Dawkins, or Stephen Hawking "horrible people" for being atheists.
We are simply not convinced, by the total lack of evidence.
And because we see these "beliefs" in the contexts of the wider societal beliefs and knowledge, at the times they were conceived.

You say you're a "respecter of religion"?
Are you in favour of "isis" establishing a "muslim caliphate", by force too?
Or any of their other ridiculous "beliefs" regarding women?
Should their "beliefs" be "respected"?

Religions hold us back.
-Because they're the beliefs of the past.
I can't see how anyone can argue for the perpetuation of these institutionalised superstitions.
But it's just my opinion.....
Calm down dear....
 ghostata
Joined: 3/29/2018
Msg: 1910
Israel
Posted: 5/31/2018 10:20:52 AM
Everybody is against Killing Jovan....its easy to say... but then we have to deal with the realities of life don't we. We don't get to live in the world you want us to live in, we can only live in the world as it is. That is something you have never understood....the world will never be as you envision it....not as long as mankind exists.

I can't speak for Isis..... I only stand for judaism...which is a non-violent religion whose people have always tried to mind their own business until you Europeans tried to exterminate all of them. heck, you are still trying to exterminate them. There is no equivalence between isis and judaism. You have said for years you don't agree with the creation of Israel...well too bad...its here... it exists and that is the reality we have to deal with. . . so fuk off.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 1911
Israel
Posted: 5/31/2018 12:07:44 PM

can't speak for Isis..... I only stand for judaism...which is a non-violent religion whose people have always tried to mind their own business until you Europeans tried to exterminate all of them

You're a European too.
Half German, iirc.
The Germans didn't just try to exterminate "jews", they did the same to "Slavs", as if that were another "race", the reality is just another linguistic. definition, - just like "semites".

As for "non violent", that's just a lie I'm afraid.
They drove 700,000 Palestinians from their homes.
-denying that is like denying the holocaust. It's all well-documented, and because it's so recent, there also film and photographic evidence.
To pretend that never happened is what's causing all the problems.

I don't deny the holocaust, my parents and their families were also victims, it wasn't 6 million, it was 60 million.
The Germans occupied their countries, and they fought back.
-Just like the Palestinians have been doing, for about 80 years now.

You can call me all the names you like, but I'm not making this shit up, anyone who cares to look will arrive at the same conclusions.
I read the writings of people who were there, at the time, including Weizmann, or Ben Gurion.
They admitted it.
-That the people who think themselves to be "jews", pushed the exisiting population out.
That was always the plan. That was what the British decided would happen, against the wishes of the Palestinians, and all the surrounding "muslim" countries.

Whatever "reasons" they might have had, it doesn't excuse that.
The denial is the most dishonest part.
Pretending that the Palestinians hate you for no justifiable reason is despicable.

It's just another indicator that "religions give us our morality" is nothing but another myth.
Their lies are as easily disproved as trump's.
There can't be any peace as long as either side is lying, and they both know they're lying.

Speaking of which, I think he only moved the embassy to "troll" the "muslims", because he's a "racist" cvnt. [/Med. Term]
Trump wants a war, because he thinks brown people are "evil".
I'm pretty sure he won't know about the history, any more than he'll know the history of the Korean conflicts, or Vietnam.
He just wants to "throw meat" to his "racist" followers.
Jmo
 ghostata
Joined: 3/29/2018
Msg: 1912
Israel
Posted: 5/31/2018 12:17:44 PM
You are a fuking broken record,..... you know what.... I don't give a fuk what you claim happened to 70 years ago. You are an incredibly delusional man if you think any of what you claim happened matters in the present....that is why you are worthless Jovan..... you rail on about religion, race and everything under the sun as if your opinions could possibly ever make any difference in the world. Here are some facts for you:

1) Israel exists and only gets strong by the year. Nothing you can do about it.

2) People world over are becoming more religious, not less religious, nothing you can do about it.

3) People will always be tribalistic...always.....nothing you can do about it.

4) If you were raped by a Priest in the past, accounting for you being totally fuked up in the Present, the only thing you can do about it is get help...God knows you need it. Maybe you should try praying to him...can't hurt.
 ghostata
Joined: 3/29/2018
Msg: 1913
Israel
Posted: 5/31/2018 2:49:08 PM
She is simply absolutely stunning....

https://www.quirkybyte.com/blog/2017/07/super-hot-images-gal-gadot/

Almost makes you want to join the Israeli Army

https://sputniknews.com/society/201709281057779268-israeli-female-soldiers-photos/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4068388/The-Israeli-soldiers-hot-weaponry-Meet-young-women-chosen-career-military-not-afraid-reveal-assets.html

https://www.flickr.com/photos/idfonline/sets/72157623245265101/


Jovan...yep, there is just a slight difference between Isis and Israel.....especially when it comes to the women :-)
 ghostata
Joined: 3/29/2018
Msg: 1914
Israel
Posted: 5/31/2018 7:03:28 PM
Hey Jovan, this is a good,
solid article...touches on Jewish intelligence, races, group differences, etc. Good comments too.

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/culture/features/1478/

It's A fair review of the subject.
 ghostata
Joined: 3/29/2018
Msg: 1915
Israel
Posted: 6/1/2018 5:38:54 AM
Joe Van I just read up above what you said about the Germans how they killed Slavs too. Oh, well that changes everything....jesus are you a sick ful. Try praying to jesus for help. Maybe you can enlist the aid of some of the leftists on here who Swoon over you... What A Catch You Are. Roflmao
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 1916
view profile
History
Israel
Posted: 6/1/2018 11:20:41 AM

You can call me all the names you like, but I'm not making this shit up, anyone who cares to look will arrive at the same conclusions.
I read the writings of people who were there, at the time, including Weizmann, or Ben Gurion.
They admitted it.


Wrong. You are making it up as you go along. You can not "occupy" disputed land with no previous legal sovereign. It is impossible. The people that lived there previous to the existence of Israel belonged to the Ottoman Empire. There was never a country of "Palestine". The Arabs were offered the majority of the land and refused several offers. They chose to go to war instead and lost, even with the help of the Arab League. Complaining that the territory of Palestine is smaller now is like complaining that Germany lost land to Poland when they lost World War 2.

The idea that Trump moved the embassy to troll Muslims is laughable. Jerusalem is where the Israeli government is located. Even if you gave Jerusalem to Palestine, you still wouldn't achieve peace in the region, and that's based on historical evidence. There was no peace when the Arabs ruled Jerusalem. Jerusalem should be completely run by the Jews because Jews allow Muslims to visit their holy sites and Muslims prevent Jews from visiting their holy sites. In 1929, Jews wanted to bring chairs for seniors to the Western Wall and the Arabs rioted and killed 17 people. Then Arabs in Hebron kill 60 Jews. In 1948, the Arabs cut off all roads to Jerusalem because Israel accepted the partition agreement and tried to put the Jews in Jerusalem under siege, costing many lives to break free from those blockades. In 1964, the Arabs still ran East Jerusalem and formed the Palestinian Liberation Organization (later became the Palestinian Authority). Their stated goal was the complete destruction of Israel, from the river to the sea - Palestine shall be free. All these things happened while Arabs controlled Jerusalem. That's why it should be completely handed over to Israel.
 ghostata
Joined: 3/29/2018
Msg: 1917
Israel
Posted: 6/1/2018 11:54:22 AM
^^^^^ we all know Jovan has no integrity and that he always manipulates the evidence to his benefit...Lets not forget when Jordan occupied the West Bank and Jerusalem, that is exactly right...it wouldn't let Israelis or jews visit their own holy sites. That lasted until the 1967 war, but Israel never retaliated and put Muslim sites off limits to Arabs. If Jovan was to believed the way he posts on here, Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and founder and President Ben Gurion thought Israel was a "mistake" and wanted to apologize to the Arabs.

And to my former friend who claimed in her first sentence in the kneeling thread that Israeli self defense was "drivel"... I did not read beyond your first sentence and did not read your response to my suggestion you fuk yourself...so in case you missed it...go fuk yourself. In fact why doh't you and Jovan get a place together...two peas in a pod. Hey you can both get together and have a good time offending Jews everywhere by claiming they "mutilate" their children in a "barbaric" procedure....and you can claim all jewish guys have been "mutilated"...because after all, its only your opinion and your opinion is as good as anybody elses....fuk the Pediatric Doctors who disagree...what do they know.

And no, I am not reading any responses from any other leftist trash either...you all are the same...simpletons who don't understand anything about what you offer opinions on....easily brainwashed by your leftist masters who tell you what to think and how to think...you are worse than those on the right.
 ghostata
Joined: 3/29/2018
Msg: 1918
Israel
Posted: 6/1/2018 2:26:19 PM

Their stated goal was the complete destruction of Israel, from the river to the sea - Palestine shall be free. All these things happend while Arabs controlled Jerusalem.


That is STILL their stated goal, still a fundamental part of their charter...they raise their children to hate the Jews, they kill Jews every chance they get...Israel had to actually build a wall to keep the terrorists from the West Bank from infiltrating Israel and wantonly killing its women and children without remorse.

If there is one thing ISIS has taught the world, the Muslims can act like total savages when they want to do so...and Jovan, Seagull, Cotter, etc. etc...don't want Israel to have the ability to defend itself against this scourge...Seagul says even mentioning its right to defend itself is "drivel" and thinks Cotter, who constantly slandered the Jews was a "kind" woman. Jovan thinks Israel should apologize to the Arabs and throw down its weapons and throw itself at the Arab's mercy......other Leftist Trash on this board always rails against Israel when Palestinians are killed, but never when Palestinians kill Israelis....they have no idea that even in the early 70's....before the intifada, Jerusalem was actually an open city, with the Arabs working in Israel and returning to their homes in the West Bank after work, with many Arabs living in israel as regular citizens, as part of Israel's Congress (Knesset) . Still are.

The leftists who rail against Israel are Simpletons who don't know the actual history, or buy the lies from Lying Jovan types...people with no integrity.....these pieces of trash have the leftists believing Israel is an apartheid country....instead of a thriving Democracy that has done everything possible for peace....instead you have revisionist Historians like Jovan...who do everything they can to delegitimize Israel's very existence. Let me state again...anybody who just buy's into lying Jovans stories is a simpleton...not worthy of my friendship..not even close. but then again, when they don't realize accusing Jews of "mutilating" their children in "barbaric" rituals is offensive...well Simpleton becomes pretty self evident doesn't it?
 ghostata
Joined: 3/29/2018
Msg: 1919
Israel
Posted: 6/2/2018 11:13:53 AM
To move the discussion over to this thread from the kneeling thread as I am guilty of hijacking that thread, I again Ask seagul, the self-proclaimed leftist liberal to explain how she can on the one hand advocate that women have the right to choose to abort their own fetuses because it's their own bodies and on the other hand assert that women do not have the right to choose to circumcise their infant Sons.

I'm pretty sure that as she has up to this point, seagull will not answer the question or will deflect as she already has. So what do I think the answer is? I think the answer is that lying Jovan told her what to think and told her that circumcision by Jewish women on their Jewish Sons, something that has been done by religious and secular Jews alike for thousands of years, is in fact barbaric mutilation. The critically thinking seagull of course accepted this edict immediately and proclaimed to lying Jovan "you get it".

When it was pointed out to Seagull that she was accepting lying Jovan's anti-Semitic mocking of Jews, she backtracked and said it had nothing to do with Jews, she just felt that way about everybody. Parents shouldn't make that decision for their children....wait until the child is an adult.
Which of course is nonsense because Seagull knows that lying Jovan is always mocking the jews. They are his favorite subject.

Of course the medical literature which Lying Jovan and Seagul ignore offers clear health benefits of circumcision and also makes it clear that it is much easier for a baby to be circumcised than an adult male. But of course the medical literature is meaningless to Seagull who does not have the integrity or the decency to admit she didn't even bother looking at the medical evidence and simply accepted Jovan's opinion on the matter. Or alternatively...she argues but but but...there are other opinions that recommend against it....... So there we have it folks...Seagull got caught mocking the Jews in a non-critically thinking way.... then denies it, then claims that she is relying on controverted medical literature....

So this is the way it is with Seagull, she has the right to an opinion, damn it, and her opinion is as good as anybody elses.... and if she proclaims that circumcision is barbaric mutilation...damn it...she is entitled to her opinion...because Lying Jovan says so or because the medical literature is somewhat conflicting....and of course nobody has the right to make these medical decisions for themselves, ... especially when religion is involved...because Lying Jovan says the Religious are mentally ill and Seagul claps...yes I agree Lying Jovan... how dare anybody believe in God, and so anything you say... I am going agree with and never protest, and so Left Trash gets to decide on mother's very personal medical decision..

When it is pointed out to Seagull that Lying Jovan makes no sense...for example, he whines that Theodore Herz wanted to establish a Jewish Homeland in Israel in the 1800s....which has zero to do with anything, Seagull proclaims "I don't want to hear about Jewish Self Defense Drivel"

You aren't really a Liberal thinker Seagull...you let other people do the thinking for you. Very sad. Pathetic....so Pathetic. John is absolutely right of course about KJ...you could learn alot from her about decency and maybe even something about loyalty and an obligation to speak up when somebody, like the guy you swoon for, is nothing but a bigoted, racist, antisemite......but that just doesn't matter to you...why? Because like the other leftist Trash...Israeli lives don't matter... Only Muslim lives matter to you people.
 justinelle
Joined: 8/28/2017
Msg: 1920
view profile
History
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 6/3/2018 1:10:31 PM
Israel has a plan and I think its interesting, getting loads of snipers, and shooting people for fun, and so far 15,000 people shot, with fragmentation ammunition, and so not so many as we held back, of these many are now amputees, that should slow them down a bit, and as for the death count, not so impressive. We are fair in who are killed, we do not discriminate, as death is an equaliser, so its women, Children, Men Boys, Wheelchair bound, , nurses, in fact all are fair game in this daily sport of shooting at the sub humans. The joke is they keep coming back for more, they are so stupid, so lets hope we can get the figure up to 110K, less people to cause problems, and many will die silently of their wounds so not in official daily kill numbers. We might with luck reach just 500 immediate corpses. You should see what happens with ahead shot, we now realise they have brains too, but Palestinians body parts make good fertiliser in the fields of Gaza.

With the press under control, no one dares say a thing as it anti Semitic, so the joy can continue. Sad the air force has decided to join in, and bombs help reduce the overcrowding problem and body count, but it far less fun than us sniping..

The heavy armour, the tanks has to show up and demonstrate what shooting the subs with a bigger gun could do, and quite impressive, but its a turkey shoot, snakes in a barrel, and why they just dong leave Israel completely I do not know.

We starve them, cut their water supply off, restrict water and electricity, not forgetting fuel, impoverish them economically, do not allow them out of their large prison, by boat/sea, or land. We treat them how we like, subs don’t feel pain like us, and we do not like subs at all, and a kick here a shooting there and as they are all terrorists what else can one do with vermin.

But we carry on, the USA backs us every time at the UN so the show goes on, nothing can stop us, and as we control the media almost globally, through friends and threats, no one really know what is going on as we constantly tell the world its their fault for being terrorists or supporting terrorism, and anyway they want to kill us all, and the media pump out this message and everything is fine, we can do not wrong and if anyone says we do, then the are anti-Semites, or Jew haters, so no one will listen to them anyway.

So life is good here in Israel, and we cannot get rid of the sub overnight but its all working well using stealth, demolishing homes, passing laws that allow us to own whatever is next on the list. Its absolutely perfect as long as you agree we are the chosen ones and never forget the holocaust, 6 million of us dead, and we are the most important of the people murdered. Who cares about the Russians and their 27 million killed, or the gypsies, who no one wants anyway, the publicity is all about us, and the rest are unimportant, if not irrelevant.

So when greater Israel is at last realised and all non Jews no longer live in this Promised land. We have little problem though, first we have to be most sorry about destroying the Temple Mount Mosque, we are so sorry, and we shed the usual crocodile tears, and with sad, regretful faces tell the global media the people who did this will be punished. We will try not to burst out laughing and hope we all keep straight faces to camera. We are very good at sincerity. At last the rebuilding of our Temple can start. Who cares what others think, this is Out Gods land and we are his chosen people and we can do no wrong because we are good , honest people, we believe in peace but everyone wants to kill us, so we have to defend ourselves, by threatening and bombing enemies and possible enemies. One cannot be too careful around here, they all hate us, and we the most peace loving nation, the only real democracy in the region, who do not wrong, see not wrong and you hear no wrong.

Fancy a holiday in Israel, wonderful beaches, nice food, friendly people???
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 1921
view profile
History
Great Job , isreal
Posted: 6/3/2018 1:51:34 PM

Israel has a plan and I think its interesting, getting loads of snipers, and shooting people for fun, and so far 15,000 people shot, with fragmentation ammunition, and so not so many as we held back, of these many are now amputees, that should slow them down a bit, and as for the death count, not so impressive. We are fair in who are killed, we do not discriminate, as death is an equaliser, so its women, Children, Men Boys, Wheelchair bound, , nurses, in fact all are fair game in this daily sport of shooting at the sub humans. The joke is they keep coming back for more, they are so stupid, so lets hope we can get the figure up to 110K, less people to cause problems, and many will die silently of their wounds so not in official daily kill numbers. We might with luck reach just 500 immediate corpses. You should see what happens with ahead shot, we now realise they have brains too, but Palestinians body parts make good fertiliser in the fields of Gaza.


Are you capable of saying anything coherent?
 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 1922
Israel
Posted: 6/3/2018 8:30:52 PM
The comparison to ISIS caliphate was interesting, since ISIS had quite a bureaucracy going, like any government. And while it was oddly not mentioned when ghostie talked about Judism not being a violent religion, the Irgun killed 91 when they bombed the King David Hotel in the summer of 46:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

"The Irgun (Hebrew: ארגון‬; full title: הארגון הצבאי הלאומי בארץ ישראל‬ Hā-ʾIrgun Ha-Tzvaʾī Ha-Leūmī b-Ērētz Yiśrāʾel, lit. "The National Military Organization in the Land of Israel") was a Zionist paramilitary organization that operated in Mandate Palestine between 1931 and 1948. It was an offshoot of the older and larger Jewish paramilitary organization Haganah (Hebrew: הגנה‬, Defence). When the group broke from the Haganah it became known as the Haganah Bet (Hebrew: literally "Defense 'B' " or "Second Defense", הגנה ב‬), or alternatively as haHaganah haLeumit (ההגנה הלאומית) or Hama'amad (המעמד‬).[1] Irgun members were absorbed into the Israel Defense Forces at the start of the 1948 Arab–Israeli war. The Irgun is also referred to as Etzel (אצ"ל‬), an acronym of the Hebrew initials, or by the abbreviation IZL.
The Irgun policy was based on what was then called Revisionist Zionism founded by Ze'ev Jabotinsky. According to Howard Sachar, "The policy of the new organization was based squarely on Jabotinsky's teachings: every Jew had the right to enter Palestine; only active retaliation would deter the Arabs; only Jewish armed force would ensure the Jewish state".[2]
Two of the operations for which the Irgun is best known are the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem on 22 July 1946 and the Deir Yassin massacre, carried out together with Lehi on 9 April 1948.
The Irgun has been viewed as a terrorist organization or organization which carried out terrorist acts.[3][4][5][6] Specifically the organization "committed acts of terrorism and assassination against the British, whom it regarded as illegal occupiers, and it was also violently anti-Arab" according to the Encyclopædia Britannica.[7] In particular the Irgun was described as a terrorist organization by the United Nations, British, and United States governments; in media such as The New York Times newspaper;[8][9] as well as by the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry,[10][11] the 1946 Zionist Congress[12] and the Jewish Agency.[13] Irgun's tactics appealed to many Jews who believed that any action taken in the cause of the creation of a Jewish state was justified, including terrorism.[14]
The Irgun was a political predecessor to Israel's right-wing Herut (or "Freedom") party, which led to today's Likud party.[15] Likud has led or been part of most Israeli governments since 1977."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
 Looney_TTT
Joined: 2/1/2016
Msg: 1923
Zionists are ruthless murderers
Posted: 6/4/2018 7:17:03 AM


^^^^

the Irgun killed 91 when they bombed the King David Hotel in the summer of 46:


Wasn't Menachem Begin a member of that Irgun killer organization?

Didn't he once say:
(Menachem Begin’s Master Race Quote)
“Our race (speaking of the Jews) is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferiot races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best.

Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.” – Menachem Begin.”

What was the "Deir Yassin Massacre"?

Oh yeah -
Early in the morning of April 9, 1948, commandos of the Irgun (headed by Menachem Begin) and the Stern Gang attacked Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents.

image: http://deiryassin.org/images/fpview_yv.jpg
The village lay outside of the area to be assigned by the United Nations to the Jewish State; it had a peaceful reputation. But it was located on high ground in the corridor between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Deir Yassin was slated for occupation under Plan Dalet and the mainstream Jewish defense force, the Haganah, authorized the irregular terrorist forces of the Irgun and the Stern Gang to perform the takeover.

image: http://deiryassin.org/images/fpwall.jpg
In all over 100 men, women, and children were systematically murdered. Fifty-three orphaned children were literally dumped along the wall of the Old City, where they were found by Miss Hind Husseini and brought behind the American Colony Hotel to her home, which was to become the Dar El-Tifl El-Arabi orphanage.

Part of the struggle for self-determination by Palestinians has been to tell the truth about Palestinians as victims of Zionism. For too long their history has been denied,

image: http://deiryassin.org/images/fptrip12.jpg
and this denial has only served to further oppress and deliberately dehumanize Palestinians in Israel, inside the occupied territories, and outside in their diaspora.

Some progress has been made. Westerners now realize that Palestinians, as a people, do exist. And they have come to acknowledge that during the creation of the state of Israel, thousands of Palestinians were killed and over 700,000 were driven or frightened from their homes and lands on which they had lived for centuries."


So did this happen or not?
 happata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 1924
Israel
Posted: 6/4/2018 7:33:40 AM
You obviously misunderstood me mustang...i have always looked at the Irgun, the Haganah, even the later JDL American version as a blessing for the jews. Out of the Irgun came Menachem Begin, who through strength negotiated a peace deal with Egypt. I just wish there were more of them around to rally the far too non violent Jews living in Europe. Sure there were some rebellions, the Warsaw ghetto...etc...but far too fee. The Jews of Europe never realized how monstrous humanity...european humanity anyway, allowed themselves to be starved and weakened to such an extent that they socially walked into those cattle cars. Begin and other Jewish fighters fought back and said never again. These people were heros in my book, without them Israel never would have existed, The Jews would never have learned to fight back. I would never attempt to hide what they did. I celebrate it. I think Spielburg should do a movie about it. What this has to do with a religion of violence practiced by Isis is simply not clear to me.

In the end, I really don't care how Israel was established. I'm only glad it has been. Israel will continue to stand for the Jewish religion when no one else has. Never Forget Europe tried to exterminate the jews. People are still trying. Jews actually fighting back is a new phenomenon in European history. That's never going to change. With nuclear armed submarines, no country can really do anything to Israel with facing an existential crises. I think that's a great thing. The Palestinians are sooner or later going to have to recognize Israel's right to exist because they have no other choice if they want to join the world as another independent state. Pity the other Arabs never took their brothers in though.
 happata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 1925
Israel
Posted: 6/4/2018 7:36:17 AM
Looney...your post is so typical of brain stupid fuktard leftist trash. You people are a filing joke....the average leftist iq on this board has got to be less than 100....and you think leftist trash is better than a Trump supporter. ROFLMAO
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