Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Brexit      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 26
BrexitPage 2 of 16    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)
The legal showdown between Apple and the F.B.I. over encryption, no matter the outcome, will likely accelerate tech company efforts to engineer safeguards against government intrusion, tech industry executives say.

Already, an emerging industry is marketing super-secure phones and mobile applications.

An Apple executive said the company will strengthen its encryption if it wins its court battle with the federal government, which last week secured a court order requiring Apple engineers to help extract data from a phone associated with the mass shootings in San Bernardino.

The executive spoke on condition of anonymity. An Apple spokesperson declined to comment publicly.

Tech news.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 27
Brexit
Posted: 2/25/2016 5:36:29 PM
^
#33


Get your years right,


http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/1/newsid_2459000/2459167.stm

the year is 1973 as the above!
geezer, pull your head outta your arse and sober yourself up!
-------------------------------------

#31 vlad says:


I believe that the True Democracy that Switzerland has is the way forward.


then yous should have gotten into the habit of minding your own business and keeping to yourselves as the Swiss have done!


We were lied to about joining 'the common market'. What it's true aims were


why did heath lie?
what did he have to gain?


These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified.


What did the UK lose that other members didn't lose?


When challenged later as to why he lied he said ‘the British public are too stupid to be involved in governing themselves’.


If this is true, then it would stand to reason that he hasn't been the only one to maintain this belief; since no one else that followed took any serious stance in withdrawing the UK out of it. I guess Charles DeGaulle had your interests in mind better than any of YOUR leaders when he voted "non" to UK membership!


I believe that working folk are not there to be exploited for financial gain. I believe that a decent days work deserves a decent days pay. I believe that working folk deserve decent housing. I believe that working folk should have time to spend outwith working hours as socialising time. This does not happen under globalisation.


You "believe" it, eh ?
Welcome to the New World Order, mate!
As was prophecied in book of Revelations, Chapter 13
Sit down (have yourself a pint or 2), read carefully and cross reference to what is now happening, as the end times approach.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 28
view profile
History
Brexit
Posted: 2/26/2016 1:36:13 AM
Yule
"Welcome to the New World Order, mate! As was prophecied in book of Revelations, Chapter 13 Sit down (have yourself a pint or 2), read carefully and cross reference to what is now happening, as the end times approach."

Is that the book where donald trump arrives and upsets the cozy wee applecart that the sherman political elite used to share? If the donald is the future then why all the wailing on the trump thread? Have a nice glass of carrot juice and calm down geezer.

What a sad indictment on shermanland below*...........

"The free-trade agreement with the US that David Cameron has spearheaded at the European Union is expected to be widely condemned this week as bad for workers' rights and the environment.
But critics say it will drive down European standards of wages and employment rights to US levels and erode environmental standards*. Activists are especially concerned by proposals to allow multinationals to sue countries in international arbitration courts, bypassing the laws and policies of democratically elected governments.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/david-camerons-trade-deal-with-america-outrages-critics-9587168.html

At least some of the unions in the uk have seen through the brussels nightmare. Do yous shermans and canucks remember unions? They fought for years to attain workers a decent standard of living. But of course as yule pointed out this is the new world order where exploitation of labour is apparently a good thing in his brave new world..........

"The vision of a social Europe raising living standards and building the economies of new member states has lost its way. In truth it has been diverted by business interests over working families. The exploitation of people desperate for a better life has been growing in recent years.

Undercutting wage rates and denying local people jobs has become the visible signs of this corporate exploitation. It's wrong, it's outrageous and it is completely stoppable."
http://www.gmbyorkshire.org.uk eu_referendum_will_be_biggest_decision_in_a_generation_for_gmb_members_and_their_families
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 29
Brexit
Posted: 2/26/2016 3:37:43 AM
There is a difference between fear and self preservation. Fear is a buzzword to stop the conversation. Protecting you and yours is just common sense for people who like themselves.

#33- it is what happens when you cut and paste on the phone and start a new thread on the phone. Mea culpa.

Why the hate of Europe, yule? Something happen to you? Reminds me of how another posters fumes at religion and takes every opportunity to yell at it. What gives?
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 30
Brexit
Posted: 2/26/2016 6:10:58 AM
#35


Have a nice glass of carrot juice and calm down geezer.


sure, as you evaded all my questions, ...but carry on with your repetitious blather mate, I'm sure someone will listen.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 31
view profile
History
Brexit
Posted: 2/26/2016 8:17:37 AM
"I believe that the True Democracy that Switzerland has is the way forward.

"then yous should have gotten into the habit of minding your own business and keeping to yourselves as the Swiss have done!"

Can't disagree with that. Let nations sort out their own problems. It's none of our business.


"We were lied to about joining 'the common market'. What it's true aims were"

"why did heath lie? what did he have to gain?"

Heath was an ardent europhile.......

"Heath's style, when arguing his case for his great cause of Europe, or for anything else, was not, in fact, to argue at all. As Ziegler points out, he had no gift for exposition, because he was utterly uninterested in what others thought. This is why people felt cheated, and still do to this day, about the terms on which Heath took Britain into the EEC. He never took the British people into his confidence."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/charlesmoore/7842110/Ted-Heath-failed-both-as-a-man-and-a-politician.html

"Sir Edward Heath was so convinced of the benefits for Britain of joining the European Economic Community that he was prepared to lie about it. On the implications of our joining the then E.E.C. in 1972, he said: “There will be no loss of essential national sovereignty”. On a TV current affairs programme in 1990, he was asked if he had known that this statement was untrue at the time he said it. His notorious answer was “Of course, yes”"
http://freenations.net/the-political-record-of-edward-heath/

"These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified."

Below is the full quote from ted heath.........

"In 1972 Edward Heath said that the EU was only a COMMON MARKET. “There are some in this country who fear that going into Europe we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified."

Yet parliament seems to disagree somewhat.............

"Through successive Treaties, the policy areas in which the EU has responsibilities (competences) and legislative power have been gradually expanded.
As the 32-volume Balance of Competences Review assembled by the previous Government shows, membership of the EU influences the UK in varied and complex ways.

Concerns about loss of sovereignty, lack of accountability and ineffective governance have led both Labour and the Conservatives to propose reforming the EU to better reflect the UK’s interests.
http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/research/key-issues-parliament-2015/foreign-affairs/eu-membership/

"What did the UK lose that other members didn't lose?"

Just taking a guess here but i would imagine they lost the same as we did. As mentioned above.

"When challenged later as to why he lied he said ‘the British public are too stupid to be involved in governing themselves'"

"If this is true, then it would stand to reason that he hasn't been the only one to maintain this belief; since no one else that followed took any serious stance in withdrawing the UK out of it. I guess Charles DeGaulle had your interests in mind better than any of YOUR leaders when he voted "non" to UK membership!""

Hard to disagree with that either. The last elections the tories HAD to promise a referendum on europe because they feared ukip would eat into their vote. As it goes ukip ate into labours vote and the tories were as surprised as anyone else that they won.

"I believe that working folk are not there to be exploited for financial gain. I believe that a decent days work deserves a decent days pay. I believe that working folk deserve decent housing. I believe that working folk should have time to spend outwith working hours as socialising time. This does not happen under globalisation."

"You "believe" it, eh ? Welcome to the New World Order, mate! As was prophecied in book of Revelations, Chapter 13 Sit down (have yourself a pint or 2), read carefully and cross reference to what is now happening, as the end times approach."

If the end times approach then they approach. Doesn't bother me all that much. Cannae say i have ever read the book of revelations to be fair.

And yep i have 'beliefs'. Most folk have. Even you geezer.

As for blathering let he who is without guilt cast the first blather type thing.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 32
Brexit
Posted: 2/26/2016 6:41:37 PM
dee


Why the hate of Europe, yule?


No hate of Europ, just hold disdain for those who now wallow in self pity, yet feeling entitled to holding on to their ongoing world hegemony (that they've had for the past several centuries).

Europe orchestrated much of its own hardships!

The UK and EU relationship is a good example.
The Brits were begging (to France) on bended knee to be given membership in the Common Market since the late 60's.

They finally got in, and they come to find out that it was not cut out to be what they thought (or they thought that they would just reign over it) as they felt it would infringe on their dear sovereignty (as if they didn't know this was gonna be the case).

They whine about the "common market" morphing into the EU, and how they were not consulted

They blame their (then) leader who acted on their behalf because he felt that the Brits were "too stupid to be involved in governing themselves" yet those who followed (regardless of party) did little if anything to regain the dignity of the pple they are supposed to serve.

And as far as Scotland goes, it was given a GOLDEN opportunity to to lawfully secede from the UK, (and to create its own destiny apart from the EU) and they pissed it away; and yet you hear the likes of Vlad whining and wimpering about how the "elite" have done the common folks wrong; and commandeering it into the hands of the NWO, when in fact its the common folk in his land that allowed for this; by their sheep like mentality!

Thus, they reapeth what they sow!
 TrvstInKarma
Joined: 9/1/2015
Msg: 33
Brexit
Posted: 2/26/2016 8:27:40 PM

I'll point to the fact that Germany is physically crumbling. The infrastructure is shoddy at best and dangerous at worst, yet this country is, allegedly, powerful.


Huh?? Have you ever been in Germany? I'm from Germany, was just over there again 8 months ago. Shoddy infrastructure? Germany is more modern than the US and other European countries in many ways. The roads and bridges are in excellent condition, there are plenty of modern public transportation options, the bridges and buildings are in excellent condition. No bridges collapsing in GErmany, unlike in the US. Lots of goods being manufactured and exported. Please educate yourself or better yet, go visit a few major cities in Germany to see for yourself.
 TrvstInKarma
Joined: 9/1/2015
Msg: 34
Brexit
Posted: 2/26/2016 8:29:16 PM
See also this study here:

http://www.gtai.de/GTAI/Navigation/EN/Invest/Business-location-germany/Business-climate/infrastructure.html

Second best infrastructure IN THE WORLD.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 35
Brexit
Posted: 2/27/2016 12:45:28 AM

Please educate yourself or better yet, go visit a few major cities in Germany to see for yourself.

just prepare to defend yourself against the hordes of recent migrants - if a woman don't walk alone esp. in Cologne? if you don't wish to be pawed/attacked as were many on New Year's Eve?
was in Budapest last Sept. as thousands poured into the center esp. the main train station...not pleasant.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 36
view profile
History
Brexit
Posted: 2/27/2016 2:50:44 AM
Yule
"Thus, they reapeth what they sow!"

Here gadgie you wont hear me disagree with that. I was not old enough to vote in the original referendum. And I've already held my hands up and said the Scots bottled it. But things change. You talk about 'entitlement' a lot. Yes i do believe folk are entitled to a decent life. Yes i do believe folk are entitled to health care. We pay taxes and insurance to the state therefore yes we are entitled to get something back.

Over the other side of the pond you have folk fed up with the same old elitist shite. Then along comes trump and sanders. Just read the trump thread on here. Fvck me you talk about ME whining? Lol

Times they are a changing. We are ALL reaping what has been sown. Get our islands out of the eu and yous shermans stop starting wars. Cushty.


"August 22, 2015
UK unemployment, which is still as high as 1,850,000, is now starting to rise again. Combined with the jobs standstill, the lack of momentum in pay makes this the most worrying set of labour market figures for a long time. What is equally disturbing is that almost all the increase in employment since the 2008-9 crash has been accounted for by workers from the EU. Employment among EU citizens born outside the the UK has now risen above 2 million for the first time.

The latest figures point to falling demand for jobs, fewer hours being worked, and little or no evidence of a rise in pay.

The number of non-UK nationals working in Britain over the past year is recorded as having increased by 257,000 to 3.1 million, whilst over the same period the number of working UK nationals rose by only 84,000. But demand for labour fell during the spring, with the number employed 63,000 lower in the 3 months ending in June than in the first quarter of the year.

In that first quarter employment among UK nationals fell by 146,000 while over the same period employment among workers from overseas rose by 91,000. It also emerged that since 1997 the proportion of employment accounted for by non-UK nationals increased from 3.7% to 10.3%.

The turnaround in the labour market was expected to generate pressure for higher pay. That hasn’t happened. Regular gross pay for employees as a whole remained unchanged at £463 a week in June. However pay at the top continues to rise sharply.

The High Pay Centre has just released figures which show that the salary ratio between FTSE-100 chief executives and an average worker jumped from 160:1 in 2010 to no less than 183:1 last year. At the extreme Sir Martin Sorrell, chief executive of the advertising group WPP, took home £42.9 million (£825,000 per week), which works out at 810 times as much as the average WPP employee.

All of this is of course without reference to the quality of the jobs. We are seeing in both the UK and the eurozone the steady growth of ‘the precariat’. More than half the eurozone’s young workers are in temporary jobs, churning from one short-lived contract to the next.

The share of the eurozone’s 15-24 year old workers who are temps is the highest on record, a deeply disturbing 52%. It’s clear that the 2-tier labour market won’t go away without more incisive action. But for now the priority must be to tackle the ‘black legacy’ of long-term unemployment where Osborne repeatedly boasts success, yet is now already worsening from a total little short of 2 million."

http://www.michaelmeacher.info/weblog/2015/08/three-quarters-of-jobs-created-in-uk-went-to-workers-from-eu/
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 37
Brexit
Posted: 2/27/2016 6:23:05 AM
Vlad


Times they are a changing. We are ALL reaping what has been sown. Get our islands out of the eu and yous shermans stop starting wars. Cushty.


Geezer, you just don't get it!
You keep blathering up the same tripe over and over; but its far too late. Yous squandered your chances; yous didn't hold your leaders to task (the EU issue or about migrants) when times were merry, but yous complain now when it all looks grim. Its like complaining about the high crime rate in your neighborhood only after your house gets robbed!
Now you must sleep in the beds yous made for yee-selves.

Its all over mate! Brave-heart will never forgive yee!
Just get yourself a flock of sheep
go up to them there highlands as far high as you can
be sure to bring a barrel of your favorite elixir (it gets cold up there)
bring you a sheep dog (you'll need the company)
as well as few golf clubs and bagpipes; and throw away your telly & internet
Come down just to sell your wool & milk to the large global companies (at their rates of course).
and be glad for the few pence they throw at yee.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 38
Brexit
Posted: 2/27/2016 8:13:45 AM
You've really got this thing about Scottish independence. There are reasons to stay in the UK. Even the most ardent supporters of independence will grant that there are advantages. You seem to have gotten your education from a Mel Gibson movie. And you bring it up every time you engage with a Scot.

It's sort of embarrassing.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 39
view profile
History
Brexit
Posted: 2/27/2016 8:45:09 AM
"Geezer, you just don't get it!"
Just don't get what?

"You keep blathering up the same tripe over and over; but its far too late."

Poster on pof free dating site forum blathers shock. Read all about it. (also check donald trump thread to find the irony in that comment).


"Yous squandered your chances; yous didn't hold your leaders to task (the EU issue or about migrants) when times were merry, but yous complain now when it all looks grim."

Helllooooo Scotland calling Scotland calling. Which is why we have the chance now. As per the thread title that halftime started. Yes it IS grim. Hence the clamour to vote for brexit.


"Its like complaining about the high crime rate in your neighborhood only after your house gets robbed! Now you must sleep in the beds yous made for yee-selves."

Is it? Cannae see the resemblance like. Yee selves? C'mon geezer if in Edinburgh it's yirsels.


"Its all over mate! Brave-heart will never forgive yee!"

Why would an australian want to forgive me? Psst it's yi. Yee sounds more like a pirate as in aaarrr yule lad yee dont half be talking some bollocks.

"Just get yourself a flock of sheep go up to them there highlands as far high as you can"

Why go to the highlands? There are sheep in the lowlands where i stay. If you ever come here for a bit mutton molesting let me know and I'll get you a NSA date.

"be sure to bring a barrel of your favorite elixir (it gets cold up there) bring you a sheep dog (you'll need the company)"

A barrel????? **** me lol I've no heard that word for yonks. Ill no need the dug i can chat up the sheep.

"as well as few golf clubs and bagpipes; and throw away your telly & internet"

Why on earth would i play golf? Stupid game so it is. As for bagpipes, telly and t'interweb if they are no there then they are no there.

"Come down just to sell your wool & milk to the large global companies (at their rates of course). and be glad for the few pence they throw at yee."

Maybe your australian brave-heart could do the sheep shearing? And I'm no sure what type of sheep yous have but we don't get milk from ours mate. You going to buy then? You being a global capitalist like. And as long as it's no a few euros I'll be just sound as.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 40
Brexit
Posted: 2/27/2016 4:22:01 PM
Vlad


Yes it IS grim. Hence the clamour to vote for brexit.


why don't you make a small wager on that hope?
Maybe with 1 of your Pub mates who voted to keep Scotland in the UK!


Yee selves? C'mon geezer if in Edinburgh it's yirsels.


Yous gotta cut a New Yorker whose never been to "bonnie" Scotland a wee bit break, there vlad; I'm trying to learn your ways, as hard as it be for this Geezer!


Why would an australian want to forgive me?


Sir Willie Wallace was an Aussie???
But I'm he sure as HELL wishes he was; as he looks down (from the skies above) in bewilderment at his cowardly lot,
and probably agonizing in shame in front of his fellow defunct heroes up with him!


Psst it's yi.


Its a work in progress mate.
Maybe 1 day I can ride the subways in NYC speaking in Scottish with some UK geezer, so none will understand what we say!


Why on earth would i play golf? Stupid game so it is


Glad yi says it is, mate!
I happen to agree fully, and I turn on the golf channel on those nights when I no' can fall asleep! I pass out in seconds!


Maybe your australian brave-heart


Actually Gibson was born in the USA!
More specifically right here in New York! (Family moved to Aus at age 12, but never forgot his roots). Look it up!
So you should be glad that a Yank is advocating for yi!
Which is probably better than any of your PMs have been doing thus far!


And I'm no sure what type of sheep yous have but we don't get milk from ours mate.


Ahhh, them Englishers have shagged you, yet again mate! Selling yous bad sheep!
Next thing is they be making yous believe that cows don't have horns

And sheep shearing!!!!
Will now be done by undocumented migrants mate!
Bring down all your sheep and we'll have them sheared in a New York minute, lighting fast (doing the same work as any of yous, only faster and with way less pay!), except that we will reap all the savings, while yous get a meager pence!
That's just the capitalist in me talking! Its do or die!
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 41
Brexit
Posted: 2/28/2016 6:18:16 PM
^

but made the dotted line thing on Jan 1st 73... just a token signing


1973 is when they officially became a full member; they could have technically backed out anytime before that


Vlad's perspiration...


I wasn't talking about perspiration when I used the name 'sweaty'
Are you still hung over or are you just that dense?


You do no favours with personal attacks.


Umm, yes; as you call me a "blow hard" and "ditch diver"


Also, when did Wallace get a knighthood?


Gadgie,were you taught history when (or if) you went to school in merry ol' Glasgow?

Here is an excerpt from:

bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/wallace_william.shtml

"In May 1297, Wallace attacked the town of Lanark, killing the English sheriff and unrest quickly became full-blown rebellion. Men flocked to join Wallace and he began to drive the English out of Fife and Perthshire. In September 1297, Wallace defeated a much larger English force at the Battle of Stirling Bridge. This and subsequent military successes severely weakened the English hold on Scotland. Wallace then launched raids into England. In late 1297 or early 1298 he was KNIGHTED and appointed 'guardian of the kingdom' in the name of John Balliol, the deposed king of Scotland."

History Lesson: provided free of charge...and if this wrong, then go complain to the BBC!


He got hung, drawn and quartered.


by the very oppressors who he tried to free yous ingrates from!
 TrvstInKarma
Joined: 9/1/2015
Msg: 42
Brexit
Posted: 3/2/2016 8:46:18 PM
Despite its shiny façade, the German economy is crumbling at its core. That, at least, is how Marcel Fratzscher sees it. With the country's infrastructure becoming obsolete and companies preferring to invest abroad, the government advisor argues that German prosperity is faltering.

---

One man's opinion doesn't make it so. I believe the studies and being there myself a lot more. Many parts of the US look like Germany did in the 70s infrastructure wise.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 43
view profile
History
Brexit
Posted: 3/8/2016 9:13:40 AM
Any of you posters or readers on here who believe in democracy, one man one vote, freedom of speech and the hard fought for 'rights' of citizens MUST support brexit.
On 1 March, Brendan O’Neill spoke to the Brexit Society at Cambridge University. Here’s what he said..........


"Britain isn’t leaving the continent of Europe. That isn’t what we’re voting on. Folk might holiday in Spain, have friends in France, love Swedish TV dramas. Many, if not most, of them won’t be anti-European — they’re just anti-EU.

This is why we so often see the term Europhobic*. This word explicitly pathologises people’s dislike of the EU. It treats it almost as a mental illness: a phobia is an irrational fear.

The Guardian recently said that ordinary people’s Europhobia has been ‘pandered to and fed by Tory leaders’.This week, a writer for New Europe magazine listed ‘Europhobia’ alongside ‘xenophobia, nationalism, Islamophobia and racism’, as values that are ‘alien to our postwar European culture’.

See how casually criticism of the EU, opposition to the Brussels oligarchy, is reduced to a phobia, an ism, something which goes against the ideals of Europe itself. Because, to my mind, the EU and Europe are not even remotely the same thing. The EU is an ugly, illiberal, undemocratic blot on the wonderful continent of Europe. The EU is a stain on the best, most inspiring values of Europe and its peoples. It is the EU that is anti-Europe.

My argument for getting out of the EU is not a Little Englander one. It’s because the EU is detrimental to the whole of Europe, and particularly to two incredibly important values that European peoples have in various ways been fighting for for hundreds of years: democracy and liberty. The EU is anti-democratic and illiberal.

Supporters of the EU tell us it is an inspiring union of the European peoples. Nonsense. It is a union of European elites who want to avoid their peoples. The EU is the mechanism through which national governments outsource various powers and decision-making processes to distant, aloof, mostly unaccountable bodies like the European Commission and the European Court of Justice.

The true instinct behind the Brussels machine is not to bring Europe together. The EU’s fuel is not cosmopolitanism — it’s democracy-dodging.

From the outset, the EU has not been the embodiment of people’s will — it has been a struggle against people’s will. The 1992 Maastricht Treaty that founded the EU as we know it was only just approved by France and was rejected by Denmark. And of course, John Major’s Tory government refused to put it to a referendum. British people were co-opted into the EU without our explicit say-so.

Almost every time they have been asked about the EU, people in Europe have said ‘We don’t want it’. In Ireland in 2001, voters said No to the Nice Treaty. In 2005, the new EU Constitution was rejected by voters in France and Holland. EU bureaucrats then denounced the French and Dutch as ‘ignorant’ and ‘xenophobic’. One MEP said it was mad to subject something as important as the EU Constitution to the ‘lottery’ of public opinion.

The European Commission responded to this French and Dutch disobedience by renaming the EU Constitution the ‘Lisbon Treaty’, which EC vice-president Margot Wallstrom admitted was ‘essentially the same proposal as the old constitution’. Only this time people wouldn’t be asked to vote on it, because, in the words of Nicolas Sarkozy, ‘a referendum now would bring Europe into danger’. So democracy is dangerous; the people’s will is a threat to the EU project.

In 2008, the Irish were permitted to vote on the Lisbon Treaty. And they said No. They were slammed and defamed by Brussels bureaucrats and forced to vote again. Under the pressure of the EU’s economic blackmail, they said Yes second time round. The hostility of the EU to national sentiment and democratically elected governments can also be seen in its constant hectoring of the governments of Eastern Europe.

In 2006, the elected prime minister of Slovakia was instructed by Brussels to challenge political extremism in his country and repress certain political ways of thinking or risk being found in breach of EU regulations. In 2006, the prime minister of Poland was forced by Brussels to declare that his government was not homophobic or anti-Semitic and that it would not bring back the death penalty. In 2011, the EU pressured the Hungarian government to rethink its new constitution.

Actually the EU has nurtured divisions, primarily between the apparently civilised west of Europe and the allegedly dark, twisted east of Europe. The Iron Curtain is back, and the north-south divide is back, in a new, insidious way.

The Brussels oligarchy’s view of democracy as dangerous became most apparent in 2011. In that year it worked to impose technocratic governments in Greece and Italy and to import a gang of bankers and bureaucrats to Dublin to keep a watchful eye on the Irish government and its austerity measures. It rode roughshod over democracy, and effectively installed benign tyrannies.

Mario Monti, the unelected technocrat charged with running Italy on behalf of Brussels, actually boasted about the aloofness of his regime. This is what the EU and its lackeys really hate: politics, personality, debate, disagreement — the lifeblood of democracy. They far prefer the rule of experts, the coolness of technocrats.

And their fanboys in the media agree. In 2011, the Guardian published an article headlined ‘In defence of Europe’s technocrats’. It argued that ‘temporary technocrat rule may well be… acceptable — perhaps necessary — at a time of crisis’. Here we have an explicit defence of the destruction of democracy; an open, unabashed argument for the rule of the unelected. And it comes, not from the far right or neo-fascists or other extremist groups that we’re constantly told pose a threat to European values, but from so-called liberals, from supposed EU cosmopolitans.

Some people argue that the EU is our best guard against the kind of tyranny Europe experienced in the 1930s and 40s. Under the cover of keeping at bay the tyrannies of the past, the EU constructs a new kind of tyranny.

The EU is the means through which politics can be done in a distant and post-democratic way. And to this end, at the very top of Brussels, there is the EC, a body that is emblematic of the EU’s agitation with democracy. This executive body, responsible for proposing EU legislation, is unelected. It has 28 members, one for each member state, who are nominated by the member states. You have no more power to get rid of this clique of commissioners than you have of walking on the Moon this evening. They are beyond your reach, yet they make laws that impact on your life. That is fundamentally contrary to democracy. It cuts against the basic democratic principle that we should consent to the institutions that rule us.

The EU doesn’t only trash democracy. It restricts liberty, too. This vast oligarchical entity is, unsurprisingly, hostile to the idea that people should be free to think and say what they please and to live their lives as they see fit so long as they don’t harm anyone else.

The EU does not trust you plebs. It continually passes rules or laws that seek to govern your minds and lives. It tells all national governments to restrict speech that incites hatred ‘based on race, sex, religion or nationality’, an explicit attack on freedom of speech. It has seriously discussed outlawing the denial not only of the Holocaust — which would be illiberal enough — but also of various other crimes against humanity. This would massively dent academic freedom and historical debate.

Its illiberalism is often mad and petty. It has banned chocolate candy cigarettes on the basis that they ‘appeal to minors’ and could be a gateway to real smoking. It has passed regulations designed to protect ‘vulnerable consumers’ — that is, stupid ordinary people — including by restricting the advertising of formula milk to new mums, who, in the EU’s eyes, should be breastfeeding and not arrogantly making their own parenting choices. It wants to ban diabetics from driving. It enforces controls on products that use a certain amount of wattage, in an attempt to make us uncaring idiots more eco-friendly, whether we want to be or not.

It goes against what it means to be European. For hundreds of years, through democratic upheavals, revolutions, struggles against arbitrary power and struggles for enlightenment, the peoples of Europe have sought to gain greater control over both their nations’ political affairs and their own lives. The EU undermines both of these things, both democracy and individual liberty. It is against the gains of history. It is against Europe. It is against us.

As someone who considers himself left-wing, I’m horrified that lefties are often at the forefront of defending this elitist institution. It is an historic black mark against the reputation of the left that it has been the chief cheerleader of an institution that undoes so many of the great gains of past radicals and progressives.

We must leave the EU, in order to start the process of recovering our democratic clout. But we must do more than that: we must also encourage and offer solidarity to other European peoples who want to leave. We must fight with them, alongside them, and create a new and real unity across Europe: a union not of elites who distrust the people, but of peoples who have had more than they can take of the elites.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/for-europe-against-the-eu/18102#.Vt7_Euqnxcu

* Yes folks the european union now has it's own phobia lol
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 44
Brexit
Posted: 3/8/2016 11:14:42 AM
It seems that the u s a encouraged the EU to weaken strong countries. Same reason that it encourages balkinization in other parts of Europe, the FSU and the world.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 45
Brexit
Posted: 3/8/2016 1:57:26 PM
Not everything is about the US.

Europe had been devastated by two horrible wars in succession. There were pretty strong reasons to want to tie the fortunes of all the European nations together. Just sayin'.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 46
view profile
History
Brexit
Posted: 3/9/2016 5:47:07 AM
Eeee it's grim oop north. I sometimes sympathise with folk in englandshire. With the tories and labour both being london centric political parties and catering to the metropolitan elites and high finance, ordinary working class folk outwith the southeast of englandshire get a raw deal.

With the cheap influx of exploited labour from eastern europe driving wages down and causing untold havoc to the nhs, schools, housing etc it is now time to dump the eu and the metropolitan elite political parties. I have posted before about how the metropolitan political elite and the bosses love the eu. Loads of cheap labour to be exploited.

This below is from the liberal grauniad which is surprising because they champion the metro elites, the eu and mass migration.........



"The government has admitted that 97% of the staff driving George Osborne’s “northern powerhouse” work in London, which for anyone unfamiliar with British geography is in the south-east of the country. This is probably why the northern powerhouse has failed to materialise, despite the chancellor’s promise several years ago.

The north of England isn’t getting any more powerful. In fact, according to the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, 10 of the 12 poorest towns in the country are in the north. The first southern location to make the list is in 24th place.

The problem of the north/south divide is self-evident – especially to northerners. The north feels about as far away from Westminster as you could possibly imagine.

The job market is terrible*. Town centres are dominated by boarded-up shops. There’s a distinct lack of both emotional and financial investment in anywhere further up than Leicester. Industrial towns died when the coal mines shut and never got the shock of life they needed to come back. People still live there, they still exist. Just forgotten about.

It is all quite demoralising for any young person trying to start a life, get a job, think about a future. A message rings out loud and clear that Westminster doesn’t care about the north, or the people in it."
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/09/grim-north-george-osborne-northern-powerhouse


"London gets 24 times as much spent on infrastructure per resident than north-east England"
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/aug/07/london-gets-24-times-as-much-infrastructure-north-east-england

* if the 'jobs market is terrible' then how the hell can we absorb 350,000 migrants every year? All looking for work and housing, prepared to work for a pittance, all needing medical care and in some cases school places for bairns?

Halftime
"Europe had been devastated by two horrible wars in succession. There were pretty strong reasons to want to tie the fortunes of all the European nations together. Just sayin'."

True but the eu has turned into an unelected, big business led, undemocratic nightmare. Whilst the eu champion ttip, whilst brussels wets it's elitist knickers GERMAN judges, not eu unelected judges but GERMAN CITIZENS who are judges have declared part of ttip as illegal.

The common market was set up for european nations to trade easier. Not to remove citizens democratic rights.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 47
view profile
History
Brexit
Posted: 4/7/2016 9:33:43 PM
This below is part of the reason folk get disillusioned with politics. The folk who are going to lose their jobs have been shafted and sold down the river. The uk has virtually no heavy industries left. The tory government are doing all they can to make sure the jobs go. Labour could do nothing if they were in power due to eu regulations.

No business can sustain the losses that tata are suffering. Personally i would re nationalise all our service and heavy industrial works (or whats left of them). We the electorate COULD kick our government out. But we cannot kick out the eu run from brussels. Well not until brexit.

This quote below sums the out of touch elitist politicians up........

"Ms. Soubry, while emphasizing the government’s desire to save Port Talbot, cautioned that there was a limit to what the government could do. “We have to be very careful because we have these state aid rules, which have been established for well over 50 years,” she told the BBC."

State aid rules which have been established for over 50 years? Well fvckin change them you stupid bint. These are real folk with real lives. In already depressed areas of the uk. And what 'limit' can the government go to? Still we have free movement of labour. Perhaps the 15,000 made redundant can go en masse to germany. After all they welcomed the worlds poor.

And to add insult to injury our government are spending £9 million on a glossy brochure telling us to vote stay in the eu referendum. Every household is getting one. Bet the folks awaiting the axe at tata steel will be overjoyed to receive that crap.

Time for brexit.........



"Tata Steel Plans to Sell British Plants, Threatening 15,000 Jobs

LONDON — Prime Minister David Cameron faced a new economic and political challenge on Wednesday after the Indian owner of much of Britain’s steel industry said it could no longer swallow the large losses being generated by its plants and would try to sell them.

The owner of the plants, Tata Steel, has been squeezed by cheap imports of Chinese steel into Europe, and its announcement suggested that if no buyer could be found it would consider closing them, endangering at least 15,000 jobs.

The British steel industry’s woes have been caused in part by the European Union’s inability to agree on higher tariffs on Chinese steel, making the fate of the Tata plants another flash point in Mr. Cameron’s campaign to persuade his country to vote to remain in the bloc in a referendum on June 23.

The news struck particularly hard at Britain’s largest steel plant, the Port Talbot works in Wales, which has been the heart of that community since 1901.

With 7,000 jobs at stake in Port Talbot, Mr. Cameron’s government is considering “all options” to save the plant, Anna Soubry, the cabinet minister for business, said on Wednesday. Those options include government support and subsidy, a highly unusual stance for a Conservative government.

But the European Union has regulations governing the tariffs that can be applied on imports and on the amount of state aid that governments can provide to national industries.

Ms. Soubry, while emphasizing the government’s desire to save Port Talbot, cautioned that there was a limit to what the government could do. “We have to be very careful because we have these state aid rules, which have been established for well over 50 years,” she told the BBC.

“Steelworkers and their families will be desperately worried about the uncertainty,” Mr. Corbyn wrote to Mr. Cameron in a letter made public by the Labour Party. “The government is in disarray over what action to take.”

India and the United States have imposed significantly higher tariffs on the importation of Chinese steel, but the European Union has not done so because all 28 member nations have not been able to agree — Britain among them.

It is not clear whether Britain would seek higher tariffs if it were to leave the European Union, but the British news media, which tends to be critical of the European Union, has blamed Brussels for preventing Britain from taking greater steps to protect the industry.

Tata has invested in Port Talbot and earlier in smaller plants in Scunthorpe, but has lost some 2 billion pounds — about $2.9 billion — over the last five years, and could not justify the continuing losses, Tata officials said. The company is seeking to sell its British assets, as it is already doing with Scunthorpe, but that may take many months, even if successful. Tata employs at least 15,000 people in Britain, all of whose jobs would be at risk, with 25,000 more jobs in the industry’s supply chain.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/31/world/europe/steel-maker-plans-to-sell-british-plants-threatening-15000-jobs.html
 Onyx49
Joined: 3/6/2016
Msg: 48
Brexit
Posted: 4/8/2016 3:54:10 AM
The EU, tried to Unite the different countries in Europe...so far it doesn't seem to have worked out, Greece went broke a year ago...other countries are during bad, Brussels seems to not be able to resolve their issue with terrorists, and nobody in the EU, is helping them.

This is what's pissing me off...the EU...is one nation, and should be acting as such...not like they are heading to a Civil War....
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 49
view profile
History
Brexit
Posted: 4/8/2016 5:11:28 AM
Yosemite
The eu is a beaurocratic nightmare. Unelected officials tell governments what to do. If Brussels does not like the politicians citizens want then Brussels removes them.
Just look at who is backing the remain camp. All major banks and financial institutes. All the sherman banks like jp Morgan, goldman sachs, the rodent George soros, virtually every major capitalist institution.
It's about money. Nothing to do with bringing nations closer. The schengen agreement. Free movement of labour. Yep because poor East Europeans will work for a pittance.
The article below is from the labour party in house journal the new Statesman. Forward a few years labour are now pro eu.
The eu is undemocratic, unloved and unwanted. The cloggies just gave Brussels a shoeing. Good.
Looking after capitalists and throwing the odd bone to citizens is not democratic in my eyes.


"If democratically elected leaders do not satisfy the markets, the IMF and the European Commission, they are now, in effect, summarily dismissed, without any reference to the wishes of the people.
The unsubtle message coming out of Greece and Brussels is that international bodies believe that democratic governments have failed to tackle the economic crisis and should be replaced with more reliable (and controllable) technocratic governments.
Rule by technocrats has replaced rule by the people - with unelected, economically orthodox international bodies like the European Commission and the IMF working with unelected technocrats now heading up national governments to implement tough austerity measures that have never received public backing.
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/11/european-greece-technocratsbacking
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 50
Brexit
Posted: 4/8/2016 8:28:43 PM
^


The eu is a beaurocratic nightmare.


Why don't you quit yapping & blathering about how bad the EU is, and just vote yourself out of it, and be done with it once and for all! And if the majority vote to stay in, then move to another country that isn't part of the EU, otherwise you are just another whinny hypocrite.


It's about money. Nothing to do with bringing nations closer.


WTF did you think it was to begin with, if it wasn't about money? Did you think it would be a love fest?
Sure its about money, and there are some nations who have made the EU work in their favor; Bully for them!
But for most of yous useless Gadgies, it won't matter whether you are in the EU or not, as your lack of desire to better yourselves, will keep yous in misery regardless of how it turns out!
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Brexit