Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Will Israel Strike Iran First?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 101
Will Israel Strike Iran First?Page 5 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
Muslims are conducting the vast majority of suicide bombings in the world. This is fact. This is truth.
More truth/fact- Muslim crime in Germany increased by 79% in 2015.

Only an ostrich would argue otherwise. (opinion)

What you think the suicide bombings or crime mean or what we should do about them is opinion.

Why they are doing it is conjecture unless you talked to them before they blew themselves u or they left a written statement.

Maybe you are talking about some new agey "feelings as truth,"

Again, that is opinion or they are feelings. Feelings are real but they are not truth. How you feel abut something is a fact. Yet, those feelings are not fact.

The truth is that you feel sad. The situation that you feel sad about is not sad as a fact.

There are the facts of Israel's history - decisions, dates, times, actions, people involved- and then there is what you think about that.

At some point Collette seemed to concede that the factual history was questionable but basically stated that she and Israelis don't care because they view it as trying to survive. I get that (feelings)

Whether a person loves or hates Israel, the facts and truth remain the same. REASONS or feelings about them may differ.
Some people express those FEELINGS through derision, foul language or smiley faces.

A good example is the Cosby situation.

FACT - In one case, a woman went to his room, had some sort of sexual encounter with him, went back to him for additional sexual encounters.

Your opinion and her opinion may be that it was not consensual. Others may have the opinion that it was consensual.
A jury will be given the facts and make a determination.
 Bigguysal
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 102
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 5:42:04 AM
Chomsky is a brilliant guy but an extreme leftist railing at the power structures of the world from the safety and security of academia. He is probably mentally ill, or at the least way out there, but he has recognized the viability of a two state solution
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 103
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 7:07:29 AM

I would like to thank you for taking the time and effort you put forth that is so very evident in your post to me. :)

KJ, you're most welcome.
It's a pleasure to have a proper debate, with someone who doesn't resort to insults, simply becaue we disagree on some issues.

It was the very self evident biased nature of the link,

I don't see how it could be considered biased, other than for it's inherent assumption that there is such a person as a "jew", which I happen to disagree with. -In the same way that I disagree that there is any such thing as a "white" person, or a "black" person.
IMO such fictitious "definitions" carry no "privileges", expectations, or "rights". (Other than "human" rights, which are 'universal', in that there is only ONE 'category'.) Their associated stereotypes are often (IMO) 'self-inflicted'.
The majority of people still self-identify by "racial" categorisations.
I realise that many people will struggle with my views on this, and that I'm in an extreme minority, for holding them.
It's simply not worth trying to explain them, to many people.

Consequently, the premise of establishing ANY states, based on these self-ascribed (or otherwise) but nonetheless, fictitious categorisations, seem illogical, to me.

I'm dealing purely with the facts. The well-documented, historical facts.
Which brings me to this:
Higher Ground:

Jo van,

Following link is pretty impressive history of Palestine and its occupation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine

I've read it, it's not bad, and confirms what it said in the other site.
The start summary covers all of history, and appears to 'gloss-over' what I think is the most relevant part; the time between 1890, the invention of "zionism", and 1948, and the Arab's opposition.
But later on, from the heading "Modern Era", it goes into more detail from that period.

Remember the link above said there were many of the Jewish faith already in Palestine, before Israel was formed.

From that link:

The 1922 census of Palestine recorded the population of Palestine as 757,000, of which 78% were Muslims, 11% were Jews, 10% were Christians and 1% were Druze.

By 1922, there had already been significant immigration, and land purchases, against the wishes of the existing, and still then majority.
There was nothing "democratic" about this.
The "British Mandate" was as oppressive a regime as any of Britain's other colonies.
The "natives" were made to do as they were told.
The link goes on to say:

In the early years of the Mandate, Jewish immigration to Palestine was quite substantial. In April 1920, violent Arab disturbances against the Jews in Jerusalem occurred, which came to be known as the 1920 Palestine riots. The riots followed rising tensions in Arab-Jewish relations over the implications of Zionist immigration. The British military administration's erratic response failed to contain the rioting, which continued for four days. As a result of the events, trust among the British, Jews, and Arabs eroded. One consequence was that the Jewish community increased moves towards an autonomous infrastructure and security apparatus parallel to that of the British administration.

Note that this dissent, and these riots, happened two years before the 1922 census figures above, and the article itself acknowledges that immigration was "quite substantial".

The Balfour Declaration was really the "starting pistol", the "green light" for mass immigration, and an eventual (And stated as that, in documentation) takeover of all of Palestine, and the removal of ALL Arabs.

WHY should the Arabs HAVE to agree, to giving away more than half of their lands, to immigrants?
We've seen how people HERE react, to just a few thousand.

Imagine being forced to to go from being the majority, in your own country, to becoming a minority, in the space of a few years.

According to Ottoman statistics studied by Justin McCarthy,[26] the population of Palestine in the early 19th century was 350,000, in 1860 it was 411,000 and in 1900 about 600,000 of which 94% were Arabs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine
Then:

The Jewish population reached 450,000 by 1940.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah
To:

According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, as of May 2006, of Israel's 7 million people, 77% were Jews, 18.5% Arabs, and 4.3% "others"


If you don't subscribe to religions, or "gods", (like me) this just seems like madness. A recipe for disaster.
And that's pretty much what it's been, ever since.

IMO the rise if extreme "islam" is partly caused by the "west's" imposition, and continuing military and financial support, for Israel.
In summary:
"WE" ("The Western, "Judeo-Christian countries)have imposed a "jewish" state, by force, on a "muslim" population.
The "people-who-think-that-they're-jews" fought and died to recreate a "biblical" Israel, some 2,000 years after it had last (allegedly) existed.
Why should we imagine that the Arab's attention-span, will be any shorter?
-After all, they share the same genes. (Allegedly)

Marilyn.

AS far as "character" goes; what does it say about a person's character, if they previously got so hysterical,
they were inviting me to "come over here" and "get shot", and that they were looking forward to watching such violence, while eating popcorn.?

Or someone who's so flakey, that they hide their identity behind false profiles, of varying genders?
Eh "Bigguymarilyn"?
-And she now says that Chomsky's "mentally ill"??!!
Hilarious!

I prefer to focus on the contents of posts, rather than speculating about the poster's "character".
Just like before, "bigguymarilyn's" "debating tactics" consist purely of "ad hominem", because she has no contradictory facts, with which to challenge the irrefutable evidence, provided by other posters.
No substance.

I can't wait for you to start calling me names, again.
I note that you're already misspelling my name, in the same particular way, that nobody else has ever done!
You're not very clever at "hiding", are you??


Happy Sunday
 NotGorshkovAgain
Joined: 4/29/2009
Msg: 104
view profile
History
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 9:01:13 AM
@mungojoe:


This assumption of yours... that "character" determines whether truth is worthy of consideration and respect is exactly the opposite of "truth is truth regardless of who speaks it"

Not quite. Yes, truth is truth - that is inviolate.
However what you're missing is this: the character of the speaker comes into play when evaluating the speaker's opinion - the likelihood that said opinion *is* the truth or not.

Example: An MD does some tests and tells me I'm pregnant (let's pretend for the sake of argument that I'm not much of a man, and rather girly). By virtue of his medical degree, he can be considered to be an expert, and his opinion is very likely to be correct. I'll therefore place a high degree of confidence in his opinion, and rate it as very likely to be correct, or the "truth".

Then I talk to a 10 year old who looks at my belly, points and exclaims, "You're pregnant!". He's a kid, had no knowledge of medicine or biology, and is totally unaware of the amount of money I've spent on beer to get this belly. I'll probably place a very LOW degreee of confidence that his opinion is correct.

So no, the speaker's character (who he/she is, their expertise on the topic, their own biases) does not change the truthfulness of the opinion - but it is basic in determining the LIKELIHOOD of said opinion being the truth.
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 105
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 9:07:44 AM
"I don't see how it could be considered biased, other than for it's inherent assumption that there is such a person as a "jew", which I happen to disagree with."


Oh Mr. Jovan.....really? Even if one steps beyond the title "If Americans Knew" into the very first paragraph to this:

"Our position, however, is that the Palestinians have a real grievance: their homeland for over a thousand years was taken, without their consent and mostly by force, during the creation of the state of Israel. And all subsequent crimes — on both sides — inevitably follow from this original injustice."


You cannot see the bias?

I am not the most intelligent person.... average at best....but even to me it is quite clear. I don't even need to read further to know that all following information will attempt to support and persuade what the author poprostions as the "original injustice". Is that not the goal of this particular writing style? This is not solely an informational piece but a persuasive one as well.


Now....there may be some truths based on facts that it sets forth....but it is not a study of objectivety. At least not to my limited knowledge. :)
 Bigguysal
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 106
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 9:15:55 AM
Mr jovian, in your history you forgot a few material facts, and this is where bad character comes in because these facts are the core of the issue:

1) Israel was created legally by the United Nations in the partition of desert that was not a country. Truman immediately recognized the country with others to follow.

2) The Arabs have gone to war repeatedly since then and have lost territory as a result.

3) From the desert rose a true country, a democracy, with roads, universities, hospitals, a democratically elected government, and a highly advanced scientifically oriented society

4) The Arabs have turned down every chance for peace since then. They have made their own bed and now they must sleep in it.

Sad state of affairs but that is the way the world works. Maybe some day the Arabs will get smart and will try to work out a peaceful solution. Meanwhile non Palestinian Arabs are beginning to see Israel as an Ally and friend, especially in the face of a Muslim scourge raising it's ugly head.

I suggest the Arabs apologize to israel for their actions over the years and sue for peace. I believe the Israelis would be very open to it.

Marilyn again? I will have to look and see who this person was.
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 107
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 9:49:51 AM
Who do you mean by 'Arabs'? Saudi Arabia? UAE? Iraq? Iran? Palestinians? Syrian? Yemen? Oman? Jordan? Syria? Libya?

Anyway, I think the next 'big explosion' in the middle east will be Iran vs. Saudi. This would put some interesting aspects on the U.S. - Russia relations as well as China - Russia relations.

I think Israel is playing a waiting game; bluff and bluster, flexing muscles but not doing anything more on the international stage.
 Bigguysal
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 108
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 9:56:55 AM
The bad character of Mr Jovian is nothing new of course:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimacy_of_IsraelLegitimacy rhetoric as antisemitism

Delegitimization is seen by some observers to be a double standard which separates Israel from other legitimate nations which have imperfect government. Natan Sharansky, head of the Jewish Agency, discussed a "3-D" test for determining new antisemitism. The third of the three D's is delegitimization. He explains "when Israel's fundamental right to exist is denied – alone among all peoples in the world – this too is anti-Semitism."[13]

Dore Gold, President of the Israeli Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, believes there is a "campaign to delegitimize Israel" based on three themes, a "denial of Israel's right to security", "portrayal of Israel as a criminal state", and "denial of Jewish history".[14] Elhanan Yakira, professor of philosophy at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, also considers portrayal of Israel as "criminal" and denial of Jewish history, specifically the Holocaust, to be key to a delegitimizing narrative.[15] Alan Dershowitz believes that other standard lines of argument include claims of Israel's "colonial" nature, a belief that statehood was not granted "legally", the apartheid analogy, and the necessity of a one-state solution.[16] According to Irwin Cotler, the lopsided number of anti-Israel resolutions passed by the UN is an example of delegitimization.[17]

Canadian Foreign Minister John Baird has characterized Israel’s delegitimization as the new antisemitism.[18]
 Bigguysal
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 109
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 10:00:25 AM
I agree ms. 2ufo. At this point best for israel to sit back and wait to see what comes down the pike. As I indicated, the Non-Palestinian Arabs are beginning to look to israel for an alliance against Iran.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 110
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 11:00:46 AM
KJ
Oh Mr. Jovan.....really? Even if one steps beyond the title "If Americans Knew" into the very first paragraph to this:

"Our position, however, is that the Palestinians have a real grievance: their homeland for over a thousand years was taken, without their consent and mostly by force, during the creation of the state of Israel. And all subsequent crimes — on both sides — inevitably follow from this original injustice."


You cannot see the bias?

No.
Just a succinct summary of what actually happened.
Read the history, anywhere, from any reputable source, and you'll see that's exactly what happened.
How would you summarise it, with a similar word-count?
WHY do you think the Arabs (or anyone else) should have accepted what was being asked of them?

According to the chart in the wiki page recommended by Higher Ground, not the site I gave you, between 1919 and 2000, there were 3.5 million "jewish" immigrants, into the country formerly known as Palestine.
A country with a previous population of less than a million Arabs.
How is my, or the people who collated the information at the site you read, criticism of that fact, "biased"?

Do you not think that ANY country having three times as many immigrants as there were in the original population, arriving, against their wishes, would object, or react, or fight back?
I'm trying to be objective, but to me, that sounds exactly like the sort of injustice talked about in "JATO's" first paragraph.
I genuinely can't see what I'm "missing" here.
Marilyn:


1) Israel was created legally by the United Nations in the partition of desert that was not a country. Truman immediately recognized the country with others to follow.

Seriously?


Any person of good character, for example, of intellect, will recognize the absolute and well known truth of the politicalization of the UN. When they don't, when they use it to their advantage, they are by definition disingenuous people of bad character, and they deserve to be treated as such.

Your "rules", so why not play by them?
You're still butt-hurt, from when Joe gave you a verbal kicking, about the UN.

In 1948, the UN, and the rest of the world were still on such a 'guilt-trip', recovering from the revelations of the nazi atrocities, the full extent of which, had only been revealed after Germany's surrender, and so shell-shocked by them, that if the "zionists" had insisted all pigeons were painted pink, the UN would have made it happen.
Ben Gurion knew this, and exploited it, in the most cynical of ways.
The views of the Palestinians were completely ignored.


2) The Arabs have gone to war repeatedly since then and have lost territory as a result.

According to the same UN., which you tried to use above, any country is entitled to defend itself, from hostile, occupying forces.
As Ben Gurion himself said, before 1939:

‘in our political argument abroad, we minimize Arab opposition to us,’ but he urged, ‘let us not ignore the truth among ourselves.’ The truth was that ‘politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country, while we are still outside’.



3) From the desert rose a true country, a democracy, with roads, universities, hospitals, a democratically elected government, and a highly advanced scientifically oriented society

Egypt has accomplished as much, without stealing land.
It's called progress. It has happened everywhere.


4) The Arabs have turned down every chance for peace since then. They have made their own bed and now they must sleep in it.

The "bed" is all Israel's own making.
And if they had any sort of honour, or conscience, then they wouldn't be able to sleep, at all.

They invaded another people's lands, filled it with "followers" of their own "special" brand of "woo", brutalised the peaceful, lawful inhabitants, killed any who opposed, bulldozed thousands of villages, and drove the entirely innocent occupants into the desert,
and now they whine; "why don't those people like us"?
It's truly pitiful.
I'm just glad that I don't have to live there.

 Bigguysal
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 111
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 11:40:59 AM
All irrelevant and immaterial Mr. Jovian. Only people of bad character attempt to dispute absolute facts. Whatever the reasons, even if we assume your lies were actually true...Israel was still legally created. It won the political game. Israel created an advanced, 21st century nation out of the desert as a result. Heck, it was an Israeli company who helped unlock the apple phone for the FBI. And now apple is struggling to find out why this Israeli company knew more about apple phones than apple lol.

Sorry if you can't handle the facts and I hope Ms Kj521 ultimately agrees that the supposed facts offered by people of bad character are not facts at all and do not deserve recognition or respect.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 112
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 12:06:03 PM
Yeah, we've had this conversation before Marilyn.
You haven't provided any facts.
As usual.

See, to me, a sure sign of a "bad character", or at least a 'truly messed-up' person, is someone who pretends to be the opposite gender, on a dating site forum.
Someone who is clearly unemployed, has plenty of time on her hands, and is lonely. (For obvious reasons )

If such a person can't handle the fact of their own gender, it's really no surprise that they can't handle the shameful facts of Israel's establishment.

How could anyone ever take the opinions of such a deluded person, seriously?
You've obviously got some 'issues', which need resolving..
It's really quite tragic.
I hope you get some help soon..
Best wishes, for a speedy recovery.
 Bigguysal
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 113
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 12:16:08 PM
More obfuscation, more deflection. more evidence of bad character. You keep proving my case over and over and over. This is why your words are meaningless and should be given 0 weight by anybody of intelligence and by anybody who wants to know the true facts.
 Onyx49
Joined: 3/6/2016
Msg: 114
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 12:26:05 PM
I never understand these...word for word, back and forth shtz slinging matches that keep happening with the same people...damn, this is why I never do it...in a face to face, you'd get punched in the mouth.
 Bigguysal
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 115
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 12:45:47 PM
I'm new here Mr Onyx. I'm known as Big Sal cause I'm a big guy, just a laid back Texan with an interest in history and fascinated how the Internet has become the home of so many revisionists, grifters and posers, not to mention a recruitment tool used by Isis. Mr. Jovian is just one of many, a not a very good one at that.
 Onyx49
Joined: 3/6/2016
Msg: 116
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 12:55:37 PM
Texas...well hell that explains your spunk...lol....I grew up there, and was just dreaming about eating at Fuddrucker's.
I was just in Houston for Rodeo...did a trail ride, ate lots of BBQ and drank lots of Ziegen.
Try not to enjoy the shtz storms here too much....
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 117
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 1:17:34 PM

So no, the speaker's character (who he/she is, their expertise on the topic, their own biases) does not change the truthfulness of the opinion - but it is basic in determining the LIKELIHOOD of said opinion being the truth.

Did you not notice that I made regular and frequent distinctions between "truth" and "opinion" in that exchange...?

"Truth" being the underlying facts on which the "opinion" is based... "opinion" being the "interpretation" of that "truth" or fact... that "truth" is always "truth" but that "opinion" isn't necessarily so... and that "character" applies to "opinion" but not "truth"...?

Example: An MD does some tests and tells me I'm pregnant (let's pretend for the sake of argument that I'm not much of a man, and rather girly).

Why do we have to pretend...? Just kidding...


More seriously, you do realize that your examples are conflating "acquired skill sets and knowledge" with the "good vs. bad character" at hand in the discussion...? Of course the medical opinion (or other professional opinion) of a trained doctor (or other trained professional) will carry more weight than that of a 5th grader (or other juvenile without training)... That has nothing to do with their "good character" or "bad character" but everything to do with training and education...

All irrelevant and immaterial Mr. Jovian. Only people of bad character attempt to dispute absolute facts.

Well, actually, I haven't seen you post much of anything in terms of "absolute facts" in this thread... 99% of your posts have been nothing more than your opinion of another's "character", but rather devoid of "absolute facts"...

Perhaps you would like to try your hand at that (the "absolute facts" part) for a bit, see where it goes...
 Bigguysal
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 118
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 1:42:09 PM
Of course Mr Mungo.

Fact: Israel was created legally by the UN, recognized first by the US, on desert land previously a part of the then defunct Ottoman Empire, and temporarily under the control of the British at the time. Four facts in one. Israel was also considered by jews their ancestral home, where their city of Jurasalem was built and destroyed. Two more facts. That's six absolute facts for you. Everything else is irrelevant, immaterial noise. The key fact being israel was created legally.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 119
view profile
History
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 2:28:34 PM

The "bed" is all Israel's own making.
And if they had any sort of honour, or conscience, then they wouldn't be able to sleep, at all.

They invaded another people's lands, filled it with "followers" of their own "special" brand of "woo", brutalised the peaceful, lawful inhabitants, killed any who opposed, bulldozed thousands of villages, and drove the entirely innocent occupants into the desert,
and now they whine; "why don't those people like us"?
It's truly pitiful.
I'm just glad that I don't have to live there.


Palestine wasn't founded until 1988. The flag of Mandatory Palestine, a state under British administration had the Star of David for its flag and all of its major institutions were Jewish. The Haavara Agreement meant that Jews could legally emigrate from Germany to Mandatory Palestine.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 120
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 3:29:12 PM

Fact: Israel was created legally by the UN, recognized first by the US, on desert land previously a part of the then defunct Ottoman Empire, and temporarily under the control of the British at the time.

Except... That isn't what is in dispute... What Jo van has disputed is "the official story" behind how that came to be...

Jo van's comments recognize that Israel was created by th UN, that the US recognized it, that the territory was once Ottoman-controlled, that the British subsequently controlled it under a League of Nations mandate... All of this is in the "story line" he presents, every bit of it, none of it denied...

But there is also a lot more than that simplistic "story line" you gave in your "absolute facts"... And you haven't offered even one word as evidence to dispute any of the "story line" he has asserted, only "absolute facts" which happen to corroborate his "story line"... Nothing but, "you have a bad character" for even daring to offer a fuller, more complete "story line"...

I'm waiting for some "absolute facts" which actually dispute Jo van's "story line"... Some "absolute facts" which actually dispute his assertion that there would be less support for Israel's current actions if the "full story" were more widely known...

All I've seen in that regard is "bad character" and "lies" without once ever offering anything, anything at all, in support of it...

How about some "absolute facts" which prove Jo van has told a lie, juxtaposed with that lie...?

Everything else is irrelevant, immaterial noise.

Hardly... especially given that the question Jo van raises ISN'T that Israel WASN'T created within an existing legal framework...
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 121
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 3:55:18 PM

The flag of Mandatory Palestine, a state under British administration had the Star of David for its flag

Oh horsesh!t... That claim holds about as much water as a sieve...

The ONLY place that lists such a "flag of Palestine" was in Le Petit Larousse Illustré... and no-one knows how, why or where they came up with that as a National Flag for Mandatory Palestine...

The only formally recognized flag for official use as "State flag" in Mandatory Palestine was the Union Jack and BY LAW no other flag, including the white/blue "Magen David" flag (Zionist flag), were permitted for official use as the State flag of Mandatory Palestine...

The "Magen David" (Zionist flag) couldn't even be used legally for non-official purposes if they were of a partisan purpose (e.g. during a demonstration in support of setting up a Jewish state)...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mandatory_Palestine

Why do you insist on this kind of nonsense deceit and dishonesty...?
 Bigguysal
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 122
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 4:11:56 PM
Well then Mr. Mungo, what is Mr. Jovian's point? If nobody is disputing the absolute fact of Israel's legal creation, and of course they cannot honestly do so, than why exactly is Mr. Jovian here? Certainly any person, any country has the right to fight to possess what is legally theirs? Can anybody really dispute this? All he can really offer is HIS opinion that Israel should not have been created . . . but it was. His opinion does not matter, does not change the reality on the ground.

Then of course he goes into diatribes of how unfair Israel was by winning its wars with the Arabs, and of course those opinions are based on lies . . but even if not . . . so what? Israel was fighting for its survival, its legal right, and won and has continued winning. Gosh . . . sorry if he and anybody else is all upset with the facts . . but facts remain facts nonetheless.

Any country has the right to fight for its survival. Can there truly be any legitimate dispute about this? So why is he here again? All Mr. Jovian is is another liar, a teller of falsehoods, a person of bad character. He is part of the revisionist history that any can find on the Web. The lies never cease when it comes to Israel. Are the lies about Israel and its creation really any different than the lies that are still used to this day claiming the Jews started World War 2 in Western Europe, that Hitler had no choice but to attack because the Jews left him no choice?

I don't get any of it. I never did. I learned long ago however that there are many people of bad character out there. Mr. Jovian is just one of them. Being a student of history teaches a person a lot about people, and oftentimes their inherent dishonesty. That is why not every purported truth out there need be given consideration.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 123
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 4:26:39 PM

why exactly is Mr. Jovian here? Certainly any person, any country has the right to fight to possess what is legally theirs?

Perhaps it has something to do with Israel taking what ISN'T legally theirs, as in, West Bank settlements, or even the Golan...

Perhaps it has something to do with the support Israel receives from the US that allows Israel to continue to take what ISN'T legally theirs, even though the US gov't holds the official position that Israel DOESN'T have a legal right to those lands...

And perhaps, Jo van would like those Americans who insist that the US intercede to aid Israel in avoiding the consequences of taking what ISN'T legally theirs to know "how they have been played" by the "official story"...

Don't you think... maybe...?
 Bigguysal
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 124
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 5:36:31 PM
No I don't think maybe. I think perhaps those are Mr. Mungo's positions. Mr. Mungo apparently does not believe in Israel's right for security. That of course is only an opinion, not a fact.

It appears to be Mr. Jovian's position that Israel is not a legitimate state and yet we all concede the absolute fact that Israel was created with the legal authority of the United Nations. So he does not make sense.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 125
Will Israel Strike Iran First?
Posted: 4/3/2016 5:55:22 PM

Mr. Mungo apparently does not believe in Israel's right for security.

Well now, if we want to get back into "character" again then I would think that we would have to seriously question YOUR "good character" given that you are now ascribing positions to me which I have not stated or implied...

It seems that "honesty" and "objectivity" are not elements of your "character"... I think many would find THAT to be a warning sign for "caution: bad character ahead"...
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Will Israel Strike Iran First?