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 dragonbytes
Joined: 9/15/2015
Msg: 101
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Importance of getting heigh?Page 5 of 51    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)

It turns out that most of the women who had their height listed as 5’11” and taller weren’t really that tall, and never intended to say that they were. They thought they were specifying the height of the men whom they wished to date. Yes, that is actually a feature over on Match, or at least it used to be. In addition to specifying an age rate for potential dates, you can also specify a height range.


It does illustrate one fact that I keep in mind.

Many people don't know what the heck they are doing when filling out profiles, searching computer data bases , using their smartphones or even writing clearly.

So I often have a large grain of salt when reading profiles, and always try to make sure what someone MSGs me is really what they intended to say.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 9/15/2015
Msg: 102
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Importance of getting heigh?
Posted: 4/25/2016 12:57:30 PM

It turns out that most of the women who had their height listed as 5’11” and taller weren’t really that tall, and never intended to say that they were. They thought they were specifying the height of the men whom they wished to date. Yes, that is actually a feature over on Match, or at least it used to be. In addition to specifying an age rate for potential dates, you can also specify a height range.


so was did you get a higher percentage of dates from those women, and if you did date a few, were their personalities noticeably different from other women?
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 103
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Importance of getting heigh?
Posted: 4/25/2016 1:26:49 PM
South: I should probably further clarify that this woman and I live in the same neighborhood and the restaurant she wanted to meet at was 5 minutes from my place and on the same street I take home every day, therefore showing up to a meeting I knew was almost certainly not going to happen was not any significant inconvenience. Had she wanted to meet in Clearwater or Sarasota (30-60 miles away) then there is a very good chance that I don’t go to the restaurant under the same circumstances – I probably would have actually called her and left a voice message if necessary before I made an hour long trek to meet somebody likely not to show up. That said, I’ve been stood up without any such warning as this a number of times after having to drive 45 minutes to an hour for the meeting. Just didn’t want to leave you with the impression that I put great effort into getting stood up in this particular situation. I would probably not have “jumped out the building” if the meeting was supposed to be almost anywhere else besides on my way home.

“Women will tease you and ask you questions to see if you're secure with yourself before they make an investment in you.”

I can’t recall an adult female ever teasing me about my height. The first time you mentioned this in the forums, I asked my best friend about it and she said she never teases guys she just met about a negative physical characteristic, such as height, weight, balding, disability or ethnicity (unless he’s also Hispanic), unless he brings it up first (it is EXTREMELY rare I bring up my height in a social environment conversation – POF forums is the only place that happens). She flirts a LOT and I’ve never seen her “neg” a guy over his appearance – his personality, oh, yeah, sure, but not his appearance. Does this work the other way around – do you “tease” women about their appearance to test their insecurities? Do you tell an overweight mother a “your momma’s so fat” joke to test her? I’m pretty sure when you claimed this before, several women shot you down on this – you are definitely not speaking for ALL women, or even a significant amount, I would suspect. Any woman who is deliberately being cruel about the appearance of some guy she just met to “test” him is not a woman I think I want to date, no matter how attractive she is or desperate I am. You know what I think about bullying behavior: they can burn in hell a thousand goddamn times over. And that’s why I’m not taking that particular advice: because it is worthless for the type of a woman I would want to date. Have fun with your teasing girlfriends.

“We're advising you to take the opportunities they're throwing at you to display some form of confidence instead of insecurity.”

That part of the text conversation went like this:
Redhead: How tall are you?
Hawking: 5’4”.
Redhead: (No response)

Where is the insecurity in my response? She asked a question of fact, I replied with exactly the answer she was looking for – no apologies for my height, no “woe is me,” no “what the hell do you want to know that for” – it was just a NUMBER that she asked for. You are out of your mind if you think that displayed some sort of “insecurity.”

I’m curious: why didn’t you debunk LA Good Guy’s post featuring “All women want a much taller guy”? You’re just going to hammer me in this thread?

“It turns out that most of the women who had their height listed as 5’11” and taller weren’t really that tall, and never intended to say that they were. They thought they were specifying the height of the men whom they wished to date.”

I don’t even know what to make of the fact that MOST of them said that, because I don’t see anything about POF’s instructions for that particular item that could possibly be that confusing. I would highly question the intelligence of those individuals. Now I have heard of women purposely “lying up” or listing their height with their heels on (there’s a whole thread dedicated to that one) in order to discourage short men from contacting them. Every so often I’ll come across a profile in which a short woman is complaining about all the short men contacting her. Who else are we supposed to contact? Unlike tall men, we have a lot less options, so I imagine we do descend on them in a very disproportionate amount.

“My take on that, she is being sarcastic and saying you aren't the guy she thought you were.”

She once previously deleted my contact info after I didn’t respond to one of her texts for what she apparently felt like was too long. When I finally sent her a response, she responded with “Who is this?!” that time, too. Apparently, it does not take much for her to delete your contact info. I’m not really sure the purpose in this since it’s not like that blocks your number and the result might (or obviously did) leave you confused.

“BTW, you don't know if you did put your height on the tinder profile, maybe you get the same results, and better long term results”

I used to put my height on other similar apps/sites at times just to see what would happen, which always was: no more matches. (This is similar to the POF experiment of changing my height to 6 feet and suddenly going from almost no responses to lots of responses.) Tinder’s a little different, though, because the profile text usually cannot be accessed without sliding the picture up – most men don’t bother whatsoever doing that, but I figured most women probably did, but my second best friend (whose Tinder misadventures I just discussed in the “any responses” thread) doesn’t – she just flies through clicking “Yes” and “No” (mostly “No”) based on the first picture just like I usually do. I had her slow down during one pass so I could see the men’s profile text and almost none had heights listed, and I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I’ve seen a woman’s height in her profile text on Tinder. Tinder is just introducing one pretty face to another and lets them sort out all the other details later. On the surface, that may make it seem rather inefficient but considering you don’t have to waste any time writing thousands of messages to women that don’t find you attractive, I would say it’s many times more efficient than POF.

"Your insistence that 'height' is to blame for your failure to launch? Not so much."

Well, I did say in the very post you're responding to: "As I myself have said before, if it was just height, then I’d just be somewhat disadvantaged, not starting on year 10 of a dateless streak." I am a perfect storm of negative dating characteristics. But I must ask for this particular situation -- what evidence is there that she stood me up for any reason other than my height?
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 104
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Importance of getting heigh?
Posted: 4/25/2016 1:29:49 PM
South: I should probably further clarify that this woman and I live in the same neighborhood and the restaurant she wanted to meet at was 5 minutes from my place and on the same street I take home every day, therefore showing up to a meeting I knew was almost certainly not going to happen was not any significant inconvenience. Had she wanted to meet in Clearwater or Sarasota (30-60 miles away) then there is a very good chance that I don’t go to the restaurant under the same circumstances – I probably would have actually called her and left a voice message if necessary before I made an hour long trek to meet somebody likely not to show up. That said, I’ve been stood up without any such warning as this a number of times after having to drive 45 minutes to an hour for the meeting. Just didn’t want to leave you with the impression that I put great effort into getting stood up in this particular situation. I would probably not have “jumped out the building” if the meeting was supposed to be almost anywhere else besides on my way home.

“Women will tease you and ask you questions to see if you're secure with yourself before they make an investment in you.”

I can’t recall an adult female ever teasing me about my height. The first time you mentioned this in the forums, I asked my best friend about it and she said she never teases guys she just met about a negative physical characteristic, such as height, weight, balding, disability or ethnicity (unless he’s also Hispanic), unless he brings it up first (it is EXTREMELY rare I bring up my height in a social environment conversation – POF forums is the only place that happens). She flirts a LOT and I’ve never seen her “neg” a guy over his appearance – his personality, oh, yeah, sure, but not his appearance. Does this work the other way around – do you “tease” women about their appearance to test their insecurities? Do you tell an overweight mother a “your momma’s so fat” joke to test her? I’m pretty sure when you claimed this before, several women shot you down on this – you are definitely not speaking for ALL women, or even a significant amount, I would suspect. Any woman who is deliberately being cruel about the appearance of some guy she just met to “test” him is not a woman I think I want to date, no matter how attractive she is or desperate I am. You know what I think about bullying behavior: they can burn in hell a thousand goddamn times over. And that’s why I’m not taking that particular advice: because it is worthless for the type of a woman I would want to date. Have fun with your teasing girlfriends.

“We're advising you to take the opportunities they're throwing at you to display some form of confidence instead of insecurity.”

That part of the text conversation went like this:
Redhead: How tall are you?
Hawking: 5’4”.
Redhead: (No response)

Where is the insecurity in my response? She asked a question of fact, I replied with exactly the answer she was looking for – no apologies for my height, no “woe is me,” no “what the hell do you want to know that for” – it was just a NUMBER that she asked for. You are out of your mind if you think that displayed some sort of “insecurity.”

I’m curious: why didn’t you debunk LA Good Guy’s post featuring “All women want a much taller guy”? You’re just going to hammer me in this thread?

“It turns out that most of the women who had their height listed as 5’11” and taller weren’t really that tall, and never intended to say that they were. They thought they were specifying the height of the men whom they wished to date.”

I don’t even know what to make of the fact that MOST of them said that, because I don’t see anything about POF’s instructions for that particular item that could possibly be that confusing. I would highly question the intelligence of those individuals. Now I have heard of women purposely “lying up” or listing their height with their heels on (there’s a whole thread dedicated to that one) in order to discourage short men from contacting them. Every so often I’ll come across a profile in which a short woman is complaining about all the short men contacting her. Who else are we supposed to contact? Unlike tall men, we have a lot less options, so I imagine we do descend on them in a very disproportionate amount.

“My take on that, she is being sarcastic and saying you aren't the guy she thought you were.”

She once previously deleted my contact info after I didn’t respond to one of her texts for what she apparently felt like was too long. When I finally sent her a response, she responded with “Who is this?!” that time, too. Apparently, it does not take much for her to delete your contact info. I’m not really sure the purpose in this since it’s not like that blocks your number and the result might (or obviously did) leave you confused.

“BTW, you don't know if you did put your height on the tinder profile, maybe you get the same results, and better long term results”

I used to put my height on other similar apps/sites at times just to see what would happen, which always was: no more matches. (This is similar to the POF experiment of changing my height to 6 feet and suddenly going from almost no responses to lots of responses -- this is the main reason why I believe those who claim my profile and pictures and approach are what are causing me to fail on traditional OLD sites and it has nothing to do with my height is a bunch of malarkey -- if my profile and pictures and approach were so bad, then the 6 foot version of me would fail spectacularly, too.) Tinder’s a little different, though, because the profile text usually cannot be accessed without sliding the picture up – most men don’t bother whatsoever doing that, but I figured most women probably did, but my second best friend (whose Tinder misadventures I just discussed in the “any responses” thread) doesn’t – she just flies through clicking “Yes” and “No” (mostly “No”) based on the first picture just like I usually do. I had her slow down during one pass so I could see the men’s profile text and almost none had heights listed, and I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I’ve seen a woman’s height in her profile text on Tinder. Tinder is just introducing one pretty face to another and lets them sort out all the other details later. On the surface, that may make it seem rather inefficient but considering you don’t have to waste any time writing thousands of messages to women that don’t find you attractive, I would say it’s many times more efficient than POF.

"Your insistence that 'height' is to blame for your failure to launch? Not so much."

Well, I did say in the very post you're responding to: "As I myself have said before, if it was just height, then I’d just be somewhat disadvantaged, not starting on year 10 of a dateless streak." I am a perfect storm of negative dating characteristics. But I must ask for this particular situation -- what evidence is there that she stood me up for any reason other than my height?
 dragonbytes
Joined: 9/15/2015
Msg: 105
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Importance of getting heigh?
Posted: 4/25/2016 2:02:16 PM

“We're advising you to take the opportunities they're throwing at you to display some form of confidence instead of insecurity.”

That part of the text conversation went like this:
Redhead: How tall are you?
Hawking: 5’4”.
Redhead: (No response)

Where is the insecurity in my response?



So I got really nervous about responding and procrastinated for a while until it was about 3 hours before we were supposed to meet and finally sent my height (5’4”) without any qualifiers or other information.


The long delay in responding was likely not typical of rest of your texts, and the very brief answer was also likely not typical. So I would have taken that as being insecure or not interested enough.

You indicated that in the past she deleted your contact because you responded slowly, and didn't appear to know who you right away. As in "who is this"?

I think she is a little too flaky for my taste, but apparently she is hyper about having quick responses and forgets easily who she was texting about. Maybe she has a lot of simultaneous text convos going on and it gets confusing.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 106
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Importance of getting heigh?
Posted: 4/25/2016 2:13:58 PM
"So I would have taken that as being insecure or not interested enough."

"Not interested enough," yes, possibly, but not "insecure." Furthermore, it actually only took me two hours to respond, which was nothing out of the ordinary for being at work -- she sometimes took several hours, too (she's a school teacher). The other time she deleted my contact info, it was about 24 hours between responses, mostly because I was having one hell of a day at work.

"Maybe she has a lot of simultaneous text convos going on and it gets confusing."

I've had this happen before with women from OLD -- after all, some of them get hundreds of messages a day, and some guys are bigger priorities than others. That may have been the case with her, but it didn't feel like it. She would text me first thing in the morning most days (I mean, like 6AM) with something like "How are you doing, Hawking -- hope you have a great day at work!" It felt like I was actually meaningful to her and she kept saying things like she couldn't wait to hear some of my filmmaking stories -- as in, out of nowhere, so she always remembered who she was talking to. Women that are juggling many men tend to forget or confuse details about me fairly frequently, and she never did.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 107
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Posted: 4/25/2016 2:58:29 PM

I can’t recall an adult female ever teasing me about my height. The first time you mentioned this in the forums, I asked my best friend about it and she said she never teases guys she just met about a negative physical characteristic, such as height, weight, balding, disability or ethnicity (unless he’s also Hispanic), unless he brings it up first (it is EXTREMELY rare I bring up my height in a social environment conversation – POF forums is the only place that happens). She flirts a LOT and I’ve never seen her “neg” a guy over his appearance – his personality, oh, yeah, sure, but not his appearance. Does this work the other way around – do you “tease” women about their appearance to test their insecurities? Do you tell an overweight mother a “your momma’s so fat” joke to test her? I’m pretty sure when you claimed this before, several women shot you down on this – you are definitely not speaking for ALL women, or even a significant amount, I would suspect. Any woman who is deliberately being cruel about the appearance of some guy she just met to “test” him is not a woman I think I want to date, no matter how attractive she is or desperate I am. You know what I think about bullying behavior: they can burn in hell a thousand goddamn times over. And that’s why I’m not taking that particular advice: because it is worthless for the type of a woman I would want to date. Have fun with your teasing girlfriends.


Neg doesn't mean negative comment. Playful teasing is a normal part of dating. Context is everything. It depends if you're meeting women at a club, on a website, going on a dinner date, talking to a girl at the mall, etc. Why would a man be testing a woman to see if they're secure with themselves? Human sexuality is designed in a way that women have to be more selective. You count any advice as "worthless" because it could require effort and a change of your terrible attitude.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 108
Importance of getting heigh?
Posted: 4/25/2016 3:03:29 PM
The deliberate "neg" is played out now, at least in major cities like NYC, LA, Vegas, etc., where the PUA gurus hold their "boot camps" and women at popular bars have had "the formula" used on them dozens if not hundreds of times..it can get quite mechanical in application for most guys.
VV
The point is, these guys take their "students" to the same places, encourage them to use the same techniques and tactics.
It appears you are a big believer in the power of the neg.
I don't see why anyone at all any good with women or with decent social skills would pay some dudes hundreds or maybe thousands of dollars to learn this stuff, that doesn't make sense to me..
VV
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 109
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Posted: 4/25/2016 3:05:04 PM

The deliberate "neg" is played out now, at least in major cities like NYC, LA, Vegas, etc., where the PUA gurus hold their "boot camps" and women at popular bars have had "the formula" used on them dozens if not hundreds of times..it can get quite mechanical in application for most guys.


I don't see why a person would need to use it often. That doesn't make sense.
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 110
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Posted: 4/25/2016 3:46:23 PM
I can forgive/forget height (with in reason).

I can't/won't forgive facial hair. It seems to be coming back into style with the young ones.

75% of the men my age grow hair on their face because it stopped growing on their heads.

Kill me now as far as dating goes.
 geekgrrrl
Joined: 1/28/2009
Msg: 111
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Importance of heigh?
Posted: 4/25/2016 7:23:28 PM
dragonbytes said
You are a blue eyed, Caucasian woman with aveage body type, average height, a bachelors degree and a very good job. (Note that average height and average body type is actually a good thing)

You don't appear to believe it, but you are in fact above average.


Thank you :)
 LJane_6
Joined: 6/10/2015
Msg: 112
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Importance of getting heigh?
Posted: 4/26/2016 12:39:20 AM
@Hawking: I’m not going to respond to your posts anymore, because as usual, you seem determined to focus on the things you disagree with or believe won’t work, rather than what is constructive or helpful. You say that this attitude doesn’t come across in your real-life interactions, but I can assure you it will seep in here and there. A lot of women are quite good at reading people. For what it's worth, I think Coma_White has made some good points in this thread.

Keep on keeping on, bro.
 Kodanshi
Joined: 9/19/2015
Msg: 113
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Importance of getting heigh?
Posted: 4/26/2016 5:14:01 AM
As a side note, let me say that it always strikes me as weird that it is acceptable for women to want men of a certain height, but men specifying a preference for a certain amount of skinniness is frowned upon. Despite the fact that a fat person can lose weight, but a short adult can't grow any taller.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 9/15/2015
Msg: 114
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Posted: 4/26/2016 5:26:36 AM
Kodanshi You are one of only 3 short men on here.

So what has your experience been with dating? It is difficult, have you found dates from POF? Do you get rejected because of your height?

(Just call me Lot. I thought maybe I could find 3 short men with positive dating experiences, I gave up long ago trying to find 10.)
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 115
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Posted: 4/26/2016 5:33:53 AM
Coma: Again, no adult female has ever teased me about my height, so how can your “advice” not be worthless? Normal women do not do that, unless they’re on stage at a Comedy Central Roast. I’ll tell you what: the first time an adult female teases me about my height, I will react in the exact manner you have suggested. But it’s NEVER going to happen. Because normal women don’t do that! Maybe in an established relationship (though I have no memory of my girlfriend ever teasing me about anything physical), but this thread has nothing to do with that – it’s about initial contact and first meetings. I don’t see how it applies to the situation I described at all, since she never teased me once about anything. You basically just randomly threw that into this debate to provoke me.

As for your other piece of “advice” in this thread, I’m still waiting for a woman to tell us she would go from refusing to date a short man to agreeing to date a short man because he makes a joke about his height. Especially under the actual real life circumstances I’d described.

The one sorta advice you gave that I agree with was: “Online game is frustrating and everyone gets flake outs, so focus on networking in real life, building your social circle and being active in your community.” But the problem with you telling me that is that I’m already doing all that. Didn’t you see my collage pictures when I had them up? I am in no way this social misanthrope you guys are claiming – I have lots of friends, a vast social circle and I’m very active in my community. I come here to the forums to enhance my debating skills, since that is my real life job – to debate people, research our competitors’ claims against us and put us in a better position.

Anyway, certainly it’s been proven without much doubt (not even you can deny this since you just suggested it in that line I quoted) that online dating has a strong bias against short men, so in general we are better off using real life dating methods, but unfortunately once you get to a certain age, the amount of single (and especially childless and normal) people close to your age is vastly reduced. I meet many new people every year but very rarely do I meet single women in their 30s or early 40s, and the ones I do meet usually are divorced with tons of baggage. Unfortunately, OLD is, at this age, by far the best method of finding single women interested in dating (apparently a better idea than using hobbies to meet them! See: https://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts16522077.aspx), so I have to deal with it, bias and frustration and all. And then come here and complain about it to start more debates.

“I’m not going to respond to your posts anymore”

Another strong debating partner bites the dust. :( You were one of my most worthy adversaries. Good luck.
 Kodanshi
Joined: 9/19/2015
Msg: 116
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Posted: 4/26/2016 6:49:41 AM

Kodanshi You are one of only 3 short men on here.

So what has your experience been with dating? It is difficult, have you found dates from POF? Do you get rejected because of your height?


I've tried a variety of personal styles and profiles. I usually garner interest with my messages: they receive my messages, then some time afterwards they check out my profile.

...and never reply.

The rare ones who do reply always mention they want someone of a certain height and over.

I think for people like us, face-to-face 'dating' is more applicable than OLD. I've certainly never gotten any luck in all my years with PoF. Then again, I'm not just short - I'm also 'exotically good-looking', so my ugliness might have something to do with it as well!

:-Þ
 Inner_Gorilla
Joined: 12/3/2015
Msg: 117
Importance of getting heigh?
Posted: 4/26/2016 6:51:41 AM

you seem determined to focus on the things you disagree with or believe won’t work, rather than what is constructive or helpful.


LJane, I agree with you completely. The problem with Halkings is exactly the theme of a book I am reading right now about mindset. There are two types of mindsets, the FIXED mindset and the GROWTH mindset. The fixed mindset believes in having gifts like intelligence, being a natural, that you have it or you don't, and nothing you can do will change that. Growth mindset are people that believe that if you don't know something, you learn it. If you fail at something, you get up and try again and give it a different spin. Fixed mindset people believe in genius, however they are deathly afraid of failure or anything that will deem them less intelligent, so they give up, or they set their minds that their outcome will always be X. In Halkings case, even though he had at least a relationship with one woman, he says that more than likely he will be single for the rest of his life. You can almost hear the whisper of the word PERIOD after that.
People with the Growth mindset realize that nothing is in stone. That every statistic out there can be overturned, overcome and render it meaningless. They not only perceive but sometimes have blind faith into their pursuits. This is not hearsay, but a fact, a fact that most successful entrepreneurs will tell you, or that tried something in sports, in life and against all odds they succeeded.
 Kodanshi
Joined: 9/19/2015
Msg: 118
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Posted: 4/26/2016 6:59:42 AM
^ That's all very well, but how do you switch from the negative mindset to the positive one? Any helpful tips in your book about that? Or is it simply a case of 'just do it', and other hackneyed, contrived platitudes?
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 119
Don't look down on it, maaaan
Posted: 4/26/2016 7:38:35 AM
the mindset changes whenever the experience changes. Like they teach in Sunday School, there is Faith, and there is Fact. You can believe A leads to B if you've seen it happen before. Otherwise, brother, you must have faith. Or you can get prescribed some happy pills. It all reminds me of the joke about how its like oxygen....if we were getting the attention, then the rest of it all might not be a big deal, but since we can't even get a nibble on the hook, all we think about is not getting even a nibble.

sometimes, sales (of any product) is a numbers game--you just gotta keep plugging away. Or get into another line of work.
 flman2015
Joined: 10/3/2015
Msg: 120
Importance of height
Posted: 4/26/2016 7:50:53 AM
@hawking



Another strong debating partner bites the dust. :( You were one of my most worthy adversaries.


I am not going to enter into a debate with you... it's fairly obvious that you are going to pound on your height being 5'4" until whoever is debating with you gets tired of reading the same old thing spun a thousand different ways.

That said, in spite of your ability to consistently win the height debate, I will presume that you'd genuinely like to find a great girl who would add something enjoyable to your life while you do the same for her.

To start, let's state the obvious. The percentage of women who want a guy who is taller than they are is quite high and, quite a few women make it explicit in their profile. Therefore, it is a fact that your height is a disadvantage. Nothing to debate in that regard. That disadvantage is present in both OLD and RL.



Unfortunately, OLD is, at this age, by far the best method of finding single women interested in dating (apparently a better idea than using hobbies to meet them! See: https://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts16522077.aspx), so I have to deal with it, bias and frustration and all. And then come here and complain about it to start more debates.


That statement is false. OLD gives you little to no chance to expose other areas of your self to a woman you may be interested in. That is huge disadvantage. Your best bet is, by far, direct personal interaction, where characteristics other than your height, can be noticed by a woman.

On that same note, I read your post about what happened to you on Tinder, you didn't state you are 5'4". You set yourself up for failure and, the fact is, you knew it when you did it but, now you can feel miserable (annivermisery as you put it) and reinforce being "right" about height and win some more debates.

Now that I've given you a hard time you most definitely deserve, I'll try to be helpful.

First of all, another piece of "obviousness", an individual is a lot more than just his/her height. Every individual is a package. You cannot offer being 6 foot tall but, there are plenty of other things you can, and have, to offer. Instead of constantly thinking about your being 5'4", think about the other things you have to offer and focus on that instead. Learn to use what you have instead of focusing on what you do not have (height in your case.)

Since you mentioned the hobby thing... I will reiterate what I said in that thread, if you enjoy dancing then consider taking ballroom dancing classes. You will meet a lot of women and, women in general, like to dance. It is also a great social activity. I saw a fair number of women who were either married or were dating guys shorter than them. Again, if you like dancing that would be a good activity/hobby for you to consider. One that would definitely give you an advantage.

The other thing I am going to suggest you do is stop thinking about what *you* want and instead pay close attention to what whoever you are dealing with wants. Get good at that. If you haven't read it, I suggest you read this book:

"How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie.

An excellent book with advice and methods that are very effective in any area of human interaction.





@Kodanshi

That's all very well, but how do you switch from the negative mindset to the positive one?


Read the book I recommended to HawkingJr.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 9/15/2015
Msg: 121
view profile
History
Importance of height
Posted: 4/26/2016 8:17:40 AM

Coma: Again, no adult female has ever teased me about my height, so how can your “advice” not be worthless?


In my view, it's not a question of being teased or "tested". But about being defensive and hypersensitive about a particular subject.

I met a really fat woman once for a first meet, I thought I used to be fat, why not give this a chance?

The problem was, she was hyper sensitive about her weight, so any reference to weight even if it wasn't about her she would get very hostile.

It would be tiring to have to constantly reassure any partner that their height or weight or whatever wasn't a concern. So showing it isn't a big deal to you goes a long way to not making it a big deal to your date.


come here to the forums to enhance my debating skills, since that is my real life job – to debate people, research our competitors’ claims against us and put us in a better position.

Another strong debating partner bites the dust. :( You were one of my most worthy adversaries. Good luck.


This is exactly why I wonder how often you embellish your stories and responses just to win a pointless debate?

In many ways you remind me of NTFAN?, the woman that used to constantly complain about being aggressively sexually harassed while in public, every suggestion about how to prevent it was met with examples of how that doesn't work.

Many make an attempt to help you, but you consider it a debate you must win. And unlike a real debate, you can ignore any posts or parts of posts that you find yourself at a disadvantage in.

I again made a viable suggestion in this thread, I do think it would improve your response rate, and if it did you would learn something valuable about other people, and IG would learn how difficult it really is to overcome the odds.

https://forums.plentyoffish.com/16519034datingPostpage16.aspx


"How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie.


I actually took the course, it was 2 months long, paid for by the company I worked for. The thing I remember most about the course, how to remember names and getting up to tell an emotional story about yourself.

I think it was useful in that it makes you understand other people a little better.

I though that a joga class and Toastmasters would be both useful and might lead to meeting women. Instead of ball room dancing, if I were younger I might try something like hip hop. Though at my age, maybe whatever is in-between break dancing and ball room dancing.
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 122
Importance of height
Posted: 4/26/2016 8:26:45 AM
http://www.themodestman.com/100-famous-short-men/

LOL Took me all of 60 sec to find this ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Very interesting.
A president 5' 4", A world leader, 5' 4", ................................. and last, but not least, Prince was 5' 2".
 Kay9876
Joined: 7/4/2012
Msg: 123
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History
Importance of height
Posted: 4/26/2016 8:33:55 AM

Msg. 122: I will reiterate what I said in that thread, if you (Hawking) enjoy dancing then consider taking ballroom dancing classes.

Are there plenty of venues in Tampa that offer ballroom dancing? In my area, ballroom dance lessons are offered, but there are no venues that cater to ballroom dancers. Most of the venues here play a mix of rock and country with an occasional waltz and slow song. It would be better for novice dancers to find local venues that attract dancers of the preferred age range and personality type, and then learn the type of dancing offered in those venues.

On topic: I’ve danced with and dated men shorter than Hawking. (I’m 5’4”.)

 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 124
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History
Importance of height
Posted: 4/26/2016 8:41:08 AM
“That statement is false. OLD gives you little to no chance to expose other areas of your self to a woman you may be interested in.”

Yeah, but, that’s not what I said. What I said was: “OLD is, at this age, by far the best method of finding single women interested in dating”. I didn’t say that OLD was by far the method of finding single women interested in dating ME. I just said it was by far the best method finding single women interested in dating period, at my current age. Again, I meet many new women through my social life and activities but they are nearly all either married/otherwise unavailable or very young/very old. I can’t recall meeting any single women in their mid-30s to mid-40s so far this year in real life situations, which isn’t surprising since 65% of them are married and 25% divorced, often bitterly and with children (as I’ve said many times, I do not like children, and, yes, I know that is a problem with dating at my age). Online there are thousands of single women mid-30s to mid-40s – not because there are a lot of them in society, but because OLD is like a giant net combing the entire 50 mile radius from where I live and scooping them all up from every nook and cranny. There is a very low chance I’d ever meet a single woman in that age range from New Port Richey or Sarasota or Lakeland because these are areas dozens of miles away I rarely ever have any reason to be at, and yet I have had dates with women from NPR, Sarasota and Lakeland, thanks to OLD.

I agree with you, that all other things being equal, I should have a better chance at getting the typical single woman to go out with me in real life than online. The problem is that typical single woman is difficult to meet in real life situations. When you’re in your teens or early 20s, they’re all over the place, because they make up 90% of the female population, but the older you get, the less of them there are, and the harder they are to find period, much less one you’d actually want to date and have mutual attraction with. Obviously by your age the situation has shifted somewhat because there are a lot more divorcees, widows, empty nesters and women have started outnumbering men, but I’m at the age in which there are the least number of single people. I currently have very few single friends, but 10 years ago the majority of them were.

I took ballroom and square dancing in middle school. Not a big fan, but I go out to dance clubs with my friends all the time, so I like dancing in general (having actually done ballroom dancing, I would definitely say it falls under the category of a hobby I would be doing for no other reason than to meet women, which women in that thread strongly recommended against; to answer Kay's question, though, there are many ballroom dancing studios in this area and as I mentioned in the hobby thread, my best friend took one and said the vast majority of women in it were like her, married). I’m not sure how many more hobbies I can add anyway – I have to spend most of this week at a film festival networking and running panels, and the following week I have several meetings for my own film festival and another pitch to a group of film investors for my next project, and at some point I need to start gearing up for my latest hiking expedition -- I'm back to working out 2 hours a day on weekdays and 4-5 hours on weekends, plus my friends schedule stuff they expect me to attend -- I don't know why half my friends were born in June, but anyway sometimes there's just not enough time in the day (NONE of this is actual pay-the-bills work – I still have to do that for 50-60 hours a week, which I suppose is better socially-speaking than when I was doing 70-100 hours a week but oddly I had more friends then and I did even MORE social activities -- I just didn’t sleep at all). I read Carnegie’s book quite some time ago, btw. I read a lot of stuff.

I don't have time to address the other posts that popped up after FlaMan's while I was writing his response because I have to get to a lunch meeting.
 flman2015
Joined: 10/3/2015
Msg: 125
Importance of height
Posted: 4/26/2016 10:46:07 AM


Yeah, but, that’s not what I said. What I said was: “OLD is, at this age, by far the best method of finding single women interested in dating”.


You are right. I cannot think of another place where all the women are there for the purpose of dating. That said, you already know that in OLD, that is on paper, you are at a disadvantage. As you've acknowledged, you know your chances are better IRL.

The number of available and accessible women in your age range is lower IRL than in OLD but, a greater number of women who won't consider you, that is OLD, is less desirable than a (very?) small number of women who might consider you (that is IRL) because they actually got to know you. "Bet" where your chances are best, in this case, greater numbers don't make your chances better.



Online there are thousands of single women mid-30s to mid-40s – not because there are a lot of them in society, but because OLD is like a giant net combing the entire 50 mile radius from where I live and scooping them all up from every nook and cranny.


True but, the fish in that net are likely thinking along the same lines you are. That is, they are playing the number game: there are plenty of guys in the net who are taller than 5'4" therefore I won't "settle" for 5'4".



The problem is that typical single woman is difficult to meet in real life situations.


Difficult, yes. Impossible ?... no.




I like dancing in general (having actually done ballroom dancing, I would definitely say it falls under the category of a hobby I would be doing for no other reason than to meet women


If you like it then do it because you like it.



my best friend took one and said the vast majority of women in it were like her, married).


The Tampa area is large enough that there are ballroom dancing places where singles go meet. see http://www.dancinglist.com/dancelist/florida/tampabay.html

You like dancing and you'd like to meet women, there are a few places in that list that cater to people with that combined goal.



I read Carnegie’s book quite some time ago,


I read Andrew Wiles proof of Fermat's Last Theorem (roughly 170 pages of tough reading). I should probably read it a few more times before it really starts to sink in. Fortunately, getting a date is a lot simpler (provided you don't expect your date to have read it too.) You should consider reading it again (I mean Dale Carnegie's book, not Andrew Wiles proof).







dragonbytes

I actually took the course, it was 2 months long, paid for by the company I worked for. The thing I remember most about the course, how to remember names and getting up to tell an emotional story about yourself.

I think it was useful in that it makes you understand other people a little better.



I never took the course. I read the book when I was in my mid-teens. An older friend of mine (in his early 20s at the time) suggested I read it (he saw the obvious.. I needed to read it... LOL). A quick summary of the main points in the book (which doesn't do the book justice) would be along the lines of:

1. Always be genuine. Hollow flattery, in addition to being boring, makes a person come across as not being trustworthy. A good relationship, of any kind, cannot be built on distrust. This one cannot be overemphasized.

2. Even if you are dealing with someone you don't like, focus on finding something in the person that you view as a good quality and give them due credit for it. This is a key ingredient in a good relationship. Noticing the good in an individual that others don't notice is almost a drug.

3. It is human nature to focus on what we want. Pay close attention to the person you are interacting with and determine what it is that *they* want. If you can _gracefully_ offer what they want, it is much more likely that they will be willing and, often downright pleased, to give you what *you* want.

4. Be fair and objective and, most importantly, give a person time to rewire their thinking. Being "right" isn't enough. It often takes time for someone to accept a premise that is contrary to what they are used to.

Definitely a very good book. It's no wonder Dale Carnegie was quite successful.




Kay9876

Are there plenty of venues in Tampa that offer ballroom dancing?


A quick google search showed the following:


Tampa, FL · Studio Ingo
Tampa, FL · Bollywood Dance Moves
Rhapsody Ballroom
Easydance ballroom
Riverview, FL · Dance World
Saint Petersburg, FL · La Petite Centre for Dance
Tampa, FL · Dancer & Health Coach
Saint Petersburg, FL · 1st Dance Studio
Largo, FL · Amy's Dance Instruction
Valrico, FL · Dance Dynamics
Tampa, FL · Salsa Xtreme Dance Studio
Saint Petersburg, FL · Wedding Dance Pro Romance Your Dance
Tampa, FL · Tammy Chadwell
Saint Petersburg, FL · Breakdance Ent
Brandon, FL · The Way 2 Dance
Tampa, FL · Arthur Murray Tampa Dance Studio
Naples, FL · A Dream Wedding DJ & More
Clearwater, FL · Elements Health and Beauty Spa
Lutz, FL · Dance Time Studio at Dancesations, Lutz, FL.





In my area, ballroom dance lessons are offered, but there are no venues that cater to ballroom dancers.


In your area, there seems to be a few (not as many as in the Tampa area) ballroom dancing venues. A short list can be found at:

http://www.yellowpages.com/cape-girardeau-mo/dance-studios

Obviously, I have no idea as to what they offer but, it would be a place to start for someone interested in ballroom dancing.
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