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 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 1206
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LJane wrote:



I just met up with a guy a few days ago, and I could tell right away that he wasn’t interested. We had a good chat, but I knew I wasn’t getting a second date, and he later confirmed that.


You probably already know this, but believing "right away" someone isn't interested isn't the best attitude in the first few moments of meeting someone new. Those first few moments set the stage for the whole date in my view. I have talked to women who have told me they sometimes know within the first 15 minutes of meeting a guy if they are interested in a date, or even sleeping with them. As a guy, I can pretty much say the same thing. Of course the "sleep with" threshold for men is lower, a pulse and breathinq qualifies..lol, just kidding.....But those decisions are made quickly. The old adage about a "first impression" rings true. Of course someone can recover from a bad start, but it just makes things more difficult, and even harder if one is a bit shy naturally. In OLD dating probably an irrecoverable situation.

Is this the same guy you posted somewhere else where you didn't know how tall he was til you set up the date....and when you looked at his height, you got nervous? If so, you went into this date nervous, before you even met him.

I do know confidence is vitally more important to men...however it matters to women too....as in making a man feel comfortable too. He wants to relax and have fun with you too, so it's a two way street.

At any rate, sorry to hear that the date didn't work out.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 1207
Importance of Height
Posted: 10/26/2016 9:26:49 AM
"I have talked to women who have told me they sometimes know within the first 15 minutes of meeting a guy if they are interested in a date, or even sleeping with them. As a guy, I can pretty much say the same thing."

>>>I suspect the better grasp we have of what we want out of a relationship, and where its going to end up, the faster we figure out if a person's a good fit for what we want from them. Guys who want to get laid, can figure out real quick what their chances are with a woman who's saving herself. A guy who's just hoping to get laid somehow, will cling on. A woman who wants a financially secure man for better dating situations (not just that he'll spend money on her, but that he also won't be asking to crash on her couch for a month) will be quick to look at his profile and judge his chances. A woman who isn't even sure what finanacial stability means b/c her own accounts are a mess, might overlook some red flags initially.

There might not even be a conscious thought put into it. Of course, this assumes we have other options to get what we want. If we aren't the cat's meow for the general populace, we might stick around b/c this is the best option next to having no option. But online, there's always another profile to swipe.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 1208
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Importance of Height
Posted: 10/26/2016 9:36:12 AM
LJane wrote:


But, those same girls also get more attention online, and get ogled more while walking down the street, so it’s got to be more than just personality.


How about dress? Do they dress more provocatively? More makeup? Fancier hairstyle? Their walk...more confident and sexy? Facial expression? Do they look up and face the world when walking down the street, or look away from people or look at the ground? Look passerbys in the face? SMile? Wear clothing/jewelry that garner comments? etc. etc. etc.

Just generating ideas, not to say that any of these would work for you, or that you would want to do them. But there are other variables that may be at work here. I do know that the pictures that show cleavage do get my attention than those that don't....sorry...but I'm a guy. Just the way it is. I would not suggest YOU do that though, as I think, from your posts, that you're not "that type." As you seem to be a more "genuine" type, I wouldn't change that part of you to climb the superficiality ladder. But the attitude and self-confidence arena you may find you can generate some improvement, but I am sure you know that.


I know a sh*tty attitude is even less attractive and can be changed, but it’s getting harder to do that.


You're too young for that. There will be plenty of that once you reach your 50s-60s, lol, just kidding. But seriously.....you have youth on your side, which many of here don't have.......so put that youth to use.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 1209
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Importance of Height
Posted: 10/26/2016 9:54:08 AM

I asked him if he thought I looked like my pictures, and he said no. So maybe the discrepancy is worse than I thought. It’s frustrating, because they are of me, and most of them (all the close-up shots) were taken within the past year. However, I did pose at a certain angle to make my face look thinner, and I used an editing program to erase my double chin.


I agree with others here who say lose the edited pictures. I think using different ("flattering") angles and lighting is fine, though. Ya gotta market yourself...and you'll be competing with others who do the same. I think you said the pix you have up now are unedited? From my view, they look just fine and I don't see any reason (physically) why a man - that you are attracted to - would not be interested. I just don't see your looks being worthy of only attracting yellow-teethed, chubby, open-mouth-food-chewing type of men.....

.Have you tried anything other than a cell phone camera...i.e. a higher end camera, not a cell phone? Or what about experimenting with an old fashioned film camera? Who knows, at this point if you're having such a problem with getting flattering and/or representative pix, you should try everything.

IDK, just generating ideas here.
 imanorangetiger
Joined: 12/29/2011
Msg: 1210
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Importance of Height
Posted: 10/26/2016 11:40:44 AM
Never a good idea to edit an image (though I increasingly keep seeing photos that are overfiltered and make people look as though they're made of plastic...) but I'm struggling to see why you're having problems, LJane; you've always come across as very attractive to me. Oh to be a fly on the wall on one of your dates to see what's going on!
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 1211
Importance of issues
Posted: 10/26/2016 2:27:01 PM

How am I wrong, and on what? Short synopsis, please! ;)


(Damn near , fell off the sofa)
 LJane_6
Joined: 6/10/2015
Msg: 1212
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Importance of Height
Posted: 10/27/2016 1:50:12 AM

So we realized how compatible we were, and how deeply we complemented each others weaknesses. Then as you share and time goes on, we also became best friends. So yeah, sex and physical attraction worked.


So you got the whole package. I think that’s what most everyone is looking for. By no means did I say throw physical attraction out the window. My issue is that men seem to only look for someone they find hot and sexy, and ignore everything else. For me personally, it’s very rare to feel chemistry on a first date, it takes time to develop. These men seem to want an instant connection or to jump in the sack right away, then get to know the person. To me that seems backwards. I’d rather get to know someone and see if I like them as a person before sleeping with them.


the beauty of good sex...once you've had it, you realize its not such a bad thing after all.


Nobody is saying that sex is a bad thing…not at all. I’m just saying that for me, a relationship has to be based on more than that.


someone's persona making their physicality Unattractive in their eyes? 8th grade-ish if it isn't some rare outlier experience.


But just because we think someone is good looking, doesn’t mean we feel attraction toward them or have any desire to hook up with them. I think women are somewhat different than men that way. Men will sleep with women they don’t like just to get sex or because they are hot. Some women do that too, but I think it’s more of a guy thing. For me, I almost never feel desire for a guy based on looks alone, I at least have to know them somewhat. And, not liking someone’s personality can totally make them seem physically unattractive! How is that weird or unusual?


Then he wouldn't have been a good husband, if you regretted it.


As I said, he wouldn’t have been a good fit for me, no. What I meant by “good husband” is that he had a strong character and morals – I know he would be honest, faithful, caring etc. But without enough compatibility, those things alone wouldn’t have been enough.


You shouldn't have your emotions stuck to things about someone "on paper". "On paper" should just be a filter for the obvious, and forseeing some compatibilities. Attraction to each other's bodies is just as down to earth as being attracted to each other's flow & banter, among other things.


I think both are important. But this is the old “chemistry vs. compatibility” debate. Many people sacrifice one if they find the other. Personally, I can’t do that. However, both are really hard to find.


In the end, one shouldn't see compatibility on-paper as their main goal, and think "I'll grow to be physically attracted to them Enough to be a content gf/wife". I wouldn't advise the other way around, but I would say if one Were in emotional need to just have someone, I would say that mutual physical attraction would be a good launching point to help grow together, instead of just "playing house."


I actually think that for myself I would agree with this, if those were my only choices. However, either one (choosing merely compatibility or attraction) could easily be a slippery slope.


You probably already know this, but believing "right away" someone isn't interested isn't the best attitude in the first few moments of meeting someone new. Those first few moments set the stage for the whole date in my view.


Well, I’ve almost come to expect by now that if I find a guy attractive, he won’t feel the same way. It’s sad, but it’s just been my experience the majority of the time. However, I try not to let that fear show JUST IN CASE this one time will be different. I mean, I try to act confident and friendly. But I’m naturally a shy and nervous person, so there’s really no way to hide that completely.


Is this the same guy you posted somewhere else where you didn't know how tall he was til you set up the date....and when you looked at his height, you got nervous? If so, you went into this date nervous, before you even met him.


Yes, I didn't look at his height when I first contacted him, and then noticed it when he wrote back. I mean, I’m nervous about every date, but more so if I find the guy attractive. And honestly, knowing he was so tall made it more intimidating. For me, height isn’t a big deal when it comes to choosing a partner. But, it’s been my experience to have better luck dating short guys.


I do know confidence is vitally more important to men...however it matters to women too....as in making a man feel comfortable too. He wants to relax and have fun with you too, so it's a two way street.


I agree, and I’m trying, but it’s hard to seem confident when you’re not. I am more attracted to confident guys though, so I guess it has to work both ways.


Guys who want to get laid, can figure out real quick what their chances are with a woman who's saving herself.


Someone did suggest to me that guys can sense this, and maybe that’s why some of them drop me right away. I honestly can’t say for sure. But I do think it’s fairly obvious I’m not the hookup type.


If we aren't the cat's meow for the general populace, we might stick around b/c this is the best option next to having no option.


I’m done with that. I’d rather be alone than settle.


How about dress? Do they dress more provocatively? More makeup? Fancier hairstyle? Their walk...more confident and sexy? Facial expression?


I have tried dressing different ways and wearing more makeup to see if that made a difference. It didn't seem to help much. I think the way the other girls walk and their facial expressions might have something to do with it, though. I feel a little bit uncomfortable dressing that way, because sometimes guys get the message that you want to hook up, and I don’t. So I kind of feel like it’s leading them on in a sense, or giving a false message.


you have youth on your side, which many of here don't have.......so put that youth to use.


Hahaha, thanks. I seriously feel old though, because most of my friends my own age are married and I’ve been hanging out with some young 20-somethings lately. Also, having no kids at my age can scare some people who want them, since I’m running out of time.


I agree with others here who say lose the edited pictures. I think using different ("flattering") angles and lighting is fine, though. Ya gotta market yourself...and you'll be competing with others who do the same. I think you said the pix you have up now are unedited?


Yes, the pics are unedited, but I did use flattering angles and lighting. And I have to admit, these pics do look quite different than a lot of my other ones. But like you said, it seems everyone is putting their best pics up, and my normal ones did not get good results.


Have you tried anything other than a cell phone camera...i.e. a higher end camera, not a cell phone?


I actually think I look worse in better quality pics. The cell phone camera is a bit fuzzy and more forgiving.


I just don't see your looks being worthy of only attracting yellow-teethed, chubby, open-mouth-food-chewing type of men.....


I don’t think so either. And as I’ve mentioned, I used to think of myself as fairly attractive before I started dating. However, the results I’ve gotten have made me feel otherwise.


I'm struggling to see why you're having problems, LJane; you've always come across as very attractive to me. Oh to be a fly on the wall on one of your dates to see what's going on!


Thank you for the compliment. Maybe it is something I’m doing, or a vibe I’m giving off. Or, it could be that I just don’t have the particular type of look guys are going for. I don’t know. Sometimes I honestly feel like giving up, but I don’t want to be alone forever, so I’ll keep trying. Hopefully if I date more, I’ll get better at it.

Thanks everyone for your feedback to my "dilemma," even though it’s in the wrong thread. xD
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 1213
Importance of Height
Posted: 10/27/2016 6:46:31 AM
^^ maybe you are getting too stressed out about the pressure of the word date. Just think of it as a first meet.. nothing ventured nothing lost. Don't pick stuff like dinners for the first time.
And while I agree with much of your post - about having to have more that just physical attraction.
Two words for you, Jason Momoa.
 Butterchickenchuck
Joined: 9/18/2015
Msg: 1214
Importance of Height
Posted: 10/27/2016 6:57:59 AM
^^^^^


I've got 2 better words. Jessica Alba


( you rob your cradle and I'll rob mine, haha )
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 1215
Importance of Height
Posted: 10/27/2016 7:09:11 AM
You Sir have excellent taste in women and ways to prepare chicken :.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 1216
Importance of Height
Posted: 10/27/2016 9:04:19 AM
I like this thread, b/c it makes me come across (heh) articles like this:

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/sex/2013/01/sexual-objectification/

As a fellow, its easy for me to spot the women who focus on sex first, or on sex as most important. They reveal themselves by advertising themselves....sexually. What's important to the, ends up being the first thing they show off. They make themselves up quite a bit, strut and flirt, dress in clothes that state, "here it is", the photos on their profiles are a catalog of their body parts. "I may be an older woman, but look, here's photos of my ass and my hips and me in a bikini nowhere near a beach. I don't just claim to hit the gym, here's the proof. Please offer a like body to me or don't email". If I want to avoid these situation, I can spot and avoid these women (tho of course, they tend to avoid me, so I don't have to worry--same boat you mentioned about people you're attracted to not feeling the same). Do men advertise what's important to them, too? I suspect so, and maybe for some women, it might be so flattering that they don't consider it a red flag.

Or maybe its sensuality/joie de vivre. Is the person shaking their booty on the dance floor more willing to hop into bed than the bookworm spending the same nights in the library? Is the bookworm more willing to "take it glacially slow"? Would the male version buy meal after meal after meal, patiently waiting for....I don't know, "the payoff"? What's he buying dinner for, when he can get the same companionship for free if he's just a friend and they go dutch? When a nerd wants to impress a stranger, he doesn't come off sexy, he engages her brain b/c that's what important to him. that's his comfort zone. that's what he offers, and that's where he lives. And comically, its where he turns off the party girl, who's dressed to attract sex, not brains. He's not speaking her language.

Or, as the article I quoted suggests, perhaps women seek more of the connection, so like I posted before "being friends first" isn't a problem. Whether the intimacy is platonic or romantic, its still intimacy. a woman might sleep with a hot fellow when she's ovulating and horny, or drunk and horny, but then she's left with "What's next". Does she make a relationship or does she say, "yep, I did it. go ahead and label me." I think this occurs more at a younger age than at an older one, when we all tend to evolve into a "Who cares?" general attitude about what other people think of us.

Its tough to date when young, when we aren't what everyone's looking for (or thinks they should be). We are more interested in dating (relatively speaking) than when we get older. We have more of the drive, we are more curious about what other people think about us, we are less willing to be on our own, we want to know that we are the cat's meow. When we get older, generally speaking, those voices get a little quieter.
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 1217
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Importance of Height
Posted: 10/27/2016 10:24:59 AM


I like this thread, b/c it makes me come across (heh) articles like this:

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/sex/2013/01/sexual-objectification/


A very interesting article, thanks for posting the link. I was not aware of this, as most women are not willing to discuss watching porn, much less what sort of porn they might be watching.



"I may be an older woman, but look, here's photos of my ass and my hips and me in a bikini nowhere near a beach. I don't just claim to hit the gym, here's the proof. Please offer a like body to me or don't email". If I want to avoid these situation, I can spot and avoid these women (tho of course, they tend to avoid me, so I don't have to worry--same boat you mentioned about people you're attracted to not feeling the same).

I am most definitely not a “hard body” or “hot body”, so in the past I (like you) tended to avoid such profiles. But after having several such women send me initial messages, I decided, “What the hell, life is short, go for the gusto!” Yes, the majority never respond. And a few even send me nasty replies. But, every now and then, the gamble pays off. Remember this, it doesn’t cost anything, 100% free. And if you get rejected, it is by someone you have never met, and never will meet, so who cares? And, when it pays off, you have the chance to meet and hopefully date someone that you are truly attracted to, not just someone that you are “settling” for.


Its tough to date when young, when we aren't what everyone's looking for (or thinks they should be). We are more interested in dating (relatively speaking) than when we get older. We have more of the drive, we are more curious about what other people think about us, we are less willing to be on our own, we want to know that we are the cat's meow. When we get older, generally speaking, those voices get a little quieter.

Speak for yourself, those voices are still roaring in my ears, and I’m a great deal older than you!
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 1218
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Importance of Height
Posted: 10/27/2016 2:21:43 PM

But just because we think someone is good looking, doesn’t mean we feel attraction toward them or have any desire to hook up with them.

Oh, I know. I never even remotely implied that. That's a Different Subject. As I said, with my friend's sister who I (secretly) dated years ago -- she's physically good looking, and I can say & recognize that now (even though I don't run into her) even though she is one of the very few people I have a True, Full Disdain toward.

But of course, the point is running into someone you don't really know (much), finding no Physical attraction in their looks, then finding Physical attraction In their looks when nothing changes. Anyone having that frequently is a bad sign, is my point. Their emotions & mindset is off-kilter, and is an indicator of potential drama.

I think women are somewhat different than men that way.

Going back to what Your subject, I don't think So Much, if one's good looking enough. Gals will always be hanging/lingering around 'Brad' even after complaining about him, and the Nice Guy friends of hers will be b!tching about it. Why does that happen? Looks. "It's more than that," one will say -- and sure, looks can alter our perception of them as a person (good and bad).

And, not liking someone’s personality can totally make them seem physically unattractive! How is that weird or unusual?

That's wack. :) Again, there's a difference between not being physically drawn to them VS finding/seeing them as a physically unattractive person. Related analogy: My friend talks with a very pretty gal at the bar and gets her # and is excited. He thanks me for not c0ck-blocking him, even though she talked to me first. I tell him that No, she Is really cute -- but she looks too much like an Ex. I can see that objective beauty, but me being drawn to Her is nixed.... or her 'look' doesn't have any pull to me.

Thinking/seeing she is actually Physically Unattractive as a person, because of disdain of someone similar looking from the past is warped. Now, I can understand that somewhat to Some degree, to the point of not being drawn to them -- that's fine. Personally attracted to one's looks VS seeing/recognizing attractive looks, is a big difference.

Now, my point goes even further than past-damage by someone: It's when no, they don't look a specific person who made an impact on your life in the negative (or positive)... but when it's someone you don't know, but you're going by stereotype. If that makes one Sees them as physically Unattractive as a result -- yikes... one has issues.

And again, I'm not talking about someone lacking enough physical attraction to be Drawn to them. I'm talking about Physically Repulsed, then ON after getting to know them some. How is that Not weird, or an indicator of issues?

Okay, to the other subject...

What I meant by “good husband” is that he had a strong character and morals – I know he would be honest, faithful, caring etc. But without enough compatibility, those things alone wouldn’t have been enough.

Yeah, but that's not different than "he has a good job, financially responsible" -- but if they're not physically attractive on any recognizable level -- it's not even worth's one time even Thinking about a date with them, is my point. It should be just as much a waste of time for a relationship-hunter saying that about someone who's already happily married.

I actually think that for myself I would agree with this, if those were my only choices. However, either one (choosing merely compatibility or attraction) could easily be a slippery slope.

When you have the mutual physical attraction (on the high end) be the launching point for two people, with no stark/obvious/big compatibility issues poking out -- that's Natural + not a bad way to go. Because solidification & attachment hasn't set in yet anyway. Over time, if one's a bad person or too big of compatibility issues due arise, the looks thing isn't going to keep one together in a relationship.

But if you Don't find them attractive at all, or a I'll-lie-to-myself-cause-I-need-someone-so-they-could-be-cute?, and you end up running with it because you Do See mutual compatibility in a good way "on paper" poking out -- one's just "playing house". If someone's pretty asexual, I can see the lack of harm in it, as long as that close-to-asexuality is a part of them and not just a period of time in their lives (out of lonliness and whatnot). I would highly not recommend such a crazy route to anyone.

And to be clear, no, I'm not advocating "Must be Wow'd by one's looks". I'm saying if you're Unattracted, don't even think of going on a date. If you "aren't that into them" by looks, maybe A casual/laid-back date if it's mutually convenient and they really like ya, but if that doesn't change things, don't force it -- say buh-bye.

Well, I’ve almost come to expect by now that if I find a guy attractive, he won’t feel the same way.

Well, just realize, when adequate attraction levels on either side is there, dating still has a "low batting average" of working out. Especially if either one gets nervous about it all, which can be brought on by it not being a very common occurrance getting an actual date with someone who one's truly physically attracted to. You have to want/accept rejection, and be more fearless. In the end, it helps -- but it's not until you get a 'success' that one realizes it.

I think at this point, IMO, you shouldn't go out on a date for the sake of being out on a date, feeling very potentially wanted, despite not being attracted to the guy. I think everyone does this who have been in a dateless rut for a good block of time. But one thing should be -- don't sit there and let them come to you (easier for gals to fall in this trap)... open the doors, make oneself available... and as "Mystery" said in the book "The Pickup Artist" -- get ready to be shot down. You have to roll with it. But in your case, it's not head-on collisions like guys going up to girls fully head on. It's making yourself available and fighting against your Comfort Zone.
 2ufo2
Joined: 8/29/2016
Msg: 1219
Importance of Height
Posted: 10/27/2016 3:05:14 PM


Its tough to date when young, when we aren't what everyone's looking for (or thinks they should be). We are more interested in dating (relatively speaking) than when we get older. We have more of the drive, we are more curious about what other people think about us, we are less willing to be on our own, we want to know that we are the cat's meow. When we get older, generally speaking, those voices get a little quieter.


Speak for yourself, those voices are still roaring in my ears, and I’m a great deal older than you!


No flipping kidding!
I think Jane's tea cup is too full to add anything.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 1220
the highs and the lows
Posted: 10/27/2016 3:47:16 PM
Oh, if "one of those profiles" contacted me first, i'd sure give it a try. But to "cold call" them, I typically don't bother just b/c it hasn't worked in all the other years I've tried it. I do understand the notion, "can't win if you don't play" and if it paid off once a year or once every two years, i'd make the investment b/c I can see there is a return. I used to go out often, even to events I wasn't all that interested in, b/c "The one" might be there. Now if there's a good TV show on, i'd rather invest my time in something I know i'll like :) I suspect at this time, the way i'm going to get the attention of someone i'm not "Settling for" is if she gets to know me over time and she's looking for personality and brains rather than looks. Out here at least, such a pearl tends to be already taken. The serial monogamist tends to be more interested in sex, and thus, looks.

I can say, the "urge to merge" isn't as bad as it was when I and others I know were younger. I think back then there was more of a need to be accepted, if you will. Dating wasn't just about the pleasure of companionship. And for some, they were still living with their parents, so it was getting out of the house and hanging out with someone who wasn't family and familiar. It was a new person to complain about work to, etc. We may not worry about them being a provider, if Dad's keeping the roof over our heads from leaking. we might only worry they can provide for tonight's dinner (if they are a lady, hopefully not a guy sponging off his gf). we might have a more short term view just b/c we're young, we aren't looking primarily for someone to play house with, we want someone to be fun with.

Things might evolve when we've been together long enough to ask, "where's this going?" and we start to see the other person is responsible, etc enough to be a good choice for a roomate. If we truly have a long view, we might realize that having a good job is only good so long as the job stays around. If the job is lost, does this person have the morals and education and such to find another one? I've known a few people who have "lucked into" a job or just stuck around long enough that seniority has moved them up into a Peter Principle location. I'd rather hitch my horse to someone who can roll with whatever punches come in life, b/c we can make all the plans we want, and stuff can still go bad. Its the person who knows how to bounce back, that survives and succeeds.

but who thinks about that when they're checking out someone's fine ass from across the room? Someone posted here about how a pretty face seems to attract more than other "body parts", and I think I can agree with that. There's ladies I've crushed on even when they had "a few extra pounds", b/c gosh, they have such a pretty face. Its not even the expressions on them, though people can make a pretty face ugly with consistant bad attitudes on life or just plain dumb looks. some people can look great in a photo, and in real life, have a sucky attitude. others may look not so great in photos, but in life they are so spunky and outgoing and energized and ready to take on the world, they're hot.

there's a lot to "What makes someone attractive to me". I looked up a woman I rejected back in high school for no other reason than she was the biggest airhead I ever met. I figured i'd find a better fit in college a year afterward. Now i'd overlook her airheadedness since she still somehow looks like she did at 18. But I can understand why she can't keep a man. I'd accept the glass half full. There are other people, I might put up with their foibles one day, b/c "who's perfect?" and the next day, I change my mind b/c I can find something else that makes me feel as excited. Last week I bumped into a woman I've been chasing for years. We keep crossing paths, and she always remembers me and acts interested in seeing me again. But as I've found out, its a superficial expression. so while I could be out at the walking path I saw her at last week, hoping to bump into her again...this time i'm in no rush. I don't expect it to be different from the last 10 times. I sure have the interest, I just don't have the faith :) I'm not as interested in "running around like a chicken with my head cut off" as I used to be.

but then there'll be another day, when I think she might be worth it. And then by the evening, i'm thinking watching pretty women from afar is more fun than scaring them off by letting them know i'm interested. Sometimes, a woman is attractive enough to me to be worth chasing, other times, I figure I know the outcome so I won't approach, and other times I figure its more fun to go home and "fantacize" what she would be like, and then do something else I enjoy. If I drank more, I might approach more. Thinking soberly might make things more rational, and perhaps that's an age-relative thing as well.

I remember years back, a young lass asking why men make such a big deal about sex. I countered with the fact women make it such a big deal. A attractive man who gets it often, usually doesn't go out and sleep with every 6 or 7 he meets, he's only interested in the women who really catch his attention, and he might not be trying to get them into bed on the first date simply b/c he has enough women chasing him, its old hat. A fellow who doesn't get it so often, might be more interested in getting it more often b/c it might be a sign a woman really likes him, if she does with him what she doesn't do with others.

I wasn't saying that to play "blame the victim", but based on couples who turn down sex from the partner b/c they always know they can get it the next night. When sex is routine, you already know you're loved enough for sex. now why won't you wash and put away the dishes after I've come home from work and slaved over the stove? don't you want to love me enough to do that little bit for me?

perhaps our standard measurement of "they must care for me, b/c they do X" changes.
 LJane_6
Joined: 6/10/2015
Msg: 1221
view profile
History
the highs and the lows
Posted: 10/28/2016 1:58:38 AM

Two words for you, Jason Momoa


Had no idea who that was so I googled him…looks intense lol
I’m a fan of the long hair and beard combo, though.


If I want to avoid these situation, I can spot and avoid these women (tho of course, they tend to avoid me, so I don't have to worry--same boat you mentioned about people you're attracted to not feeling the same). Do men advertise what's important to them, too? I suspect so, and maybe for some women, it might be so flattering that they don't consider it a red flag.


Maybe…of course, I don’t tend to go for the gym rats and movie star-looking guys…but I do like the scruffy musician type. And while I’m musical myself, I think I come across as too boring or clean-cut for many of them. I think some of them might like me if they got to know me better, but again, first impressions are key when dating, unfortunately.


It’s tough to date when young, when we aren't what everyone's looking for (or thinks they should be). We are more interested in dating (relatively speaking) than when we get older. We have more of the drive, we are more curious about what other people think about us, we are less willing to be on our own, we want to know that we are the cat's meow. When we get older, generally speaking, those voices get a little quieter.


I think mine are getting louder the older I get, but then, maybe that’s just the clock ticking.


I suspect at this time, the way i'm going to get the attention of someone i'm not "Settling for" is if she gets to know me over time and she's looking for personality and brains rather than looks.



I am most definitely not a “hard body” or “hot body”, so in the past I (like you) tended to avoid such profiles. But after having several such women send me initial messages, I decided, “What the hell, life is short, go for the gusto!” …And, when it pays off, you have the chance to meet and hopefully date someone that you are truly attracted to, not just someone that you are “settling” for.


Well, a woman SHOULD look for personality and brains rather than just looks. But, are you guys saying that you’re only “truly attracted” to women with these so-called “hot bodies," and that women your own age and fitness level would be “settling”? Whether that’s the case or not, I find that men always seem to want someone hotter than themselves, and seem to think that someone on a similar level (at least in looks) is settling. Give me a break! I think I’m realistic about knowing I’m an average-looking person, and I am attracted to average-looking men my own age. But when it comes to personality, my standards are ridiculously high, so maybe I’m shooting out of my league in that arena. But then, most of the guys who I would consider in my league seem to think they can do better >:(


But of course, the point is running into someone you don't really know (much), finding no Physical attraction in their looks, then finding Physical attraction In their looks when nothing changes.


Something would have to change. That is, you would get to know them and become more attracted based on their personality. It’s not like one day you would think the guy was nasty, and later that day he’s hot. It would be more of a subtle shift over time. With the guy I liked, his looks didn’t change, but I got to know him and notice things about him I didn’t before.


Gals will always be hanging/lingering around 'Brad' even after complaining about him, and the Nice Guy friends of hers will be b!tching about it. Why does that happen? Looks.


I would say looks and/or confidence. I think an insecure (or broke) good-looking guy could have trouble, just as a confident (or rich, lol) so/so looking guy could score a lot with women. Status can make a difference too, of course…not just money, but knowing the guy has connections, or in my case, plays guitar well…xD You seem to be very convinced that looks are what attract women, but really, it’s only part of the equation, and can be overlooked big-time if the guy has other impressive qualities.


there's a difference between not being physically drawn to them VS finding/seeing them as a physically unattractive person.


If the guy is obviously handsome like a model or movie star, then yeah, most people are going to say he’s a good-looking douche or something to that effect. But with an average person (aka - most of us), I really do think personality can alter our perception of someone’s looks more than we realize. Like, maybe not ugly to hot or vice-versa, but so/so to hot, or attractive to unattractive. i think I mentioned this before, but I was once watching a TV show and I thought a guy on it was cute. He was acting nice in the beginning of the show, and then later on turned into a jerk. And honestly, I started finding him unattractive, especially when his facial expressions changed.

I also wasn’t talking about someone with past issues like being reminded of their ex, that’s different. Or physically repulsed. I already mentioned before that to go from repulsed to attracted would be very rare. I think it would be possible to go the other way around though, if someone was a real jerk.


Yeah, but that's not different than "he has a good job, financially responsible" -- but if they're not physically attractive on any recognizable level -- it's not even worth's one time even Thinking about a date with them, is my point.


Actually, it is very different in the sense that having a good character is more important than a good job and financially stable (at least to me, although lack of stability could be an indicator of other issues, so it would depend)…however, I agree that yes, there has to be some attraction, at least. A little bit, or even neutral might be able to grow, but repulsed or zero is unlikely. I just find it really hard, especially on OLD, to tell if I’m attracted to someone or not, because I can’t always tell based on pictures.


But if you Don't find them attractive at all, or a I'll-lie-to-myself-cause-I-need-someone-so-they-could-be-cute?, and you end up running with it because you Do See mutual compatibility in a good way "on paper" poking out -- one's just "playing house".


I wouldn't recommend this either and never did. I was talking about getting to know someone a bit (if they have other good qualities) before writing them off based on looks (again, not being repulsed, but in the so/so range). You should be able to tell pretty early on if attraction will grow, but not always right away or on the first date.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 1222
those who pay, get to set the rules :)
Posted: 10/28/2016 6:36:13 AM
cue the musician jokes :) What do you call a guitarist with no girlfriend? homeless :) but seriously, the few musicians I've known were either looking to connect with people first thru any musical talent found (the most important thing to them), self focused (a guy I worked with wanted a woman with a flat belly, while he lived in his mom's basement wondering how he could become as rich as Ozzy. Now he has ads on Facebook teaching guitar lessons, so at least he's got something going on finally), or trying to live the "sex drugs and rock and roll" lifestyle they think their heroes live (another coworker, sleeping with someone's wife in the camper shell on the back of his pickup during lunchbreaks). perhaps finding a musician not like the above, getting to know them and letting you grow on them, might be key (pun intended). But that requires patience and yes, plenty of women get caught up in the ticking clock. some men, too, since the chances for Down's increases with age of the father.

I want a lot when it comes to a woman's personality and brains. If her appearance is out of my league, then logically, i'm losing in one field but gaining in another. Otherwise, if i'm attracted to her personality but not her figure, then I figure I can just be friends. Why pay for every dinner and plan every romantic date if its a one-way street and I get what I would get if I was a friend and thus there was less stress on me to act the bf? logically, I might as well be a friend, and if their body doesn't turn me on, then i'm not leading them on for the sake of a warm body in my bed. Honestly, if I have to put up with BS and drama and emotions that run from one end of the spectrum to the other end...I just want to be a friend. I don't want to have to explain why I didn't call, why I was a busy doing something I wanted to do rather than sit around listening to her complain about a situation that she could have honestly prevented from having, etc.

For example,I have a female friend right now complaining about her daughter's eventual marriage. The daughter's waited 7 years for a guy making $100,000 to find a ring. His father's accusing her of being a gold digger. well, duh. My friend keeps worrying how the marriage will go, and if there even will be a marriage, if maybe the guy thinks putting a ring on it has stopped the complaining for a while. And meanwhile they are hitting the ex-husband up for $50K to pay for a wedding they could obviously afford, and he's shooting down every venue the daughter wants her perfect wedding to be at. As a mom wanting to be a part of her grown up daughter's life and looking for a new project, she doesn't see how her daughter could have saved up some money over the last 7 years, had control over her own day, maybe dumped this guy for one who really cares enough not to wait 7 years and thus had a better chance for a loving marriage, etc.

Now...as a friend, I can tune all this out. Were I a bf, i'd have to commiserate more. know what I mean? as a friend I can speak more honestly about how this all appears. Do the same as a bf, and oh boy, I would still be hearing it years from now, that I wasn't on my gf's side in these issues, etc. On the flip side, this friend of mine has a wonderful figure for a 58 yr old woman. So, plenty of guys would put up with all this as "the cost of doing business". You can hate that, or you can say that life's just funny that way. I'll bet there's plenty of things (more than just a raised toilet seat) a woman puts up with when dating an attractive man. I know I've heard the stories. Strong relationships are built on what human nature we forgive. Of course, there are plenty of other times my friend's a wonderful friend, and there's plenty of times I enjoy getting a phone call from her and hearing about a wide range of subjects.

But when she picks this one, I want to either tell the truth or exit stage left. I can do either as a friend, but a bf would be betraying her and her emotions if he does. i'd like to say that's not the way it should be, but honestly...we all know of cases where that is the truth. A sexual relationhip is more of an emotional bond due to chemicals released in the brain so that if the couple becomes parents, they might stick together. As her friend, she tells me personal things she wouldn't tell her sisters, and pays me back the money I lend her faster than she pays back her sisters. But its still not the same relationship as she's had w/ bfs, b/c its built on a different foundation. The platonic intimacy is still wonderful. I get to duck all the extra nonsense in her life. When we go clothes shopping, she takes me b/c she wants me to tell her what makes her ass look fat. Its not a bad deal, taken in a vacuum. Especially since my clock isn't ticking :)

there are things I can do as a friend that I couldn't do as a bf. There are things I can do as a bf (like, have sex and cuddle in the afterglow and know that I must be special to her, b/c we did something she doesn't do to friends) that I can't do as just a friend. Both ways to relate to a woman has their benefits, and their costs. We all try to aim a little bit higher than our league, b/c that's the person worth doing the extra work to get. If a fellow's going to screw up his courage and shell out for a date, well, why not do that for the woman who makes his heart flutter? Plus there's that old saw about a bird in the bush and a bird in the hand...we do take for granted the person we think we can have as a lover, and we do take our family for granted thinking they have no choice to be around, while treating our friends better b/c they can leave us. its just human nature and "prisoner's theory" and other ideas that make us choose what we choose and why we choose it.

what we want or need in a person can change over time, or quickly. The times I've dated someone out of my league, was when they changed what they were looking for, or settled, or I grew on them. They broke up with me what they wanted, changed back, or winter was over so they didn't have to settle anymore, or we were sexually incompatable and they could stick with just being a friend. Its probably how some divorces come about--the partners say they've "Fallen out of love", and I can believe it. They don't hate their ex, they've just seen them in a different light than when they were in the honeymoon phase of a relationship and thought getting engaged would be a great solution to getting out of their parents' house and having a kid to love them.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 1223
view profile
History
the highs and the lows
Posted: 10/28/2016 12:23:36 PM

Well, a woman SHOULD look for personality and brains rather than just looks.

Nobody At All is ever even remotely implying that one should go for purely just looks. That concept is a total red-herring! :) It's that Regardless of personality, you will need *something* Legitimately there in physical attraction. Otherwise, you'll be barking up the wrong tree (or fooling yourself that it's the right one).

But, are you guys saying that you’re only “truly attracted” to women with these so-called “hot bodies," and that women your own age and fitness level would be “settling”?

No, that point I believe was about being intimidated/stereotyping those with looks that are more than just Attractive, and saying "f- it", and just rolling in that direction and seeing what pans out once in a while. It's an example that sticks out, as to why Settling on looks isn't a good idea, and how it's Not necessary. No, one doesn't have to find a Clear Hottie to the masses. But ruling out great looking people out of intimidation is not honorable at all. Going for Lower looks than oneself for a comfort-zone reasons is anti-honorable. Anti-brownie points. :)

Point is, you should only go in the direction of people in which you have *some* Physically Attracted to, Off The Bat. It doesn't have to be a lot, doesn't have to make you yearn for them at all. Just don't Settle for the sake to "have someone" because you end up liking their persona. You'd be Misusing the Concept. The concept requires there to be Some physical attraction to Feed off of; to amplify as other characteristics will. Even if it's not pulling you in from the get-go. One would only be fooling themselves out of Desperation to "have someone" if there was a natural, clear "NO" to their physicality in the first place, but wanted to Become physically attracted.

That is, you would get to know them and become more attracted based on their personality. It’s not like one day you would think the guy was nasty, and later that day he’s hot.

My point was not necessarily "nasty" or "gross" -- but UNATTRACTIVE. As in your mind saying "NO" on the pure physical front. If it does, then can switch over because of $$, persona, etc -- without their physicality changing at all nor 10 years or so going by -- then one has some emotional issues. Big difference between that and Lacking a lot of physical attraction to draw one in By Itself, BUT when warming up to someone as a person that amps up all their qualities, including physicality, that the Physicality goes from roughly the Neutral Zone -- to definitely Attractive. But they weren't Unattractive in the first place.

Here's something we agree on: Just because you find/see someone as physically attractive, does not mean you're attracted to them. Nor should it be expected with everyone. I mean, you have attraction to them underneath it all, but with some/many, it won't be enough to draw you in nor possibly even Really 'feel' it. But with some, there can be anti-attraction. Like, say, they're an Ex you really don't like. It blocks and overrides the level of attraction on the physicality, moreso in the negative direction. Another example, in your case, is that he's Objectively Hot. The intimidation + assumptions about him not being attracted to you is going to override the physical attraction you see. This lack of draw to him exists Because you Do see him as physically attractive. You're not Feeling the attraction part though, because of the emotional blockades that are front & center (I'd have no chance, he's [this type] because he's great looking in his fancy shirt, he'd at best only want to fool around even If I ever got that chance, etc).

My point is there is a difference between seeing physical attraction & being drawn to someone. If one doesn't want to be in la-la land, they'll need to at least have -some- physical attraction as 'fertilizer' for actual full attraction. Otherwise, one will be like a gay guy who's going out with a girl who meshes well with him, to fit in.

I was talking about getting to know someone a bit (if they have other good qualities) before writing them off based on looks (again, not being repulsed, but in the so/so range).

I agree on the being PICKY about looks, sure. But if your body is writing them off on looks -- don't go there. Require Something there. Now, some people aren't in touch with themselves. They think that if they don't Feel any Pull of attraction in a physical realm, there's no physical attraction. That's not the case. There's those that physically repulse you (no; like that one date you referred to recently), some in which it's Just Not There in looks (again, No, don't go there) -- and some you can see physical attraction there, but no, you're not drawn to them by just looking at them. If you're good-looking hunting at the time or are picky, that'd be a 'no', but for looking for actual Dating potentials -- yeah, that's a-okay! But again, there's something to feed off of. You see he has physical attractive qualities. There's nothing there in Pull, but again, that's different than assessing their looks from the outside looking in.
 LJane_6
Joined: 6/10/2015
Msg: 1224
view profile
History
the highs and the lows
Posted: 10/28/2016 3:01:52 PM
I thought this was an interesting take on the subject, and one I agree with:

http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/do-you-have-to-feel-instant-attraction-why-its-time-to-stop-acting-like-youre-a-love-psychic/
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 1225
the highs and the lows
Posted: 10/29/2016 7:10:36 AM
I suspect there's a number of people looking to dating as the answer/solution to other problems. They come home from work, tired from the routine, go online in hopes of finding someone hot enough to chase away the doldrums. Or hot enough to be "proof" that someone thinks they are awesome, if that hot enough chooses them. Or maybe they've achieved what they want in life, but something's missing, oh yeah, the person to share it with. Some people might watch a lot of TV shows and movies, where its "instant attraction", and think that's just how things work. Some people might want to be the love psychic to feel they got a benefit from all their smarts.

Alas, in a tendency to "go out there and find it", we might ignore what life has already brought to our doorstep. if we know what we want in life, we may have already surrounded ourselves with the things we enjoy in life. I used to work with a girl who I didn't find physically attractive, but could see how others did. She thought I was too old for her. but we worked together, got along, and she tried to see me outside of work and get me drunk...as i'd later find out, that's how she got her bfs. So, who knows. of course, in retrospect, dating a coworker isn't the best choice. but the thing is, we didn't seek each other out, a workplace put us together and we got along well against the company rules. sometimes, a common enemy helps :) lol

Unfortunately, in making a relationship all about what they get out of it, they create an unhealthy situation. a relationship should be about what two people bring to it, and share together.

in the end, maybe it all is about "getting lucky". the fact we exist at all, could be chalked up to the randomness of our ancestors hooking up.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 1226
view profile
History
the highs and the lows
Posted: 10/29/2016 11:48:26 AM

http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/do-you-have-to-feel-instant-attraction-why-its-time-to-stop-acting-like-youre-a-love-psychic/

I agree with a lot of what's said. I think you being uber-picky (which I think underneath it all is related to a 'type' they exude) + no-date-'luck' should take that to heart. Also, what should be emphasized is that it doesn't mean it opens things up where one feels attraction in the negative range. Sometimes it takes some thought about it and self-evaluation, of Not seeing/finding someone attractive VS the neutral-zone (where there are generic attractive qualities and nothing turns one off in any way; potential). When one who is kinda dateless (or on the rebound) finds themselves Trying to be attracted to someone here and there because on paper they seem just fine & dandy -- that's the first clue they're trying to make something out of nothing.

I suspect there's a number of people looking to dating as the answer/solution to other problems. They come home from work, tired from the routine, go online in hopes of finding someone hot enough to chase away the doldrums.

Online or anywhere else -- but yeah, feeling a void being single for too long. Personally, I like being single. I can meet gals when single and go out on some dates, have fun, etc. It makes one more picky for a Relationship -- because being in an actual Relationship by itself is no accomplishment nor anything to be proud of (unless the other's famous? lol), and one who is 100% content single realizes this. Of course, also with wanting to be in a Relationship for the sake of it underneath it all being dangerous, so is wanting to be Single indefinitely due to negative emotions/POV about Relationships after getting burned too much.
 PrettyBr0wnEyed1
Joined: 7/5/2016
Msg: 1227
Importance of heigh?
Posted: 10/29/2016 11:56:04 AM
I long stopped being focused on height. I am tall, so I think some men can be intimidated by height or strictly want to date short chicks. I once dated a guy who was my height and tried to tell me he didn't want me to heels. He had to go, because I have a great stiletto collection and will not be limited by anyone with an inferiority complex based on height. If I don't judge then he shouldn't either.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 1228
view profile
History
Importance of heigh?
Posted: 10/29/2016 5:01:19 PM

I once dated a guy who was my height [5'8"] and tried to tell me he didn't want me to heels. He had to go, because I have a great stiletto collection and will not be limited by anyone with an inferiority complex based on height.

Well, to be fair, it may not be an inferiority complex (although that can be exposed based on how he went about the concern). Although many guys wouldn't prefer a gal he's out with being in heels way taller than him -- if she's hot in high heels (like you), he'll take it. Although it would be too much to say No heels at all (more like desiring her to keep them at 2" max when dressing up a bit).

I think one thing is not his inferiority complex, but to prevent an superiority/inferiority complex after many times being out with him. With most of the people one dates, it doesn't result in an LTR. So when the gal who likes to wear heels a lot is the same height flat-footed or a little taller, one of two things is always heard afterwards, when looking back:

1) She claims he had a height issue (to what degree, may or may not be fully the case, due to #2....)

2) Looking back she says one issue was that when she was in heels, she was very noticeably taller than him, which over time made her feel weird as she wasn't taller than a ton of other guys when out with him at the same time. I hear this all the time in retrospect.

With #2, it's not instant, but over time and common. So if/when the guy senses she's losing interest for no reason, I think it's good & natural for him to assume #2 is happening to some degree. It's easy to blame the guy, or when one can't, claim the loss of interest is due to other things (when it just amplified other things due to like lessening). This isn't to say a guy should jump the gun on assumption, even when the betting odds would be solidly in his favor... but it is something to bear in mind, so as long as he isn't making a big issue out of it if brought up early on, I wouldn't jump on him. I've seen some guys walk with their gal who was 3" taller than he, while she not really taller than most guys walking around her. I can understand why gals would feel unideal about it, and over time having an effect on their dating experience.
 swampyswampy
Joined: 12/13/2015
Msg: 1229
not the last, hopefully there are many more :)
Posted: 11/3/2016 5:18:33 AM
south_city ive been on tinder about 3 years i swipe yes to everyone in hope someone matches and when they do they are either over 60 or transvestites haha
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 1230
view profile
History
Importance of heigh?
Posted: 11/3/2016 7:47:13 PM
PrettyBrown wrote:



He had to go


OMG....You make it sound so....perfunctory....like a ref tossing a player out of the game. Lol...infraction! Penalty!! *WHistle blowing* The ol' heave ho! You're outta here! Are you wearing ref's stripes when you toss 'em? jDo you also toss a penalty flag prior to informing the poor schlub of his impending doom?!..Can they request a replay review? ;) ;)
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