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 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 326
People who have been single most of their lives.Page 14 of 18    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)
^^

but it's funny, a mixed message.. because really you are saying over & over that a woman is worth only her looks..an ugly guy can 'score" the "ultimate" - a beautiful woman with smoking body..that she might have a sh1tty personality &/or be a moron pretty much irrelevant.
your message..so looks do not matter (for men), but looks are VERY important..for women


all a woman has to do for dating success..is be born beautiful, and/or get plastic surgery & use plenty of makeup to make herself that way. and just sit there & wait ..men can stay physically ugly & dumpy, just be c0cky..& aggressive.. and likely pay for everything, be a whipped beta-boi and raise the alpha guy's kids, but that's a side issue that's been done to death on the Forums

sexist as he11, but that's OK I guess..you don't have any daughters, which might possibly cause you to think differently a little bit?


VV

good point, the Bible advises that..sell your daughters to the highest bidder

VV
 ebolakitty
Joined: 3/19/2016
Msg: 327
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/20/2016 1:58:02 PM

sexist as he11, but that's OK I guess..you don't have any daughters, which might possibly cause you to think differently a little bit?


Why should it cause one to think differently? If you have daughters, why not just sell them off to the nearest land owner and forget about it?
 Inner_Gorilla
Joined: 12/3/2015
Msg: 328
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/20/2016 2:00:24 PM

your message..so looks do not matter (for men), but looks are VERY important..for women

you send the message that an average/plain looking WOMAN could never use your "Jedi mind tricks"/confidence/cockiness, or whatever, to get the guy she wants..


My advice is aimed at men, because I speak from experience about what works for men. I do not know what is most effective for women.

Do ugly girls get the handsome guy? You tell me?

The reality is daunting.
I don't read Cosmo so I have no idea what are the best strategies for women to use.

I do know that a "Jedi mind trick" that is still been used to attract men are ALL physical in nature.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 329
view profile
History
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/20/2016 2:31:37 PM
“Actually, I think that was me.”

Yeah, I knew the quote was you – I meant that tater, who supposedly has read my profile, claimed it was like my posts, in agreement with your suspicions.

“It's easy enough to Google 'pof forums'. That's how I got here.”

Most people would only Google “pof forums” if they already knew that pof forums existed and had forgotten or never knew the exact link. The millions of people that are new to the site since the forums link was taken away about 3 or 4 years ago have no idea that POF has forums – hence the reason the forums population keeps getting smaller and smaller. If you were completely new to the site at the time you originally Googled “pof forums,” then you're one of those rare people that just suspected there were POF forums and lucked out that there were. Most POF users wouldn't think that or care. Just us message board addicts, really.

“I hold every Monday National Sales meetings with the CEO of my company where we talk sales”

You know, you always seemed like somebody who worked in sales, but never knew it before now. I hate sales. Of course, ironically, my immediate supervisor is a sales manager.

“if I get a flat tire and the spare in the trunk is even more flat (that's a reference to the old days when you actually got a real tire), then a positive attitude doesn't change the fact i'm screwed.”

Yup.

“a positive attitude has likely convinced some attractive women to be my friend. but to be a lover? yeah, right.”

I think it’s possible to win a woman over if she doesn’t find you repulsive. I don’t mention this case very often, but I once asked out and hit on one of my attractive co-workers for a year, and she never said no but kept finding excuses and reasons not to date me, number one being the fact that we were co-workers. One day she finally announced she was quitting soon and I asked for a date the first Saturday night after her last day and she actually said “Yes.” I usually say that’s the only time that’s ever worked, but I spent like 3 months getting the model to go out with me, too, but since she apparently had ulterior motives, I don’t think I really accomplished anything there with my persistent positive attitude (interestingly, these two women were back-to-back dates – in fact, I started dating the co-worker at the same time I was still sorta with the model, so, yeah, back in those days I had some balls!).

“speaking of hard work, i'd rather do smart work. hard work only seems to work when you finally get lucky”

Some men worked 80 hours a week in mines and steel mills back in the day. Hard work, but considering how little they got paid, not necessarily smart work. I worked unbelievably hard on my last two movies – they each consumed my entire life for months. Yeah, I’m finally getting paid on the last one, thanks largely to luck, but there are so many other smarter things I could have been doing that would have made more money much faster.

"Do ugly girls get the handsome guy? You tell me? "

Well, there's "My Big Fat Greek Wedding," and "Never Been Kissed" and "She's All That" and... oh, wait, you meant in real life, and the woman actually being truly unattractive instead of just wearing glasses and having a dorky haircut. Well, there's, uh...

“Hawk...if its true that you have a ‘Woe is me’ attitude”

Do any of those collage pictures look like I have a “woe is me” attitude going on? I’m just a statistics regurgitator in these forums. That said, we all have bad days and I’m having one right now so I feel pretty down at the moment...

“But I do agree that even with a high IQ, some people don't necessarily make good choices in their relationships or in their careers.”

Forgot to respond to this earlier. So I was a self-taught middle school computer programming prodigy – my parents didn’t make enough money to buy all the games my brother and I wanted, so I just figured out how to make the games instead. By high school my creative writing talents had come to dominate my interests. So I got to college and had to choose a major. Having been dateless throughout high school and the first couple years of college, I noticed that 90% of computer programming and engineering majors were male while the majority of journalism and English majors were females.

Desperate for dates, I chose journalism. You know how the date part of that worked out (journalism majors tend to be very attractive and shallow). Journalism positions are notoriously low paying unless you’re major on-air talent, hit it big as a writer/producer or climb the ladder into a type-A personality management position, so obviously I really went nowhere in that field. Had I gone with computer programming, I’d probably be making several times as much right now if not a dot.com millionaire and this whole discussion would be moot. Interestingly, my backup plan in the event that nothing came of my journalism degree was law school – even took the LSAT and had good enough scores to get a lot of law school interest, but then decided I hated attorneys and was going to try to make this writer thing work. So the major mistake was outsmarting myself, while the law school mistake was just delusional.
 Inner_Gorilla
Joined: 12/3/2015
Msg: 330
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/20/2016 2:38:36 PM

You know, you always seemed like somebody who worked in sales, but never knew it before now. I hate sales. Of course, ironically, my immediate supervisor is a sales manager.


Not sales. Marketing. Creative.

I used to teach at an advertising school, Portfolio Center.

I am really not that good at sales. Believe it or not, I get nervous. When I sell, it's the big idea, to a CEO, to the VP, to the owner of a company, and the product is something I've created.
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 331
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/20/2016 2:43:14 PM

"Do ugly girls get the handsome guy? You tell me? "

Sometimes. My ex-husband was handsome, personable and charismatic.
I'm none of those things.
Ultimately, he was a catch and release.
These days, I don't look for handsome.
I don't want it; IME (and not just with the ex-), I've met very few handsome men with personality or intelligence.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 332
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/20/2016 2:46:48 PM
Maybe you won't like it, but I recall a cartoon where 1 guy asks, what's the difference between sales and marketing. ?

The response, "sales is selling. Marketing is talking about selling".

At least I found it quite humorous.
 Inner_Gorilla
Joined: 12/3/2015
Msg: 333
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/20/2016 3:06:35 PM

The response, "sales is selling. Marketing is talking about selling".


You're right. But the sales person follows a script, uses a formula of breaking the ice, doing his speal and closing.

In marketing I talk about sales, I tell him what to say, when to say it, what questions to ask, what materials to use, how to close and how to button up so the customer feels happy afterwards.

Sales is boots in the ground. They are very important. Marketing, is carpet booming, followed by tactical air strikes, followed by drones.

You can't finish anything without boots in the ground. So the hero going into the sunset it's the sales guy.

Me, the marketing guy, we're the evil bad guy that keeps coming back in the following sequels.

Hehehehe.
 call_me_tater
Joined: 12/30/2014
Msg: 334
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/20/2016 3:10:37 PM
Well Hawking,

I'll address the parts of your post that apply to me. You attributed several comments to me that I didn't say.


Me:
"I noticed that your first instinct was to try to find a crack and refute instead of accepting the possibility that short men (even shorter than you) could find a woman."

You: When have I ever said that was not possible? If I had said such a thing, someone should have had me committed considering my ex-girlfriend, the model, the other woman besides those two I dated for more than year, the several other women I dated for a few weeks, etc., etc., etc. (see next paragraph). My argument on that subject is more a matter of degree.
You had been lamenting (as you frequently do) that you've had no success with women because of your height.
Since examples from my own life would mean nothing, I chose famous people who were all successful in relationships before fame to show it's not all about height. Your instant reply to that was to negate it and attribute the success to fame.
I believe you do that because it's easier than looking inside yourself.
Stop clinging to the model ex gf like she was proof of something.


Me: “Listen, your attitude comes through in your profile and all your posts and your height is the least of your problems. In my opinion, you are your own worst enemy.”
You: If the real life version of me (not this message board character) is such a misanthrope that no one can stand to be around because of my attitude, then how do you explain all of my friends? I added a couple of collages of me with my friends over the years to my profile – does that look like the kind of person with a real life bad attitude that nobody wants to be around? Look at the wedding picture from a couple years ago – you think some unrelated guy makes me one of his groomsmen if my supposed bad attitude is dragging everybody down and making me an inhospitable person to be around? I also didn’t hear anybody from last summer’s Tampa POF gathering crying about what an awful person to be around I was (I’m pretty sure they posted exactly the opposite).

Of course I know what you’re going to say about the collages: just another example of me having to always prove that I am right. What about that listing of famous short men you just gave me? Isn’t that YOU trying to prove YOU are right? This is a message board – that’s just what people do. Some put effort into it (I’m including you in this case) and some don’t, hence the stupid one sentence responses I get to 5 paragraphs worth of citations and research. Again... message board personality. (Although, I should point out, that’s also my profession: I am a researcher who spends most of his days refuting claims and data. Basically this message board serves as practice for my real life job during down time.)
I think you have self defeating thinking and behavior that is subconscious. It all comes through whether you try to hide it or not. Negativity has a way of doing that.
I don't doubt you have friends and do fun things. No need to prove it and my goal was not to make you defensive.
I never called you a misanthrope.
Everything I've said is related to dating and romantic relationships.


Me: “You know we can't discuss your profile here”

You: My profile and its failures are the one unquestionably real thing about HawkingJr, so feel free to mail me your criticisms (I’m not resurrecting my 8-9 year-old profile review request, and I can’t start new threads). Fortunately we are exactly at the 14 year difference limit. Hope you don’t have a birthday coming up soon, because mine’s not for 8 months.
Your profile is not a failure; it just needs work.
People you know will tell you it's fine because they know you, have experiences with you, see more than the average reader sees, are biased, etc.
For people you don't know, all we have is your writing and pics of happy times that might not be the best for a profile.
I can message you privately or even start a review thread for you; you let me know.

I want you to know I have good intentions and never meant to insult or belittle.
In my life I am a helper and a fixer...probably why I became a nurse and got into dog rescue/behavior, haha.
With a solid psych background, I also tend to be insightful and curious.
I gravitated towards Profile Reviews for that reason, too. I was there for 2 years before I ventured to comment in other forums because of all the hostility flying around (most of those players are gone).

BTW--personality doesn't change in a person with schizophrenia; perhaps you meant DID?
 VikingHoosier
Joined: 5/8/2015
Msg: 335
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/20/2016 3:29:31 PM
If you had gone into computer programming (computer science major at an engineering university), you would probably be making under $10 per hour in a mail room or a Geek Squad, because most software development jobs are given to H-1B visa people from India and Russia. If you did get a job, you would be working 60+ hours a week at a low salary because the sales scum lied to clients about vaporware, so your manager tells you, "Yeah, I'm going to need you to come in on Saturday and Sunday..."

You're right about computer classes being nearly 100% male.

You could create your own program, but a program's success is based more on marketing $ than on a program's quality.

Easiest way to discover the forums: link to regional POF events from the desktop site, then that page has a link to the forum for your state or province or country, where there is a link to all forums.

There are some bodacious babes in journalism school, but they're not all shallow. The airheads might try to be an anchor. There are smart journalism roles behind the scenes.
 flman2015
Joined: 10/3/2015
Msg: 336
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/20/2016 3:57:06 PM


If you had gone into computer programming (computer science major at an engineering university), you would probably be making under $10 per hour in a mail room or a Geek Squad, because most software development jobs are given to H-1B visa people from India and Russia.


Any halfway decent programmer makes at the very least $20 an hour (and that is exceptionally low.) Programmers from India, Russia and China can only affect the most mediocre local programmers, competent programmers are not affected at all.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 337
view profile
History
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/20/2016 4:28:15 PM
“So the hero going into the sunset it's the sales guy.”

And also the guy making the most money. One of our salespersons told me his commission-based salary last week, and I have no doubt he’s making more than twice what our marketing director makes – maybe close to as much as the GM! Now there’s not much doubt I’m smarter than this guy – he’s even said that himself and so have most of our salespeople. But I just do not have that BS-ing personality the successful salespeople here (and most everywhere) have that both gets them in the door and closes the deals. I’ve done a pretty good job of selling my movie projects to those who eventually participated including investors – made some impressive presentations, far more impressive than most of those I’ve put together at my real job. Which is a pretty good selling point for being passionate about what you do, because you can’t usually do a great job of selling something you don’t believe in.

I’ve set you all up. Come on! Throw my quote back in my face! I’ll be so proud!

Viking: I’m more inclined to believe my fellow Florida Man than you on computer programming salaries. My cousin graduated from MIT with a computer programming degree and was hired straight into Microsoft for $80k in the late 90s. That’s about $25 an hour (assuming 60 hours a week as you say). And in the 90s. Of course, he was also a genius (MUCH smarter than me) and went to MIT.

“You're right about computer classes being nearly 100% male.”

That’s the problem with thinking in the present rather than the future. I wanted a date in college and was apparently willing to sacrifice impressing future dates to have one then. That said, I really did like writing stories than writing code at that point, so it wasn’t entirely a date-based decision, but if I had it to do again, I’m pretty sure I would have done things differently, given what I know now about women.

“There are some bodacious babes in journalism school, but they're not all shallow. The airheads might try to be an anchor. There are smart journalism roles behind the scenes.”

“Shallow” was probably incorrectly used and I usually stop myself from doing it – you can’t help who you’re attracted to. But the point is, nearly every female journalism classmate I had was glamour-style attractive and looking to date hunks, anchors, future lawyers/doctors, etc., so that probably wasn't the best place for me to be looking for dates -- both then and now, because I'm still surrounded by the exact same types of women and I've never come close to dating a co-worker at this particular job (the situation mentioned above was a different job not in this industry).

“I don't doubt you have friends and do fun things.”

So this could make an interesting topic: how you can you be a fun person with a lot of friends that nobody wants to date? Actually, I’ve known a few of those – nearly all of them were what I would consider to be unattractive. I’m not saying that is the case with me. But in the case of the girls on that list, I thought they were cool to hang out with but no amount of personality was going to make me want to date them. (It should also be noted when I was with my ex, a significant number of women did want to date me... but I was trapped with my ex. As soon as we broke up, they all disappeared.)

“People you know will tell you it's fine because they know you, have experiences with you, see more than the average reader sees, are biased, etc.”

People in the forums, including some who strongly dislike me, have also said it’s good. I remember a few weeks ago Chromis was tearing me limb-from-limb when Coma told me my profile was terrible and Chromis did a quick 180 to tell Coma that my profile was the one thing he was wrong about before Chromis returned to tearing me to pieces about other things.

“Stop clinging to the model ex gf like she was proof of something.”

“gf” is probably stretching it. I’m pretty sure I’ve never referred to her as that. Don’t confuse the model I dated erratically for over a year with my actual ex-girlfriend of two years. Or for that matter, the woman I dated on-and-off for a year between the two of them that also modeled briefly. However, I will say having dated three models/modelesque women for over a year each almost back-to-back-to-back seems as if it’s proof of something. I’m not sure what, other than I was a lot luckier 10 to 15 year ago than I have been the last 9.

“personality doesn't change in a person with schizophrenia”

I’m sure I meant dissociative identity disorder. Sorry.

“I can message you privately or even start a review thread for you; you let me know.”

I think you should just write me. You know exactly what’s going to happen if there’s a thread dedicated to that topic (pretty much the same thing that happened the first time around). Again, obviously the collage pics are going to be deleted when all this “proof I have a life” stuff is over, although I suppose they do give you some insight into what my life is like for profile writing purposes. Or in the case of the second group, what it used to be like back in the “girlfriend era” (she is in the majority of those pics – shouldn’t be too hard to figure it out. My second best friend might be a little more difficult to figure out but she’s in several collage pictures. Neither the model nor the “other model” are in any of those pictures -- I don't really have a lot of pictures of them with me, just many of them by themselves or with other people).
 NJgirl116
Joined: 7/3/2015
Msg: 338
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/20/2016 4:36:08 PM
Hawking, how do you have time to type out these long posts?
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 339
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/20/2016 4:43:03 PM
I'll agree, negativity has a predictable result. unless luck steps in. Practice might make me the best golfer I can be, but Tiger Woods? no amount of positive thought or practice is going to undo the hand-eye coordination or outright ineptitude that I was born with. The sports gene, I just ain't got. but there are other fields, I might just give you a run for the money. If I want a woman bad enough, will asking her out 1,000 times get her to say yes? Highly doubt it, but it might get me a restraining order :) Oh, maybe some women will be worn down, but is that the foundation for a healthy relationship? "At first she didn't want to date me, but I kept bugging her until her panties fell off". But then, I've never asked a woman out more than 3 times...the answer is always the same. maybe 5th time lucky?

I'm not sure the way to market my way into a woman's pants. I'd like to think she's smart enough to make up her own mind. Admittedly, i'd rather not have to sell her the idea i'm sexy, i'd like it if she saw it with her own eyes that I was desireable. I wrote a book, and the solution to getting turned down was to go right around the problem, and self publish. sometimes, that's how problems get solved--do an end run. Its hard to do an end run around a woman who doesn't think my bald head or middle aged gut sexy...or at least it is for me. I used to consider one of my relationships as a friend who decided to become a lover, yet we met initially when she walked up to me one day and started talking...maybe that means she was mildly attracted since the beginning, and at a later time I was in the right place at the right time, when she needed something more.

everyone's milage may vary. But I agree on the importance of the salesman. You can have all the ideas you want, you can have all the leadership skills you can learn....its the rainmaker who brings in the money, that determines whether the business stays in business or folds. My father used to work for Control Data before it took a dive, working a contract with Boeing for "factory of the future", and creating patented ideas. But the sales team wasn't bringing in any new contracts, so no incoming cash means, no business.

everyone likes to think they are the most important cog. but you know the difference between business and charity? one makes a profit. ideas don't make money come thru the front door. making sales, makes money come thru the front door. otherwise you live off stock sales and bank loans and VC/investors dumping in cash.

hard work vs. smart work: allegedly, Warren Buffet decides what opportunities to invest in, by deciding whether or not there's a better place to park his money. if there's a better opportunity, then he's going to loose potential income with the first opportunity. doesn't matter what the rate of return is on the first one, he doesn't want to lose the return the second opportunity offers. that's working smart rather than hard--you only have so many hours in the day to work. BUT, of course, not everyone can produce the same output in those hours. work at what you are best at, yet gives you the most return.

see Hawkie? we both write long posts, but I get ignored and you get noticed :) lol, jk NJ Nice collages on your profile, Hawkie, seems like you're hogging all the hotties. no wonder there's not enough for the rest of us :)
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 340
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/20/2016 5:00:19 PM
Different types of intelligence, perhaps, IQ, EQ, all that.
The stereotyped sales type, "dumb", but makes plenty of money, has plenty of choices of women.
The quiet "genius", highly intelligent type, who maybe has neither.
Wayne Dyer used to say the most intelligent people are the ones who enjoy life the most.

Think about it..you only get one, it's not a dress rehearsal.
Is it more "intelligent" to ace a PhD . At an Ivy League school, and be lonely, or be the sales type, enjoying

Is it a goal to have " he was an intelligent guy" carved in your tombstone?
Or to have people say, yeah, he's a loner..but so intelligent. ??
 ndm147
Joined: 8/1/2013
Msg: 341
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/20/2016 9:52:07 PM
This thread has become a reality tv show. Hawking is a central character. Many of the other women and men are also pivotal to the plot. Chromis is good at advising. NJ Girl gets her spotlight on center stage, often when she becomes introspective, yet can get the audience to laugh at her off the cuff remarks. We are not the Kardashian's because as far as I know, we don't have anyone lurking in the shadows waiting to transgender into a different sex. When that topic comes up on another thread, people will be there with opinions for sure!

I have immensely enjoyed this thread by the way!

Hawking, write us a screen play.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 342
view profile
History
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/21/2016 6:12:18 AM
“Hawking, how do you have time to type out these long posts?”

No sleep, baby. No sleep. Get up at 5AM every morning to run a couple of miles, go to sleep after midnight every night (if it’s a party night, after 5AM, so 24 hours straight awake!). In between, I work 10-17 hours and spend 5+ hours writing, including OLD and this damn message board. You can accomplish many, many things when you don’t let a silly thing like sleep get in your way. (I’ll probably be dead before 50. I mean, by natural causes – although murder or suicide continues to seem pretty likely, too.)

“I'm not sure the way to market my way into a woman's pants.”

I always feel like I’m getting conflicting signals on this. On the one hand, most women expect a man to have to earn their interest (jumping through hoops), but on the other, most women also don’t want to be some kind of game and for everything to unfold naturally, with many saying there is nothing most men can do to make them like them – they just will (though it is certainly possible for a man to make a woman who did like him NOT like him). On a related topic, marketing can make a bad product look good, but only by being misleading. I feel like most of my dates have been the result of misdirection, so apparently I’m good at marketing, but only with inexperienced consumers (hence, all my dates being under 26, and most 17-20). I have an interesting VERY recent example of that coming in a post in another thread...

“see Hawkie? we both write long posts, but I get ignored and you get noticed”

That’s because my character is controversial and insane while yours is rational and sublime.

“Nice collages on your profile, Hawkie, seems like you're hogging all the hotties. no wonder there's not enough for the rest of us :)”

It felt that way 10 years ago during the “Girlfriend Era” when most of those girls were single, but the more recent era, most of them are married, so it’s just all a tease (although a flipped tease, since when the girls were single, I wasn’t!). Both of my best friends are taking me out this weekend with some of their girlfriends to “celebrate” tomorrow’s 9 year anniversary of my last date (really, they just don’t want me to be alone and depressed about it), so I expect a few more wild and crazy pics.

“Hawking, write us a screen play.”

I wrote a screenplay based on the characters on a message board I participated frequently in during the late 90s. It’s so ridiculous and entertaining, it’s usually among the favorites of those who’ve read a lot of my screenplays, especially those who were that message board’s regulars (I think they appreciated the fact that I made my character in the screenplay as absurd as my character on the message board). It will probably never get produced because it’s a sci-fi set on Mars (which was a substitute for the unique message board environment we exist in) and estimated budget is over $50M so I’d have to actually get a studio to take it on, which means I’d really have to be something, and I’m getting pretty old to become something in that field. Most of my other screenplays are lower budget independent projects that could possibly be privately funded.

My production company is pretty much done with short films but we’ve been considering doing one similar in style to the afore-mentioned message board-inspired screenplay that would based on the comments section of Yahoo and Fox News, which was my director’s idea but I thought it was so brilliant that I wrote a screenplay for it. Then we got into an argument over the ending and decided it was best to put that one aside for a while less we destroy our partnership over a freakin’ short (again).
 Inner_Gorilla
Joined: 12/3/2015
Msg: 343
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/21/2016 6:53:09 AM

I wrote a book, and the solution to getting turned down was to go right around the problem, and self publish.


You're right, GTO we always seem to be going after Halkings, but he is so cutely self deprecating that he sets himself up for it. ON the above statement. I've known a lot of people that have self published, and I have also been to a lot of writers conferences and this is what the talk is. If you have a how-to, or something that talks about a particular business, self publishing is actually the best way to get it out. However, if you are into fiction, self publishing is the kiss of death. Unless your book is very successful nobody is going to pick it up or bankroll your next novel. Because of the kindle and now other forms of electronic publishing, the industry has become more about distribution than just binding a bunch of pages together.

I have to admit that I have been horrible at self marketing. I used to have a website with all my short stories and where they could ask to read unpublished material. But it didn't do a thing, so eventually I deleted it. I am getting ready to build another site like that again, using WordPress as the format.


Its hard to do an end run around a woman who doesn't think my bald head or middle aged gut sexy...or at least it is for me. I used to consider one of my relationships as a friend who decided to become a lover, yet we met initially when she walked up to me one day and started talking...maybe that means she was mildly attracted since the beginning, and at a later time I was in the right place at the right time, when she needed something more.


This is good stuff dude. It's what works for you. But the formula is still the same. First you break the ice and make the woman feel comfortable and safe around you. Then you connect and find points of attraction. You did the right thing by not trying to come across as sexy but rather as you. In the end, I believe women are more attracted about how a man makes her feel inside than how he looks. How he looks also means that she may lose the man anytime. Many attractive women hate dating attractive guys because they know that at some point they are going to cheat on them. So they prefer more stable normal guys that will stay committed to the relationship.


see Hawkie? we both write long posts


I think there's another element to this. I can type super fast, and if I have an idea I can put down 3 pages on one sitting without blinking an eye. Realistically, I spend more time editing than actually writing. When I post crap in the forums, I hardly edit, so yeah, it's full of typos.


But I agree on the importance of the salesman. You can have all the ideas you want, you can have all the leadership skills you can learn....its the rainmaker who brings in the money, that determines whether the business stays in business or folds.


I have to agree with this statement. I have sales people that really make four times my salary. They get up early and watch the clinics and meeting that we produce, then spend their day going out to their sales calls and by the time they do paper work it's midnight. They make a ton of money, but at what price.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 344
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/21/2016 7:04:42 AM
^^
Most people who "succeed" are into sales at one level or another. While not selling directly to customers, you, IG must "sell " them on your ideas right? That you are producing good ideas for them to use. Parents "sell" their kids on the idea of going to bed, or whatever. The best teachers sell enthusiasm in the subject matter. Top lawyers are something of sales people, selling clients on the idea that they are the best lawyer for them. Some doctors, especially for elective procedures like cosmetic surgery, are sales people.
Some are a little more subtle than others, but most sell..not alll sales people are the stereotypical "hard sell" types.
Politicians sell the idea that they are the best person for the position.
If you were ever hired for a job, or had a relationship, you likely sold yourself at least a little.
If you have negotiated a price on a purchase/sale, each party was selling the idea that their proposed price was the more realistic/relevant/reasonable one.
 Inner_Gorilla
Joined: 12/3/2015
Msg: 345
People who have been single most of their lives.
Posted: 4/21/2016 7:57:02 AM

Most people who "succeed" are into sales at one level or another. While not selling directly to customers, you, IG must "sell " them on your ideas right?


Absolutely.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 346
No sleep 'til Brooklyn, Hawk man
Posted: 4/21/2016 9:26:19 AM
Jeez, Hawk-block, you're like that old Army commercial--you get more done by 9am than most people get done all day. I used to be like that when I was in college and busy, but those days are gone. My late godfather had a plaque on his wall that declared:

"if you want something done....ask the busy man. No one else has the time"

I had to grow up to understand the truth of that. Busyness is the motherhood of organization.

as for Mack-daddy marketing, I think we all want to be desired by a person who will work a little hard for us, and yet not use us in the end for free dinner or nookie. we want it to feel natural, b/c we hate to be sold (ever walk thru a mall, and some dweeb standing outside a store or kiosk starts moving into your path? it could be a coincidence, but you just *know* you're about to get a sales pitch for something you're not the least bit interested in paying for. But if you came to the mall to actually buy that product? then you're glad you don't have to search for a salesperson half your age and bored...duuuuuude). In our dreams, we want to be seduced by some hottie who could ditch us in a second and date someone else...in reality, we know we'd be comfortable with someone more in our league. someone who's a little more put together than us, having a better hair day than us, if that person came on to us--then it feels natural, not a sales pitch with another shoe to drop after we've signed on the dotted line.

"That’s because my character is controversial and insane while yours is rational and sublime."

>>>that's no small observation there, Bucko. Contro and nuts is exciting and attractive. Rational is a status we expect things to be, and sublime is just another fruit flavor that goes unnoticed. the Chinese might think, "may you live in exciting times" is a curse, but have you ever met a babelicious brunette who sighed, "why can't I just find a routine guy stuck in a rut?". Or, a bombshell bar bimbo gushing to her girlfriend, "gosh, I wasn't impressed with the size between his thighs, but OMG, the size of the organ betwixt his ears brought me to tears!"

as for the good old days, when dating was easier b/c people weren't married yet....yeah, I feel that way, too. that's why the real estate agent always advises, "get a lot while you're young."

IG, you're spot on about how-to books being the right thing for self publishing--my first book was on how to do better in college, after watching my peers have what the Orientals call "no clucking foo". there are some fairy tale stories told at night, of the writer so talented, they self published and launched so hard, the pub houses ran to catch up. these people are as rare as they are talented. Like the hottie, they were blessed with the right genes and didn't let them go to waste.

Also true, the point about breaking the ice and making her feel safe around you. This can be the start of a great friendship, and a sexual relationship, too. But, of course, if she ain't buying what you're offering, then all you get is one word responses, and its time to move on to the next person. not to be argumentative or anything :) I've worked fast and I've worked slow, but I've never worked on someone not interested. The example I gave, I wasn't interested in her initially (petite, flat chested), so I wasn't flirting with her, and then years later she wanted to cheat on her bf she had gotten sick of, and knew I wouldn't tell our group of friends. So, right place, right time, and was a case of "getting lucky".

A woman might have a ONS with a hot guy, but I think you're right, she'll only have a relationship with a guy who makes her feel the right way in her head and heart. every now and then, we guys want to poke our pecker into something sweet, but we too also like to have a relationship, even if its just for verification that a woman wants to stick around afterward.

meanwhile, appropo of utterly nothing, I fell in love with the cable TV show "Mad Men" in its first season, showing marketing. The first episode, when Donnie boy pulls out of his keister a new way to sell cigarettes--"advertising is a sign that tells you no matter what you're doing....its OK." Or shilling a piece of plastic as the Carousel b/c it takes you to any point of your memories. They ended up having a reference to what was going on in the lives of the characters, but the creativity it takes to sell someone something they don't know they want....it reminds you that humans are the most intelligent animals.

Still...if you live to sell, then you enjoy that. If you love to tinker, then access to a full lab means more to you than a golden handshake. Oh sure, money is nice, but you really want to flex your mental muscles. You want that thrill of solving the problem no one else can. You enjoy creating *something* out of a pile of nothing.

 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 347
view profile
History
No sleep 'til Brooklyn, Hawk man
Posted: 4/21/2016 11:08:33 AM

VikingHoosier
If you had gone into computer programming (computer science major at an engineering university), you would probably be making under $10 per hour in a mail room or a Geek Squad, because most software development jobs are given to H-1B visa people from India and Russia.


flman2015
Any halfway decent programmer makes at the very least $20 an hour (and that is exceptionally low.) Programmers from India, Russia and China can only affect the most mediocre local programmers, competent programmers are not affected at all.


The truth lies somewhere in between. I worked for 30 years in IT, mostly as a programmer. I wrote in many computer languages, for Sperry Univac mainframes, IBM mainframes, Cray supercomputers, various unix workstations, and PCs running DOS and then Windows. These days, there are fewer and fewer jobs for programmers here in the states. The vast majority of new software development is in India and China, with some in the Philippines and a little in South America.

There are a few jobs left here in the states for programmers, but mostly in maintenance, not development. And most programmers hate doing maintenance. I myself now work in a support role, rather than programming. I would rather be doing programming, even maintenance programming, but I could not find a job. This support gig is pretty good, beats the hell out of being a door greeter at WalMart!

On the subject of salesmen making a lot of money: Yes, it is true. I came to realize that back in 1971. While still in college, I got a job selling Kirby vacuum cleaners door-to-door. I was not good at it, but I still made more money at that than any other part time job I held while in school. And the guys who were good at it – ridiculous how much money they made!

And some of the side benefits of door-to-door sales…
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 348
No sleep 'til Brooklyn, Hawk man
Posted: 4/21/2016 11:40:48 AM
^^^^^^^^^
I get e-mails every single day with at least 15 postings for programming jobs. These are the most popular remote job opportunities.

In addition, my boyfriend is a Software Engineer and he often runs into issues when trying to hire a developer because.....

1. They are not familiar with half the stuff they state in their resume, so when asked specific questions, they fail.
2. All the good ones are already taken and are not able to take on more projects.

There is a shortage of good developers.............anywhere in the world......at this time. There is a lot of information one is required to know in order to be decent or good, so it's not like one is churned out every few minutes.

Yes, most of the people he works with are from India, yet the issue is not their location, its their level of expertise and ability to get the job done. If there were loads of good developers here in the USA, the job would be theirs, but again..............there is a shortage....so the job gets outsourced.

vvvvvvvv

He certainly faces communication issues with the team in India, but they sort of work through it and manage them. It works much the same way you stated, American hours, in teams, and they communicate and show each others work by accessing each other's screens and loading to servers.

But the issue remains.........if there were an amenity of good developers here in the USA, where communication is seamless, the hours are standard, and educational background can be easily verified....................the jobs would not be outsourced.
 Inner_Gorilla
Joined: 12/3/2015
Msg: 349
No sleep 'til Brooklyn, Hawk man
Posted: 4/21/2016 12:00:06 PM

Yes, most of the people he works with are from India, yet the issue is not there location, its their level of expertise and ability to get the job done. If there were loads of good developers here in the USA, the job would be theirs, but again..............there is a shortage....so the job gets outsourced.


Here's another factor. Many companies, such as the one were I work, have IT management people here in the States while having teams working abroad. We worked with Indians before, but didn't communicate well with them. Then switched to a Chinese crew and they messed up things so much we had to get rid of them. We settled with the Philippines. We have an office there. They work American hours. That means the go to work at night over there. We have a room in HQ where there are a series of computers attached to skype and other programs. Some of the work they do over there and upload it to our servers, other work they connect to a computer here and do it directly in a computer here. We have a different crew doing different things in Colombia and also Mexico.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 350
view profile
History
No sleep 'til Brooklyn, Hawk man
Posted: 4/21/2016 2:29:43 PM
“These days, there are fewer and fewer jobs for programmers here in the states.”

Understand, I graduated from college in the 90s – that was a much different environment than now. Which is not to say I might not be in the same boat as you now, but my original statement on this matter that started this discussion referred to choosing my major during my college years, not choosing a major right now. I remember reading an article during that period stating that computer science was the best major for getting a high paying job right out of school, and I just laughed at it and said, I’m so smart, I could major in humanities and make a million a year.

The arrogance of youth. Speaking of which...

“as for the good old days, when dating was easier b/c people weren't married yet....yeah, I feel that way, too. that's why the real estate agent always advises, ‘get a lot while you're young.’”

You know how much bigger my dating pool would be if most 20-year-olds wanted to date someone my age?

I’ve never understood those who recommend young people to not bother dating when they are young but concentrate on school, so you can graduate from college and get a good job and solidify your career, THEN start looking for someone to date and eventually marry. Yeah, waiting until about 30 to find that special someone might work if everybody else did the same thing, but few people do, and this is a competition – musical chairs, and you better make sure there’s still a chair for you when the music stops playing.

This whole “there’s somebody for everybody” philosophy is, of course, malarkey, because that’s statistically impossible, but even if it was true, just because there’s somebody for you doesn’t mean there also aren’t other people for that somebody and he/she isn’t going to wait around for you if he/she doesn’t know you exist, and good luck running into that one and only somebody if he’s in Boston and you’re in Kansas. Some want to say they’ll never “settle,” but we all end up with the best person we can find at any particular time – there is almost always somebody better somewhere in this vast world of 7 billion people. Though I deride many of my classmates for marrying their high school sweethearts, most of them are still together, so I’d say that strategy paid off for them. The younger you become addicted to someone “special,” probably the better (obviously, there are some bad people to be addicted to) because at least you want have to be dealing with the mess most of us here are dealing with: trying to find anyone left to date that’s worth dating after compiling a lifetime’s worth of prejudices and preferences and deal breakers. Quite frankly, if you don’t end up being a very rich man or attractive woman, I think you’re asking for trouble if you don’t find “the one” by age 25.
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