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 lilydreams
Joined: 3/4/2016
Msg: 226
Gorgeous Women over 50Page 10 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)

Abelian used to advise men on this site to pay for it if they needed to, in order to avoid coming off as desperate. Women can smell desperation on a man, and it is a very powerful anti-attractant. I have advised men (on here, and in real life) to "date down", for the same reasons. Get over being desperate, get in some practice at the basic social skills, get comfortable (after a 20 or 30 year hiatus) with the whole idea of dating.


I "partially" agree with what Henry says - "....get in some practise at the basic social skills, get comfortable (after a 20 or 30 year hiatus) with the whole idea of dating"

I think this is good advice. I remember those first dozen or so dates and I'll be the first to admit, looking back, that those guys were my "practise rounds". Then I settled in, the nervousness, etc. subsided somewhat, I was honing on what I was looking for. It's tough after 20 or 30 years to dress up, try and be witty and charming and maybe even flirt with a stranger . Have a stranger want to hold your hand or try and kiss you goodnight. So, yes, thanks for my practise guys....one I still meet for dinner every couple of months as friends.
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 227
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 4/30/2016 9:57:49 AM
I dunno there might be something to this ladder thing.....


I was just outside cleaning my gutters.....listening to "Work from home" by Fifth Harmony on my ipod.....and standing at the bottom of my ladder thinking how nice it would be to be looking up at some hot guy on the top rung.

Awe heck....I don't even mind if the Hot guy holds the ladder while I'm on the top rung. Hope it's Saturday, though.....and not Monday. Special panties vs. Tattered ones and all. :D
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 228
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Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 4/30/2016 10:42:29 AM

Anyone who is comparing themselves to others and establishing "leagues" as a result is bound to find himself/herself in a lower league (narcissists excepted of course) thereby negatively affecting their self esteem.

One isn't Establishing anything -- just recognizing big differences between people, including themselves or just people watching. That's all that it is, and we all recognize it not-so-consciously anyway. One's not any more apt to realize those as less catches than Better ones. Take it how it is. My point is that people sensitive to this notion, with a "PC Police" badge, would be the ones lacking a self-esteem -- because they fear, as you put it, thinking of themselves in a lower league or something, and can't handle it. The guy who plays Superman -- he's out of my league. So? Am I crying? Are you crying? No. Why all the fuss and this "everyone gets a trophy" mentality, and an attitude like South Park's new principal? :)

The fallacy of "scales"/"leagues" is evident given the fact that someone who is a "9" in the eyes of one person may very well be a lowly "5" in the eyes of another

There's subjectivity to it, sure -- but it's not at all random by any means. Otherwise movie stars and models wouldn't be looking as good. You'd see a 250lb or mashed face gal not as a comedian or a role like Carla, but playing the role as the damsel in distress. And it's not how *I* or *you* view someone, but it's an assessment about how much Society as a whole on average finds them attractive. The results are nothing like everyone comes out as a 5.

What makes them out of their "league" ?... looks ?... are good looks a necessary ingredient in a successful relationship ?

If a gal's out of a guy's league, it means she can Easily get a guy who's at least a bit of a better catch than he is. A clear & very apparent "You can do better". That's what it means. Looks is the biggest factor usually. Popularity/fame/riches/class -- that can play a big role if/when applicable. Like average Joe sees an above-average cute gal, but she lives in a trailer raising 5 kids from 4 different dads who aren't around while working at 711 and on food stamps. So no, looks isn't everything on how much of a catch you are. Many times though, there's not anything big that sticks out (living in trailer raising 3 kids on stamps; high-level exec making $800k a year engaged in a higher-class social bubble).

The other obvious problem with "scales"/"leagues" is that it doesn't take into account other personal characteristics which are determinant factors in a successful relationship.

It doesn't try to be. That's not what it applies to. Doesn't apply to compatibility or romanticism. If Person A is out of Person B's league, "they can do better" comes to mind without thinking much about it, when comparing those two uninvolved people.

I'm not sure what "shake the tree" means in that sentence but, if a man's interest in a particular woman is that low then, he shouldn't be dating her at all.

Shaking the tree -- meaning shaking them out of their plans -- canceling their plans they otherwise normally wouldn't. If one's booked on Sat night, no, I don't think a girl's only worthy of dating if and only if you're willing to cancel virtually all plans to land a date with her. This concept doesn't at all imply one has plans on Fri/Sat night to watch reruns of Murder She Wrote.

^^^^ a lot simpler, not to mention effective, than the Gordian knot of "leagues" and "scales" nonsense.

I disagree, it's the other way around. It's much simpler to go by 1-10 than use of adjectives that can vary in meaning. With 1-10, it's more precise in what you mean. But some people may get butt-hurt by that notion, because I think some sensitive people don't like it, as they may guilt-by-association attach it to superficiality, jerks, judgemental folks, etc?
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 229
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 4/30/2016 11:50:30 AM


Sometimes, dating is simply for fun and getting to know people. I think this is what Henry is talking about when he says some men should date simply to learn how to act on a date. Dating both up and down the ladder without expectations for anything other than a good time doing something with enjoyable company without expectations of anything more.


That was not what Henry said, at all. He said men should "date down" so they can use the less desirable women for practice in learning the necessary social skills so as not to come across as desperate and repellent to the women they really want. He didn't say anything about dating these women for a good time and enjoyable company, nor did he say anything about there being no expectations on the man's or woman's part.

My interpretation and expansion on the most relevant part of what Henry said as run through my life's experiences and filters. Yes, not the most coherent paragraph I've posted but if I was saying the exact same thing he was saying, I wouldn't have posted anything.


And let me add this about ladders. Ladders do exist. Ladders, scales, leagues, yes, they exist. Those who would argue against them often try to refute their existence by pointing out that different people have different ideas about where one particular person fits on the ladder. This does not refute the existence of the ladder, it just means that everyone has their very own idea of the ladder, and where others fit.


Ladders and leagues exist only because people believe they exist and become locked into that belief - like not seeing an optical illusion until someone points it out and then you can't return to the state where you can't see it. People want to fit everything and everyone into some easy-to-describe category even if there really is no relevant category. All good men are not 10s; all 10s are not good men.
Date that way if you wish.

EDIT: I like KJ's ladder... with a guy on top.
I seem to be in the minority regarding ladders/scales/leagues/hierarchies, etc. but enough about ladders from me. As far as I'm concerned, ladders are in the crypt with a stake through the heart.
 Chromis1
Joined: 9/9/2015
Msg: 230
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Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 4/30/2016 12:09:57 PM

EDIT: I like KJ's ladder...


Wouldn't be my choice, but preferable to Jacob's ladder.
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 231
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 4/30/2016 1:07:17 PM
^^^^^Hey....you can modify my ladder to have the woman of your choice on top. It's all good. :D


I truly do get the whole ladder....leagues thing....I do. Human beings love to cateragorize. In fact, it is necessary to our survival. But it doesn't mean I have to adhear to it. I guess my life experiences have shown me that a person's character is not a determinant of their attractiveness.....but their attractiveness, in my eyes, is a determinant of their character.

So your method of categorization is meaningless to me. But hey....do what works for you. I just hope that in the process of seeking our own happiness......we don't intentionally hurt others that's all. :)
 2beetoo
Joined: 4/20/2016
Msg: 232
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 4/30/2016 1:54:47 PM
^^^^ There are many ladders (apologize if repeating what has already been said, I have not read this thread).

They are based on (1) Looks (2) intelligence (3) education, (4) (job or occupation) (5) wealth and yes (6) age, especially when it comes to women.

The good thing about the USA is any person is capable of of moving up or down ladders because your ladder is not cast in stone when born.

I went to high school with a guy I remember well. He was a Dork at best, and probably a two on the 1-10 scale of attractiveness. He was way down the ladder in the High School Hierarchy. He had no girls interested in him in highschool, and it is highly unlikely he had a girl friend in college. He was smart . . .but not overly so. He went to a respectable University, but far from the Ivy League.

He is now the CEO of a highly successful company, with huge growth over the last five years. Given how its stock price has done, and knowing how these CEO's load themselves down with cheap options, etc., he has got to be worth mega millions.

His wife is also very, very pretty and a well regarded poet.

The guy is still ugly as sin however and I do wonder how his wife goes to bed with him every night. But obviously she did not believe she was marrying down.
 SLAFFA
Joined: 8/13/2007
Msg: 233
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 4/30/2016 2:01:18 PM
"Ladders" are simply Human Nature at work for "most" Humans and no amount of denial or endless Forum obfuscation is going to change that. Anyone who can tear themselves away from these Forums long enough can probably search online or at their local library and find the episode of Brain Games that clearly illustrated this beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Confidence in either sex regardless of their level of "attractiveness" is the great equalizer.

But... REAL confidence can only be gauged when F2F.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 234
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Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 4/30/2016 2:32:23 PM

Ladders and leagues exist only because people believe they exist and become locked into that belief - like not seeing an optical illusion until someone points it out and then you can't return to the state where you can't see it.

The concept of people being better or worse catches (having more/less market value in the dating scene as a whole) than others exists regardless of what people want to believe. The concept of a 'ladder' or 1-10 scale is a human construct way of abbreviating/simplifying the concept, is all.

As far as "ladders" that's a bit different, girls have 2 ladders, guys have one. Girls have a friendship ladder of guys (closer friends), and a dating ladder of guys (based on appeal). Guys will think they're on the dating ladder with a gal sometimes, but really in the friendship ladder. When he realizes this and tries to jump from the friendship ladder to the dating ladder, he usually falls into the abyss below.

http://laddertheory.com/
 hemingway234
Joined: 6/6/2015
Msg: 235
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 4/30/2016 2:32:38 PM
Dating down is very smart. Most beautiful people are high maintenance.

Beauty fades with age but personality is forever. Besides, if you fall in love with someone, they'll look better to you than they really are! Love is a beautiful thing.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 236
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 4/30/2016 3:18:30 PM
"Beauty fades with age but personality is forever."

I never bought into the philosophy of rejecting someone because they're beautiful now, but some day they won't be as beautiful, so you might as well stick with someone who is ugly now, and will always be ugly.
Personality is forever, but will that personality change over time? Ask people who are divorced or others who have gone through a bad break-up if personality is forever.
 flman2015
Joined: 10/3/2015
Msg: 237
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 4/30/2016 3:22:09 PM
NG



One isn't Establishing anything -- just recognizing big differences between people


Another clear fallacy. If you were just recognizing the differences between people you wouldn't be grading them from 1 to 10. Is green a 5 and blue a 7 ? ... no, they are just green and blue.

Whenever you grade something or someone you are establishing a level of desirability. There is no going around that.

If someone is grading themselves against others, they will always have the undesirable "surprise" of being less than someone else. In other words, they are setting themselves up for their self esteem and, often somebody else's self esteem, to take a hit.



There's subjectivity to it, sure.....
....
With 1-10, it's more precise in what you mean.


1 through 10 is totally meaningless because as you pointed out, the measure is subjective. Who you may consider a 3, may be a 10 to someone else and viceversa. There is no precision when the result varies significantly depending on who is making the measurement.




http://laddertheory.com/


Very "impressive" reading. I suggest you do a little research into Helen Fisher's work.




My grading of people...is how they make me feel about myself.



^^^^^ The real "ladder". One that has little to do with looks and even less with fame and fortune.





I was just outside cleaning my gutters.....standing at the bottom of my ladder thinking how nice it would be to be looking up at some hot guy on the top rung.


Hold on to the ladder while I get on the top rung and get my mind in the gutter ;-)... once clean, we can check out how much dirt there was in there ;-)

Now that's a good ladder! (I like your gutters too) ;-)




Ask people who are divorced or others who have gone through a bad break-up if personality is forever.


It is forever but, the majority of people get married before they truly know each other. You don't get to know someone when everything is going great, you get to really know someone when things are difficult.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 238
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Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 4/30/2016 4:54:57 PM

Another clear fallacy. If you were just recognizing the differences between people you wouldn't be grading them from 1 to 10. Is green a 5 and blue a 7 ? ... no, they are just green and blue.

It's recognizing the difference between people's Attraction levels. Why wouldn't many folks be grading it on a general scale for reference (like 1-10)? And leagues is just simplifying that further by not trying to be exact but broad.

If someone is grading themselves against others, they will always have the undesirable "surprise" of being less than someone else.

There's no surprise, unless they're narcissistic or delusional. It's no surprise the guy who plays Superman is a Much better catch than me and you. I better be somewhat PC and say he's only a better catch than half the guys on POF. Still not fully PC, unless I say he's not any better of a catch than any other guy on POF. ;)

In other words, they are setting themselves up for their self esteem and, often somebody else's self esteem, to take a hit.

So deny reality that some people are better catches than others, because it will go against the PC Police's wishes that everyone gets a trophy? Come on, man. If that takes a self-esteem hit -- one already has a low self-esteem. This is about whether it's true or not (it is) -- not a debate on the best PC guide to raising kids.

1 through 10 is totally meaningless because as you pointed out, the measure is subjective. Who you may consider a 3, may be a 10 to someone else and viceversa. There is no precision when the result varies significantly depending on who is making the measurement.

It's not totally meaningless unless it's totally random. It's a belief as to how good/medium/bad of a catch to others in society -- or to oneself, depending on the context. It doesn't follow random pathways. We'll have big self-esteem hits if living in delusion, thinking everyone's "ranked" the same and it's just random -- because obviously if one Truly believed that, they'd be naturally hitting on a heck of a lot of 9s & 10s and getting shot down a ton if they're an average Joe. Total precision isn't required at all for a roughly-accurate assessment. Nobody's going to know what one's Real attraction level is by society to precision -- but who I think is a 3, isn't in reality going to be a 9 by society.
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 239
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 4/30/2016 5:18:58 PM
Hahaha! Mr. Flman.....you are incorrigible! But....apparently my mind was in gutter earlier today, too. So I guess that makes us both incorrible. If you would like to clean out my gutters.....I will be more than happy to hold the ladder. ;)



Okay......I am seriously going to try to understand this numbering scale.

So let's play a game Mr. Norwegian......on your number scale.....what number would you be? :)
 PassionateSunnyGal
Joined: 7/23/2015
Msg: 240
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 4/30/2016 6:32:50 PM
...
 ThroatLozenge
Joined: 3/2/2016
Msg: 241
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 4/30/2016 9:31:13 PM
Seriously, a 10 can become a 1 once they've opened their mouths, and vice versa.
 Dragracer428
Joined: 1/1/2012
Msg: 242
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 5/1/2016 4:21:36 AM


Seriously, a 10 can become a 1 once they've opened their mouths, and vice versa.


Quoted for truth and both genders are quite capable of this.
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 243
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 5/1/2016 5:50:44 AM
That's a good Q KJ :) I am curious how everyone rates themselves.
I don't find that beauty fades, and mean and nasty usually down to the bone.
How Clooney would a 1 suddenly become a 10 by opening their mouth?
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 244
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 5/1/2016 6:00:22 AM

How Clooney would a 1 suddenly become a 10 by opening their mouth?


What I believe Clooney is referring to is that time when initial opinion/judgement on a person's appearance/attraction is thrown out once other things come into play. As in, when a conversation begins and you find out that hidden behind that first opinion, you hear and/or see things that change that opinion. And as Clooney states, it can happen both ways.

We may not initially be attracted to someone but, when we see things happening in real time in the real world, all of a sudden we are attracted to someone. I've had it happen, both ways, more than enough times to believe this is true. Now, in saying that, it doesn't happen with everyone cause, they believe or think they are always "correct" or "right" with their initial thoughts/opinion/judgement. "There has to be a spark before I take the next step" comes to mind here.
 ThroatLozenge
Joined: 3/2/2016
Msg: 245
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 5/1/2016 6:11:31 AM
What Walts said.

I wasn't referring to oral...
 crook_catcher
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 246
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 5/1/2016 6:31:17 AM

So let's play a game Mr. Norwegian......on your number scale.....what number would you be? :)


Hmm...for someone posting like a carnival barker on the subject it's gotten awfully quiet. ;)
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 247
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 5/1/2016 7:19:03 AM

How Clooney would a 1 suddenly become a 10 by opening their mouth?




What I believe Clooney is referring to is that time when initial opinion/judgement on a person's appearance/attraction is thrown out once other things come into play. .......................................................comes to mind here.


True! ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ I agree from beginning to end.

Visually, a person may appear to be "all that and a box of chocolates". Then you hear them, see them in action and they fall to the ground like dog.......... They stink!

To all of this talk of, "Leagues / Ladders / 1-10 Scale." Maybe for you, (anyone else) but not to me. Maybe it's more a man thing? Maybe it fits into a wealth/poor thing. The upper class, lower class:

hi·er·ar·chy
ˈhī(ə)ˌrärkē/Submit
noun
a system or organization in which people or groups are ranked one above the other according to status or authority.
synonyms: pecking order, order, ranking, chain of command, grading, gradation, ladder, scale, range
"in the corporate hierarchy, Curt is about six levels below the CEO"
the upper echelons of a hierarchical system; those in authority.

Maybe it's more relative to where one lives, where you grew up. I don't know. What I do know is I detest a person who acts superior by virtue of their looks, education, or wealth. I'll be nice to you, you be nice to me. If you have more or less money than me? Pffft.

I have never dated according to some silly nonsense, somebody out there, decided the guidelines for the rest of us to live by.
LOL That's it! My story and I'm sticken' to it!
 Whisky_River
Joined: 12/2/2015
Msg: 248
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 5/1/2016 7:35:54 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^Like I said before.....I like people by how they make me feel.
Good story...Laaaady!!!
Using Jerry Lewis voice...lol.
 crook_catcher
Joined: 1/27/2016
Msg: 249
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 5/1/2016 8:21:15 AM

My story and I'm sticken' to it!


Speaking of stories....I've got one that actually pertains to the rating system of 1 thru 10. :)

Years ago....in my late teens I spent the summer at my uncles working on his construction crew in south Texas, south of Corpus Christi to be exact almost to Padre Island.

Now at that time I had the rebellious teen thing going on and sported a David Cassidy shag haircut...being lean at the time and working in the sun 10-12 hrs a day I got a darn good tan and kinda ripped from the manual labor.

Well there's one thing that's a given at least at that time in south Texas was you drank long neck ice cold Lone Star beer. If younger you went to the beach and drank your lone star beer.

Well I'd managed to buy a 1972 Vega Station wagon to get around in...wood grain on the sides and all. :( but anyway you could drive on the beach and actually cruise up and down it...well I went one Saturday and had the hatch up with my cooler full of Lone Star beer sitting in the back with another case next to it. I passed this group of girls sitting in beach chairs and they were holding up numbered signs like they score Olympic gymnastics with....I drew 8.0 8.0 8.5 8.0 when I went by....I turned around and went back by and pulled a 9.0 plus the 3 8's and pulled in beside them and struck up a conversation. Being the southern gentleman I was..I offered cold beer....which they were appreciative of....as was I as it was pretty much a topless beach...however as the beer supply dwindled so did my numbers apparently..:( I noticed they rated passerby's with obvious supplies of cold beverages 2-3 points higher than non obvious beer toters....so taking the lone star effect into account....I guess I was just an avg Joe with some beer. ;)
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 250
Gorgeous Women over 50
Posted: 5/1/2016 8:36:47 AM
Lol! Loved that story, Mr. Crookcatcher. :D


Having lived my teenage years on the east coast of Florida.....I can definitely relate to that story.
And probably have some of my own with some similarities. ;)
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